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Unread 13 Nov 2007, 22:58   #1
Monroe
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The player base votes ... Death to ETD

After 5 rounds of 5 races, the player base seems to be voting against having ETD as a fifth race. For the last two rounds ETD has been by far the least chosen race, and in the two rounds prior to that (r21 and r22) the main reason ETD seems to have faired well is because the stats were imbalanced making them the best race overall. In the past when cath or terran have been the worst races due to imbalanced stats they have still managed to have significant percentages of the total, because some players simply loved the race and would play them no matter how bad the stats. This doesn't seem to be the case with etd, when the etd stats are not great, no one wants to play them. So since the player base has clearly not become enamored with the ETD race, I would suggest we should remove the 5th race unless a real 5th race advantage can be made, rather then the mishmash of other race's advantages that ETD is now.
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Unread 13 Nov 2007, 23:06   #2
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

maybe we should give ETD another 15 rounds like the other races had to gain some fanboys.

Dont force changes that just take a lil more time - and we all know thats what PA is about!
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Unread 13 Nov 2007, 23:22   #3
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

This is one of the rare occasions I agree with Monroe. I'd even take it one step further and remove Cathaar as well, in the interest of balancing stats (3 races, 6 classes, 6 pods). Why Cathaar and not one of the others? Because it's fundamentally flawed; small Cath players get raped every night, big ones are complete fortresses. Instead of EMP being the sole property of 1 race, I'd divide it amongst the remaining 3 races, if only because the existence of EMP does enable strategies which kill, cloak and steal ships don't.
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Unread 13 Nov 2007, 23:55   #4
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
maybe we should give ETD another 15 rounds like the other races had to gain some fanboys.

Dont force changes that just take a lil more time - and we all know thats what PA is about!
How much is a little more time? 5 rounds is over a year, how much more time do people need to warm up to etd? Another year? Two years? Where do you draw the line? Sure ETD hasn't been around as long as the other races, but if the race had fundamental appeal it would have garnered a bigger support base then it has.
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 00:14   #5
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

oh i dont mind if you remove 2-3 races - just saying that every change or development in PA takes ages and that the 5th race was a kinda major step in development and i am not sure that they want to give that up just like that.

you could get the feeling that we move backwards instead of forward
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 00:53   #6
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

From what I gather, Etd hasn't been chosen much for the last two rounds because it's been useless. Losetraides, you might say. In its first two rounds, Etd was wintraides which is why it was popular.


A sixth race has been proposed, however, which may make stats creation easier at least.
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 07:49   #7
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

I agree with mz, have only 3 races and divide emp between them. And while you are at it could also divide steal and cloak between them. The other option, 6 races, would also have equal number of different class pod fleets but at the same time it would add so much more complexity in the relations between different races that I don't think that would be a viable option for the sake of balancing the stats.

Etd itself never brought anything new into the game, it was just an artificial combination of the four other races bringing unnecessary complexity to stats creation. In my opinion if there's a 'need' to have 5 or even 6 races at least have the decency to bring in proper new attributes on the side of the old ones: kill, emp, cloaking and steal. And no, salvage bonus is not such an attribute.
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 08:55   #8
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=192268
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 10:35   #9
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

I almost referred to jer's stats but thought that'd be giving too much credit to him
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 15:05   #10
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Cathaar delenda est!!!!
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 15:54   #11
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Just a thought but how about makeing the 5th race a choice for unpaid accounts only prehaps say that the price of the ships are cheap to start off with and eaach time you order the price goes up so at the start of the round its a bit more even but later on in the game it wouldnt be an advantage.

p.s not sure if this sort of idea has been suggested b4 just incase any1 wanted 2 flame
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 19:23   #12
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

I would not remove ETD as I find it interesting to have a 5th race.

The advantages should be reconsidered tho. (Not only trading but maybe something else, too?)
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 19:45   #13
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Having a 5th race might be interesting, but at this moment there is no added value whatsoever to the game by this race. So, I say remove them.

With respect to Cath I agree with Mz too, though I see EMP not divided among Xan and Ter. I do see them added to Zik, as Zik has the advantage of steal ships, but only at very high costs. First die, then steal due to init. This adding of EMP to Zik also has as consequence that Zik cannot steal all class ships which diminishes their advantage to equal standards of advantage in comparison to the other races.

In this way all the three races will have their own advantage: Ter of extra armour, Xan of cloak and low init, and Zik of EMP 'n steal.
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Unread 14 Nov 2007, 21:59   #14
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Though this was not the original intent of the thread, on the issue of caths, another possibility would be to change how EMP ships work. Perhaps continue to have T1 be EMP but allow T2 or T3 to be normal. This would allow them to both freeze and kill. If on top of that T2 and T3s were altered to have lower initiatives then T1 it might lead to a much more balanced race. The same thing could be done with zik stealing, so T1 it steals, T2 and T3 it shoots like normal.

There are many clever things that could be attempted with the reintroduction of multiclass targeting, and I would prefer to see them attempted before the 4 distinct races are removed.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 01:13   #15
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Fair enough. In that way you could make the stats more in balance, I agree.

Remains that I think it is time to remove ETD. The intention of bringing in was sound, though now it seems to be that the race brings more difficulties than pleasures.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 02:28   #16
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

I prefer the game to move forward rather than backward. This 5th race is not good enough ? improve it.
There was this idea floating of making the Etd a subvert race...
There is also the idea of giving T2 and T3 other capacities than T1 (T1: emp/T2: kill/T3: steal)...
If it's just a matter of having more Etd, make it the default race: a bit more difficult to play but you can experience every aspect of combat and pick up another race more suited to you the next round.
If Terrans hadn't been the default race I'm sure we would have seen very few in some of the previous rounds.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 09:19   #17
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

First, more is not always better man.
Second, changing types and inits is a bad idea.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 11:11   #18
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Membrivio

In this way all the three races will have their own advantage: Ter of extra armour, Xan of cloak and low init, and Zik of EMP 'n steal.

xan low init?

Don't make me laugh....



LOL


to late....
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 11:18   #19
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
Just a thought but how about makeing the 5th race a choice for unpaid accounts only prehaps say that the price of the ships are cheap to start off with and eaach time you order the price goes up so at the start of the round its a bit more even but later on in the game it wouldnt be an advantage.

p.s not sure if this sort of idea has been suggested b4 just incase any1 wanted 2 flame

why it wouldnt work ..



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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 16:58   #20
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I prefer the game to move forward rather than backward. This 5th race is not good enough ? improve it.
I'm not against a 5th race, but I think the direction that has been taken for ETD has been voted down by the player base, and I have yet to see a creative alternative that I feel would really be a great 5th race. So until that idea for a 5th race makes the stage I think it makes sense to scrap the 5th race for now, and the player base seems to agree.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 17:20   #21
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I'm not against a 5th race, but I think the direction that has been taken for ETD has been voted down by the player base, and I have yet to see a creative alternative that I feel would really be a great 5th race. So until that idea for a 5th race makes the stage I think it makes sense to scrap the 5th race for now, and the player base seems to agree.
I'm sorry, but what vote?
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 17:42   #22
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Planetarion
Terran 439(28%)
Cathaar 256(16%)
Xandathrii 407(26%)
Zikonian 362(23%)
Eitraides 89(5%)
That one.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 19:02   #23
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Except that's not a vote on the races, it's a vote on the stats. I'm sure you understand the difference.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 20:15   #24
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Compare Cathaar and Eitraides, arguably both bad choices this round. For that matter, check out any bad choice during the last few rounds. I haven't seen numbers go this low since the first time I played. While yes, you're right that ingame choices don't mean everything, they can be a pretty decent indicator that something is up.
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Unread 15 Nov 2007, 22:20   #25
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Except that's not a vote on the races, it's a vote on the stats. I'm sure you understand the difference.
It is in fact a vote on race as Mzyxptlk point's out, the number of people have chosen etd is far below that of any other race, and the etd stats are not THAT bad. What it tells me is that the race bonus that etd gets does not hold people's interest. The race bonus that every other race has (cloak, emp, stealing, massive armor) appeals to a certain subset of the players in the game, no matter how bad the stats. The race bonus that etd has, (all of the above) does not seem to hold player's interest. Honestly I believe the etd stats are better then the cath stats this round, and yet etd is the least chosen race by far. Because of this, and the etd showing since the race's inception that the player base has not found a unique interesting facet that makes them want to play etd no matter the stats, something that has happened with the other 4 races.
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Unread 16 Nov 2007, 00:05   #26
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

cmon guys, i love etd!

choose this race and your immediately in the top100 etd players!!
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Unread 16 Nov 2007, 02:14   #27
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

I think the low number of Etd can be explained partly by the new targeting system. It make things more complex and people don't want to add to it by choosing the race with all kind of fighting abilities.
Also it is a fact that the Etd stats have been perceived as bad (maybe wrongly) during beta, and the feedback given on IRC was to stay away from them. Every round the game is to find which race will be overpowered, it was clear to all that Etd was not the chosen one.
It's probably easier to remove them than to try and find a creative solution...
Why not then go back to a research/cons tree with choices opening some branches and closing others.
Then everybody would be Etd... in a way
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Unread 16 Nov 2007, 04:07   #28
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Do you just intentionally not read our posts?
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Unread 16 Nov 2007, 11:30   #29
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
It is in fact a vote on race as Mzyxptlk point's out
No he doesn't. If you want to call it a vote, it's a vote on a combination of the two. It's certainly not just 'a vote on Etd' as you portray it to be though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
the number of people have chosen etd is far below that of any other race, and the etd stats are not THAT bad. What it tells me is that the race bonus that etd gets does not hold people's interest. The race bonus that every other race has (cloak, emp, stealing, massive armor) appeals to a certain subset of the players in the game, no matter how bad the stats. The race bonus that etd has, (all of the above) does not seem to hold player's interest. Honestly I believe the etd stats are better then the cath stats this round, and yet etd is the least chosen race by far. Because of this, and the etd showing since the race's inception that the player base has not found a unique interesting facet that makes them want to play etd no matter the stats, something that has happened with the other 4 races.
I'm not entirely sure what Etd's benefits are these days, since you can't trust the manual, but it's part-salvage bonuses and part-all types of ships, right?

In Etd's first two rounds, lots of people played as them. That shows that people are not averse to playing as Etd. Yes, there's less of a fanbase at present but it will grow. It's an attractive option to have ships of all types, as long as Etd are a credible race with an equal chance of winning the round. I'm not up-to-date on stats, but if they're shit - either from a planet rank point of view or an alliance defence point of view, then no wonder people aren't choosing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Compare Cathaar and Eitraides, arguably both bad choices this round. For that matter, check out any bad choice during the last few rounds. I haven't seen numbers go this low since the first time I played. While yes, you're right that ingame choices don't mean everything, they can be a pretty decent indicator that something is up.
I agree - based on my experience, Cathaar has the most players 'loyal' to it out of all the races. However, I don't believe that this is the death knell for Eitraides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
maybe we should give ETD another 15 rounds like the other races had to gain some fanboys.

Dont force changes that just take a lil more time - and we all know thats what PA is about!
That mirrors my thinking.


However, I do subscribe to the belief that Cathaar is inherently broken, and I'm a big fanboy for jer's stats. I'd remove them and re-distribute EMP to Xan/Zik, not sure if I'd give it to Terran or not.

The concept of a 6th Race exists, which I keep going on about but I think it's a ****ing good idea.

Summary: the 6th race's ships steal the defending planet's resource income for that combat tick, according to the value of their ships surviving the battle (each ship can steal its own resource cost).
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Unread 17 Nov 2007, 14:34   #30
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Re: The player base votes ... Death to ETD

http://www.angelfire.com/tony-montan...zon-stats.html <these stats are far from perfect>


having a 6th race may solve this problem also as it would spread the number % of chosen races

6th race FTW!!!

i just want to know why the PA team choose to ignore this concept its had some good feedback and good input by a number of people and could contribute positivly towards a large numer of issues surrounding this game atm.
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