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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 16:50   #1
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Unhappy [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

So I get back from holiday, to find a letter from my work.

Due to my phones being off for 2 days,on days on which i was on holiday, I am required to attend a 'disciplinary' hearing on monday morning, with a view to them firing me for gross misconduct (so that they don't have to wait 30 days for me to leave, presumably).

my points are going to be as follows.

Quote:
-I was out of the country from the evening of the 29th, and both of my phones were left at home since I knew they wouldn't work abroad and my personal one was out of power in any case. I made certain that [my boss] was aware of the dates of my holiday, but whether he passed this information on to [director] I do not know. Because of this, neither my personal phone nor the support phone was in my possession, and I therefore I was not contactable by yourselves. Since as far as I am aware I had informed the necessary people of the dates that I was away, I am perplexed as to why I was expected to be contactable from this date onwards.

Only when I returned home late on Sunday (9th Jan) and recharged both phones was I aware of any attempt to contact me, and by that time I had received the letter with notice of this meeting.

-The only days for which I was aware I was on call over the Xmas period where Christmas Eve and Christmas day. This was as agreed with [my boss] verbally.
No written agreement or confirmation of this has ever been given to me.

-Never have I had anything in writing to which I have agreed stating that I have to be on call 24/7. My contract does not state this, nor does it state any agreement for working on holidays or out of normal hours.
Furthermore my contract states that after 3 months of employment a review of my pay and performance would be held on the 29th of November , and this has not yet happened, nor have I been given any information as to when it will happen. This would seem to be breach of contract by the company.

-It is not, insofar as I am or have ever been aware, my responsibility to ensure adequate out of hours cover for our IT services. Recent discussions involving myself, [director], and outside parties providing IT support gave me the impression that there was a procedure in place for when I was not contactable.

I recall one conversation in particular with [director] in which he noted that the result of recent meetings with the outside suppliers was at least 'numbers to call' if I was not available. I do not know whether he did call any of those persons during the incident referred to.

-If further dispute of your point of view is necessary, I would point out that I have always been dedicated to my job, that I am almost always early in to work, and frequently have stayed late out of hours to fix things or to finish work for clients. I have even been on my way home and come back in to ensure that we delivered work to clients as promised.

Given this, I would argue that the alleged intentional 'failure to respond' is totally out of character, and not in keeping with the dedication and commitment that I have shown to my job so far. Had I been in a position where I was able to respond, I would have done everything within my power to do so, as I have done on every previous occasion where out of hours work to fix problems has been required.
but either way i'm not looking forward to this meeting :/
Has anyone ever had one, or got any ideas on what else i can say ?
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:04   #2
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Don't put up with that shit I say!
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:21   #3
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

As long as you're sure there's nothing in your contract stating that you had to be on call then they haven't a leg to stand on.

Its probably a case of 'something went tits-up and whoevers' fault it is is trying to shift it on to you'.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:36   #4
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Challenge them to a breakdancing contest. Winner takes all.




What do you work as, sorry?
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:47   #5
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

an isp, no?
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:52   #6
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

kinda.

im a systems administrator for a company that provides web hosting etc to clients, as well as making their sites and stuff.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 17:52   #7
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
As long as you're sure there's nothing in your contract stating that you had to be on call then they haven't a leg to stand on.

Its probably a case of 'something went tits-up and whoevers' fault it is is trying to shift it on to you'.
there is not. my contract is abotu 4 lines long.
I have however lost my copy
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 18:16   #8
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Go NB3, go!
Power to the people.

Although you do deserve a slap for losing your contract

Wasn't it Rids who had a disciplinary and won?

Anyway, keep us informed etc.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 18:54   #9
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Exclamation Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Regardless of how it turns out, I'd suggest looking for a new job.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 19:02   #10
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

ouch... i think you should be able to win this one, but i agree with tact. sounds like someone else ****ed up and is blaming you. now either it will just be this incident, or this person doens't like you and this is the first of many attempts to get you fired :\
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 19:09   #11
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Regardless of how it turns out, I'd suggest looking for a new job.
already applied for about 17 today.

trouble is, don't know when my start date could be , cos its either 4 weeks or 1 day :/
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 19:37   #12
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

I'd suggest 4 weeks, or at least you will get 4 weeks pay.
I'd also say it's worth fighting for, even if you get a new job lined up, because it's not the best thing to have in your career - a failed disciplinary.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 19:49   #13
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

indeed, I plan on fighting for my job, which i'll resign from as soon as I get back
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 19:51   #14
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Exclamation Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

If they do sack you, then say you're going to sue them for wrongful dismissal for £5M just to put the shits up them.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 20:47   #15
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

I would say that you don't have a leg to stand on.

Not only were you NOT out of the country on the 29th (you posted on this very board in a thread on this topic at nearly midnight), but you also said you were turning both phones off to stop work calling you.

Finally, you said your contract said that 'some out of hours work may be necessary'. This implies that it is necessary for you to go to some out of hours work, not stick your fingers in your ears.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 20:57   #16
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

'out of hours' doesn't mean holiday periods it means outside of normal office time when you're working, or thats what i thought anyway
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 21:13   #17
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

whats the point of holidays if companies can just ask you to work on them ?
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 21:45   #18
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Finally, you said your contract said that 'some out of hours work may be necessary'. This implies that it is necessary for you to go to some out of hours work, not stick your fingers in your ears.
Surely seeing as he's informed them beforehand that he would not be contactable during a certain period of time they cannot expect to be have been able to contact him? If this director did it was clearly the fault of his manager who (I assume) gets paid to have the responsibility of making sure the correct people have such information. He can't be on call every minute he isn't in work, otherwise the whole idea of time off becomes a bit silly.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 21:56   #19
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

NB3 has prolly missed something essential in all this time which will probably see him dismissed for gross misconduct and him being pissed off and depressed again on the forums for the next couple of months.

Your boss probably just lost a very important client due to your absence that possibly made up 20% or more of the revenue of your company... so even if they didn't sack you for gross misconduct they'll prolly sack you for something anyway.

You'd think in the frail business world of IT you'd be a little more careful about the long term security of the company you work for and the chance you not being available when you shouldn't have to be could bury them.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 21:57   #20
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

oi are you a boy or a girl

edit emb not sunday
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 22:05   #21
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

He's a boy.
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 22:07   #22
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

he'll lose interest in me now, thanks
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Unread 9 Jan 2005, 22:25   #23
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday8pm
NB3 has prolly missed something essential in all this time which will probably see him dismissed for gross misconduct and him being pissed off and depressed again on the forums for the next couple of months.

Your boss probably just lost a very important client due to your absence that possibly made up 20% or more of the revenue of your company... so even if they didn't sack you for gross misconduct they'll prolly sack you for something anyway.
probably. though I don't have time to be angry and depressed again.

I doubt that it lost any major businessm, the only clients that were affected were standard webhosting, and they make sod all (like 20 quid a month) compared to the 4/5 figure sums a month we take from advertising + pr for some clients.

Quote:
You'd think in the frail business world of IT you'd be a little more careful about the long term security of the company you work for and the chance you not being available when you shouldn't have to be could bury them.
uh-huh
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 11:21   #24
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Embroglio
Surely seeing as he's informed them beforehand that he would not be contactable during a certain period of time they cannot expect to be have been able to contact him? If this director did it was clearly the fault of his manager who (I assume) gets paid to have the responsibility of making sure the correct people have such information. He can't be on call every minute he isn't in work, otherwise the whole idea of time off becomes a bit silly.
He didn't mention this in the last thread on it, so I assumed it was a lie, as there are other inconsistencies in this thread to make him look better.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 12:23   #25
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

If you had gone through all proper channels to book the time off then you should simply state that fact and not waffle on about 'i was out of hte country, 24/7 on call, contracts' etc
then hand in your notice due to their lack of respect for your work life balance and mismanagement of the service

If you were skiving and knew they would want to contact you then i would say sorry a lot and say you misunderstood that you had to book holiday from on call seperately from annual leave (or what ever fits right) say it wont happen again and hopefully keep your job
then hand in your notice due to their lack of respect for your work life balance
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 12:30   #26
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Waiting anxiously to hear you report back enby...

And yes it is grossly unfair to expect you to come in whilst on paid leave... and I'd think it would be possible to argue that it is illegal, since you are legally entitled to <X> days of paid leave per annum, and it doesn't count as leave if they've dragged you into the office anyway.
On top of that, you also effectively lose that day of leave unless they credit it back to you - and seeing as your employers appear to be ****wits, I don't think that's likely.

Good luck anyway.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:16   #27
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quit and sue them for constructive dismissal.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:26   #28
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

It appears MrL and Sunday were right.

So i have been dismissed for gross misconduct.

Work believe that I ignored them whilst knowing they had a major client affecting problem.

I know that i should appeal, but i also know that i don't want too, i just want to find another less shit job.

My plan for today is to go buy lots of cheap food, and then find some way to pay the rent that is due in 3 weeks.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:31   #29
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

If you don't appeal (or go to an industrial tribunal) you'll have the fact that you were dismissed for gross misconduct haunting you whenever you apply for another job.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:36   #30
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Appeal just for the money.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:36   #31
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Indeed.

And if i appeal and lose, which is very likely, i'll have the same thing.

Besides, I can always say work dismissed me because i wouldnt work on my holiday days, which is true.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:37   #32
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
Work believe that I ignored them whilst knowing they had a major client affecting problem.
Why shouldn't they? All respect to you, but it's perfectly true that you ignored them.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:39   #33
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

You need to fight them over this, you do have some rights

(At least in Sweden you do, my experience from work in the UK is pretty shitty)
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:39   #34
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Maybe his employers read GD
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:39   #35
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Why shouldn't they? All respect to you, but it's perfectly true that you ignored them.
I never said they shouldn't, and it is perfectly true that I ignored them.

wheres your point ?
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 13:41   #36
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
I never said they shouldn't, and it is perfectly true that I ignored them.

wheres your point ?
Quote:
Because of this, neither my personal phone nor the support phone was in my possession, and I therefore I was not contactable by yourselves.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 14:57   #37
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Maybe his employers read GD
Or Sunday told them.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 16:02   #38
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Contact your union and sue them.

Its your holiday, when your on holiday, they can f*** themselfs. Its their responsibilty to provide cover for you.
Just becouse their shit, doesnt mean they can fire you at will.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 16:05   #39
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

shitty dude :\
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 16:33   #40
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

I think you're insane if you don't try to fight it... yes you did ignore them, but it was on your holiday and you're entitled to be left alone when on paid leave. Plus you'd told them you'd be unavailable.

Get them before an industrial tribunal 1ncleh!
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 18:30   #41
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

At least threaten a tribunal.
Maybe then you can come to some sort of agreement.
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 18:37   #42
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

wouldn't he have to prove he was out of the country during this tribunal?
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 18:47   #43
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

I was at that dismissal hearing, the only reason we sacked him is cos he smells
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 19:02   #44
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Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
At least threaten a tribunal.
Maybe then you can come to some sort of agreement.

'the win'


however, you were there less than 2 years, so... were you on a temporary or a permanent contract?
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Unread 10 Jan 2005, 20:25   #45
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Exclamation Re: [work :( ]So you recall that 'my work is ringing me thread' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
I was at that dismissal hearing, the only reason we sacked him is cos he smells
You set a pretty high bar for sysadmins.
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