A Noob Tale

[Fyodor]

I started PA in round 3. My galaxy had a lot of Americans who were also playing their first round. Come to think of it, I don’t think we had 1 player with experience. We realized we needed to speak with each other in real time so wed make chat rooms using AIM. We fought hard, had a lot of fun an were ecstatic when one of us hit 1 million points. We sent out 1 pod at an inactive planet and returned with 1 roid and had a lot of fun doing it. We attacked and were attacked frequently. We deffed in gal and the only thing we new of alliances were that Fury and Legion were evil. We knew for a fact that they were behind all of the incoming on our tiny gal. But the truth of the matter is that we never saw truly heavy incomings.

Since this time all except me has moved on, although I still speak with some of them from time to time.

Fast forward 11 rounds. I’m tired of the game. Tired of the late and awkward hours. Tired of the politics that run the game. I want to be a noob again.

So I made an account when the round started and laid low. I went zik as I realized there was little chance of me holding on to my roids and I could defend against incoming hostiles.

My galaxy had about 6 other active players. We idled and chatted on irc and I kept my head down. We had 13 total planets in gal at that time and the GC tried diligently to get them on irc. He exiled the ones who didn’t respond to his emails but kept anyone who made the slightest effort. After the first 300 ticks we realized that no one else would be joining us on irc. Incomings were not being sufficiently reported to the alliances due to lack activity from all of our gal. One exiled. Then another and so on down the line as the number of hostiles increased.

Now the only irc active player left is me.We have a few guys who are active on the forums and both myself and another player with experience are trying to help them along. A few do defend in gal and we try to make the best of it.

The whole point of this post is this.

With 15 or so players our gal score is about 1.6 million. And our biggest player has 160 roids. 6 of our gal have less than 60 roids, with the rest lingering around 100. We had 40 incoming hostile fleets yesterday. Today we’ve had 16 thus far. Two days ago we were waved by a top 15 alliance. Last night I had 100 roids. I Got 3 fleets inbound on me. Today I was down to 75. Ive had 3 attacks at me thus far. Ive emailed the attackers questioning what the hell they were doing. One replyed back, calling me a noob. Another recalled his fleet and gave me some advice (I wish I could say his coords, as he deserves some props) The other just landed.

My question is what the hell are we doing to our noobs?

The guys on our forums wonder who weve pissed off. I think its better to let them believe there is an enemy to rally around then to tell them the truth. I hope they get some sort of alliance soon. I wonder how long until they exile. And when they do exile, what are their chances?

There is no joy in this game for the noobs. Any rush of adrenaline gotten from a nice roiding is quickly demolished by the jackels waiting in the mist. Most likely the noobs will lose many more roids than they gain.

As for me, im at a loss as how to make the game friendlier to new players. I try to help them in game but I realize now that the root of the problem is the in game dynamics and small player-base. Without some new and innovative ideas there will never be an increase of player base again. Jolt can advertise all they want, if the game isn’t fun to a noobie (my experience thus far is that it is not) they’ll not return.

What do you think? Is it worth it to save the noobs? And if so, how?

[Cannon_Fodder]

Unless someone rich buys PA and makes it free, i dont see the playerbase every truly growing and hence will die. I for one am tired of it already, especially after exiling into a completely inactive gal that like you, had plenty of incs. Now the vultures have found me and within 2 hours i have 6 waves... I think to myself, its only a game, why am i up at 4am and getting stressed for this.... this might be my last round...

[Chaos]

It's easy to blame everything on the evil alliances that ruin the game.

But, in reality Alliances is what keep ppl playing PA.
if PA hadn't had alliances. I would have stopped playing PA back in r3 or r4.
and I also know several of our member only Play PA for HR's sake. they pretty much is bored shitless of PA. But are playing for HR's sake.

and about n00bs getting a raw deal.
well. if they just where active in irc. that's all it takes. being active on irc.
your gal m8s will help you. teach you. and get you into an ally.

I have no sympati for ppl not being active on irc.

if your active on irc. you don't get exiled.
the ppl in the dead end gal's that full of inactive twats. they've either been realy unlucky. and should self exile out of there right away. or they've been realy inactive and gotten exiled to where they belong.

if your not going to play this game activly. then don't play.. you only ruin the round for your gal m8s.

[Neferti]

Being active on IRC doesnt make you immune to bashing, you know.

[Chaos]

We all get roided at one point or another during a round now adays.
being roided isn't the same as being bashed.

If your active. our gal m8s help you learn this game. and you get into an ally.
Why should you be bashed any more than anybody else?

This i a game of skill. if you suck you die.
it has nothing todo with being new or not.
as I've seen many brand new players kicking ass.

the sharks can smell weakness in the water.
and if you look weak. you die.

if you get bashed like hell. there are a few reasons for this.

1. You've pissed someone off.
2. Your ally is at war with someone.
3. Your roidfatt.
4. You or your gal look weak and easy pickings.


if ( $reason == 1) { figure out who you've pissed off, and ask for forgiveness }
elseif ( $reason == 2) { Suck it up, you realy can't do much about it. just send away your ships if without def, and go roid the hostile ally. the faster they loose, the faster you stop getting bashed }
elseif ( $reason == 3 ) { Try to get def, if not able to, just send away your ships. ignore loosing a few roids, and just go get more.}
elseif ( $reason == 4 ) { Exile your self. there realy isn't any other option. }


If you follow this. then you should have an ok round.
and if you consider normal random attacks on your gal as bashing, and whine every time you loose a roid. Then perhaps this game isn't for you.

If your gal sux. exile yer self. no point in hanging around in a dead gal. there are plenty of good gals that would like to have you. Let the inactive cnuts be bunched up in their own dead gals.

[rnd|One]

Sticking with my gal, which has mostly been in the t70's galrank-wise, has in the end amounted to an irc-active galaxy. This is the result of ~50 exiles.

I've placed instructions on the overview, forums and also pamail any newcomers a welcome to reply back. Those that show a pulse and get on irc with provided instructions have stayed, upgraded unpaid to paid, learned to attack and are adventuring into the realm of alliance-life. End result being many of the players, new and old, are enjoying PA more than before.

With a quarter of all galaxies being mouse traps this is not the end result for many newcomers.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

Create wings of all alliances of the game. These alliance wings will be coded in-game and will hold a maximum of 50 members. PA players who are new to the game will be recommended by their galmates to apply for, lets say 1up's wing alliance, Angels', WP's, and so on and so forth.

Wing alliances will be involved with all alliance attacks, defenses, and politics. So a normal alliance can hold 50-60 core members with a wing alliance with ~10-20 members. This way, no matter how much of a noob you are in a wing, the alliance who "mentors" that wing can still provide full protection of you in a situation where noob bashing is evident.

I'm quoting a post that I did on a similar thread, and I totally agree - we should protect our noobs who are the future of this game. Let's give them a chance to enjoy this game like we did when we all started playing.

[Cannon_Fodder]

14 waves on me now...

[rnd|One]

Originally Posted by sniborp

14 waves on me now...

...your posrep says you have a brilliant future!

[wakey]

The overriding problem wouldnt be solved even if the game was free because the problems always existed. The problem is that on the whole this games community is fairly dumb when it comes to playing the game. The communities is full of people with degrees and other acedemic awards so it shouldnt be being ruined by dumb actions but it is. And the problem is its not just the average players whom play dumb, its the command staff from their alliance whom should be shaping the members into good pa players but whom more often than not turn them into people who take no greater pride than bashing some defenceles planet into the ground for 20 roids

For a game where we are rewarded for attacking bigger targets and attacking solo we just see too many people sending kill fleets at small planets where they gain little and see too mnay large incoming teaming up on a small player so that theres multiple landings at the same tick in large numbers. All this is all too often under the guidence or even orders of their alliances command.

What is needed is the the problem needs tackled from the top. We need to have the alliance command push the fact that an easy attack is often not a good attack, they need to push the fact that just because a target is bigger doesnt mean it cant be hit and it needs to reprimand those who consistantly go for easy roids. Its time for the HC's and BC's to stand up and be counted, to pull their head out of the sand and realise all their actions have a consequence. We dont need HC's pulling out the old cliches of "Others do it/have done it" or "its not our fault they quit". These excuses just dont wash, they wouldnt in the realworld and shouldnt in here. You need to take responsability and do something about the detrimental effect you can have on the game, focus on weeding out the bad aspects alliances have on the game and focus on building on the many good things allianced can bring. Perhaps then when they see their command preaching the concept of playing with some honour the average player might start to play fairer and give new players a chance to grow and have fun no matter what galaxy they are in. However if the commands keep denying any responsability towards helping the game grow then the avh player isnt going to change his ways because they see the players they know and respect supporting such cowardly actions

[Kargool]

What is there to be done.

Alot of suggestions about how to make this game more appealing springs to mind.

Making it a free game isnt nesceary the way to go to make it a better enjoyable game.

One of the things that springs to mind to protect smaller galaxies could be to make entire galaxies unhittable if you are in a good galaxy.

We gotta help the new players if not, the memberbase WILL die, whatever good suggestions being put into the game.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Kargool

What is there to be done.

Alot of suggestions about how to make this game more appealing springs to mind.

Making it a free game isnt nesceary the way to go to make it a better enjoyable game.

One of the things that springs to mind to protect smaller galaxies could be to make entire galaxies unhittable if you are in a good galaxy.

We gotta help the new players if not, the memberbase WILL die, whatever good suggestions being put into the game.

tbh I'm not a fan of any kind of hard bash limits , simply because they often act as a justification for hitting small and as such often just move the bashing problem a little higher up the game to players whom are equally ill equiped to deal with the problem. Its all too common to get the reply of "They are in range so its ok" back to the question of "why are you hitting someone so much smaller than you"

[Ferretus]

Have 2 rounds without alliances in order to revive the community spirit.

Arguing that you will quit unless you play with your alliance is bullSh1t as people do not waste half of their days on a game unless they like it. Organised alliances will suffer a drop in the memberbase but the core players will still remain in touch and the alliance will still function when they are brought back a few rounds after. In the meantime though everyone needs to make new friends and the galaxy and cluster needs to be promoted above all else.

Pay to play caused the decline of the game, the alliances took too much control and now by having too much advantage are destroying the game and its playerbase.

[Ferretus]

Originally Posted by Chaos

and about n00bs getting a raw deal.
well. if they just where active in irc. that's all it takes. being active on irc.
your gal m8s will help you. teach you. and get you into an ally.

I have no sympati for ppl not being active on irc.

if your active on irc. you don't get exiled.

If you read the original post, IRC activity has nothing to do with the problem and as players self exile from a gal getting bashed then you have no gal mates to help you. The original poster is not a noob, just someone wanting to enjoy the game. They probably have an alliance so this is a condescending comment that kinda really misses the point of the original post.

Originally Posted by Chaos

if your not going to play this game activly. then don't play.. you only ruin the round for your gal m8s.

That is the key problem. Players are hit to the point where they lose interest, so activity dips slightly. All they need is a morale boost but instead get hit again and again and again, so they leave.

Again this is another example of the attitude of players that are ruining this very game.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

Have 2 rounds without alliances in order to revive the community spirit.

Arguing that you will quit unless you play with your alliance is bullSh1t as people do not waste half of their days on a game unless they like it. Organised alliances will suffer a drop in the memberbase but the core players will still remain in touch and the alliance will still function when they are brought back a few rounds after. In the meantime though everyone needs to make new friends and the galaxy and cluster needs to be promoted above all else.

Pay to play caused the decline of the game, the alliances took too much control and now by having too much advantage are destroying the game and its playerbase.

Alliances themselves are not a bad thing, they actually add alot to the game. The problem with alliances is normally the attitude that they instill in players but thats not an alliance flaw but rather a person flaw.
Lets take F-Crew as an example, is our existance bad for the game? I think you will struggle to find people whom say yes to that. And the reason for this is because we play in a way that has us always keeping an eye on the wider effect of our actions.

- We drill it into our players that they shouldnt be stooping down to hit below their value
- We encourage them to go in to get good gains for attacks, not to inflict the most losses for the target
- Our attacks are always on significantly large galaxies (alot of you whom are in top 20 galaxies will probally have had a F-Crew Roid Run hit you)
- We try to make sure that any smallish planet isnt even listed as part of an attack to give them time to grow
-We activly encourage our players to play WITH their galaxy not pull against then like many people seem to do.
- We encourage our members to push for keeping new players in their galaxy, atleast until a good amount of time has been given to respond

So its fairly obvious its not the alliances themselves that need removed, its just the players who need reeducated and its why I am encouraging all alliance commands to step upto the plate and make a stand to allow the game to grow. They dont have to go the whole way to F-crews level just a tiny bit more awareness from every alliances command and this attitude being promoted to the members would see see noticable improvement.


And anyway what good would removing alliances do, alliances used to exist outside the game and still could. If anything you would potentially make the big stronger by removing the membership cap and by making the external tools more vital again. Alliances being in game allow for some control to be applied and give even the least techy alliances some tools to work with (even if they arent great) which helps narrow the gap a bit

[paolo]

Maybe we should reconsider the cap on 100 alliance players. I think a medium skilled alliance would want to take on more members to create a fighting chance against the top alliances.

Since we're looking at a 100 player cap, a lot of the top alliance have closed recruitment or have 1 or 2 spaces for alliance hoppers. If a great player want to join a top alliance, most of the time a lesser player in that alliance gets kicked out to make room for him... That kicked player then decides it isn't worth it to play anymore and decides to quit.

I know almost no alliance has about 90 members anymore, but last rounds with the SiN ND merge a lot of players left after being kicked out of their alliance.

[Orion Treet]

Ah, don't we all long back to the days of innosence I remember as well when the only thing I knew about Legion and Fury was that they were Gods, you didn't want to attack them, and on top of that they were all mean and evil players who were probebly just acting true in channel having no real fun. The game has changed so much from then, if he had a playerbase even slightly compareble to the playerbase back then (100x as many as we have) it would be different. But the universe is so small now and it's hard for a gal not to get picked as a target. The largest problem with noobs is that most people are willing to train them but they won't come on IRC to be tought.

[Neferti]

Members were kicked for the SiN ND merge, yes, but they would have been kicked anyway. None of them had logged in, come on IRC, sent def or attack for over a week, and had not given any reason or warning that they would be away. A full week's warning was also given, for members to turn their activity levels around, or give good reasons for inactivity.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by paolo

Maybe we should reconsider the cap on 100 alliance players. I think a medium skilled alliance would want to take on more members to create a fighting chance against the top alliances.

Since we're looking at a 100 player cap, a lot of the top alliance have closed recruitment or have 1 or 2 spaces for alliance hoppers. If a great player want to join a top alliance, most of the time a lesser player in that alliance gets kicked out to make room for him... That kicked player then decides it isn't worth it to play anymore and decides to quit.

I know almost no alliance has about 90 members anymore, but last rounds with the SiN ND merge a lot of players left after being kicked out of their alliance.

Its a decent though, but I dont know that it will resolve the issue because alot of the alliances now a day are happier running with less players as the average score of each alliance is being counted more and more when people look at the quality of the allliance.

Ive come up with an idea that may help the issue, though it will never be able to be implemented.

-Before the round starts People apply to be HC of an alliance.
-The PA team choses 15 of the applications.
-People sign up and at tick 1, everyone is shuffled into a random alliance till each alliance has the same amount of people
-as new players sign up, they are shuffled evenly into an alliance
-If you quit your alliance you are not allowed to join another
-If HC kicks a member, that member still counts in the alliance total, so if they kick a member, that member will not be replaced


I know this is far fetched, but

1) Itll give noobs more of a chance in a good alliance
2) it will balance out the alliances opening up fair chances for everyone and getting rid of the super powers
3) itll bring the community closer together
4) it can be tested in a speed game

-

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Orion Treet

The largest problem with noobs is that most people are willing to train them but they won't come on IRC to be tought.

I think it took me 2 rounds before I realised the full power of IRC... But i was computer illiterate at the time.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by paolo

Maybe we should reconsider the cap on 100 alliance players. I think a medium skilled alliance would want to take on more members to create a fighting chance against the top alliances.

Since we're looking at a 100 player cap, a lot of the top alliance have closed recruitment or have 1 or 2 spaces for alliance hoppers. If a great player want to join a top alliance, most of the time a lesser player in that alliance gets kicked out to make room for him... That kicked player then decides it isn't worth it to play anymore and decides to quit.

I know almost no alliance has about 90 members anymore, but last rounds with the SiN ND merge a lot of players left after being kicked out of their alliance.

I think the limit has actually improved the game for the lesser players though. The fact that the top alliances cant recruit freely means that the quality players movement up the alliance ladder is slower which is actually good for the game as a whole. You see no matter how open the top alliances are they will never be that open to taking the really green players other alliances do. Now these green players need surrounded by quality to bring them through quickly and the limit does allow for a certain level of quality to be maintained in these alliances who can help train these others. The higher the overall quality of alliances the better equiped all alliances are to bring new players into the game

[barney]

agree with wakey 100% about the alliance limit improving the game for newer players.

and fyodor's idea, will no doubt be dismissed by people immediately, however i beleive it has some merit, and would definately be fun, at least for a speedgame or 2 between rounds, imo this would serve to introduce newer players to older players, allow people to mingle and make more contacts, to introduce some more non alliance centered community to the game. I really beleive this should be the basis for a speedgame, probarbly not the basis for a full round but who knows, i guess that depends on how it works out .

would be great fun to face down some current allym8's in a speedgame.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

Arguing that you will quit unless you play with your alliance is bullSh1t as people do not waste half of their days on a game unless they like it.

I wouldn't ever play again if NoS didn't play, so that proves you wrong. I quit after last round because of not having time anymore, but I wouldn't ever dream about playing if NoS didn't play. The game isn't fun anymore, but the alliance is. So what you are saying is bullshit.

Originally Posted by Ferretus

Again this is another example of the attitude of players that are ruining this very game.

So let's disband all the "bad" and "evil" alliances with the wrong attitude then... Then you'll see the meaning of the word 'dead'. For me the alliance comes before galaxy and noob-training, but I'm trying to do both as long as it doesn't crash. Don't see what's wrong in that. Read my other post in the other thread again and you'll get it.

[Smudge]

Maybe if the Quests idea is bought back to life then there could be a quest specific for IRC?

[Orion Treet]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Its a decent though, but I dont know that it will resolve the issue because alot of the alliances now a day are happier running with less players as the average score of each alliance is being counted more and more when people look at the quality of the allliance.

Ive come up with an idea that may help the issue, though it will never be able to be implemented.

-Before the round starts People apply to be HC of an alliance.
-The PA team choses 15 of the applications.
-People sign up and at tick 1, everyone is shuffled into a random alliance till each alliance has the same amount of people
-as new players sign up, they are shuffled evenly into an alliance
-If you quit your alliance you are not allowed to join another
-If HC kicks a member, that member still counts in the alliance total, so if they kick a member, that member will not be replaced


I know this is far fetched, but

1) Itll give noobs more of a chance in a good alliance
2) it will balance out the alliances opening up fair chances for everyone and getting rid of the super powers
3) itll bring the community closer together
4) it can be tested in a speed game

-

I'd seriously concider quiting PA if this happened tbh

[Cannon_Fodder]

the game isnt fun or original anymore.

id rather be up till 4am playing bf2.

[Agerus]

Fyodor, your post was terrific. I got lucky, I landed in an active top gal. But I can imagine how pointless the game is in the low ranks. I hope some admin listens to you carefully.

14 waves is just insanse.

[ChubbyChecker]

What needs work is the system of exile and self exile. There is no problem with the way alliances work atm.

[paolo]

I thought the quests where supposed to return for round 14?

[berten]

tbh, i just tought of a way to get rid of bashing
cap limit = (the % of score the target planet is to you) / 100 * the current max cap of 25%
this means if planet = 20 and you = 100 --> 0.2 * 25% = 5% u can cap if u get max cap

dno if this is actually understandable

[Ardy]

Ok, how about a system of government defence?

Let's say theres one Uber-planet - 1:1:1. This planet has access to all ships + a bunch more which are unbuildable and unstealable by all except him. This planet is also fully automated, not using resources, but creating as many units as it "needs".

Now, if a small planet, not in an ally, gets bashed (ie, the incoming on one tick is say 200% of whatever he has in total) this government planet will calc and send an amount of defence to even out the fight. Note. NOT to slaughter the attacker, but just to even it out. A well formed fleet could still get through, but a mindless bashing fleet would take huge losses.

This would only help players not in an alliance ingame. So alliance warfare is pretty much undamaged. And it should stop people getting mindlessly bashed.

And yes, i realise it needs a lot of work, but as a basic idea (stolen in its entiriy from a different game ) it's certainly worth looking at?

[Agerus]

Originally Posted by berten

tbh, i just tought of a way to get rid of bashing
cap limit = (the % of score the target planet is to you) / 100 * the current max cap of 25%
this means if planet = 20 and you = 100 --> 0.2 * 25% = 5% u can cap if u get max cap

dno if this is actually understandable

good idea, but we do have a restriction which is 40% value... and it doesnt seem to work.

[Cannon_Fodder]

well it may work, because without it, things could be worse.
and ardy, thats a thing from bushtarion isnt it?

All these things might help, but its not going to solve the problem that is in the mentality of players :/

aka you're all ****ed unless you are in a top20 alliance.


edit: oh i now have like 200 roids, and the same noobs from last night have already sent fleets at me tonight... joy.

[Jonas]

we need more f-crews

nice post \o/ oh to be a noob!! donating 2000 thieves to the galaxy fleet back in r2, only to notice less than 50 were to defend my planet :P

I do have faith in PA tho, and I see many newcomers aswell as returning players.

edit: even in a summer round

[Orion Treet]

Originally Posted by Ardy

Ok, how about a system of government defence?

Let's say theres one Uber-planet - 1:1:1. This planet has access to all ships + a bunch more which are unbuildable and unstealable by all except him. This planet is also fully automated, not using resources, but creating as many units as it "needs".

Now, if a small planet, not in an ally, gets bashed (ie, the incoming on one tick is say 200% of whatever he has in total) this government planet will calc and send an amount of defence to even out the fight. Note. NOT to slaughter the attacker, but just to even it out. A well formed fleet could still get through, but a mindless bashing fleet would take huge losses.

This would only help players not in an alliance ingame. So alliance warfare is pretty much undamaged. And it should stop people getting mindlessly bashed.

And yes, i realise it needs a lot of work, but as a basic idea (stolen in its entiriy from a different game ) it's certainly worth looking at?

You can't even out a fight, you either cap or you don't, he gets def to stop you or he doesn't, and everytime having just half your fleet killed doesn't count

Edit: Nevermind, didn't read it thuroughly enough the first time, on second thought seems a good idea, but this shouldn't work with 2 people without alliance attacking eachother, or allianceless attacking alliance member, just alliance people attacking non alliance people and would be great actually

[Hazzy]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

So im getting more incs right now. I asked him what he is doing, he says :

"You felt like a nice target.
I have 19k incs in a ****loads of waves, so I'll need your roids when their done anyways. "

ive about 70 roids.... hes got 583....

Sorry but that made me laugh, he must be the biggest idiot this round. Plenty of planets with alot more roids in the universe he can roid.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Hazzy

Sorry but that made me laugh, he must be the biggest idiot this round. Plenty of planets with alot more roids in the universe he can roid.

I deleted the post as I realised his roid count is searchable

[Hazzy]

He deserves to get hes planet here when you are so stupid.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by sniborp

All these things might help, but its not going to solve the problem that is in the mentality of players :/

aka you're all ****ed unless you are in a top20 alliance.

And what's wrong with that mentality?
I mean.. Anybody can get into an top20 ally.
if you don't want todo that. then don't whine when you get ****ed

Alliances is part of the game. accept it.
Either create one, join one. or just don't play.

Duc, sequere, aut de via decede
(Lead, follow, or get out of the way)

[Rocko]

2 ideas
1) ATM
""A planet with it's "Value" section in orange is too small for you to attack, as it's lower than 40% of your value""
Change this slightly. Initially i thought,. make it 60% rarther then 40%, but people XP whoring keep low values anyway.
How about, the bigger you get, the large that % comes. Whether this is done in porportion with the game, or to set limits i don't know. But this would force larger planets, to attack other larger planets.

2) Force people to join an alliance when they sign up. This would require some hard work,... but it could work thus.
When you join up,.. in those first 72 ticks, you can either apply and join (if they accept you) a normal alliance out there, OR your joined into a Newbie training alliance (needs a better name ). Obviously people should be given the option to go solo, but people would be automatically joined into this in-game alliance, then can choose to go solo afterwards.
The membership for this alliance should be changing quite frequently,...
Those who help and participate in attacks / Deffence, get sent off to other alliance (bellow top 20? top 15?).
The HC and BC of this type of alliance would have to be those who think of the community more then winning the game, and large enough to monitor this amount of people (also if somoone left, they could be replaced without their leaving being an effect on the alliance).
When people have left this alliance, and have joined another alliance (the 72 tick of not being in an alliance can be scrapped for those comming out of the training acedemy), then they are free to do as they want.

[barney]

Originally Posted by Rocko

2 ideas
1) ATM
""A planet with it's "Value" section in orange is too small for you to attack, as it's lower than 40% of your value""
Change this slightly. Initially i thought,. make it 60% rarther then 40%, but people XP whoring keep low values anyway.
How about, the bigger you get, the large that % comes. Whether this is done in porportion with the game, or to set limits i don't know. But this would force larger planets, to attack other larger planets.

2) Force people to join an alliance when they sign up. This would require some hard work,... but it could work thus.
When you join up,.. in those first 72 ticks, you can either apply and join (if they accept you) a normal alliance out there, OR your joined into a Newbie training alliance (needs a better name ). Obviously people should be given the option to go solo, but people would be automatically joined into this in-game alliance, then can choose to go solo afterwards.
The membership for this alliance should be changing quite frequently,...
Those who help and participate in attacks / Deffence, get sent off to other alliance (bellow top 20? top 15?).
The HC and BC of this type of alliance would have to be those who think of the community more then winning the game, and large enough to monitor this amount of people (also if somoone left, they could be replaced without their leaving being an effect on the alliance).
When people have left this alliance, and have joined another alliance (the 72 tick of not being in an alliance can be scrapped for those comming out of the training acedemy), then they are free to do as they want.

the first idea, im not sure on the implacations of dynamic bash limits, but im sure someone with a beter imagination will point them out for me :P

however the second idea whilst needs refining i beleive has merit, altho i was under the impression that advanced quests were supposed to be a kinda automated training alliance, maybe the IRC alliance aspects could be incorporated into advanced quests somehow, yet experianced players who are more interested in fighting between alliances can choose to toggle them off in preferances. maybe another coubd be to have a seperate forum here (that nobody would ever really read) where they have to post an introduction to fulfil a quest, this would bring people to forums and maybe they would find them more accessable.

its a little garbled, but it basically boils down to the idea of adfvanced quests (i thought these had been accepted for r14 ???) being adapted to not only teach players to play the game but to bring them into the community as well.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Chaos

And what's wrong with that mentality?
I mean.. Anybody can get into an top20 ally.
if you don't want todo that. then don't whine when you get ****ed

Alliances is part of the game. accept it.
Either create one, join one. or just don't play.

Duc, sequere, aut de via decede
(Lead, follow, or get out of the way)

Your missing his point, probally partly his own fault as his summary wasnt very good but still your missing the point.

There IS a problem with players mentality on the whole, a problem which really need us the players to change, and its especially down to people like you Chaos who as an alliance HC have the ability to set players mindsets. They need to get over this view that the idea of the game is to get roids for no ship losses whatsoever because that simply encourages kill fleets being sent to the small for very little gain for the attacker. Instead we need to be pushing the fact that all planets have a weakness that can be exploited and that makes attacking the bigger players possible and the scoring system makes doing so more profitable than bashing the small. The more people whom can be converted to this way of thinking the more chance the small have to establish themselves and can fight it out with players more in their range.

To highlight my point I was talking to a couple of rock members whom I know. Now Rock arent doing as well as they are used to and theres a general view they cant compete with anyone. This i'm led to believe has led them to choose smallish targets, targets that are below their level and 'easy' to roid. However this means when they attack they are attacking fairly green players whom are trying to establish themselves, not if the general mentality in Rock was more positive they could easierly be attacking some well scoring galaxies and coming away with only a handful of losses alot of roids, and bag fulls of xp which would help propell them in the right direction. Being smaller is an asset to a playerand theres no need to be thinking "i cant take anyone whos not smaller tahn me on"

[ChubbyChecker]

I don't think the in-game rules about xp, roid capping, bash limits and so on need to be changed. They're fine as they are and give more than ample reward to people who choose to go for people bigger than them. As wakey said it's the attitude of certain people that needs to change.

Some of you seem to be blaming it on alliances though. They are not to blame. If anything alliances are helping to reduce bashing. After all, the people who pick the targets for the alliances generally tend to know what they're doing and know there's little gain in bashing.

Take my alliance for example, I've been with them for 3 nights and in that time we've attacked 2 top 10 galaxies and 1 top 5 alliance. I assume that our targets for the rest of the round will be of a similar calibre.

So who is to blame? Those noobs who don't know any better. Improving the exile / self exile system in the game will help to combat this problem seeing as the score of galaxies will be more evenly spread and those who do bash will get advice not to do it from their galaxy mates. Not because their galaxy mates think it's immoral or whatever, simply because they know that the game is designed in such a way that bashing is not beneficial.

[Chaos]

Well. I can only speak for HR. but we don't bash n00bies. as it's not proffiable.
with the Honor point system on XP calc. it's more profitable to roid bigger target.
But there is ofc a limit on how big target you can take there also.

I've noticed some of the top5 allies have a tendency to send wave apon wave on a gal.
I guess it does improve chances of getting through. but personaly. over 3-4 waves is overkill and a bit waste. would gain more from setting up more targets pr night instead. and it only makes the ppl in that gal depressed.

Hell. Alliance HC's do more to making PA a nicer and more enjoyable game to play than (perhaps) Anybody else. and I just get ticket off when ppl start blaming alliances for stuff.

If we didn't have alliances. do you realy think ppl would bash more or less ?

[ChubbyChecker]

Top 5 alliances tend to attack top galaxies (they wouldn't be a top alliance for long otherwise) so the fact that they send many waves on an attack is not a problem imo.

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Rocko

2 ideas
1) ATM
""A planet with it's "Value" section in orange is too small for you to attack, as it's lower than 40% of your value""
Change this slightly. Initially i thought,. make it 60% rarther then 40%, but people XP whoring keep low values anyway.
How about, the bigger you get, the large that % comes. Whether this is done in porportion with the game, or to set limits i don't know. But this would force larger planets, to attack other larger planets.

2) Force people to join an alliance when they sign up. This would require some hard work,... but it could work thus.
When you join up,.. in those first 72 ticks, you can either apply and join (if they accept you) a normal alliance out there, OR your joined into a Newbie training alliance (needs a better name ). Obviously people should be given the option to go solo, but people would be automatically joined into this in-game alliance, then can choose to go solo afterwards.
The membership for this alliance should be changing quite frequently,...
Those who help and participate in attacks / Deffence, get sent off to other alliance (bellow top 20? top 15?).
The HC and BC of this type of alliance would have to be those who think of the community more then winning the game, and large enough to monitor this amount of people (also if somoone left, they could be replaced without their leaving being an effect on the alliance).
When people have left this alliance, and have joined another alliance (the 72 tick of not being in an alliance can be scrapped for those comming out of the training acedemy), then they are free to do as they want.

1) I would rather see the bash limit removed completly. Yes I know it sounds strange coming from me but it does promote a certain level of bashing and removes free will of the players. If a small player below your bash limit hits you, the bigger player should be able to choose if he retals. Now before you all start shouting but your allowing bashing theres a twist. It shouldnt be a case of stopping free will but if you choose to act on your right to counter there should be consequences for you. These consequences would be lost score, lost score gained through an extension of the XP system to include negative xp. So rather than bravery going 0-20, you would have it -20 ro 20. The Zero point would be set at something like 10 or 20% below your score and then their would be sliding scale down for the smaller the planet was and then a sliding scale up for the larger the planet was. It would also make maxing out xp alot harder for players as the 20% mark would have to be shifted up to account for the Zero point being higher but this would make it harder to xp horde and make gaining xp more of a skill.

The one problem I have with my system is what happens if someone bashes wiithout pods, ok they get no roids so get no gains but they arent 'punished' for bashing them into the ground either. You could i suppose work on the view that when its a negative xp situation you automatically lose xp for the max roid cap no matter how many you steal, or have it so that no matter what the cap percentage was upto the 10% mark you would lose xp for 10% of the roids BUT to lose above 10% you would have to be stealing over 10% Anyway I'm sure theres people here whom are better with forumulas than i am and can think of something.

You could also to help these people being bashed have the defence salvage connected to the bravery factor of the attacker. Zero or above would give you the current salvage levels but the lower the bravery factor got the more of the defence salvage was given to you. Say upto around 50%

2) I cant say i'd like to be the person responsable for handling these alliances as a truely stepping stone, short term alliance would just be a pain. To train players you need a hiracy of skill and experiance, ist this that helps you train alot of players effectivly. Now you can afford to lose some of your better members along the way but when your losing them all your relaying on a few people running the alliance to do the training all on their own. I certainly dont beleive such an alliance would be that great a place for people to learn in because all the members would basically be at the same level

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Chaos

And what's wrong with that mentality?
I mean.. Anybody can get into an top20 ally.
if you don't want todo that. then don't whine when you get ****ed

Alliances is part of the game. accept it.
Either create one, join one. or just don't play.

Duc, sequere, aut de via decede
(Lead, follow, or get out of the way)

Im in a top5 alliance thank you, but in an inactive gal, my incs dont get reported, and the alliance isnt going to waste fleets deffing me against 10 waves a day for 50 roids.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by berten

tbh, i just tought of a way to get rid of bashing
cap limit = (the % of score the target planet is to you) / 100 * the current max cap of 25%
this means if planet = 20 and you = 100 --> 0.2 * 25% = 5% u can cap if u get max cap

A Variable roid cap formula was how the problem of n00b bashing back in R1 through R9.5 was "addressed" - the idea was that people wouldnt attack small players if they only got a handful of roids and thus pick better targets.

The problem is, however, that far too many 'large' players would continue to hit these small planets, as they were guarenteed to get those roids, even if they were few, and thus it was still beneficial to attack them. Furthermore, There was no value comparison restriction, so a *really* large player could send a certain sized fleet, and attack anyone. The effect was that the small player's fleet would get totally and utterly eliminated, then the roids became free for that and following waves. So other people, knowing that this player isnt going to get defence, and had their fleet killed, and thus they were certain to get free roids - and this obviously didnt help the situation.

The value system is good, imo. However, someone (somewhere in this thread) suggested making the bash limits based on ranks and their relation to the universe average. This idea has potential, though it means that XP wh0res and conventional high valued players would be able to attack eachother again which imo isnt the best idea. Thus, if the system was based on ranks by value and not score then i'd like to see how that will help.

In essense, it would mean that the lower your rank, the lower the minimum value of the target you are able to attack would be as a proportion to you own value.

In english, that means, say you universal rank (by Value) is 1800 of 2000. Instead of your hardcoded value limit of 40%, it might be only 20% of your value (which would permit you to attack virtually everyone below you). However, if you were in the top 100, the hardcoded limit might be 100% - ie, you can only attack people the same size as you, or larger. Normally, that would happen anyway, but a sliding scale would help.

Thoughts?

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by sniborp

Im in a top5 alliance thank you, but in an inactive gal, my incs dont get reported, and the alliance isnt going to waste fleets deffing me against 10 waves a day for 50 roids.

Then you exile your self. you'd be dumb not to.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker

Top 5 alliances tend to attack top galaxies (they wouldn't be a top alliance for long otherwise) so the fact that they send many waves on an attack is not a problem imo.

Lol. there are 175 galaxies in the universe. are you going to clain the top100 is "top galaxies" ?

as I've seen top5 alliances attack with 10 waves on a gal ranked about 70-80(for the record, not my gal ) for no political reason.

it's a waste. as several waves will land. and they will hafto share the few roids that are there.

They would gain more from hitting several gals with fewer waves. since most the defence is sent from alliances. if coordinated correctly, it shouldn't reduse the amounts of fleets that land. but it will increase the amount of roids they gain.

and you have less ppl that give up and quit..

it's a win win situation. but sometimes greed and lack of skill makes ppl use the easy way for a few roids. wave ppl to death.