Fix cathaar by adding more killships

[Daynan]

This isn't completely my idea. I overheard somebody mention something similar on IRC.

After all ships have fired and asteroids are captured but before finalising the battle report, what if incidental damage is applied to all ships that have been frozen. This can be applied on a random amount basis of about 5-20%.

eg. 1000 co was frozen battle report shows that of those 1000 co 170 were killed. 1000 fr were frozen and 80 of them were killed. and so on.

These results can not be accurately calced and so would add risk to attacking caths. You will lose ships but you won't know if you lose 5% or up to 20% until after you land

In round 25 people were attacking Caths thinking they'll take a punt as they aren't likely to lose any ships anyway.

All Cath needs to be fixed is to add an element of risk and reduce (slightly) the firing power of EMP.

PS. I enjoyed defending PK last round. He was a salvage magnet

[Mzyxptlk]

We've already discussed it in (several?) other threads. The accepted term for it is critical damage, you can probably search for it.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Daynan

This isn't completely my idea. I overheard somebody mention something similar on IRC.

After all ships have fired and asteroids are captured but before finalising the battle report, what if incidental damage is applied to all ships that have been frozen. This can be applied on a random amount basis of about 5-20%.

eg. 1000 co was frozen battle report shows that of those 1000 co 170 were killed. 1000 fr were frozen and 80 of them were killed. and so on.

The problem I see with this is that massive caths will just become more untouchable. Whilst smaller caths will still be raped.

Except in rounds where cath suck (like r25), there are usually some enormous caths who're nigh untouchable. This approach makes them even stronger (and boosts their attack power significantly). Smaller cath can't afford enough EMP and will be forced to run anyway.

The idea is quite cool and it fits really well with cath philosophy, but I don't think it improves game balance.

[Vladel]

I think cath do need a few kill ships

[furball]

I love how everyone here thinks they can fix Cath where everyone else has failed before. You can't. 5-20% losses? People will take that and just land as if they were attacking any other race. You need to kill a much higher proportion of ships than that to stop people landing.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by furball

I love how everyone here thinks they can fix Cath where everyone else has failed before.

Who has tried before, and what did they do?

[Henchman]

Frozen ships can be "mugged".

Ships arent lost but the attacking planet will loose x amount of resources based on the ships cost.

[Aragno]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Frozen ships can be "mugged".

Ships arent lost but the attacking planet will loose x amount of resources based on the ships cost.

So I spend my res before I land? Don't think that'll help

[Mzyxptlk]

It changes nothing, because it's the same basic principle. You lose resources when you land vs you lose ships (= resources) when you land.

[MysticQue]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

You wanna fix cat??? Why, its fixed, u just play it in a broken way.

/me walks off into the distance screaming.. "YOU MAY TAKE OUR ROIDS, BUT YOU MAY NEVER TAKE..... OUR X PPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!123"

lol .. Junggle, i think he plays it on the other way round.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by furball

I love how everyone here thinks they can fix Cath where everyone else has failed before. You can't. 5-20% losses? People will take that and just land as if they were attacking any other race. You need to kill a much higher proportion of ships than that to stop people landing.

20% losses is quite significant when you're 160% cost-efficient at stunning something. That's 32% killing ratio guaranteed because of your amazing init. But I still don't think it balances out.

R17 I think was a reasonably successful attempt, according to the caths I spoke to.

[Daynan]

I wouldn't land on 20% losses. That's for loser xp whores who end up outside of the top 300 by the end of the round.

[Ave]

Originally Posted by Daynan

I wouldn't land on 20% losses. That's for loser xp whores who end up outside of the top 300 by the end of the round.

you couldn't be more wrong. xp ftw

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Who has tried before, and what did they do?

As previously mentioned, in r17 I attempted the killship approach.

The scorpion (DE->FR) and Mantis (BS->CR) were zero loss killships against 2 attack fleets each. Meanwhile, the Roach (CR->DE) was also a pretty effective killer that made caths harder to crack. In hindsight I would have changed it slightly, but I think that it was a reasonable attempt that some caths liked. I'd have preferred to have more feedback but it's worth a shot again IMO.