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Unread 3 Oct 2007, 16:53   #51
All Systems Go
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

I have never used Outlook. Fact.
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Unread 3 Oct 2007, 17:01   #52
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I have never used Outlook. Fact.
Hardly a surprise, you've never had a proper job either.
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Unread 3 Oct 2007, 17:02   #53
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

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Originally Posted by furball
Hardly a surprise, you've never had a proper job either.
*ouch*
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Unread 3 Oct 2007, 18:39   #54
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Access is good for simple/home/personal databases. Excel, as far as I've worked/programmed it, sucks at creating relations between data. It'll do the job of making a list of your music collection just fine, but don't make it (much) more complex.
What kind of things would you put in a home database except music/DVD collections?


Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
What exactly do you teach?
ICT and Business Studies
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Unread 3 Oct 2007, 19:36   #55
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Hardly a surprise, you've never had a proper job either.
this is harsh but fair
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 12:23   #56
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Surely the only remotely usefull and hard to replace thing in there is Outlook.
I've found that a lot of companies use Lotus Notes instead.

No idea if it's better or worse than Outlook as I haven't used the latter.

Notes does the job though.
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 13:55   #57
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

out of curiosity do schools teach programming at gcse level?? i agree with dante that it'd be far more useful than say access. I can't programme myself but i can see the distinct advantage those who can have. If you're teaching access is it that big a step to doing the same thing in sql??
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 15:48   #58
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I have never used Outlook. Fact.
my phone will only synch with outlook
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 16:09   #59
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
ICT and Business Studies
Which would mean getting your students to setup a business model, and then actually creating an application to run this would be prefect with Access surely?

An example of this would be a car dealership, employing staff and selling many cars.
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 16:36   #60
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
Which would mean getting your students to setup a business model, and then actually creating an application to run this would be prefect with Access surely?

An example of this would be a car dealership, employing staff and selling many cars.
I did a thing like this for my A level computing. We had to use an access database then a visual basic front end for the GUI.

Access has it's uses even if just for doing basic database type stuff to learn.
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 20:39   #61
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

We also had to do that for A Level computing, I thought everyone had to.
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 22:08   #62
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
An example of this would be a car dealership, employing staff and selling many cars.
Excel can do this happily.
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Unread 4 Oct 2007, 22:43   #63
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
If you're teaching access is it that big a step to doing the same thing in sql??
Beyond a certain (quite low) point, Access is much harder to use anyway in my experience. I've been maintaining db's for a while now and of the wide range of queries I am faced with,the "Hey can you support this Access application that someone wrote three years ago and then left" scenario is the one which causes a not inconsiderable amount of pain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
What kind of things would you put in a home database except music/DVD collections?
Very simplistic web backend. You're much more likely to go the Apache / PHP route if you want to learn anything, but with a normally configured copy of XP Pro+Office it's something like four lines of code to get a simplistic query showing on a web page. If you're unwilling/unable to install new software/services then it does the trick.
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 10:47   #64
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Excel can do this happily.
Having used both applications Tomkat, unlike like you evidently.

I'm here to tell you "Don't teach kids to do that kind of thing in Excel, its not what it's for!"
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 11:03   #65
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
Having used both applications Tomkat, unlike like you evidently.

I'm here to tell you "Don't teach kids to do that kind of thing in Excel, its not what it's for!"
The learning objectives/outcomes are easily achieved using Excel. It's much more user friendly and much easier to teach.

Why rub sticks together to create a fire, when you have a lighter?
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 11:12   #66
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
The learning objectives/outcomes are easily achieved using Excel. It's much more user friendly and much easier to teach.

Why rub sticks together to create a fire, when you have a lighter?
I presume you are saying this because you don't know how to use Access yourself.

The idea of creating a working relational database with functional front-end in Excel would make me want to stick forks through my eyes.

Out of interest what are the outcomes and objectives?

The high school I was at last year used an online learning environment called 'Dida'(sp?), which required the kids to use Access to create their application. Whilst also teaching them what Databases are, modeling the relationships and consideration to the type and length of fields amongst other things.
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 17:14   #67
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
Out of interest what are the outcomes and objectives?
Well you just made up a coursework that would never be realistic in Business Studies as it doesn't test any kind of subject knowledge, so I have no idea. I just was saying that what you were suggesting could be easily done in Excel (income from selling cars vs costs from paying staff, buying stock yadda yadda).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
The high school I was at last year used an online learning environment called 'Dida'(sp?), which required the kids to use Access to create their application. Whilst also teaching them what Databases are, modeling the relationships and consideration to the type and length of fields amongst other things.
Yeah, we teach Dida at my school. We're getting rid of it this year as it's shit (the course itself is fine, it's the markscheme and analysis of results that sucks - it's v.hard to mark as it isn't quantifiable - questions like "does the webpage stand out?" and "does the logo look good?").

Access is a TINY part of Dida. 2-3 marks out of 42, maximum. All they have to do is stick a load of premade data into Access, split it into the different fields, then do a couple of queries on it. The kids hate it, the teachers hate it, most people hate it.



It's only people who USE databases who care. It's hardly surprising that a community based around a database led space game has lots of geeks who love databases and think they're really useful in the real world, is it?
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 17:33   #68
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Yeah, databases are useless in the real world! ""
Seriously now, do you call that an argument? Databases are probably the most useful thing computers brought to this world for the "common man" (with which I mean people who don't work with computers). Atleast the most useful thing I can come up with right now, I'm sure somebody will come up with a more useful thing, like porn. But think about where all the information about porn is stored! (hint - It's not in Excel)
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Unread 5 Oct 2007, 20:02   #69
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

I'm know they're useful, I never said they weren't. I don't see why everyone should need to know how to create and format one, though. Most people couldn't care less (or NEED to know!) what the difference between a field and a record is, let alone how to filter results or do queries or whatever. People are paid money to create nice user friendly things to do it for us
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Unread 6 Oct 2007, 00:09   #70
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Just download Open Office - it's free and compatible.

MS Office can be quite useful, but why someone would want to spend 600 pounds on it, and only use one or two of its programs in a normally limited manner, is beyond me. Especially when MS decides to update its suite every year or so, making everyone believe that they must also update (technological knowledge required to install the conversion program for their horrific OpenXML crap etc).

It's quite clever on MS's behalf though. Give its suite names like "Professional", "Small Office", "Enterprise", etc and suddenly everyone claims "professional" status and then wonders why they've had this thing called "Access" on their computer for fours months or so without using it once.
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Unread 6 Oct 2007, 00:28   #71
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Also, although TomKat's students will leave school with a poor understanding of when and when not to use a database (as opposed to understanding that a spreadsheet will suffice for data management) and the usefulness of cross referential data, they will at least have never used Access, which I would count as a blessing.
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 13:29   #72
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

I made a database on Excel with all your names and how much of a butte you are. Then I sorted it. Guess who came top?!
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 13:35   #73
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

yourself, for using excel?
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 14:14   #74
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Also, although TomKat's students will leave school with a poor understanding of when and when not to use a database (as opposed to understanding that a spreadsheet will suffice for data management) and the usefulness of cross referential data, they will at least have never used Access, which I would count as a blessing.
It's knowing when to use a database over a spreadsheet that's the important bit.

This little write up explains and sets it out quite well I think, even though it's done by Microsoft.
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 21:16   #75
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Instead of going into the technicalities of database design can we just finish by asserting that TomKat is part of the problem?
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 23:25   #76
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Also, although TomKat's students will leave school with a poor understanding of when and when not to use a database
A large proportion of people never NEED to know when to use a database. Why teach them skills like that that are almost entirely useless? If they have an interest in databases (for their future) outside school, then they can pursue it outside the national curriculum.

You don't learn anything alongside database knowledge, like you might if formatting a letter in Word (grammar/layout/spelling etc) or by creating a presentation in Powerpoint (thinking about audience and purpose, and the layout/colours used in it to draw attention).
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Unread 7 Oct 2007, 23:56   #77
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Damm maybe it is time I looked at some of this stuff seeing I have a computer company.
Wonder why I was getting side glances from clients wondering what planet I was from.
But hey why derange the brain with useless information when it gets filled with quantum thoeries and atomic sub structural understanding.
If I need answers I ask my IT Engineers for a fix muahahaha.
Oh no and here I thought life was for living and having fun. Another day and then some more fishing and drinking wine on the open ocean waiting for the big strike to happen then all else diminishes into the black hole so that all concentration may be given to the task at hand --- landing the big scaley sucker.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 08:23   #78
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Why teach them skills like that that are almost entirely useless?
I thought this is what teachers specialised in ?
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 11:33   #79
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

While I'm hardly Microsoft's biggest fan the bashing they are getting for office here is a little unfair.

First we have Word where we have people going "They would be better off learning a DTP". A DTP is a program that when your producing documents where layout is king and relies heverly on 'artwork' is essential as it gives you the felxability and freedom to be creative that word processors like Word simply dont allow. This flexability and freedom though is simply surplus to requirements for most peoples needs. Things like writting letters, essays, producing CV's ect ect do not the power of a DTP. And yes a DTP will generally be able to pretend to be a word processor and produce your Word Processor documents adequately but its just not set out to really be at home as one.

Then we have the Access debate. Yes Access does have a limited audience in the real world, for the kind of basic lists that the average user needs Excel does the job fine and for the big company databases running across networks then SQL Server, Oracle and such like are alot more powerful and useful but when it comes to bridging product its immense. If you require a relational database that will run on a local machine to store a large amount of data it really cant be beat. While not being word level of Install and use its not too hard to get to grips with and produce a low level relational database and it has enough power to be expanded on as needs grow thus allowing the databases life to be expanded as the needs grow. Yes you will eventually hit a point where your needs are such that you will really have to be looking at something better but for most people they will never reach this level.

As a teaching tool Access as others have said is alot easier to introduce database design concepts than most other applications, the entry level is fairly low which makes it quick and easy to get into and start putting what you have been told into practice. I also think personally its a good way of getting people to be happy using the database frontends that they will come across when working, when you have done some form design and validating of fields when it comes to using a frontend to enter data you cant help but feel more at home than you would have otherwise. In truth I cant help feel that TK is failing his students by not teaching them when to use a database over an excel worksheet and by clearly never giving them the chance to put the theory into practice. As for the most wont ever use it after the course argument, lets be honest most of whats taught in schools wont ever be used after the course, it doesnt however make it useless and not worth teaching. Some people on the course will use it directly while others will find the knowledge is used indirectly.

As for Outlook, from a home pov its not that much use as an application as most people will just use it for email but as others have said when you couple it with an exchange server in a business its a powerful tool

Of all the main apps I have to say Ive always hated Powerpoint the most, its not really any worse than any other presentation application and presentation applications are useful especially in business but theres just something about it that always has me feeling im stuck in the 80's when using it.

On the whole the Office suite is imho a great collection of software, the price is and always has been an issue and with things like Open Office and Google Docs you have good free alternatives but they just arent near the Microsoft level yet. No doubt the gap will close, after all Microsoft have Decades lead in development of these products over the rivals and the competition will be good for everyone but if you can jusitify paying the money Office will imho be the perfered choice for a few more years atleast
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 12:55   #80
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
As for Outlook, from a home pov its not that much use as an application as most people will just use it for email but as others have said when you couple it with an exchange server in a business its a powerful tool
I switched from Thunderbird back to Outlook for this reason. Thunderbird is a great app if all you want to do is email, but if you want extra features and the power of coupling with an exchange it's just not up to the job.

Access is what I learnt on when first approaching databases and it was great for entry level. It's easy to get to grips with quickly and learn the basic fundamentals of database management.

I agree with Wakey, Office is a great bundle of software except for Powerpoint and the fact the price is a bit steep if you're not in full time education.

These free versions of Office are ok but just aren't up to the job if you want to do something past basic home use, in my opinion.

It is great to bash Microsoft but some credit should be given where it is deserved.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 12:56   #81
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

They must be doing something right if the vast majority of the people uses their software, regardless of the price.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 14:50   #82
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quantity=quality.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 18:32   #83
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
They must be doing something right if the vast majority of the people uses their software, regardless of the price.
A lot of people use it because it's what's used. It's a self-perpetuating situation.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 19:04   #84
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

True, of course. People use what people use. Yet on the other hand a program like Firefox does manage to get an edge, even on an Internet Explorer oriented market, meaning that if a program really is shit (or if enough people have that impression), people are willing to try what people don't use, at least not yet. But even with widely available alternatives (Linux, FreeBSD, OpenOffice, etc), people stick with Windows and Office. And this is a situation in which Microsoft has a weaker position compared to the Internet Explorer vs. Firefox war: Internet Explorer is free, Office and (to lesser extent, when compined with a newly bought PC) Windows are not.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 19:21   #85
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
In truth I cant help feel that TK is failing his students by not teaching them when to use a database over an excel worksheet and by clearly never giving them the chance to put the theory into practice.
I do teach them it, I just hate doing it (as do they...) and am dubious about its value.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:01   #86
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
While I'm hardly Microsoft's biggest fan the bashing they are getting for office here is a little unfair.

First we have Word where we have people going "They would be better off learning a DTP".
Hmmm, I'm not sure anyone said this as a general point. I said that for what a lot of people use Word for, they'd be better off getting a DTP program. I already said Word was reasonably good for writing letters and non-rich reports. But because Word is all they have / know how to use, a lot of people end up struggling for hours in Word to create something they'd ultimately better off doing in another package.

The same can be said of Excel. Excel has a wonderfully low set up cost. There's no boring table setup, field definitions, primary keys or anything like that to think about before you start-off. Which is great, when you're trying to do back of the fag packet type calculations. But then people make sheets increasingly complex and there's a point reached when the effort spent maintaining the damn thing makes a database worthwhile. Excel also gets misused for all sorts of things though - I know a couple of surveyors who make cells very small and use cell-shading to do technical drawings. It kind of works, but one suspects they're missing out on some of the features that CAD programs give you.

Incidentally, I forgot my main gripe with the Office suite over the years (which fortunately seems to have improved in recent versions) : complete disregard for compatibility. While not supporting file formats from outside your company is irritatingly arrogant, not supporting your own formats is incredibly infuriating. The amount of time I've wasted trying to get round these problems since I started using Word 2 back in the day must run into solid days...

p.s. Incidentally this thread is an accidentally brilliant example of why the teaching model fails in most subjects (in terms of depth of understanding).
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:07   #87
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
p.s. Incidentally this thread is an accidentally brilliant example of why the teaching model fails in most subjects (in terms of depth of understanding).
because you are posting in it?
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:41   #88
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
A large proportion of people never NEED to know when to use a database. Why teach them skills like that that are almost entirely useless? If they have an interest in databases (for their future) outside school, then they can pursue it outside the national curriculum.
Because - and this is an important point so please read slowly so as not to miss anything - you're a teacher. It may be my idealist expectations of such a professional, but they're supposed to teach and not neglect quite a large part of ICT merely because they personally don't find it useful through their lack of experience. It saying "I don't understand it and have never used it as I've never entered into industry so no-one else will need it and if they do need it they can go somewhere else regardless that I'm placed here to teach them about ICT and perhaps even spark their intelligence and possible future career."

If say, I was interested in such, I would probably take a course in ICT and I would expect to learn about it properly (as it's a hugely important part of Information Communication Techonology) as opposed to learn how to format a Word document (which isn't). Learning how to format word document is only more useful if 1) you treat your students as idiots who've not learnt about such in their English language class 2) you assume they'll never need to know about databases which is somewhat more likely as you're not teaching it properly.

You're lack of understanding of databases will cause their lack of understanding and their lack of understanding will close off one career avenue for them.

But as I said, Access is a stupid teaching aid in my experience, and as I doubt you'll actually try to understand databases in any other way to aid your students' edification, let's just call it a draw.

Last edited by Hebdomad; 8 Oct 2007 at 21:48.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:47   #89
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
If say, I was interested in such, I would probably take a course in ICT and I would expect to learn about it (as it's a hugely important part of Information Communication Techonology) as opposed to learn how to format a Word document (which isn't). Learning how to format word document is only more useful if 1) you treat your students as idiots who've not learnt about such in their English language class 2) you assume they'll never need to know about databases which is somewhat more likely as you're not teaching it.
we shall put to one side the fact that I am going to assume that you were drunk when you wrote this.

The two situations you describe are, in the working world, described thus - data entry (databases) vs secretary (formatting word documents).

I question how anyone could in that fight not side with the secretaries. they are so much nicer. In money terms both earn the same but secretaries are much more loved
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:51   #90
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

data entry isn't database design and creation dude. but okay i agree to whatever you're arguing.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:52   #91
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
data entry isn't database design and creation dude. but okay i agree to whatever you're arguing.
take a good look at yourself
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:54   #92
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

touché!
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 21:56   #93
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Because - and this is an important point so please read slowly so as not to miss anything - you're a teacher. It may be my idealist expectations of such a professional, but they're supposed to teach and not neglect quite a large part of ICT merely because they personally don't find it useful through their lack of experience.
I'll write this slowly, as you seem to have brushed over all my other posts and assumed stuff that I didn't actually say.

I DO teach it. I never said I ignored it. I just don't LIKE teaching it. If I had my way, it would be a tiny tiny part of the curriculum (if at all).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
I doubt you'll actually try to understand databases in any other way to aid your students' edification
Just for your information, the requirements at Key Stage 3 ICT are the following:
  • finding things out
  • developing ideas and making things happen
  • exchanging and sharing information
  • reviewing, modifying and evaluating work as it progresses
  • breadth of study

Now Access really only falls under those categories in "exchanging and sharing information". It doesn't feature heavily in the National Curriculum at all, and that's because ICT isn't about teaching people how to use Word/Excel/Powerpoint. The idea of teaching is to use those as a tool to learn skills.

For instance, in History you probably hated having to learn the dates of battles or information. You weren't being tested on your memory though. That'd be retarded. You were being trained to think chronologically and to relate one event to another by seeing the repercussions throughout history.
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Unread 8 Oct 2007, 23:58   #94
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Now Access really only falls under those categories in "exchanging and sharing information". It doesn't feature heavily in the National Curriculum at all, and that's because ICT isn't about teaching people how to use Word/Excel/Powerpoint. The idea of teaching is to use those as a tool to learn skills.

For instance, in History you probably hated having to learn the dates of battles or information. You weren't being tested on your memory though. That'd be retarded. You were being trained to think chronologically and to relate one event to another by seeing the repercussions throughout history.
I think the only reason that this is contentious is that you've seemingly positioned yourself as thinking that Excel is a simpler analogue of Access, which is demonstrably bollocks. Your previous posts implied that what you were teaching your students was misrepresentative.

For example, whilst a woodwork teacher could feasible demonstrate how to shape wood with a knife, I'd be better off with a chisel. I'm learning the same skill through the use of both, but one is clearly not the right tool for the job.

Access does indeed probably only fall under that category highlighted, but that's no excuse for trying to shoe-horn other applications into its space.



Edit:
I did KS3 ICT now nearly 9 years ago, so I'm making assumptions that it's not changed that much. Our task was to implement a 'stock reorder system' for a cinema, involving minimum stock reorder levels and the like. It was taught using conditional formatting and filters in Excel - this was retarded then, and it's retarded now. Instead of making a system that worked as the requirements specified, we spent more time fighting Excel and wondering why it couldn't make pretty reports for us like we needed. If our IT teacher had arsed himself, he could have taught us the requisite skills in Access in two classes. Perhaps I'm bitter about IT teachers who don't know their shit, but a bunch of us wasted a lot of time on something that another tool could have performed because the teacher didn't know what the other tool could do.
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 00:08   #95
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
The idea of teaching is to use those as a tool to learn skills.
So you're using Excel as a tool to help them learn about databases. A spreadsheet is as much as a database as notepad is a database.

I'm going to teach you how to drive a lorry, using a moped!

I didn't read your other posts. ho ho ho.
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 08:15   #96
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
So you're using Excel as a tool to help them learn about databases. A spreadsheet is as much as a database as notepad is a database.
That's three times you've deliberately misunderstood me. Stop being so irritating. I never said I use Excel in place of Access for teaching. I said I don't like Access because for most requirements (with the exception of creating databases in your profession), Excel is a lot easier to use.

In my PERSONAL LIFE (surprisingly enough, teachers have a life outside of teaching...) I always use Excel over Access. In lessons, I don't get a choice - Access is in the Scheme of Work so I use/teach Access.
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 09:37   #97
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
In my PERSONAL LIFE (surprisingly enough, teachers have a life outside of teaching...) I always use Excel over Access.
Why would you ever use excel, access etc in your personal life?
The only thing I've even used Word for out of work/education is to write my CV.
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 11:08   #98
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Why would you ever use excel, access etc in your personal life?
In the last week I've used Excel for:
  • Writing down my finances so I can see where my money is going and how much I have each month (trying to work out how much I can stick in a savings account)
  • Organising a pub crawl (27 pubs... 12 hours... logistical nightmare :whiteshirt: )
  • Guestlist for a party with "attending" and "non-attending" so I know how many people are coming.

Could any of those be done in Access?
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 11:47   #99
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

no idea, but you could have done them in notepad or even written them down on a piece of paper.

they're hardly good examples of what to use excel for.
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Unread 9 Oct 2007, 11:52   #100
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Re: Its things like this that make me wish i was still a student :(

Actually, his first example is exactly something you'd use Excel for. But yeah, I'm sure you could've done that in notepad as well. You could've probably used cuniform, and carved it into a rock if you really tried. But that's hardly the point, is it?
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