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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:24   #1
ComradeRob
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What's really going on?

As I see it: (disclaimer: I may well be wrong on some points. I'm basing my opinions on my past experience, instinct and what people have told me)

eXilition are kicking ass, but have had serious incoming to contend with. They're the strongest alliance in military terms, as proven by their high scores (they have lots of XP which comes from hitting top planets).

Angels are also kicking ass, but are unable to compete with eXilition. In particular, they have had heavy incoming from eX and ND, as well as other alliances who have figured out that they can get free roids by taking advantage of eX's hard work in draining Angels defence fleets.

ND are doing well - much as they did last round. They're #1 on roids, although that means little at this stage (Angels were #1 on roids with a lead of 12k roids only a few days ago). Their average score is lower than eX's, but not by much. This probably means that ND have better average value than eX do.

1up got screwed at the start, but are recovering well. They've taken advantage of their reduced incoming to gain a lot of roids, but their low average score suggests that their value will take some time to catch up.

The real event of the round so far has been the eX vs. Angels war. Initially a straight fight between the two, Angels got a head start by attacking first. eX then fought back and reversed their losses, turning a 12k roid lead for Angels into a 3k roid deficit (as of PT522). Angels are now on their fourth straight day of roid losses, although today's 0.4% loss is small in comparison to early losses.

So what happened last night? It looks as thought Angels hit ND hard, and gained good roids from doing so (although ND's 7-8% loss is hardly a disaster - they still have more roids than anyone else). 1up also attacked ND.

Why is this happening? Since Angels' obvious enemy is eXilition, why are they hitting ND? The reason, in my opinion, is this: eXilition have proven themselves to be the strongest alliance. A straight fight - Angels vs. eXilition, or Angels/partner vs eX/partner (assuming equal-sized partners) would result in a victory for eX. Angels want to isolate eX, and are attacking ND in an attempt to "send a message", with the message being that any cooperation with eX will be punished.

Side note: At this point, I expect ND to vigorously deny cooperation with eXilition. They may well be correct. What matters is not whether there is actual cooperation in the sense of formal agreement between eX and ND, but whether ND's strategy is one that helps eXilition. If ND's strategy is to attack Angels, then their strategy assists eX whether or not this is the intent behind it. Some will choose to see this as a conspiracy and claim that eX/ND must be cooperating. In reality, it doesn't matter whether there is official cooperation or not.

Does the "message" strategy work? The most recent example I can think of is in round 13, when 1up led a massive strike on Angels, with the intention of forcing Angels out of their (assumed) NAP with eXilition. This backfired somewhat when Angels angrily denied ever having such a NAP. It certainly didn't have the effect of making Angels want to attack eXilition. We're in a similar situation now, although eXilition's lead this round is smaller than in r13. Angels believe that eX can be stopped, but don't believe that this is possible whilst ND are hitting Angels. Therefore they want to discourage ND from hitting them, by showing that there are negative consequences for doing so.

Will ND see it that way? In my opinion, probably not. Last round ND were entirely content to fight a lengthy and somewhat bitter war with Reunion, the effect of which was ultimately that 1up won the round. Angels may find themselves fighting a similar war with ND this round, to the ultimate benefit of eX. ND will have to decide whether this is what they want. If eX are going to win, the ND/Angels war could end up being a fight for 2nd place - although perhaps they'll both end up being passed by 1up or Insomnia.

Finally, the cynical reader (and, this being AD, means all of you) will no doubt be wondering what my agenda is. I'm unallied this round and have friends on several sides and I don't consider myself to represent any particular alliance. I am, however, interested to see how the people running alliances think about the political situation, and how perceptions differ between different people with different information available to them. I hope that this thread may start an interesting discussion of those perspectives
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:32   #2
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Re: What's really going on?

utter BS.
I wonder if anyone actually wants to read these.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:34   #3
ComradeRob
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
ND are doing well - much as they did last round. They're #1 on roids, although that means little at this stage (Angels were #1 on roids with a lead of 12k roids only a few days ago).
Proving my point, ND dropped to 2nd on roids as I was writing the post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesekiel
utter BS.
I wonder if anyone actually wants to read these.
At least explain why it's utter BS. I don't mind being proven wrong by someone with a better grasp of reality. If you know something that I don't, then please tell me what it is.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:38   #4
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Re: What's really going on?

Excellent post Rob, my only criticism would be that you neglect to mention 1up and Angels seem to be hitting the same target every night also, and have done for quite a large section of the round now.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:48   #5
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Proving my point, ND dropped to 2nd on roids as I was writing the post

At least explain why it's utter BS. I don't mind being proven wrong by someone with a better grasp of reality. If you know something that I don't, then please tell me what it is.

its not that youd be wrong, but I just honestly can find any of this interesting its not your fault.

then shut up, don't post, GD'ers don't - whine again, you're banned - Lok
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Last edited by lokken; 19 Nov 2005 at 17:12.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:49   #6
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Excellent post Rob, my only criticism would be that you neglect to mention 1up and Angels seem to be hitting the same target every night also, and have done for quite a large section of the round now.
1up and Angels both hitting eXilition (rank #1) is somewhat understandable. I'd agree that if they're hitting ND (rank #3) together then that's less forgivable. In fact it would be a strategy highly likely to piss ND off and make them more likely to side with eXilition (officially or otherwise).

I'd be wary of saying something as sweeping as "Angels and 1up hit the same targets every night" though. It's probably as true as the statement "eXiltiion and ND hit the same targets every night".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesekiel
its not that youd be wrong, but I just honestly can find any of this interesting its not your fault.
And I thought that this was the "Alliance Discussions" forum
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:49   #7
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Excellent post Rob, my only criticism would be that you neglect to mention 1up and Angels seem to be hitting the same target every night also, and have done for quite a large section of the round now.
I guess you forgot to mention ND's apparent targetting of anyone who hits exilition hard. Considering that you are giving things that "seem to be" rather than things that "are", I'd have thought you'd have at least mentioned the most obvious one.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:51   #8
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Re: What's really going on?

Not really Bashar. Rob already said in the post about ND/eXi both hitting Angels together.

Whereas 1up and Angels both hit eXi together, and today both hit ND together. An excellent strategy to stop eXi running away with the round.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:55   #9
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
An excellent strategy to stop eXi running away with the round.
Just as excellent as ND hitting the alliances which try to prevent eXilition from running away with the round.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:56   #10
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Re: What's really going on?

Well in general ur post is kinda true and NO we're not impressed bout Angels/1up/LCH hitting us, everyone saw it coming.

The gap Exi - Angels will only grow if Angels decide to hit us for the next days also, which wouldnt be a smart move imo. So what's Angels gonna do the next days? Concentrating on ND and give Exi the win or...dillema right..its gonna be a interesting week
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 16:59   #11
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Just as excellent as ND hitting the alliances which try to prevent eXilition from running away with the round.
When we started hitting Angels they had been #1 that day, and had a huge lead in roids.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:00   #12
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaVeRiXX
Well in general ur post is kinda true and NO we're not impressed bout Angels/1up/LCH hitting us, everyone saw it coming.

The gap Exi - Angels will only grow if Angels decide to hit us for the next days also, which wouldnt be a smart move imo. So what's Angels gonna do the next days? Concentrating on ND and give Exi the win or...dillema right..its gonna be a interesting week
Yepp, dilemma. It's like concentrate on ND and have eXi winning and ND ending somewhere lower ranked or not concentrating on ND and have eXi winning and ND ending somewhere higher ranked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
When we started hitting Angels they had been #1 that day, and had a huge lead in roids.
Yeah, but even when they were losing heavily already you kept on - kind of showing the side you are playing with, no?
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:30   #13
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Not really Bashar. Rob already said in the post about ND/eXi both hitting Angels together.

Whereas 1up and Angels both hit eXi together, and today both hit ND together. An excellent strategy to stop eXi running away with the round.
please add xVx to that
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:32   #14
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Re: What's really going on?

I`m really amazed how exilition handels defence, seem to cover up really good, whats your secret guys?
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:33   #15
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Re: What's really going on?

Not really Heartless, as eXilition lost roids for 3 nights in a row, it was the 4th when they managed a green, and until they hit that green, it was in the balance. Who knows if we would have hit Angels again last night?

Seems Angels have set their intentions alongside 1up though, showing hostility to ND.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:35   #16
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Re: What's really going on?

Every night ND have hit angels before last night angels had the highest roid count of any alliance. We should stop hitting roid fat targets that we can get through on just to please other allies?

In regards to last night, angels hit ND early and therefore it made little sense to stop targetting them that night. If angels had not hit ND last night ND may still have hit angels but I think it would be highly likely that we would find another target tonight, whether that would have been a different ally or going back to gal attacks would have depended on the situation, which obviously now is different because of last night.

If you think I am wrong please point out how but please do not flame or just say it is wrong, post something constructive. After all this is Alliance Discussion.

Disclaimer: I speak my own views and do not represent the views of the alliance as a whole.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:49   #17
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Re: What's really going on?

Heh, Angels have been more hostile towards ND before we hit them than eXi, even if they also were. Imo, it was the right move from us to hit Angels, since the difference between those 2 is that eXi mostly left ND in eXi gals alone, while Angels hit NewDawners in Angels gals.
Lame tactic, and lamers deserve a smash.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:50   #18
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Not really Heartless, as eXilition lost roids for 3 nights in a row, it was the 4th when they managed a green, and until they hit that green, it was in the balance. Who knows if we would have hit Angels again last night?

Seems Angels have set their intentions alongside 1up though, showing hostility to ND.
Then you might want to ask yourself why eXilition could first lose roids and then sneak into the green again - obviously ND was tipping the balance into eX direction again. Considering the efforts required to slightly hurt eXilition it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see why people assume ND to prefer eXilition winning the round than anyone else - including themselves.

It is fairly obvious, especially from last night, that ND is - like last round - unable to handle a night with the amount of incoming Angels, eXilition and 1up have been facing this round several times already.

Assuming you just wanted to try to ride on the wave, you did it poorly. You should have spread your targetting across several alliances and thus try to stay out of the ongoing war for some more time - but you chose different. In the end I am sure that what happened last night will not continue for the rest of the round, as that would be boring and lead to eXilition winning (I assume you can imagine that, especially after last night), but I guess that you guys should finally start to think about the results of your actions.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 17:59   #19
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Seems Angels have set their intentions alongside 1up though, showing hostility to ND.
What makes you think 1up/Angels/Anyone else cares about ND so much? You seem to be throwing blame around here. Simply put, you went to Exilitions bed, if that's not where you wanted to lie, then why did you go to it in the first place? You can't complain about lying there when you jumped in of your own free will.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:06   #20
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Re: What's really going on?

Of the top 4 allies Angels were easily the most hostile to ND early on and were the only ally to actually hit targets in gals with other angels in. As 1up have so often said they do, we just hit the alliance most hostile to us. Or would you rather we had just not hit any of the top 4 allies and been accused of noob bashing/fencesitting?
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:08   #21
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
Heh, Angels have been more hostile towards ND before we hit them than eXi, even if they also were. Imo, it was the right move from us to hit Angels, since the difference between those 2 is that eXi mostly left ND in eXi gals alone, while Angels hit NewDawners in Angels gals.
Lame tactic, and lamers deserve a smash.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:15   #22
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesekiel
utter BS.
I wonder if anyone actually wants to read these.
This information is plain to see
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:28   #23
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
please add xVx to that
And LCH, Insomnia, TGV... where do we stop? I've deliberately tried to focus on the big four alliances since those are the only ones whose decisions are likely to shape the course of the round. The other alliances (no disrespect to them) are unlikely to change the course of the round by their decisions. For every minor alliance you can quote as being on one side, someone else will quote another as being on the other side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Seems Angels have set their intentions alongside 1up though, showing hostility to ND.
That's one way of looking at it. According to this view, ND were only hitting Angels because Angels had hit ND. The fact that this coincided with eX hitting Angels was apparently entirely coincidental, and implies no agreement between eX and ND.

Why, then, does a coincidence in 1up and Angels targetting imply that they must be cooperating?

I'm not saying that they aren't cooperating. I honestly don't know, but I'm not sure that it's a safe assumption to make. It seems to me that, since ND are assuming that there's cooperation between 1up and Angels, and Angels are assuming that there's cooperation between ND and eX, both alliances are going to make the other's assumptions come true even if they weren't true when they were initially made. Both sides can now begin formal cooperation with their assumed partners, on the justification that "we're going to be attacked because people think we're cooperating, so we will have to cooperate in order to survive".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
It is fairly obvious, especially from last night, that ND is - like last round - unable to handle a night with the amount of incoming Angels, eXilition and 1up have been facing this round several times already.
I don't think that's entirely fair to ND. They lost less than Angels lost recently, and no alliance - even eXilition - has escaped roid loss this round. ND were always going to lose roids last night, and I don't think that they can be judged on the basis of a single night's performance against several enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Assuming you just wanted to try to ride on the wave, you did it poorly. You should have spread your targetting across several alliances and thus try to stay out of the ongoing war for some more time - but you chose different.
If they did that, people would accuse them of fence-sitting

I'm not sure any of us can say what ND's strategy should be, or what 1up's strategy should be either. That's a decision for the HCs of the alliance to take. It's easy to criticise an alliance from the outside, and it's easy to forget how difficult the job of a HC is. Making big decisions with limited information is always hard, and nobody gets it right 100% of the time. In fact, I don't think ND's strategy has been a bad one so far. They're in 3rd place, with a better average and total roid count than Angels (who are 2nd). The #1 alliance is eXilition, and it's reasonable to assume that they, having now taken the lead on both score and roids, will be the focus of attention in the coming days. ND's position is pretty good, when those things are taken into consideration.
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Last edited by ComradeRob; 19 Nov 2005 at 18:37.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:38   #24
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Why, then, does a coincidence in 1up and Angels targetting imply that they must be cooperating?
This has actually been admitted by 1up members. The co-ordination between ND and eX has never been admitted simply because it isn't true. I know myself I have been piggied by eX members on attacks on angels (not that it turned out badly, but it was completely unintentional). Anyone who says there has been no overlap is talking a load of rubbish tbh.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:49   #25
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Re: What's really going on?

overlapping was the case the first few nights, last night it was in a league of its own, no overlapping, each chosen seperate targets to fake, then planets landing on nd planets being fleetcaught by exi
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:55   #26
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
In regards to last night, angels hit ND early and therefore it made little sense to stop targetting them that night. If angels had not hit ND last night ND may still have hit angels but I think it would be highly likely that we would find another target tonight, whether that would have been a different ally or going back to gal attacks would have depended on the situation, which obviously now is different because of last night.
You reasoning is somewhat working in both ways, Angels were roids fats and were targeted by ND just for pure roids gain (lets say im going to believe this), Yesterday Angels were low in Roids and ND were the one with the most roids in universe (which a big part of it belonging to Angels), dont you think it was natural Angels would pay you a visit? Dont you think that hitting an alliance 4 nights in a row wouldnt attract some kind of retal? Or do you think we should have just said, "oh lets continue to hit exilition, anyway all the roids we are gaining from exilition are going to ND."
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:57   #27
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Re: What's really going on?

so angels are now hitting ND instead of ex? So who did ex hit last night to gain so many roids?
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 18:58   #28
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alch
You reasoning is somewhat working in both ways, Angels were roids fats and were targeted by ND just for pure roids gain (lets say im going to believe this), Yesterday Angels were low in Roids and ND were the one with the most roids in universe (which a big part of it belonging to Angels), dont you think it was natural Angels would pay you a visit? Dont you think that hitting an alliance 4 nights in a row wouldnt attract some kind of retal? Or do you think we should have just said, "oh lets continue to hit exilition, anyway all the roids we are gaining from exilition are going to ND."
Because I have actually said that I was surprised/annoyed that angels hit us?

Of course angels were going to hit us after we had hit them for 3 (not 4) nights. I haven't complained about that. All I was replying to was people saying that ND are co-ordinating with eXilition or at least have some ulterior motive for hitting angels.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 19:00   #29
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
overlapping was the case the first few nights, last night it was in a league of its own, no overlapping, each chosen seperate targets to fake, then planets landing on nd planets being fleetcaught by exi

If this is true then it is quite dubious and it seems that sides are being drawn up. Now the question is will the rest of the uni go after ND to "punish" them for their political decisions like in round 12 and let exi run with it or will they create a temporary block to counter (insert nd and exis anagram here)
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 19:00   #30
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
overlapping was the case the first few nights, last night it was in a league of its own, no overlapping, each chosen seperate targets to fake, then planets landing on nd planets being fleetcaught by exi

All lies, ND is still piggying EXil...
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 19:13   #31
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorinn
"We don't like you because you engaged in a war game when you hit everyone equally rather than focussing on 1 alliance"

lol, this was a very stupid post? Was I saying that?
What I said was, we had incomings from both eXi and Angels. NP with that. Difference there though was that Angels hit NewDawners in Angels gals, while eXi didn't hit NewDawners in eXi gals. Lame as hell to do so, especially when you're just out "hitting everyone rather than focusing on 1 alliance".
That's what pissed many of us off, and I think that was one of the things that made us go after Angels, not eXi.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 19:29   #32
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Re: What's really going on?

Kudos go to eXilition for convincing ND to join a war that was not theirs to fight. Two nights ago you participated in a really well orchestrated military maneuver against Angels which, i am inclined to think, was directed by eX.
Last nights attacks on ND were not even near the degree of coordination you showed two nights ago, but we will get there, don't worry .
To eXilition, you are a great alliance, and your military skills really impress me. Your politic skills also seem to be second to none. I am really looking forward to battling you this round. I am learning quite a few things from you
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 19:51   #33
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
please add xVx to that

xVx is to busy to hit my gal, i doubt they can be a significant problem for a top ally.

to comrade´s post : great to read - this round is really great because there are so many options and it seems we have 4 alliances playing on a nearly same quality level.

The question is what will happen next, will the combined attacks on Angels stop and will alliances (ND for example) now go for Exil who seem to be the strongest out of these 4. But are they really the strongest or is it cause they have some support (their cooperators are known) - or does others have also bonds with others ?

I personally would like a fluid top 4 till the end of the round with like a last minute winner but doubfully this will happen, hehe
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 20:10   #34
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible
All lies, ND is still piggying EXil...
if you say it enough, people may start believing you. As it stands i need no confirmation from either party as statistics speak for themselves. Lots of love
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 20:12   #35
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legator
xVx is to busy to hit my gal, i doubt they can be a significant problem for a top ally.

They attacked mine in, which seems to be, a coordinated attack with 1up.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 20:25   #36
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
if you say it enough, people may start believing you. As it stands i need no confirmation from either party as statistics speak for themselves. Lots of love
You wanna see breps???
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 21:03   #37
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Re: What's really going on?

In my opinion alliances have totally misunderstood ND and I feel that 1up and Angels may be pushing ND in a direction they wouldn't have gone in otherwise. What people don't realise is that ND is nothing like the other 3 alliances in terms of thought process and how they want to play the game. Just a thought.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 21:07   #38
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Re: What's really going on?

I can honestly say that I have seen a lot of eX and ND coords attacking just Angels planets. And, like Rob said, who knows if it's an official agreement to coordinate attacks, but it seemed that ND tactics and politics the last few nights, worked to gain size and score.

This week will be interesting indeed. At the same time, let's all hope that this week will not determine the winner of this round.

Not yet, please.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 21:59   #39
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
lol, this was a very stupid post? Was I saying that?
What I said was, we had incomings from both eXi and Angels. NP with that. Difference there though was that Angels hit NewDawners in Angels gals, while eXi didn't hit NewDawners in eXi gals. Lame as hell to do so, especially when you're just out "hitting everyone rather than focusing on 1 alliance".
That's what pissed many of us off, and I think that was one of the things that made us go after Angels, not eXi.
It still looks like a piss poor reason, assuming that ND have and had no agreement with ND, and they still didn't hit their planets on purpose, then it would look like a political play on ex's part so give them puppeteer status. If that is the actual reason for ND to focus on Angels, or whoever else eX happens to be attack then congratulations to eX, wonderfull tactical move. In the case od ND though, well..... http://www.thegeezers.net/shows/his%...oice%20int.gif.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:07   #40
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible
All lies, ND is still piggying EXil...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
if you say it enough, people may start believing you. As it stands i need no confirmation from either party as statistics speak for themselves. Lots of love
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible
You wanna see breps???
At this point breps don't usually prove too much either way. It's perfectly plausible that either
a) An ND raid happened to pick the same target as Exil that night
b) An ND AG is cooperating with Exil for targets without knowledge/consent of ND HC.
c) There is HC level coordination between two alliances.

It takes alot of breps over several nights to get an accurate picture, and I certainly don't see them all being posted here with relevant alliance coords. If you want to prove which of the above possibilties is true in public, it's going to have to be some convincing internal leak from either alliance.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:27   #41
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorinn
It still looks like a piss poor reason, assuming that ND have and had no agreement with ND, and they still didn't hit their planets on purpose, then it would look like a political play on ex's part so give them puppeteer status. If that is the actual reason for ND to focus on Angels, or whoever else eX happens to be attack then congratulations to eX, wonderfull tactical move. In the case od ND though, well..... http://www.thegeezers.net/shows/his%...oice%20int.gif.

You seem to be a very narrow minded guy. We aren't anyones puppets, and the only alliance it seems we've been targetting so far is Angels, and from a peons view, like me, people in our alliance dislike you. How many alliances is that, that eXi "just happenes to attack". Can you count?
When members were talking on the private about who'd they wanna hit, I deffinetly saw more people talking about Angels than eXi. Since you had pissed more people off.

We had to step into this war sooner or later. You guys were #1, you were nicking roids off of our members in Angel gals + the NewDawners in eXi gals that had lost roids to you. You had 1up with you hitting eXi, which made it look like eXi were falling.
Remember that they were the ones loosing for a few nights? Looked like you were running away with all those roids.

Now, exactly what do you think we should have done? If we weren't hitting anyone, just nicking roids from bot sides, you'd be complaining that we are fencesitters.
Seems like the only thing that we should have done, would've been to join you and target eXi, making your #1 spot stronger.

You're just whining, cause you are loosing. Best part is, this whining looks very familiar from when Ministry were loosing wars in pia.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:36   #42
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Re: What's really going on?

No you fail to see the bigger picture and know nada obvious. You attack and attempt to wipe out an alliance, that is rank 2, you strengthen the 'strongest' alliance in the game, you reduce the amount of incommings the 'stongest' alliance in the game recieves, you gain yourselves no friends, you pull your trousers down bend over and wait to be spanked
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:47   #43
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
I honestly don't know, but I'm not sure that it's a safe assumption to make. It seems to me that, since ND are assuming that there's cooperation between 1up and Angels, and Angels are assuming that there's cooperation between ND and eX, both alliances are going to make the other's assumptions come true even if they weren't true when they were initially made. Both sides can now begin formal cooperation with their assumed partners, on the justification that "we're going to be attacked because people think we're cooperating, so we will have to cooperate in order to survive".
This I believe is a thoroughly correct analysis. Misconceptions in planetarion have often lead to rumours turning into greatest fears, turning into reality because the parties who the rumour was about had the situation thrust upon them for no good reason.

Quote:
If they did that, people would accuse them of fence-sitting
The problem is that people are all too keen to see one kind of behaviour, and label it fence sitting. ND have not at any point attempt to NAP the universe, or avoid incoming. All we've done is simply, do our own thing. People seem to dislike it, but that's for obvious reasons, because they wish ND to act in a way that suits their purposes. The minute ND have been seen to be interfering, they have been quickly pegged back, which entirely runs those opinions null and void. ND is perhaps not as powerful militarily as the other 3 alliances you analyse - we have to tread a bit more carefully, which is often why people fail to appreciate ND's position and decide to rant their spleen accordingly, expecting ND to play either as a powerhouse on its own, or as part of some role in a block. To fit ND into either category doesn't do it justice.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:49   #44
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
overlapping was the case the first few nights, last night it was in a league of its own, no overlapping, each chosen seperate targets to fake, then planets landing on nd planets being fleetcaught by exi
ND's early retals and attacks (from 2200-0200) were completely run by me. I was about to go to bed when a nice bunch of angels incs appeared, realised we would be in for a rough night, then started organising retals for the next 4 hours. I know that cypher, for one, can verify that an ND and an eX fleet piggied each other when it was clearly unneeded (each attacker had about 3 or 4k frigs, target had under 4k vsh...)

Of course, our own attacks weakened once 1up launched on us and drew a lot of fleets...

EDIT: as an aside, that was an excellent executed attack by LCH*, 1up and Angels. The 1up waves helped knock the wind out of our retals nicely, and I'm pretty sure this helped to give angels a bit of extra time to prep their own launches. Kudos to your BCs

*Even if you randomly and unintentionally decided to wave ND planets in gals and completely ignore their galmates, it definitely helped Angels/1up
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:49   #45
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez
At this point breps don't usually prove too much either way. It's perfectly plausible that either
a) An ND raid happened to pick the same target as Exil that night
b) An ND AG is cooperating with Exil for targets without knowledge/consent of ND HC.
c) There is HC level coordination between two alliances.

It takes alot of breps over several nights to get an accurate picture, and I certainly don't see them all being posted here with relevant alliance coords. If you want to prove which of the above possibilties is true in public, it's going to have to be some convincing internal leak from either alliance.

Why on earth, would EXil and ND be attacking the same targets, when they're 2 to 1 in military power? Makes no sense piggy backing each other, when you could pick more wide spreaded and covering more of Angels

EDIT: Bad choice of word, i forgot, we aren't on earth
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 22:55   #46
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
wheee
While I agree with most of what you say here, I would have thought that the people who mattered (i.e. the HCs of respective alliances) would know what was going on, and such rumours wouldn't really change general alliance targetting.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 23:12   #47
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veX
While I agree with most of what you say here, I would have thought that the people who mattered (i.e. the HCs of respective alliances) would know what was going on, and such rumours wouldn't really change general alliance targetting.
I'm sure HC's of every alliance will be flattered you gave them such credit.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 23:28   #48
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Re: What's really going on?

If we follow everyone’s logic here all should target (for the time being) the most roidfat alliance, since that has happened with both Angels and ND recently.

Ex are the ones to be target then?

What I am not getting is why roid counts more then score is in everyone’s eyes?
Even tho Ex got loads more score then everyone else – all seems to target the allie who got
the most roids for the moment.

In the long run would that not work best for Ex?
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 23:32   #49
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I'm sure HC's of every alliance will be flattered you gave them such credit.
Not every alliance, but the ones concerned in this supposed 2v2.
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Unread 19 Nov 2005, 23:34   #50
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Re: What's really going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate

......LCH....
LCH have been a persistant thorn in the side of 1up as have VGN and xVx. Kudos to them.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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