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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 20:53   #1
Kloopy
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Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

As happens every round, at the start of this one some crafty buggers stole the names of some well known alliances by registering the alliance name before an actual member of the alliance was able to.

What happens is a rouge planet steals the alliance name "1up" for example and all the 1up members apply to join the alliance thinking that one of their HC actually owns the alliance.

What then happens is this rouge planet takes all the coords down from the planets that apply to join. It's a fair bet that most of them are actual 1up members. But finding out the ruler and planet names that are associated with those coordinates, the crafty gits have a member list of 1up for the entire round.

To help the alliances that were affected by the tactic this round we have introduced a new feature onto your preferences screen. If you now browse to your preferences screen you will see at the top a new box to put your "Post Shuffle Ruler and Planet Name" into.

What happens is when we shuffle the universe in tick 36, any planets that have chosen to use this feature will be renamed to their post-shuffle names.

This rename occurs whilst the game is down for the shuffle. In effect, your planet becomes anonymous again. By using this rename featuer your ruler name, planet name and coordinates all change at the same time.

There will be no trace of your planet to the intel that the rouge alliance creators have gained after the shuffle.

Hopefully this fulfils the promise I have to the HCs concerned and that it keeps everyone happy about keeping their identity secret.

Regards,

Kloopy.
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 20:55   #2
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

[20:29] <Kloopy> Crap. I just nearly ran the shuffler on R15. :/

True Story..
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 21:07   #3
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

This is brilliant.
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:19   #4
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

and what happens if 2 people chose the same ruler and/or planet name with this feature?
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:21   #5
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

nice feature kloopy even tho suave has a good point
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:21   #6
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweaker
[20:29] <Kloopy> Crap. I just nearly ran the shuffler on R15. :/

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If it was the AH days he wouldn't have been saying "nearly".
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:25   #7
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
nice feature kloopy even tho suave has a good point

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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:44   #8
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
If it was the AH days he wouldn't have been saying "nearly".
That made me laugh out louder than I've laughed in days! Thanks Bashar! [The wine is cold, I just checked.]

As for the very reasonable question about duplicating ruler/planet names. When you rename your pre-shuffle planet names the system now checks against any post-shuffle names too. Similarly, the signup page checks for both exisiting names and post-shuffle names. You'll probably be surprised to hear that even our admin system doesn't let us duplicate planet or ruler names.

When it comes to duplicating names, you have nothing to worry about. Unless anyone can tell me of a place in the game other than Preferences, Signup or the admin system where planet or ruler names can be changed, then it has all been accounted for.

Hugs and cuddles,

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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 22:52   #9
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

then this is a good feature
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 23:12   #10
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

OKi here it is plain and simple

The pref screen says that my planet/ruler name are already taken, does this mean I have them pre shuffle, so I have em post shuffle?

imho i dont think this feature should have been implemented. If an ally member signed up to an unknown ally w/o first checking on irc, they i say feck him/her for being stupid!

hehe
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 23:19   #11
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Props! Good Idea
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 23:29   #12
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
OKi here it is plain and simple

The pref screen says that my planet/ruler name are already taken, does this mean I have them pre shuffle, so I have em post shuffle?

imho i dont think this feature should have been implemented. If an ally member signed up to an unknown ally w/o first checking on irc, they i say feck him/her for being stupid!

hehe
If you choose not to use this feature you will keep your ruler/planet name from before the shuffle for the rest of the round.

As for being negative towards the idea, if you don't think it's a good one and you find no use for it then you're not being forced to take part in the scheme. Some alliances were compromised for various reasons and we wanted to offer a way for them to regain their anonymity. If you're not affected and don't want to get involved that's fine and it's great that the signup period and your first 36 have gone well, but that's no reason to belittle those alliances that've made what is really a mistake in the game logic than human error.

I do believe that the established alliances should have some protection over their in-game alliance name. I don't think it's right to think it's their members fault for not checking. Everyone who's spent time in the community knows the alliance names that're already used and taking them in-game in simply a malicious act.

Hopefully in future rounds we can see some way for alliance HCs to tie an alliance name to their email address from one round to the next to ensure that noone else can steal their name and take their member list in the new round.

Kloopy.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 02:25   #13
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

ok, this is a cool idea, but if i have the ruler name

fingers of planetarion pre shuffle and have
jarrod of australia for post shuffle

does that mean that other people can have fingers of planetarion for their post shuffle, or does the system just see it as already taken therefore that name cant be used till its completely gone from the data base.?

otherwise i like the idea
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 07:52   #14
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Mmm, eventhough this is a nice feature for those pple not smart enough to actually pm their HC with the coords to get the confirmation they've signed up to the right alliance or the HC's checking the coords in pm on IRC to make sure the person is who he claims to be.

BUT, it doesn't solve the core problem that if, let's say me and my buddies (yeah I know, it already sounds unbelievable), have it in for 1up and decide to take the name 1up and all possible variations on it ... Sure you can change name if you accidently thought it was the "real" alliance but after the shuffle, 1up is still fked cause they'll need to find a different ingame tag (which all in all isn't a disaster, but worse enough to annoy some pple) ...

Then again, who are we to say the first person who chose the tag 1up is not allowed to use it ... (yes I'm still annoyed some inactive fker owns #Angels and logs in once a month to make sure the channel doesn't dissapear !!).

rgds Kj
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 07:58   #15
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by fingers
ok, this is a cool idea, but if i have the ruler name

fingers of planetarion pre shuffle and have
jarrod of australia for post shuffle

does that mean that other people can have fingers of planetarion for their post shuffle, or does the system just see it as already taken therefore that name cant be used till its completely gone from the data base.?

otherwise i like the idea
If you're called Fingers of Planetarion before the shuffle, it is deemed already taken and noone can use it as their post-shuffle name. Thus, you can be sure that noone will steal you're pre-shuffle name after the shuffle.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 08:00   #16
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Mmm, eventhough this is a nice feature for those pple not smart enough to actually pm their HC with the coords to get the confirmation they've signed up to the right alliance or the HC's checking the coords in pm on IRC to make sure the person is who he claims to be.

BUT, it doesn't solve the core problem that if, let's say me and my buddies (yeah I know, it already sounds unbelievable), have it in for 1up and decide to take the name 1up and all possible variations on it ... Sure you can change name if you accidently thought it was the "real" alliance but after the shuffle, 1up is still fked cause they'll need to find a different ingame tag (which all in all isn't a disaster, but worse enough to annoy some pple) ...

Then again, who are we to say the first person who chose the tag 1up is not allowed to use it ... (yes I'm still annoyed some inactive fker owns #Angels and logs in once a month to make sure the channel doesn't dissapear !!).

rgds Kj
It's not a well publicised service but I've been giving the proper alliance name to the HCs of the real alliance if their name has been stolen. The way I do this is by requiring the owner (500 access) of the public alliance channel for the alliance on NetGamers IRC. If they are logged in and I know their public channel belongs to the alliance I'll kick out the rogue alliance name theif and give the alliance back to the correct people.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 08:00   #17
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

First of all I am choosing Jarrod of australia!!! so don't bother. Second of all the brilliant idea was stealing the allainces name to begin with. Third of all.....i shhould probaly drink some water before going to bed....... I'll fight ya!
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 08:22   #18
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Going off topic slightly, if you're referring to drink I know why you've got a headache hangover. I learnt a load about alcohol this week on a program on BBC3 here in the UK.

Basically, alcohol is a diuretic which means your body gets rid of more water than it takes in whilst you're drinking alcohol based drinks. Because of this your body gets dehydrated and since your brain has lots of water in it, your brain looses water. As you know from a plant you starve of water it wilts and gets smaller which is all down to the cell level. Just like the leaf, your brain shinks and shivels slightly. Finally, due to it's smaller size the brain is causing unusual stress and strain on the tendons that link it to your skull. Which is where the hangover headache comes from.

So drinking a couple of pints of water before you go to bed is the best way to a) avoid the hangover headache and b) needed the loo as soon as you wake up! Fascinating isn't it!
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 08:46   #19
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

post-shuffle names can be found out via the PA dumps. just compare roids/score/value before and after the shuffle. unless there are many planets in the same score/value/roid range.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 08:52   #20
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
It's not a well publicised service but I've been giving the proper alliance name to the HCs of the real alliance if their name has been stolen. The way I do this is by requiring the owner (500 access) of the public alliance channel for the alliance on NetGamers IRC. If they are logged in and I know their public channel belongs to the alliance I'll kick out the rogue alliance name theif and give the alliance back to the correct people.
Can the same be done for IRC channels?
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 09:18   #21
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Can the same be done for IRC channels?
you would have to ask cservice about that, but i believe it is possible
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 09:19   #22
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
Going off topic slightly, if you're referring to drink I know why you've got a headache hangover. I learnt a load about alcohol this week on a program on BBC3 here in the UK.

Basically, alcohol is a diuretic which means your body gets rid of more water than it takes in whilst you're drinking alcohol based drinks. Because of this your body gets dehydrated and since your brain has lots of water in it, your brain looses water. As you know from a plant you starve of water it wilts and gets smaller which is all down to the cell level. Just like the leaf, your brain shinks and shivels slightly. Finally, due to it's smaller size the brain is causing unusual stress and strain on the tendons that link it to your skull. Which is where the hangover headache comes from.

So drinking a couple of pints of water before you go to bed is the best way to a) avoid the hangover headache and b) needed the loo as soon as you wake up! Fascinating isn't it!
yea, when i get in from a night out i always try to drink a pint of water before i goto sleep
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 09:39   #23
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

I always try to, often fail miserably though.

Put a pint of Strongbow in front of me and I could drink it with ease (unless I'm completely battered) but put a pint of healthy water in front of me and it's like drinking petrol
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 10:01   #24
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

I always thought it was the water around the brain that was lost so the brain swells up and that caused the headache. The hangover was due to the lack of water in the body making you feel like sh*t. Trying to remember to drink water before you go to bed is really hard no matter how much it'll help. You normally end up trashing the kitchen trying to find a glass.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 10:05   #25
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
you would have to ask cservice about that, but i believe it is possible
Already tried that and got the expected answer (did it half a year ago) ...
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 10:07   #26
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by raist
I always thought it was the water around the brain that was lost so the brain swells up and that caused the headache. The hangover was due to the lack of water in the body making you feel like sh*t. Trying to remember to drink water before you go to bed is really hard no matter how much it'll help. You normally end up trashing the kitchen trying to find a glass.
that is if you reach the kitchen. My experience tells me when being completely wasted, the kitchen isn't where it used to be, ... infact nothing is
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 10:38   #27
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernhard72
post-shuffle names can be found out via the PA dumps. just compare roids/score/value before and after the shuffle. unless there are many planets in the same score/value/roid range.
People seem to have missed this important comment
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 10:47   #28
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

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Originally Posted by sniborp
People seem to have missed this important comment
No, pple read it and decided not to reply on it untill Kloopy does cause we all can't do jack all about it nway

Nonetheless the remark of this PA dump is quite valid.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 11:34   #29
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Good point, yes. What about disabling the dumps at tick 24 until after the shuffle? Bearing in mind of course the dumps are a privelege not a right and that they're not overly useful until people need to find targets for attacks, which is well after tick 36.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 11:37   #30
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

kjel that channel existed before the pa alliance did tho :P

and kloopy why start dumps at all first 36 ticks?:P (atleast why make dumps public?) might aswell keep em on a secret place incase something DOES go wrong :P
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:07   #31
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

We have entire database backups for the situation where something goes wrong, we never use the public dumps as a contingency as they simply don't contain enough information for us to reconstruct the game from after a problem.

So it's simply about stopping the dump which is easier than restricting access to it for the time being. Lets hear everyone's opinions. Do we stop the dumps for the entire first 36 ticks or just for a bit of it?

Personally I think I'd vote for one dump in tick 1 as this allows all the tool sites to get a fresh view of all the planets in the Universe at the start rather than displaying last rounds (or the speedgame) information.

What do you think?

[Edit: Thanks for pointing that out, cypher]
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:08   #32
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
kjel that channel existed before the pa alliance did tho :P

and kloopy why start dumps at all first 36 ticks?:P (atleast why make dumps public?) might aswell keep em on a secret place incase something DOES go wrong :P
Well, I don't care about that really. I think an alliance has the right to have his own channel and if the channel is regged by an inactive fker who logs in once a month then netgamers should be able to step in.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:16   #33
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
We have entire database backups for the situation where something goes wrong, we never use the public dumps as a contingency as they simply don't contain enough information for us to reconstruct the game from after a problem.

So it's simply about stopping the dump which is easier than restricting access to it for the time being. Lets hear everyone's opinions. Do we stop the ticks for the entire first 36 ticks or just for a bit of it?

Personally I think I'd vote for one dump in tick 1 as this allows all the tool sites to get a fresh view of all the planets in the Universe at the start rather than displaying last rounds (or the speedgame) information.

What do you think?
yea, if you let sites get 1 or 2 dumps right at the beginning that can be used to "prepare" sites, then turn the dumps off till after the shuffle.

Might be a good idea if tool sites administrators could reply here to give their opinions, as to why they might want all the dumps.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:16   #34
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Well, I don't care about that really. I think an alliance has the right to have his own channel and if the channel is regged by an inactive fker who logs in once a month then netgamers should be able to step in.
so like I do an alliance called "ngoldies" tomorrow and they have to hand out that channel?

sure
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:18   #35
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I always try to, often fail miserably though.

Put a pint of Strongbow in front of me and I could drink it with ease (unless I'm completely battered) but put a pint of healthy water in front of me and it's like drinking petrol
I get the same problem

After a night out drinking a pint of water before bed often becomes a low priority task when I get home, so I forgot about it till the morning when I have a splitting headache
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:19   #36
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Well, I don't care about that really. I think an alliance has the right to have his own channel and if the channel is regged by an inactive fker who logs in once a month then netgamers should be able to step in.
There did use to be another alliance called Angels back in the "early" days
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:56   #37
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Wouldn't it also be wise to restrict registration of certain names to known HC?
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 12:58   #38
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

I believe that's what I said in the original post, Shyne.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 13:12   #39
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy

So it's simply about stopping the dump which is easier than restricting access to it for the time being. Lets hear everyone's opinions. Do we stop the ticks for the entire first 36 ticks or just for a bit of it?
personally i think just stopping dumps would be enough but i guess this option would get me some more sleep :P

anyways first 2 ticks or so might be nice yeah to allow everyone to get their sites working proper indeed...stop it then... it won't contain really usefull info anyways :P
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 13:18   #40
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Sorry Kloopy, I can't actually read you know...
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 13:30   #41
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
personally i think just stopping dumps would be enough but i guess this option would get me some more sleep :P

anyways first 2 ticks or so might be nice yeah to allow everyone to get their sites working proper indeed...stop it then... it won't contain really usefull info anyways :P
Stop the dumps, I have just enough ticks as is to make sure i dont miss res before i go to work
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 13:59   #42
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Ok, unless anyone gives a good reason why not by 10pm GMT tonight, I'll stop the dumps after the second tick has completed.

Knowing me, someone will have to remind me in tick 36 to reenable them though!
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 14:01   #43
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by suave
so like I do an alliance called "ngoldies" tomorrow and they have to hand out that channel?

sure
If that channel has 0 pple in 29 days a month then yes.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 14:04   #44
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
Ok, unless anyone gives a good reason why not by 10pm GMT tonight, I'll stop the dumps after the second tick has completed.

Knowing me, someone will have to remind me in tick 36 to reenable them though!
There are enough geeks around to remind you, Kloopy
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 16:33   #45
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
If you choose not to use this feature you will keep your ruler/planet name from before the shuffle for the rest of the round.

As for being negative towards the idea, if you don't think it's a good one and you find no use for it then you're not being forced to take part in the scheme. Some alliances were compromised for various reasons and we wanted to offer a way for them to regain their anonymity. If you're not affected and don't want to get involved that's fine and it's great that the signup period and your first 36 have gone well, but that's no reason to belittle those alliances that've made what is really a mistake in the game logic than human error.
I still dont see the point in making this feature available, when there are more pressing things that need to implemented into the game.

Maybe you could could make an application form for an alliance name, that has to be pre-apporved by pa team before being given out. Then the onus is on you, rather than malicious members.

How long did this take to implement? Were pa resources moved from other things to this fine example of time wasted?

I am also allowed to be negative as you so put it. But I think that is the incorrect word to use. I feel that the correct word is positive! There are always two sides to to anything. It just really depends on your stance to figure out who is negative and who is positive. I think your negative so hah!

tsm
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 16:50   #46
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
I still dont see the point in making this feature available, when there are more pressing things that need to implemented into the game.

Maybe you could could make an application form for an alliance name, that has to be pre-apporved by pa team before being given out. Then the onus is on you, rather than malicious members.

How long did this take to implement? Were pa resources moved from other things to this fine example of time wasted?

I am also allowed to be negative as you so put it. But I think that is the incorrect word to use. I feel that the correct word is positive! There are always two sides to to anything. It just really depends on your stance to figure out who is negative and who is positive. I think your negative so hah!

tsm
i'd have thought it didn't take him long at all, its only a minor db change, a little form and a minor shuffle change
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 17:02   #47
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

i agree. its a simple matter to set up a temporary table to track the requested names and to use them in the shuffler, as Kal said.
Plus it makes people happy. anything which does that can only be a good thing, surely?

as for 'wasted resources' , r15 is already coded pretty much. i cant imagine any resources were 'wasted' on this
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 17:08   #48
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
i agree. its a simple matter to set up a temporary table to track the requested names and to use them in the shuffler, as Kal said.
Plus it makes people happy. anything which does that can only be a good thing, surely?

as for 'wasted resources' , r15 is already coded pretty much. i cant imagine any resources were 'wasted' on this
Kloopy had to stop drinking to do it and MAY have spilt some beer
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 17:10   #49
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
I still dont see the point in making this feature available, when there are more pressing things that need to implemented into the game.

Maybe you could could make an application form for an alliance name, that has to be pre-apporved by pa team before being given out. Then the onus is on you, rather than malicious members.

How long did this take to implement? Were pa resources moved from other things to this fine example of time wasted?

I am also allowed to be negative as you so put it. But I think that is the incorrect word to use. I feel that the correct word is positive! There are always two sides to to anything. It just really depends on your stance to figure out who is negative and who is positive. I think your negative so hah!

tsm
Beacuse you find no use in a feature doesn't mean it was a waste of time or resource in development. Many people have said they will use the feature. 104 planets have already setup their post-shuffle names and we've still got 41 hours until the shuffle.

Besides, your suggestion of an alternative solution to the problem would take time to implement aswell. To fix this problem, and I don't think you're saying it isn't one, we needed to do something. And putting the time into a fix like I have is an investment. It will save me alot of time in future rounds having to manually hack the database when something like this happens to an alliance.

Oh, and argument accepted about being negative. I think it's healthy that some people question the work we do. If everyone let us get on with the things we wanted the game would end up in tatters. We need people to be constructively critical of our work.
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Unread 28 Oct 2005, 17:12   #50
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Re: Post-Shuffle Ruler and Planet Names

As for the dumps issue. My current plan is to dump the first 2 ticks of all dump files. Then I will stop the planet and galaxy dumps from tick 3 to tick 36 inclusive. The alliance dump will continue throughout.

Can anyone see any flaws in this or does anyone have any suggestion for further change to the plan?
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