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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:47   #1
Hebdomad
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Student Loans

This post is more or less bereft of content. It's merely here so I can place a little note in history. Then in a couple of years, maxiumum, I can refer back to it and say "I knew." ... Guys, I think we're going to get f-cked pretty hard sooner or later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gordonbrown/story/0,,2123917,00.html
Sale of student loans bill
Will offload the running of student loans schemes from the government to the private sector, as laid out in this year's budget. The sale is expected to raise around £6bn by the end of 2010/11.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 17:34   #2
Nodrog
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Re: Student Loans

There would be good and bad points in a privatised/unregulated student loans market; presumably youd have to pay interest above inflation, but youd probably also be able to get a larger amount per year than the current system. The student overdraft situation is maybe the best comparasion; you can get really good deals through market forces alone without needing any regulation (I've got £2000 interest free or something).

Youre focusing on inessentials anyway, the parts of that to worry about are:

Quote:
Human tissues and embryos bill
Merges the current two authorities to create the Regulatory Authority for Tissue & Embryos. Legislates for ensuring that the production and use of all human embryos outside the body - whatever the process used in their creation - is subject to regulation. It will continue the ban on selecting the sex of offspring for non-medical reasons. The duty to take account of "the welfare of the child" is extended

Education and skills bill
The bill details proposals announced yesterday by the children's secretary, Ed Balls, to raise the school leaving age to 18.


Criminal justice and immigration bill
Announced last month, the bill (...) includes new "violent offender orders", greater powers to tackle antisocial behaviour, and new powers to remove terrorists and serious criminals from the UK.

Counter-terrorism bill
The bill fleshes out proposals announced last month by the former home secretary John Reid. It includes proposals for extending detention limits for terror suspects beyond 28 days, allowing terrorist suspects to be questioned after charge, introducing a new register to keep track of convicted terrorists, and holding a review of possible use of intercept evidence. It will also ban convicted terrorists from traveling overseas.
The criminal justice one is especially disgusting, as is keeping people imprisoned in schools until 18.

Last edited by Nodrog; 11 Jul 2007 at 18:03.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 17:53   #3
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Re: Student Loans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
There would be good and bad points in a privatised/unregulated student loans market
Just because it's privatised doesn't mean it'd be unregulated.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The criminal justice one is especially disgusting, as is keeping people imprisoned in schools until 18.
It depends. If they did this alongside some kind of scheme that concentrated on increasing the amount of vocational training (apprenticeships included) then this could potentially work. Speaking from experience though, school just isn't for some teenagers. The way of life there doesn't suit their learning and they don't want to be there. They'd be better off learning something practical or working while learning, so they can see the point of it.

I agree with you though. Keeping people in school until 18 is a terrible idea.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 17:54   #4
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Re: Student Loans

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
Just because it's privatised doesn't mean it'd be unregulated.
Unless they sell it to the mafia, it'll probably be regulated.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 18:39   #5
Hebdomad
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Re: Student Loans

It's the start of a slippery slope. I predict that the government will need to give more incentives and flexibility to the private companies to take up these contracts after a while. These will probably entail an increase in interest rates and change in payback times, probably annulling some of the conditions where one does not have to pay it back at present, along with exposing eighteen year olds to the relative harshness of private companies. I can see a market and choice for students, which would be fine if it weren't for Michel's Iron Law of Oligarchy.

This is also a plus for the government because it slowly distances them from the problem of students amassing enormous amounts of debt and being put off university because of that, regulated or not.

Society and its representatives should actually use the university system to increase the education levels of society's middle ground (i.e. not just the elite who run the country, who have enough money anyway), not just make money off them. It's obviously not so diametrical; however this is a clear win for the latter.

Last edited by Hebdomad; 11 Jul 2007 at 18:45.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 03:31   #6
Dante Hicks
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Re: Student Loans

Since the debt itself (or my bit of it was, anyway) was sold off years ago, I did wonder sometimes why the government administered it tbh. It's not like the private sector doesn't have experience with lending people money.

There are of course numerous private companies with outrageous approaches to debt collection, but then again government will put you in prison for not paying your TV licence and at least one local authority in my area proudly advertise (boast?) how many families they've evicted for rent arrears. Why they should be so proud of this evident failure on their part in preventing arrears is beyond me.

So yeah, the private secor are pretty shit, but so are the government. I used to be a strong believer in "this will make other, worse policies more easy" and in some cases that holds true. But what really holds shitty policies at bay is resistance (actual or anticipated) - through the courts, or the the street level bureaucracy, or the end users themselves. If a government at some point in the future wishes to **** the student loan holders the outcome will probably not be decided by whether it's a private or public agency administering the paperwork.

Of course, if there was to be a serious policy change - in that the government would not guarantee the loan, or that not everyone would be entitled to them, etc then of course this would mean quite a lot of changes. The government would need to abandon many of their further education targets for one.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 09:39   #7
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Re: Student Loans

It's amazing how many people spoke of tuition fees initially as "oh it's only £1000, that's not much to pay for a year at uni" or some such thing.
What a lot of people fail to realise in a lot of education/NHS etc policies is that it's just a starting point and things will probably become a lot worse in the future

Student loans seem pretty pointless for a private company to want in their current form though.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 09:45   #8
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Re: Student Loans

I'm not worried. I just take the 'ignore it and hope it goes away' attitude to life.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 15:23   #9
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Re: Student Loans

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I'm not worried. I just take the 'ignore it and hope it goes away' attitude to life.
That's how I treat KoeN's posts on GD and it has been a smooth ride so far!
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 15:52   #10
Hebdomad
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Re: Student Loans

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Was that a "who's standing up for the middle classes" remark?
Bad term really - although I didn't actually say middle class. More non-elites and down.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 20:36   #11
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Re: Student Loans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Student loans seem pretty pointless for a private company to want in their current form though.
I suspect most companies believe they can run the service more efficiently than the government while simultaneously secure some sort of guarantee that if it all goes pear shaped they're protected. In fact, isn't that your companies entire MO?
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 22:00   #12
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Re: Student Loans

but they only make money on interest, and that's around inflation and only if the loan is actually paid back at all...


and my company charge 10% on everything
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