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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 02:53   #1
Wishmaster
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Bug Abuse

There will be a rollback to a tick before the issues occured (22:30 db backup is likely), and ticks will resume 24 hours after the time of the db backup so that peoples timezone based activity is not affected.
Fleets will NOT be recalled

Reason for this as u may know :

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...n_id=204933339

I ask myself HOW this could be possible in a game / a code which is as old as PA is
- Why the f*ck did he abuse it, when he knew he would get caught. And knew he would ruin alot for so many playing.
- Did he have uncovered incs himself when he did it? Did he do it to make pa team do rollback?
- What will his alliance Reunion do about it?
- What will pa team do?

Kinda pissed atm, as a lot of work done by so many for no use... hoped shit like this belonged to the past.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 03:03   #2
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Re: Bug Abuse

oh well, there are some ppl and then there are some.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 03:04   #3
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Re: Bug Abuse

It could have been a simple input mistake while tabbing through the fields of the input form, hitting the ^ accidentally once instead of a 1 or Tab (on german keyboards that would be possible at least).

So for example: instead of moving 105 ships it could have been 10^5 ships which he entered, leading to a movement of 100000 ships instead of 105.

Bad attempt of propaganda, imho. And then even on the wrong forum.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 03:33   #4
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I ask myself HOW this could be possible in a game / a code which is as old as PA is
PA's code isnt actually all that old. Also, there were a significant number of small changes made for this round which obviously has the potential to create niggling bugs and wierd things to happen.

I'm not saying the two are linked - far from it - but the code is, in some places at the very least, new.

Quote:
- Why the f*ck did he abuse it, when he knew he would get caught. And knew he would ruin alot for so many playing.
After a chat in #support, i believe that the original instance was pure unintentional error. Then he explored the bug to find out whether it was actually a bug - and then he came straight to us. This is not cheating. put simply, in my opinion*;
finding bug and immediately reporting it = legit
finding bug and not reporting it = cheating
exploiting bug found by someone else = cheating

* I am not a MH, however not only does the above make sense it does largely conform to the EULA as i remember it atm.

If, by 'ruining it' you mean that you can no longer abuse the bug to gain advantage, then imo that's a superb outcome. If you mean 'ruining it' by making the round last a day longer, i'm not overly concerned. The saying involving storms and teacups springs to mind.

Tbh, ideally a game without bugs would be great. Obviously, this is not an ideal world (see sig ), and thus the next best thing are proceedures to identify and contain the damage, fix the problem, and move on.

Quote:
- Did he have uncovered incs himself when he did it? Did he do it to make pa team do rollback?
I do not believe he was under attack at the time. The issue of a rollback was not brought up untill i had a chat to Kal (in pm) and mentioned that anyone in #support at the time would know how to magically boost their fleet. I then mentioned that small increased would be difficult to detect and it would be better to roll back to tick 99. As it was, tick 98 was the last secure dump, so that's what is happening.

I suggested the rollback. Neg rep me if you want - i dont particularly care - but i am confident in my decision to reccomend it. Imo, it would be far worse if we just let people crash their fleets into magically massive fleets.

Quote:
- What will his alliance Reunion do about it?
I dunno. Sleep, like all the other alliances i suppose. I actually thought the individual was 1up, but i am not renowned for my political information :\

Quote:
- What will pa team do?
You pasted the answer to this question at the start of your post. The error will be corrected, and life will move on.
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Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 25 Jul 2005 at 03:48. Reason: Some points clarified for the benefit of cynnical people who troll this forum.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 03:51   #5
Wishmaster
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Re: Bug Abuse

Thx for clearing up things for me Ultimate Newbie.

--

And it wasnt an attempt of propaganda,Heartless. I -together with many others I guess- wanted to know what had happened. What caused it all.

And I cant c what section it should be posted on if not PD.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 08:30   #6
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Re: Bug Abuse

as long as it was reported its all good
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:10   #7
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Re: Bug Abuse

Well what the f**k am I supposed to do at work now?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:19   #8
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga
Well what the f**k am I supposed to do at work now?
Work?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:24   #9
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Work?
Don't be silly. If they actually want me to work they better start paying me a decent pay.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:29   #10
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Re: Bug Abuse

porn?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:33   #11
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Work?
The job I do requires about 0.000004% of my brain power and that is doing it to an excellent standard! The restof my brain needs to be occupied by something!
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 09:51   #12
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Re: Bug Abuse

Hey ginga,

in the same boat, I may actually have to do some work! ffs

tsm
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 10:15   #13
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga
The job I do requires about 0.000004% of my brain power and that is doing it to an excellent standard! The restof my brain needs to be occupied by something!
Im sure I can find you some work assignments if you want Ginga
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 10:45   #14
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Registration fails

I presume this is the reason for not being able to register a new account at this time? When I try and sign up I get redirected to the closed page telling me that the game is only accessible by the administrators.

I want something to do at work as well =)
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 11:36   #15
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Re: Bug Abuse

If he was indeed intending to abuse the bug, he would not have ordered 16k sents. Im glad this happened, so that noone that would actually abuse this found out first(that could ruin alot more for all of us).

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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 11:39   #16
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Re: Bug Abuse

I was so looking forward to 10k levs.....
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 11:48   #17
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
If he was indeed intending to abuse the bug, he would not have ordered 16k sents. Im glad this happened, so that noone that would actually abuse this found out first(that could ruin alot more for all of us).

-Jonas-
Ordering such a large number of ships is imho not a clear sign that it wasnt an attempt to cheat. After all theres the cheating for long term benifit where small amounts of ships are to be built so no-one notices and then theres the big obvious cheat that you go as far as reporting ti get the ticks stopped to help with incoming. Now Kal says he himself didnt have incoming so it was not for direct personal gain but i'm personally not ruling out the fact this wasnt done to save an alliance mates skin
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 12:08   #18
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Re: Bug Abuse

not saying it's possible to have been an attempt to save an alliance m8, but don't you think anyone with half a brain and the intention to cheat would know, that if he abused a bug he found to get himself a fleet that would make him atleast 3 times bigger then any other planet in the game... he would get caught instantly and have his planet closed and his round stopped (aasuming he wouldn't be able to signup a new account ofc :P).

Personally i think it would be stupid to assume he was attempting to abuse a bug for whatever reason, as its far to easy to get caught in the way it was done.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 12:20   #19
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Now Kal says he himself didnt have incoming so it was for direct personal gain
Huh? How can building ships whilst not having any incoming lead to personal gain? That's a bit silly, isnt it? (or am i just missing your point?)

Quote:
but i'm personally not ruling out the fact this wasnt done to save an alliance mates skin
Well, i have to admit that is possible. However, it is my opinion that it is unlikey, as if you knew you had an ace up your sleeve like this, wouldnt you wait untill a point when it was really crucial for the survival of your alliance and then use it? rather than just saving one or two people from the random incoming that normally happens at the start of a round when intel is poor and most people dont know who eachother are?

That makes alot more sense to me. :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
not saying it's possible to have been an attempt to save an alliance m8, but don't you think anyone with half a brain and the intention to cheat would know, that if he abused a bug he found to get himself a fleet that would make him atleast 3 times bigger then any other planet in the game... he would get caught instantly and have his planet closed and his round stopped (aasuming he wouldn't be able to signup a new account ofc :P).
lol, here i go again wandows - criticising you .

What Wakey meant was, if the individual knew that their bug would have to cause the ticker to stop, or even a rollback, this would benefit a friend who may be under attack at the time as it would provide more hours to get people online to organise defence, even if there are no additional ticks.

So, it was a stalling tactic.

I dont think this is the case as;
1) I rang Kal to turn off the ticks - i realised fairly early on that it was going to be a big problem even prior to people 'demanding' (heh) ticks to be stopped.
2) I suggested that there be a rollback to re-set people's fleets. The individual in question wasnt aware any earlier than everyone else that a rollback was to occur.
3) I would have thought that holding onto such a trump card till a more adventageous time would have potentially be more benefical for the individual's alliance* - rather than expending it during such an early stage.

*was it actually Reunion?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 12:34   #20
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
And it wasnt an attempt of propaganda,Heartless. I -together with many others I guess- wanted to know what had happened. What caused it all.

And I cant c what section it should be posted on if not PD.
If you would have left out the Reunion part I would believe you. That's the thing which was totally unnecessary and the thing to be considered as propaganda linked to an alliance you probably do not consider friendly (I have no clue about politics this round); also that is the thing that would have made more sense on AD, as it is the part about something connected to an alliance which you would surely .

Forgive me for any crap english in this post, I just woke up after a few lovely hours of sleep.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:23   #21
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Re: Bug Abuse

just one question: everyone seems to assume that it's safe to rollback to the tick before the bug was reported. how can you be sure that noone else found it earlier and used it to his own benefit in a non-obvious way?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:38   #22
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
just one question: everyone seems to assume that it's safe to rollback to the tick before the bug was reported. how can you be sure that noone else found it earlier and used it to his own benefit in a non-obvious way?
A non-obvious way would mean to order a small surplus once in a while - it won't have a big effect on the game in the long run (if the bug gets fixed that is). Might have happened - but is not critical for the game at all.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:43   #23
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Re: Bug Abuse

Very nice that this has been reported and fixed, on a personal level I find it commendable that the bug was found and reported with haste.

However the Roll back has left me somewhat perplexed, I have lost all my resources, which was a bit more than the 2 ticks worth ?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:44   #24
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Re: Bug Abuse

the rollback has not been done yet at all, you'll get your resources back no worries
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:46   #25
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
the rollback has not been done yet at all, you'll get your resources back no worries
then why are my resources at zero ?

and where have the 3 roids I initiated at tick 100 gone?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:51   #26
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
*was it actually Reunion?
Pilkara seems to suggest so, could possibly have been wolfpack if none of their other members gained score since pilkara reset for the day or something..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
then why are my resources at zero ?

and where have the 3 roids I initiated at tick 100 gone?
your resources are at 0 to stop you from exploiting the bug that is currently at large, is my guess...or maybe to stop people scanning incs to arrange def for fleets that will be force to roll back a few ticks and allow allis a chance to def.

you will lose the 3 roids you inited too but you will get the cash back, i think (well i hope so as i inited 19 roids at tick 101 or so)
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 13:58   #27
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
If you would have left out the Reunion part I would believe you. That's the thing which was totally unnecessary and the thing to be considered as propaganda linked to an alliance you probably do not consider friendly (I have no clue about politics this round); also that is the thing that would have made more sense on AD, as it is the part about something connected to an alliance which you would surely .

Forgive me for any crap english in this post, I just woke up after a few lovely hours of sleep.
i dont see this as propaganda, it wasnt posted by 1up (just kidding)

but anyways some people just assume innocent until proven guilty...some just think the worst of people...thats not propaganda to think the guy did this for some kind of gain..although now the facts are known i agree with ultimate, seems innocent to me.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 14:21   #28
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
then why are my resources at zero ?
You resources are at 0 to prevent people from exiling themselves into new gals, grabbing their defence information and moving on - only to be transported back to where they were for the rollback (and the rest of the round).

Quote:
and where have the 3 roids I initiated at tick 100 gone?
Well, if your planet it rolled back to tick 98, then you havent initiated those 3 roids yet.

When you are rolled back, your planet will be exactly the same as it was at tick 98. That's the whole point of doing a rollback. So, if you were saving millions of resources to build CR, you will still have a large majority of those resources. In your case, Judge, you will still have the resources that you used to initiate those 3 roids.

Does that make sense?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 14:22   #29
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
If you would have left out the Reunion part I would believe you. That's the thing which was totally unnecessary and the thing to be considered as propaganda linked to an alliance you probably do not consider friendly (I have no clue about politics this round); also that is the thing that would have made more sense on AD, as it is the part about something connected to an alliance which you would surely .

Forgive me for any crap english in this post, I just woke up after a few lovely hours of sleep.
I saw it was reunion cause of their sudden boost in average score.

Maybe I shouldnt added it,as it was no attempt of propaganda, and I c now that it didnt have anything to do in a post on PD.

sry.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 14:23   #30
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Re: Bug Abuse

the reason for the rollback is that as soon as the bug got out into the public domain everyone started playing around with it - hence it would be entirly unfair not to have a rollback.

i do not believe there was any intentional bug abuse becuase he reported his findings straightaway
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 14:42   #31
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
H

lol, here i go again wandows - criticising you .
it's 'correcting' me hun

anyway, i know there could be scenario's that would put it in the cheating group, but any cheating this early in the game for whatever reason and so obvious isn't helping that much anyway (not the way he did atleast). Suppose he did it to save his alliance from some incoming, with a rollback (a result that could have been known to happen) this wouldn't have much effect as the incoming would come the upcoming night again anyway (maybe from/on different planets, but it would come never the less).

Its extremely unlikely to use such a bug to that extent for the reason to stop some incoming early in the round when everything (universe ranking wise) can and willl easily change. Therefor its a unneeded accusation in the direction of the person/alliance responsible for it, as i doubt they would be stupid enough to risk a bad reputation as a new alliance without it helping them 1 bit (apart from maybe not losing a few hundred roids worst case).
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 14:58   #32
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Re: Bug Abuse

I suppose we should just be glad the bug was found sooner rather than later.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 15:00   #33
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferti
I suppose we should just be glad the bug was found ...
That should be the 'real' post
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 20:00   #34
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Re: Bug Abuse

i would just like to say in my defence at first my ships were -97k which is why the ticker automaticly stopped and in an attempt to recreate the the issue for kal i made lots of sents.

i dont cheat at pa and think anyone who would a abuse this kind of thing is nubj!

oh and i woud appricate it if people would stop with the abuse pm's on netgamers
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 20:28   #35
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
You resources are at 0 to prevent people from exiling themselves into new gals, grabbing their defence information and moving on - only to be transported back to where they were for the rollback (and the rest of the round).
Nice thinking
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 03:54   #36
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
You resources are at 0 to prevent people from exiling themselves into new gals, grabbing their defence information and moving on - only to be transported back to where they were for the rollback (and the rest of the round).
Actually you could still have done that by cancelling your current production queue.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 04:08   #37
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Actually you could still have done that by cancelling your current production queue.
What?
What does production have to do with exile?

Oh, and galaxy fund was reduced to 0 as well to stop galaxy exiles. heh.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 04:16   #38
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
What?
What does production have to do with exile?.
Cancel production. Get res. Exile.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 04:23   #39
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Re: Bug Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRat
Cancel production. Get res. Exile.
Ah. Damn
PA players are too smart for me
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