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Unread 29 Dec 2008, 05:41   #1
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What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

Sry Im a newb :X
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Unread 29 Dec 2008, 06:13   #2
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by The Planetarion User Agreement
Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
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Unread 29 Dec 2008, 12:51   #3
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

Here's a thread debating it:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194908

hope it helps.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 10:16   #4
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

It's a pile of shit that drove people away from the game.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 13:48   #5
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Round 23 MH announcement
1) Support planets
- "Scan" planets will not be governed by support planet rules in regards to scanning. Attacking and defending will still be governed by support planet rules.*
- Covert op planets will be governed by support planet rules if found to be working for one alliance that they're not tagged with**
- Support planet rules don't involve alliance block action where two or more alliances wave the same galaxy - often this isn't even an indication of co-operation
- Attack support planets are those who put other's needs before their own (e.g. escorting attacks to eta 1, attacking without pods, fake attacks to divert defence in galaxy attacks)******
- Defence support planets are those defending roughly more than the minimum of either 3 times per week or 25% of their defence fleets out of galaxy and alliance. ***
- Planets that are support planets will be closed. If no evidence can be found to link the support planet(s) to the targets, only the support planets themselves will be closed. If there is found to be some level of agreement or organisation, the planet benefiting will be closed as well.****
- Alliances found to have a group of support planets will be warned (under the circumstances of the previous point). If the problem reoccurs, the MHs reserve the right to take action against the alliances in the form of a penalty up to 10% of their score.

If someone is breaking these rules then they will be closed unless the infraction is minor, in which case a warning will be issued.
If we find that the spirit of this rule is being violated, then we will warn the person or people involved and add the offense to this list.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 13:53   #6
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

I wouldn't pay any attention to that, it's all been changed multiple times since. Ultimately the rules as written say you are a support planet if a MH says you are a support planet. It's possibly the stupidest "rule" I have ever seen in any game. It's definitely the most arbitrary.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 15:03   #7
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
It's a pile of shit that drove people away from the game.
basically, the PA TEAM has gone wrong more times then they have gone right when altering things.

If you have the irc logs in combination with a dump from these forums a nice study could be made in 'how to **** up and still be alive as an organisation'
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 16:17   #8
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
It's a pile of shit that drove people away from the game.
It is about the same as having multiple accounts. Alltho if they join your alliance and bring roids to the game and are counted in as actual players willing to sacrifice a bit, why not.

However I think there is a good reason the rule was put in use! Also in competing games, since the methods moved in use over them aswell!
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 19:39   #9
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

It was brought in because in Round 15 eXi seemed to have planets dedicated solely to defending them, which weren't in the tag. They were effectively circumventing the member limit of alliances; which was a little cheap. A lot of players (1up) claimed that these planets were just multis that belonged to eXi but there was no way to prove it because, lets face it, it's not that hard to access them through different IPs. So I guess this is why the admins brought in this "support planet rule". At the time the rule wasn't too bad. Since then, the MH team has completely changed and... well, the current ones justify moronic things with this rule.

I don't think a member limit is necessary. Maybe a limit on how many members actually contribute to score or something, but not a limit on the actual members as it's a pretty pointless restriction.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 20:01   #10
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
It was brought in because in Round 15 eXi seemed to have planets dedicated solely to defending them, which weren't in the tag. They were effectively circumventing the member limit of alliances; which was a little cheap. A lot of players (1up) claimed that these planets were just multis that belonged to eXi but there was no way to prove it because, lets face it, it's not that hard to access them through different IPs. So I guess this is why the admins brought in this "support planet rule". At the time the rule wasn't too bad. Since then, the MH team has completely changed and... well, the current ones justify moronic things with this rule.

I don't think a member limit is necessary. Maybe a limit on how many members actually contribute to score or something, but not a limit on the actual members as it's a pretty pointless restriction.
That bassicaly summed it up. And yes i was the one who brought this rule into play mid way into a round mainly becuase at the time it needed it. But now tbh there are to many meanings to this rule these days which is pointless so may as well remove it.
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Unread 30 Dec 2008, 22:36   #11
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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That bassicaly summed it up. And yes i was the one who brought this rule into play mid way into a round mainly becuase at the time it needed it. But now tbh there are to many meanings to this rule these days which is pointless so may as well remove it.
Way to go admitting your mistake there hotshot.
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Unread 31 Dec 2008, 01:25   #12
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Way to go admitting your mistake there hotshot.
His only mistake was leaving the mh team
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Unread 31 Dec 2008, 02:02   #13
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Way to go admitting your mistake there hotshot.
The only real mistake he made was making the rule seem very vague. There's a limit on how many planets can be in an alliance. These planets were used to get around the limit, which was pretty unfair. I don't necessarily agree with the member limit, but if there's one in place; it should be adhered to.

The planets that were closed in accordance to this rule at the time also seemed pretty dubious; being small, allianceless, planets with fleets consisting almost solely of beetles and vipers which always seemed to be available when people got incomings...
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Unread 31 Dec 2008, 13:44   #14
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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There's a limit on how many planets can be in an alliance.
No, there's a limit on how many planets can be in a tag. People have said some things about you only really being in the alliance if you're in the tag, I think sid said this pre-r17 and I know jester said it to me recently. It's quite easy to be an integral part of an alliance without being in the tag though. With external tools it'd be possible to dc/bc without having a planet intag. It's obviously possible to be responsible for tech for your alliance. All that not having a planet intag means is that you don't have a planet intag.
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Unread 1 Jan 2009, 22:32   #15
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
No, there's a limit on how many planets can be in a tag. People have said some things about you only really being in the alliance if you're in the tag, I think sid said this pre-r17 and I know jester said it to me recently. It's quite easy to be an integral part of an alliance without being in the tag though. With external tools it'd be possible to dc/bc without having a planet intag. It's obviously possible to be responsible for tech for your alliance. All that not having a planet intag means is that you don't have a planet intag.
I consider it this way: Football teams have 11 players on the team, that doesn't mean that there aren't other people that are very important to the club's success or failure. However, just because a person is important to the team doesn't make them part of it. A team of football players may win a game, the club physios may not. They may identify with the club, and do important things, but they aren't players. They're more akin to supporters who urge the team on and form a communal identity with the club.

(Anyone that tries to apply the football metaphor to justify the alliance member limit can FOAD, the support planet rule is akin to saying 'only 10 of the 11 players can actually contribute to the game, if the 11th player tries to help, he's sent off.')
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Unread 1 Jan 2009, 22:45   #16
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
I consider it this way: Football teams have 11 players on the team, that doesn't mean that there aren't other people that are very important to the club's success or failure. However, just because a person is important to the team doesn't make them part of it. A team of football players may win a game, the club physios may not. They may identify with the club, and do important things, but they aren't players. They're more akin to supporters who urge the team on and form a communal identity with the club.

(Anyone that tries to apply the football metaphor to justify the alliance member limit can FOAD, the support planet rule is akin to saying 'only 10 of the 11 players can actually contribute to the game, if the 11th player tries to help, he's sent off.')
Work the offside rule into this metaphor and you'd pwn.
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Unread 2 Jan 2009, 05:35   #17
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
I consider it this way: Football teams have 11 players on the team, that doesn't mean that there aren't other people that are very important to the club's success or failure. However, just because a person is important to the team doesn't make them part of it. A team of football players may win a game, the club physios may not. They may identify with the club, and do important things, but they aren't players. They're more akin to supporters who urge the team on and form a communal identity with the club.

(Anyone that tries to apply the football metaphor to justify the alliance member limit can FOAD, the support planet rule is akin to saying 'only 10 of the 11 players can actually contribute to the game, if the 11th player tries to help, he's sent off.')
Its quite harsh to say support planets are team managers, masseurs, medics or coaches... Even they are listed to team credits usually.
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Unread 2 Jan 2009, 15:21   #18
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

you cannot force people not to like people or not help them in any sort of way.
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Unread 2 Jan 2009, 18:04   #19
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

And you think one player can do 4 others, whom 3 of them only suicide/flak, build weird fleets to do it... for the other to make wins. And defend him/her on weird hours, most likely even by some vnc access. As I cant tell anyone who would care to play actively, just to be someones peon, but guess there are weird people like that out there.

If they would join the alliance tag, contribute for something higher than someones personal gain its fine.

Atleast everyone has the right to recruit to their group of people and there are other groups of people to observe peoples doings, number of players and keep things on somewhat balance. Its just how the game works for the best of most.

There are no way to observe and battle the individual balance in the game tho, except by the MH and admin team, who can set limits and rules for the game, so it stays the most benefical for the majority of players and to keep it fun. Imo everyone has the rights to create and join alliances. Alliance sizes are observed as mentioned above.

Multiple accounts run by yourself or by others gives you benefical/unfair position towards others. As it is hard to counter you on individual level, since u have 4 players versus 1, however, alliance can hardly waste fleets to take out targets (support accounts) with no real roids and weird/hard fleets to kill. And dont wana waste a bunch of ships to take out one muppet.
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Unread 3 Jan 2009, 01:27   #20
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
(Anyone that tries to apply the football metaphor to justify the alliance member limit can FOAD, the support planet rule is akin to saying 'only 10 of the 11 players can actually contribute to the game, if the 11th player tries to help, he's sent off.')
According to your analogy; it's more like telling the manager that he isn't allowed to run onto the pitch and kick the ball. Pretty riddiculous stuff innit.

If we're to continue with this same analogy and see the whole team (all players and management etc) as the alliance, then the team will be equivalent to the tag. Benched players aren't really allowed on the pitch, yet they're members of the team...
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Unread 3 Jan 2009, 01:40   #21
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Ave View Post
And you think one player can do 4 others, whom 3 of them only suicide/flak, build weird fleets to do it... for the other to make wins. And defend him/her on weird hours, most likely even by some vnc access. As I cant tell anyone who would care to play actively, just to be someones peon, but guess there are weird people like that out there.

If they would join the alliance tag, contribute for something higher than someones personal gain its fine.

Atleast everyone has the right to recruit to their group of people and there are other groups of people to observe peoples doings, number of players and keep things on somewhat balance. Its just how the game works for the best of most.

There are no way to observe and battle the individual balance in the game tho, except by the MH and admin team, who can set limits and rules for the game, so it stays the most benefical for the majority of players and to keep it fun. Imo everyone has the rights to create and join alliances. Alliance sizes are observed as mentioned above.

Multiple accounts run by yourself or by others gives you benefical/unfair position towards others. As it is hard to counter you on individual level, since u have 4 players versus 1, however, alliance can hardly waste fleets to take out targets (support accounts) with no real roids and weird/hard fleets to kill. And dont wana waste a bunch of ships to take out one muppet.
can you please english and common logic please?

If I am a hardcore player, and i have 4 friends on my university who are more then happy to every now and then gimp around, is that illegal?

Please answer that question and go back to your own post.
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Unread 3 Jan 2009, 02:49   #22
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

What i would like to know is who decided that the support planet rule will no longer be in force and why? was it because a few planets got closed last round and started up such a fuss nobody can be bothered with it anymore? or is there a more positive aspect which will make the game more enjoyable?

on the alliance limits.... WHY also? how is this going to balance the game? surely it gives an advantage to the top alliances, who is going to join a lower level alliance when they can tag up with a top alliance.

I do believe with the regulations for next round being in a smaller alliance will be shit, being in a big alliance will be shit also if your not in the top 60 score wise of that ally, your whole round of score has contributed **** all to the alliance you have played with, all you have done is given a planet in that alliance an extra defence fleet.
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Unread 3 Jan 2009, 03:30   #23
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
According to your analogy; it's more like telling the manager that he isn't allowed to run onto the pitch and kick the ball. Pretty riddiculous stuff innit.

If we're to continue with this same analogy and see the whole team (all players and management etc) as the alliance, then the team will be equivalent to the tag. Benched players aren't really allowed on the pitch, yet they're members of the team...
Except this isn't a game of football and reasoning from analogy is best left to people who were probably turned away from clown college.
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Unread 3 Jan 2009, 05:28   #24
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post

If we're to continue with this same analogy and see the whole team (all players and management etc) as the alliance, then the team will be equivalent to the tag. Benched players aren't really allowed on the pitch, yet they're members of the team...
The analogy falls apart here, benched players aren't allowed to play at all, whereas support planets can play fine, they just can't do certain things while 'on the pitch' so to speak.

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Originally Posted by V*Messiah View Post
on the alliance limits.... WHY also? how is this going to balance the game? surely it gives an advantage to the top alliances, who is going to join a lower level alliance when they can tag up with a top alliance..
In Ascendancy we had to close recruitment last round because not only were we well above the tag limit, but we still had top100 planets that wanted to join us regardless of whether they'd be able to get into the tag or not. The tag limit isn't really doing what you're implying it's doing...
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Unread 4 Jan 2009, 15:39   #25
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
can you please english and common logic please?

If I am a hardcore player, and i have 4 friends on my university who are more then happy to every now and then gimp around, is that illegal?

Please answer that question and go back to your own post.
No I am talking about players who are motivated to only help you land your attacks, or to keep your roids. They play for you and not for an alliance or higher group of people. They have no own goals. They do not join yours or if any alliance. They are no valid targets for having little to no roids. They are not in any alliance memberlists to be cared about or to be targeted as first priority. They have no other purpouse in game than adding strength to one single player. Probably you cant manage without some help beyond your own gaming ability if u support the idea of "support planets."

They do not add any chalence, since they do not even try to compete with you. They do not add roids to the game, since they focus on building fleet to help their "master." They might encourage to launch some attacks, but in universal level they do not affect to battles either. Also they discourage others to launch attacks. They encourage to cheating, as if one is used to easy regular help and needs it now, its not likely the players without any own motivation are there allways for aid and care to login allways when defence/attacks are needed (weird hours.) They add a few players to the game, but cause nothing but an unbalance between individual players.

There are allready galaxies and alliances to support you. Dont think you need an own army to support even more.
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Unread 4 Jan 2009, 19:39   #26
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

Part (most) of the original idea of support planets was that they were supporting a particular alliance. And can we not have retarded ad hominems introduced please. I'm pretty sure I can find plenty of good players who would support the abolition of the support planet rule or the tag limit itself.
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 12:28   #27
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

LOL!

Last round mh's take the support planet rule UBERSERIOUSLY with closing people that weren't at all support planets, and this round it's not around anymore?

I'd really like to see a log of a meeting of pa-team / support team / mh's just to know who comes up with all that stuff.
I guess it goes something like this:
Appocomaster: everybody added their random suggestions to the bot?
Everyone: yes
Appocomaster: ok then, time to see what next round brings
Appocomaster: !randomstuff
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 12:39   #28
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

Fiery told me a whole 2 planets got closed for being support planets last round.
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 13:03   #29
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Fiery told me a whole 2 planets got closed for being support planets last round.
Then she has problems counting caus I know of atleast 4 people that got closed & deleted by the 'support planet rule'
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 17:22   #30
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Then she has problems counting caus I know of atleast 4 people that got closed & deleted by the 'support planet rule'
Didn't you quit PA?
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 17:29   #31
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

does that mean he cant post on the forums?
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 17:46   #32
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
does that mean he cant post on the forums?
Appearantly it does since every post I make I get the same reply:
"Didn't you quit?" © CBA

If they're really that serious about this forum being only for people that play then they should suggest that only people with a registered planet can post.
However it is much much cooler to post the same reply on every post i make.
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 17:48   #33
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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does that mean he cant post on the forums?
Of course he can, I should have put that post in his recruitment thread. Which I read afterwards and saw CBA asking the same thing. :/
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 18:22   #34
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

The real question (the one I thought Gabriel was posing) is how good your information can be when you're not actively involved in the game.
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 19:08   #35
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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The real question (the one I thought Gabriel was posing) is how good your information can be when you're not actively involved in the game.
You saw through my thinly veiled self effacement to the core of my intellectual being.
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 20:08   #36
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
And can we not have retarded ad hominems introduced please.
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Except this isn't a game of football and reasoning from analogy is best left to people who were probably turned away from clown college.
Quick, another one liner will save the day!
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 21:00   #37
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Quick, another one liner will save the day!
Saying there's something bad about reasoning from analogy is actually a genuine point. Adding an amusing insult onto the end doesn't really detract from it (you tiresome little shit).
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Unread 5 Jan 2009, 23:43   #38
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The real question (the one I thought Gabriel was posing) is how good your information can be when you're not actively involved in the game.
You stated that Fiery told you only 2 people got closed last round under the support planet rule, I replied that she can't count since I can tell you 4 people that got closed last round under the support planet rule.

My information on LAST ROUND is accurate considering I played last round and was one of the (atleast) 4 people closed for being 'a support planet'...
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Unread 6 Jan 2009, 00:14   #39
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
My information on LAST ROUND is accurate considering I played last round
Fair enough.
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Unread 6 Jan 2009, 02:26   #40
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Re: What exactly is the "support planet rule?"

The wonderful support planet rule! Where the EULA stays the same every round, but the interpretation of it changes every few rounds.
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