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11 Oct 2007, 22:05
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 295
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Escorting
I know why it's made, to avoid escorting (obviously). And even though i'm against escorting, i'm more biased against ppl being able to def without risking anything by sending an attackfleet.
Isn't it a tad better that ppl escort someone in their own ally, then someone else in another ally ruins an attack by sending no roiding ships?
Why not make it impossible to attack someone if you don't send enough roiders to cap something like 5% of their roids, instead of swithching between making it possible to defend by attacking or making it useless to escort someone?
Sorry, it might be that i'm the only one who's got a tad annoyed to see someone sending a much bigger fleet without pods, to ruin an attack. And in the other attackers defence, i can say that just maybe he were only trying to cap ships
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11 Oct 2007, 23:03
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#2
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Escorting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatus
I know why it's made, to avoid escorting (obviously). And even though i'm against escorting, i'm more biased against ppl being able to def without risking anything by sending an attackfleet.
Isn't it a tad better that ppl escort someone in their own ally, then someone else in another ally ruins an attack by sending no roiding ships?
Why not make it impossible to attack someone if you don't send enough roiders to cap something like 5% of their roids, instead of swithching between making it possible to defend by attacking or making it useless to escort someone?
Sorry, it might be that i'm the only one who's got a tad annoyed to see someone sending a much bigger fleet without pods, to ruin an attack. And in the other attackers defence, i can say that just maybe he were only trying to cap ships
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Your proposing the elimination of red defense, a time honored tradition dating all the way back to R1. While I'm not one for 'tradition' this is one I see no need to eliminate just because you don't like the effective use of a tactic. While it is annoying I don't see anything inherently 'wrong' with it and I feel it should continue to be allowed.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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12 Oct 2007, 00:05
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#3
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Escorting
What the hell are you talking about.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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12 Oct 2007, 02:24
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Escorting
Another (easy) way to tackle the problem (if it is one) would be to distribute the roids gained by "pods value" instead of "whole fleet value"...
If it was to be a valid tactic then members of the same ally/gal should be allowed to attack each other... as it is now it's more about exploiting a weakness in the game (another PA tradition) than a feature...
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<Furious_George> no, im 22
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12 Oct 2007, 03:00
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Escorting
if i understand you both correctly, your talking about a situation whereby 'red defence' is people sending fleets to attack with no pods to mess up the cap of attacking fleets? does this actually happern? i can't say i've ever seen it or know of anyone who's ever experienced it. As far as it being an effective strategy of defence, theirs the fact that you can't launch at ally mates, that you'd have to know about it in advance for it to work on fi/co and that for it to make a sizeable difference on the cap then the 'red defence' fleet would have to be of a much greater value than the attacker, which seems even more inefficient and a waste of a fleet. If your going to all this effort then just build some def ships
Considering how ineffective this seems i don;t see the need to put further restrictions on it.
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12 Oct 2007, 07:21
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#6
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Escorting
Should a piggy who just sends mass pods get more roids than someone who sends enough fleet to counter the enemy's fleet/enough pods for full cap?
(no)
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Finally free!
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12 Oct 2007, 16:16
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#7
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Escorting
I agree with furball, the suggestion Makhil makes would make the problem worse not better. Roid distribution by total fleet value is the way to go. Red defense is a lot less common then it used to be because you cannot attack your ally mates. But it doesn't stop it, because if you have friends outside of your ally you can have them join in on the attack on you to help save your roids, I use this tactic myself, especially when I have a large number of roids and have 7 or 8 waves of incomming. Best way to save at least some of those roids is to find someone to attack you, rather then trying to find defense if my ally is being heavily taxed.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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12 Oct 2007, 19:31
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#8
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Escorting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Best way to save at least some of those roids is to find someone to attack you
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sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
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"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
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12 Oct 2007, 19:34
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 255
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Re: Escorting
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
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if you don't cap any then it's hardly farming
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[F-Crew], Wolfpack, Destiny, Urwins, Ascendancy & Jenova
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12 Oct 2007, 20:17
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#10
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Escorting
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
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It does not fix the definition of farming for two reasons, one as previously stated no roids, or XP is gained by anyone, so there is nothing going on that can be considered as cheating. Secondly even if my 'friend' sends pods, how do you distinguish between my friend and the other attackers? Remember the idea is to match etas with the other attackers, not add new waves. Unless you want to say that I am farming by 'allowing' members of another ally to take my roids, and therefore close the other allies members and myself it can't be punished as farming, but instead is simply the fortunes of war.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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12 Oct 2007, 22:50
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#11
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Come Closer, I Have Candy
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vast Regions of Space Without a Lifejacket
Posts: 213
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Re: Escorting
Honestly, I like red defence, I think it was Monroe who wrote a huge thread about it way back, though my memory is still a bit fuzzy.
Either way, I do think it is a valid strategy and there is no reason to put more restrictions on it, or on the game in general, the last thing we need is to put so many restrictions that it makes the game literally unplayable.
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MetallicAnomaly
[ROCK] || Conspiracy Theory || Ascendancy
Rounds Played: 3-9 16-19 23-33
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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13 Oct 2007, 08:59
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 295
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Re: Escorting
I have to admit, one of the reason they could use it against me were because i prelaunched by 30 minutes
However i think it's better that ppl are able to escort someone, instead of being able to lower cap without even loosing ships. Atleast by escorting you can't avoid a battle, unlike sending ships that won't cap. And if there's a choice between 2 kinda ways of abusing the rules, then i prefer the one were a battle is involved.
Last edited by Pilatus; 13 Oct 2007 at 09:07.
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13 Oct 2007, 10:03
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#13
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Escorting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
It does not fix the definition of farming for two reasons, one as previously stated no roids, or XP is gained by anyone, so there is nothing going on that can be considered as cheating.
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Its the difference between an "Accounting gain" and an "Economic gain".
Your case of an accounting gain, where there actually has to be an increase, is generally used in the rules. However, this doesnt have to be the case.
The alternative, the economic gain, is where the prevention of loss is a gain, or the minimising of said loss is also a gain, thus there are "economic gains" to that red defensive action.
All that aside, i still think "red defence" (such as it is in this case, see the PAwiki article), is still a viable tactic and should be encouraged. Also, because of the problems of double-booked galaxies, there would be no real way to tell absolutely what's what.
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13 Oct 2007, 11:10
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 295
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Re: Escorting
Now i really feel like whining the way i were tempted to when i ended up with 20 roids from a 500 roid target. But i feel more like expressing the way i felt atm.
Except from swearing at pa team, and wanted to kick someone in their holiest place, i've never felt more like quitting this game. Ofcause i'm not going to do that, especially since i got a credit left. And even though i didn't read the manual well enough, i had a feeling that i shouldn't prelaunched.
But if we really wanted new players in this game, is it really a good option to let them having to figure out why they only capped 5% of roids. And worse if if they lost ships. If it were you do and you were new to this game, do you think your first reaction would be that you didn't read the manual well enough, or that something were wrong with the fleet that you sent?
Last edited by Pilatus; 13 Oct 2007 at 11:18.
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