Just brainstorming I guess

[pig]

Basically as a kid I suffered from eczema quite mildy, the eczema appeared on my left arm, ankle, neck and quite weirdly my eyelids. It was mild, wasnt very noticeable but I certainly noticed it. There isnt much you can do for eczma, but the eczema on my ankle had become extremly bad at about the age of 11.

Nothing was working medical wise and the skin was very very rawr. At the age of 11 I went to a chinese herbal medicine place. After about 12 weeks of drinking stupid tea and taking some weird tablets it went. I dont think it was cheap, but still it went (it may have been a placebo I have no idea but it went)

My eczema as a kid flamed up in winter when it was cold, wet etc. In the summer it practically went. As I said before it wasnt noticeable and it wasnt bad, just it was irritating etc.

Anyway about two years ago I got into a fight with someone (when I say someone, about 3 people tried to mug me in Birmingham.) I got hit etc, but fought back in the end people saw what was going on and came to help. At this point they jumped in there car. In stupidity and anger I punched there car window which was half open and smashed it, i did a left then right jab into it and I cut my fingers on my left and right hand, my left hand was considerably worse as that was the one that did the main damage.

It healed but there were a sign or two my knuckles and fingers became scraped. Anyway the past two months or so my hands have become worse and worse. Im not sure what it is, but my skin isnt the best, when it gets wet i guess like most skin it becomes less firm and easier to chap.

I think its the cold etc, but my hands are quite painful at the moment. As I type I have no real pain, but in the morning after a shower and for an hour or so they do hurt. I keep looking at them thinking they are disgusting, people must be repulsed seeing a few cuts on my hands etc and chapped/raw skin etc.

Im not sure wether its eczema because it isnt like the ecezema I used to have, however it certainly does hurt.

Im going to go see the doctor on monday I think (my step mum is a doctor but she said she cant really advise me until she sees it) She told me for now to get something called Eucerin, which does kinda help but she said its non prescription and will really stop the pain and partially heal my skin.

So I was wondering GD if you have ever had something like what I have (it will go, but atm its disgusting and in my head I keep thinking what people think about it, I wear my gloves quite alot and in general hide my hands.

Any suggestions other than go to the doctor? Know any remedies or have you had anything similar ever happen to you? Thanks in advace.

[midge5]

I used to have really bad eczema but by using certain washing powders my mother cleared up my brothers and mine. Originaly she used something called Q but that got discontinued so after another falre up we found that if you use comfort which is half watered down and then the tesco value non biological tablets it keeps it completely under control.

My father has something similar with his hands though despite this and he uses e45(I think) and loads of plasters to keep it covered up.

[1-X]

can you sing and detect?

[Ebany]

When I got bad eczema I had to go back to the doctors about 4 times to get progressively stronger steroids to sort it out, finally ending up with a big tube of the strongest one they could give me, so it would last (I dont get it that bad, but I didnt want to have to pay out for a prescription every time). This eventually past its best and I went back to (a different) doctor recently as I had another patch or two and she just told me to get some (I think) H45, which is E45 but with hydrocortizone which you can get over the counter, and it seems to be doing OK. She did give me a prescription incase I needed something stronger though.

Basically, as excema creams are steroids they try to keep the dose as low as possible, so you have to keep going back if one doesnt work. Its a bugger with prescription fees.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

dont worry, chicks dig scars.

[Nodrog]

Its been like that for 2 years and youve never had it checked out? I dont understand why people dont go to the doctor immediately when they think something is wrong with them. I tend to go whenever something is even minorly annoying, from rashes to cuts taking too long to heal.

Youre being forced to pay for health care whether you use it or not, so you might as well get your money's worth.

[pablissimo]

My mum gets it and has some steroid cream or other for it, Betnovate or something. Only issue with using steroids on your skin was, I thought, that it thinned the skin and made it more likely something else'd crop up later on. Hers was related to a metal allergy though, you might be worthwhile booking yourself in for an allergy test; they'll twat a bunch of samples of things people are commonly allergic to on your back and wait for a bit before seeing which, if any, reacted.

But yeah I don't know why you don't just go the quack, at the very least if he can't prescribe something you'll get yourself a referral to a dermatologist.

[MasterAir]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Its been like that for 2 years and youve never had it checked out? I dont understand why people dont go to the doctor immediately when they think something is wrong with them. I tend to go whenever something is even minorly annoying, from rashes to cuts taking too long to heal.

Youre being forced to pay for health care whether you use it or not, so you might as well get your money's worth.

While I understand that if you've had a long term problem you should seek medical advice do you honestly think that going to the doctors for minor inconveniences is a good idea.

With regards to your point about paying for health care anyway, do you have a better suggestion? The only alternative I know of basically comes down to "health care is a privilige that is only available to the rich." I know that is taking that to an extreme, but I wholly agree with the NHS. I know it could be improved but in principle it works.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by MasterAir

While I understand that if you've had a long term problem you should seek medical advice do you honestly think that going to the doctors for minor inconveniences is a good idea.

Yeah, definitely. Theres an open surgery in the morning normally so you dont have to bother making an appointment, you can just drop in. Since it involves getting up at 7am I dont do it too often, but I went a few months ago about a cut that didnt seem to have healed properly and went black (nothing wrong with it apparently), and a very irritating rash I had on my leg (I was told that this was an actual infection, and it would have got worse if I had left it). Better safe than sorry innit.

This probably isnt the right thread for arguing about socialised health care though :o

[Tomkat]

I agree with nod (we can keep it on track without discussing the merits/drawbacks of making healthcare public). If I'm ill, I'll leave it for 3-4 days and then go to the doctor.

It's something I never did in Jersey, as it's all privatised so you need to pay about £20 just for a minor ailment, but over here you might as well.

I've been twice to my doctors now and I only moved into this place in October.

[Ste]

haven't been to the doctors since I was about 9.

It annoys me when people go for stupid little things and the doctor simply says "rest", "take some ibuprofin" or "come back in a few days if you're still feeling bad."
I COULD GIVE THAT DAMN ADVICE.

[berzerker]

I had really bad eczema as a child but it's mostly cleared up now. My hands and face go really raw when it's cold and when I use perfumed soaps and shaving products. When it gets bad I use Fucibet cream which clears it up pretty quickly but I can only get it on prescription.

[Demon Dave]

I've got a strange hard lump in my left ear lobe, had it for about 6 months, i should probably see the doctor about it, if only to see what the **** it is

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Ste

haven't been to the doctors since I was about 9.

It annoys me when people go for stupid little things and the doctor simply says "rest", "take some ibuprofin" or "come back in a few days if you're still feeling bad."
I COULD GIVE THAT DAMN ADVICE.

They've been told off recently for giving out antibiotics etc when they aren't really needed (ie: the body could heal on its own without them, but it'd take over a week or so). So they have to give you some advice usually, then tell you to come back.

Mine are quite good - they say "well have some ibuprofen etc" but they give me a prescription as well. The prescription is kind of an advance order thing though - I can't use it until the date they specify.

[Ste]

actually, I mean I'm annoyed that people go to the doctors for little things. Not that I'm annoyed with the doctors themselves...
Should have made that clearer...

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Ste

actually, I mean I'm annoyed that people go to the doctors for little things.

Many things that have the potiential to severely reduce QOL, or even kill you, start out as little things. It's a few steps away from full blown hypocondria, but going when there might be something wrong is a lot better than not going when there is something wrong.

[A2]

It usually takes about a week to get an appointment here (all the old people have them block booked for weeks in advance regardless of if there's anything wrong with them) There are "emergency" appointments available on the day, but only by phone, so you can't drop in and avoid the engaged tone (I live less than 100 metres from the surgery) or you can turn up after 9:30 and spend at bare minimum 3 hours sat in the waiting room while under-10's who've sneezed in the last 3 days and old people are seen.

I plan on having an infection in November - I probably should book now.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Welcome to the results of the "Noone should wait more than x days for an appointment" schtick the government went on.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

going when there might be something wrong is a lot better than not going when there is something wrong.

The problem seems to be that it's difficult to judge what might be a problem. A friend of mine's mother went to the doctor complaining of a headache. From what I understand the doctor told her it was nothing to worry about, get some rest, take paracetemol, etc and then she later died of an aneurism. Should you demand a brain scan every time you have a headache?

Personally, I don't bother with doctors for most things and I dislike the attitude some people seem to have whereby they think they should regularly be going to the doctors. I also have a particularly hatred of anything even resembling hypocondria since it seems to accompany particularly annoying forms of neuroses.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

The problem seems to be that it's difficult to judge what might be a problem. A friend of mine's mother went to the doctor complaining of a headache. From what I understand the doctor told her it was nothing to worry about, get some rest, take paracetemol, etc and then she later died of an aneurism. Should you demand a brain scan every time you have a headache?

No, because there's a low probability of any given headache being caused by something more damaging, and pragmatically it's not worth the time.

However, it still remains possible that the easily observed symptoms may be demonstrative of something more damaging (think of the dislike of bright lights and rash of meningitis) and that's something that a doctor will be more likely to figure out than a layman. Obviously doctors are not omniscient in terms of symptom combinations, but they're likely to know more than you or I.

[KoeN]

i read this thread at lunchtime.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by horn

isn't there an "NHS online", or something where you can give self-diagnosis a whack.

Yes, but it's pretty rubbish, and can lead to both false positives and false negatives because there isn't any actual decision making in play.

Originally Posted by horn

I think a simple yes/no database type jobby could be pretty helpful in preventing such hypochondiac problems. For instance... the fairly well known meningitis test involving putting a tumbler over the suspect rash..

Trouble is, it's difficult to publicise, and get people to know about, large numbers of these kind of things, which is why we

a. have them only for the more dangerous things with obvious symptoms
and
b. have professional doctors.

[Alki]

E45 just doesnt work, i dont have eczema anymore, used to as a kid, and got some cream which worked, it just never came back after that. They seem to prescribe e45 for any kind of eczema, all it is a moisteriser in my opinion. Dont scratch it, wear gloves when you goto sleep or something equally as gay because your probably scratching at night when you dont realise it

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by MrL_Jakiri

No, because there's a low probability of any given headache being caused by something more damaging, and pragmatically it's not worth the time.

Indeed, but individual patients are sometimes unable to calculate such probabilities with any degree of objectivity (or certainty).

Originally Posted by horn

in yourself or others ?

I've only observed it in others so far. Undoubtedly I'm not immune but I tend not to worry about my health that often.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Indeed, but individual patients are sometimes unable to calculate such probabilities with any degree of objectivity (or certainty).

Which is why people go to the doctor.

What are we arguing about again?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Which is why people go to the doctor.

What are we arguing about again?

I don't know.

I just don't like people going to the doctor as I think it makes them pussies. I don't really care about how healthcare is paid for either, I'd feel the same even if they were paying a market rate per visit.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by horn

ok, but most medical knowledge is just observation and application

'just' observation?

It takes many years of hard medical training to be able to diagnose diseases by observation, good luck getting a computer or untrained individual to do it with any degree of accuracy.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I don't know.

I just don't like people going to the doctor as I think it makes them pussies. I don't really care about how healthcare is paid for either, I'd feel the same even if they were paying a market rate per visit.

I feel much the same way about the doctor, theres always someone more ill than me...hence I dont really go.

Tried getting an appointment, they have none ;/

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I don't know.

I just don't like people going to the doctor as I think it makes them pussies. I don't really care about how healthcare is paid for either, I'd feel the same even if they were paying a market rate per visit.

I don't like doctors, whenever I go to them they tell me I'm ill, and I don't like being ill.

Am I a manly man?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Am I a manly man?

Real men don't get ill, and if they do then they overcome it with Triumph des Willens.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Real men don't get ill, and if they do then they overcome it with Triumph des Willens.

I'm reading Thus Spoke Zarathrustra in between writing this essay if that counts.

[Nodrog]

I doubt slaves enjoyed being healthy.

'Capability to produce' would be more fitting for the capitalist society, although that is misleading since capitalism has generally made production easier, hence even people withillnesses that would previously have been extremely serious (like a leg falling off) could still start their own dot com company from their sickbed or whatever.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

They probably didn't but the question Ernst is asking is whether they had the capability to enjoy.

I doubt slaves had the capability to enjoy much when they were being forced to plough wheat and smelt swords.

post-edit: I think you are misreading the quote. Ernst is saying that society considers you ill if you can't work

This isnt really true; society considers you ill if you exhibit certain symptoms such as having a skin diseaase, a broken leg, or whatever. These things often cause people to not work, but its not a necessary/sufficient condition thing - some illnesses allow people to continue working (eg a cold), and some people dont work for reasons other than being ill (such as not being able to find a job).

just as in the middle ages you were ill if you couldn't believe.

This isnt true either, since some physical illnesses were recognised which had nothing to do with belief or its lack. There was probably a tendancy to attribute things like demonic possesion to some non-believers but this doesnt really count as illness.

This actually applies to your question about why Pig waited 2 years to go to the doctor. Had it stopped him working, no doubt he would have gone alot sooner.

Correlation != causation. If an illness was serious enough to stop him working, it would probably be either very painful, or very discomforting and hence would make him more likely to go to the doctor. If someone chops my legs off then this might stop me working, but this is not the primary reason why I will want to go to hospital.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

You are using modern definitions of sick to describe older attitudes.

Well no, I'm not. You were. If you want to use the letters 'sick' to mean something different from what the word 'sick' means in the English language, you might want to indicate this

Your just being stupid

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Well i wasn't doing anything I was merely attempting to explain that in looking at social definitions of what it means to be unhealthy Bloch juxtaposes 3 different definitions to show that being sick is a relative term not just in comparison to other people but in different cultures and ages..

I dont think this shows that 'sick' is a relative term - it just shows that different societies have different languages (unsurprisingly). What we call sick is fairly objective, and can be applied universally - someone who had cancer 400 years ago was just as sick as someone with cancer today. His society/language might not have had a word which precisely corresponded to 'sick' in the English language, but so what? His language might not have had a word for 'tree' either, but that doesnt mean that trees 400 years ago werent actually trees, not does it mean that 'tree' is a subjective term. Since we're pointlessly quoting academics, you could read Kripke's remarks about reference fixing in Naming and Neccesity which elaborates on this sort of thing.

Being ill really has nothing to do with working or capitalism, Marxism aside.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Any usage of the world sick, or "health" in the quote, can be applied universally - and the absurdity of applying the earlier understandings of the term to our modern world is carries over just as much to our current definition.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

We don't really mind if someone is a drug addict as long as they pay for themselves.

we don't don't we.

[Yahwe]

don't be jaded.

I care deeply and so do thousands of others.

[Chunderbunny]

When I was younger I used to go the Doctor every time something little seemed wrong with me. I also used to always seem to have something wrong with me.

At about 16 I stopped doing this, and subsequently, I stopped seeming to always have something wrong with me.

I found most Doctors would just prescribe me antibiotics, and try to get me out the door, which I now believe to be a little stupid, hence another reason why I don't go to the Doc's. If I feel some kind of illness coming on, I just try (if circumstance allows) to chill out a bit more, and make sure I'm getting plenty of vits and 'good stuff' in me (I'm not a nutritionist before anyone jumps on this - By it I mean eat more fruit and veg, and switch from Coffee and Tea to fruit juice). I usually feel the 'illness' go away after a couple of days of this.

I think I've been twice in the last 6 years, once because I wanted a hearing test because I felt my hearing was sub par to others in a large group (friends would comment that I'd ask them to repeat themselves a lot in bars and the like, and a close friend seriously recommended that I get one), and also because I was going to gigs about twice a week and practising drums daily. This was turned down. And the other time was an ill spell that felt particularly rotten, and even then, I ended up binning the prescription, getting some hot lemon, spent a couple of days just playing computer games/watching movies/taking short walks and eating fruit, and felt great after about a day and a half.

Maybe I've just been lucky for a few years, but I really found mental shift from always relying on a Doc and analysing every small possibility, to 'Hmmm I'm starting to feel a little crap, thats my body telling me to chill and look after myself more' to be for the best. Now if I feel somethings wrong with me, I usually look at what I'm currently eating, how much Im sleep, how much work I'm doing, how much exercise I'm doing and how much drinking I'm doing before I even consider something else.

Also, I used to get excema and mouth ulcers, and they pretty much always flared up in time for courseworks/exams etc in school. Pretty certain they only came on during stressed periods. With excema I used to use moisturiser, and Ive used Dove soap only for years now. Occasionally I'd dab camomile lotion on patchs (I used to get really small, but incredibly itchy patches). I dont think the camomile lotion has any actual healing qualities, but I found it really took the itch out of it, thus helping prevent the exacerbating problem of scratching.

[Yahwe]

save it for the (soon to be remaindered) biography chunder bunny.

don't waste killer copy here!

[Chunderbunny]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

save it for the (soon to be remaindered) biography chunder bunny.

don't waste killer copy here!

I think you probably meant autobiography here

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Chunderbunny

Maybe I've just been lucky for a few years, but I really found mental shift from always relying on a Doc and analysing every small possibility, to 'Hmmm I'm starting to feel a little crap, thats my body telling me to chill and look after myself more' to be for the best. Now if I feel somethings wrong with me, I usually look at what I'm currently eating, how much Im sleep, how much work I'm doing, how much exercise I'm doing and how much drinking I'm doing before I even consider something else.

I'd be more surprised if people our age (between 18 and 60) didn't do this. Although quite frankly I'd advise having a proper diet and getting the right amounts of sleep and exercise even when you're not sick. You might find you feel great all year round!





PS If we call paedophiles sick but they're still able to do their economic duty (I like this phrase) surely that means your definition requires refining T&F?

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Chunderbunny

I think you probably meant autobiography here

no

I was presuming you'd need someone to do it for you.

I can't think why I made that presumption ...

[pig]

:update:

So I went to the doctors today finally and it was quite intersting.

The way he diagnosed me was funny though. Now im not against gay people but he was a gay doctor, I know its stupid but things run through your mind when he asked me to take off my trousers and top. Anyway it appears I have...

Cirrhosis

This is the same Cirrhosis of the liver, except it appears on my knuckles/hands and elbows. He gave me some cream which he is confident will remove it, if it doesnt he will put me on stronger steroid cream.

My only slight concernt is that Cirrhosis of the liver is quite prevelant on one side of my family (the irish side - due to drinking etc) Now as I said the worry is that perhaps when im older I may get Cirrhosis of the liver if I have the skin problem atm. So im going to review my drinking in a few years.

[_RATM_]

I can't say I know much about Cirrhosis, but one thing generally doesn't just go off to another. Cancer can generalise, but Cirrhosis?

Btw I feel for you on the eczema part, I had it so bad as a child that both of my hands were peelable, as in, take off an entire layer of skin in one rip.

And winter sucks, always have to moisturise, I feel like a metrosexual dweeb.