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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:48   #1
-Blue Moon-
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drake... whats the point?

seriously... what's the point as an attack ship?

It targets one other ship (asides from itself) - the ghost - which Xan do not need to build because of four reasons:
1) the banshee gives them a DE immunity from zik and ter
2) the banshee is part of their FI pod fleet (and spending resources on the ghost would mean a smaller attack force and 'wasted' resources)
3) the drake shoots before the ghost - and since it has the same apc and dpc as the banshee, it makes building them for terran defense pointless (and why build something for an anti-zik de defense when the banshee gives a DE immunity and shoots before any de ship?)
4) for alliance/cluster defense, the immune-from-harm defending banshee is eta-1 faster than the ghost.

terran barely drakes also for four reasons:
1) unless you're feeling cocky you'd never hit a terran and risk 1:1 killing (not to mention the wyvern which give terran de immunity anyway)
2) you cant realistically use them to hit Xan unless you're 100% sure their fi fleet is out (not to mention they'd probably just build more recall or run anyway)
3) xan will never send ghost in defense against a terran de fleet because it'd be suicide (and is a tick slower)
4) there's no real point to use them against the ETD/CATH fleets as NEITHER of those races have a DE ship to kill in the first place (asides from the negligable extra 2.3%ish empres (the +1 on pegasus, plus cost) per cost).



most pointless ship of the round (which also happens to be an attack ship by the way) has to go to the drake.

if they had made it a de>cr ship then at least u could use it more vs cathaar and etd (for killing) and would open up the option for zik.... besides.... xan already has a de immunity through the banshee - you could do whatever you wanted with the just-as-pointless ghost.

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Last edited by -Blue Moon-; 29 Jun 2007 at 12:54.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:52   #2
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Re: drake... whats the point?

yeah cool. lets **** up cath even more shall we and give terran a 0 loss cr kill ship. awesome.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:56   #3
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Re: drake... whats the point?

i'll concede as a defense ship it is a useful deterrant for zik de - but would have been just as useful as a cruiser. besides, a wyvern heavy terran wont get much zik attention anyway.

but why use up a slot in an attack fleet??
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:57   #4
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh
yeah cool. lets **** up cath even more shall we and give terran a 0 loss cr kill ship. awesome.
dont be a dick benneh - im not saying we should have done that, i'm saying the drake is a piece-o-crap ship, useful only as emp-flack and to deter ziks if you have few wyvern.

attacking use for this ship is close-to-zero
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:11   #5
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Blue Moon-
seriously... what's the point as an attack ship?

It targets one other ship (asides from itself) - the ghost - which Xan do not need to build because of four reasons:
1) the banshee gives them a DE immunity from zik and ter
2) the banshee is part of their FI pod fleet (and spending resources on the ghost would mean a smaller attack force and 'wasted' resources)
3) the drake shoots before the ghost - and since it has the same apc and dpc as the banshee, it makes building them for terran defense pointless (and why build something for an anti-zik de defense when the banshee gives a DE immunity and shoots before any de ship?)
4) for alliance/cluster defense, the immune-from-harm defending banshee is eta-1 faster than the ghost.
How come banshee is immune from harm? If terrans opt wyverns instead of drakes, the ghost is actually more viable a defence ship than banshee. Why? Take last round - the frigate fleet was way stronger than the fighter fleet, which pretty much vanished on long run. Already lots of xandathrii seem to have rushed for frigates instead of fighters. Ghost is zero-loss against zikonian destroyers, and with the terran destroyers being "less likely to be faced", it's definately a tradeoff. The ghosts will also assist against eitrades battleship fleets, which were very dominant last round, mind you.

Quote:
terran barely drakes also for four reasons:
The fact that the terran destroyer fleet is a bit of pants, I can't argue against. Wyvern got beefed up anyways.


Quote:
most pointless ship of the round (which also happens to be an attack ship by the way) has to go to the drake.
Maybe chimera anyways.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:26   #6
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
How come banshee is immune from harm? If terrans opt wyverns instead of drakes, the ghost is actually more viable a defence ship than banshee. Why? Take last round - the frigate fleet was way stronger than the fighter fleet, which pretty much vanished on long run. Already lots of xandathrii seem to have rushed for frigates instead of fighters. Ghost is zero-loss against zikonian destroyers, and with the terran destroyers being "less likely to be faced", it's definately a tradeoff. The ghosts will also assist against eitrades battleship fleets, which were very dominant last round, mind you.
Look at this logically ...

why would you build 200 ghost over 3600 banshee?

they are the same cost
they deal the same damage
they have the same armour

so what's the differences?

banshee
--
banshee shoots before ANY DE
banshee is zero-loss versus zik
banshee shoots before the Terran Pegasus
banshee means a pegasus heavy player needs 2:1 build in resources
(they need to invest twice (or 2) as much in building pegasus to kill an equal amount of banshee in resources invested after losing half their fleet in the process)
they can be used to defend against both CO>FI freezes (etd/cath) as flack
banshee can be added to FI attack fleet
banshee is one tick faster for defensive uses
the main component of a ter de fleet is the PEGASUS, so the more banshee you have, the less likely you'll ever get ter de inc.

ghost
---
ghost shoots after Terran Drake, but before zik de
ghost is zero-loss versus zik
ghost shoots after drake at the same damage, and same armour as a banshee
ghost can be used as EMP flack against the broker (in combination with the spectre, although the empres per cost isnt significant enough)
it could potentially be used as DE flack against wyvern - but wouldnt be because not only does spectre target the wyvern, but it has +180 apc. in addition, the more spectre you have, the less likely a broker fleet will be tempted to try and squeeze through)
it can only be used for ally defense on the tick it pops up


i think that pretty much proves the banshee is far superior to the ghost.
just 100 drake can be enough to stop a xan from sending 200 ghost. whereas an additional 3600 banshee would hurt you main fleet component - the pegasus, a lot more (and you'd get more kills for your money for shooting first) (edit)
(you need to spend twice as much in ghost to have half your fleet of ghost die before the other half can deal enough damage to kill a similar value of drake)

besides...


this wasn't meant to be more of a 'how crap is the ghost' thread but it was more of a 'how useless is the drake thread'... now we know how intertwined these two things are (since they're the only ships that eachother target = a waste of an attacking ship)..... why the hell would any Xan reading this ever build another ghost?

- tux
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Last edited by -Blue Moon-; 29 Jun 2007 at 14:33.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 18:47   #7
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Fr fleet is wank. I love my fi. Btw tux, wtf are you doing in orbit and make them stop roiding me
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 18:56   #8
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Re: drake... whats the point?

IF you think a drake is useless, how do you think a xan feel about the bloody ghost.
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Unread 30 Jun 2007, 00:08   #9
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Blue Moon-
why the hell would any Xan reading this ever build another ghost?

Because, by saying "drake is useless", you're practically terming ghost superior to banshee. Why? Because ghost is better at defending against zikonians (any ghost is unavoidable casualties, while banshees can be stolen), and also helps against eitrades battleships.

Given, if drake is useleess, hence terrans will not build drakes, hence ghost becomes better in compared to banshee.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 05:31   #10
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Drakes are not bad. I am a Terran with a De roiding fleet. As such I build Drakes, not Wyvern:
- Drakes are flak for my roiding fleet (which is exactly what I need, since I attack mostly Cathaar and Etd, which emp De)
- Drakes are zero-loss alliance defence ships against hostile zik (Wyverns are only usefull in-gal and in-cluster)
- Drakes scare away other Terran De fleets (especially those that don't build enough Drakes)
Drakes do what I need them to do.

I have them any way, so why not use them for attacks as well? It's additional flak. It helps keep other Terran De out of the way. (Important, because Wyvern don't make the required alliance defence eta.) As a whole I find Terran De fleets pretty efficient for attacks.
The problem with Terrans is not their attack fleets. It's the fact that their fleet as a whole is too weak defensively. Too many races can roid Terrans for free.

Last edited by Gerbie2; 2 Jul 2007 at 05:45.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 08:26   #11
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Drakes are not bad. I am a Terran with a De roiding fleet. As such I build Drakes, not Wyvern:
- Drakes are flak for my roiding fleet (which is exactly what I need, since I attack mostly Cathaar and Etd, which emp De)
Had I picked terran, I'd probably be in the same boat with you. A pegasus-drake heavy fleet - there's just so much antibattleship around, and especially rangers are a roundlong pest being fast and unstoppable for terran battleships. Not only protecting you from the EMP blasts of cathaar and eitrades ships, drakes will also be taking part of the hits that would otherwise be given to the precious pegasus when it comes to xandathrii fighters, which overall helps with your self-defence mechanisms.


Quote:
- Drakes are zero-loss alliance defence ships against hostile zik (Wyverns are only usefull in-gal and in-cluster)
A very valid point here. Drakes will also allow fake defending even if you did use them for attacks. The thing that occurs, though, is that with terran having a broad selection of useful defence ships irregardless (harpy and phoenix are both excellent) it will probably also depend on your focus.

Granted, drake is along with banshee a good anti-destroyer that makes it to help your alliance.

Quote:
Drakes scare away other Terran De fleets (especially those that don't build enough Drakes)
Drakes do what I need them to do.
Wyverns do this far more effectively. Granted, in the theoretical world drakes are superior against wyverns when it comes to zikonian fleets, if you don't focus on wyverns: again, if you have split both, you still remain with some zero-loss drakes so it's really indifferent.


Good shit.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 17:04   #12
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Re: drake... whats the point?

What's the point of the Drake? To keep all races consistant with 11 types of ships!
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 19:01   #13
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Re: drake... whats the point?

You have been warned in the past that flaming other users will not be tolerated on this forum. Enjoy your 48 hour ban. -UN

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Unread 6 Jul 2007, 13:00   #14
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Re: drake... whats the point?

drake is zero loss vs zik de
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Unread 6 Jul 2007, 13:37   #15
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Re: drake... whats the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
What's the point of the Drake? To keep all races consistant with 11 types of ships!
* applauds*
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