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24 Jul 2005, 22:36
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#1
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Mecca and Medina
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/...an.muslims.ap/
Congressman suggests way to retaliate for nuclear terror
DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.
Rep. Tom Tancredo made his remarks Friday on WFLA-AM in Orlando, Florida. His spokesman stressed he was only speaking hypothetically.
Talk show host Pat Campbell asked the Littleton Republican how the country should respond if terrorists struck several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.
"Well, what if you said something like -- if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.
"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.
"Yeah," Tancredo responded.
The congressman later said he was "just throwing out some ideas" and that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."
Spokesman Will Adams said Sunday the four-term congressman doesn't support threatening holy Islamic sites but that Tancredo was grappling with the hypothetical situation of a terrorist strike deadlier than the September 11, 2001, attacks.
"We have an enemy with no uniform, no state, who looks like you and me and only emerges right before an attack. How do we go after someone like that?" Adams said.
"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said.
Tancredo is known in the House for his tough stand on immigration.
Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.
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"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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24 Jul 2005, 22:44
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: Mecca and Medina
go go world war 3
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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24 Jul 2005, 22:54
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#3
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
go go world war 3
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Many people consider the Cold War to be World War III. That would make the coming/current conflict World War IV. See http://www.ww4report.com/
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"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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24 Jul 2005, 22:59
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#4
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Re: Mecca and Medina
So bombing Saudiarabia (american ally) will help?
So, will his support grow or fall?
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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24 Jul 2005, 22:59
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#5
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Mecca and Medina
He's just 'throwing' some thoughts out there you know. As if he were even capable of 'thinking.' Bombing Mecca. As if anybody there will have had anything to do with a terrorist attack. What an idiot.
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24 Jul 2005, 23:01
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#6
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Next goal wins!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,406
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Many people consider the Cold War to be World War III. That would make the coming/current conflict World War IV. See http://www.ww4report.com/
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heh, there hasnt been anything even close to a "world war" since the end of two. But this could become a stupid conversation about how to define world wars... so ill just say you are right
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bastard bastard bastard bastard
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24 Jul 2005, 23:06
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#7
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
heh, there hasnt been anything even close to a "world war" since the end of two. But this could become a stupid conversation about how to define world wars... so ill just say you are right
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Thanks.
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"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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24 Jul 2005, 23:23
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#8
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
So, will his support grow or fall?
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It probably doesn't help his chances in 2008. But you never can tell. The United States elected Bush twice. And nuked Japan twice.
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"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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25 Jul 2005, 04:07
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#9
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Mecca and Medina
There will be no serious support for such an idiotic idea.
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Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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25 Jul 2005, 04:25
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#10
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Back from timeout.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 901
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Re: Mecca and Medina
i almost agree with this man
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You'll have to prise my penis from my cold, dead hand!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
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25 Jul 2005, 04:48
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#11
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Luminous Flux
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 215
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Re: Mecca and Medina
What a retard. He's a republican too, who'd have guessed?
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Cuddley_Battleship
Your neg rep destination.
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25 Jul 2005, 10:27
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Some people are just unhelpful.
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The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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25 Jul 2005, 10:54
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#13
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mecca and Medina
I don't really think you can appeal to a mutually-assured-destruction scenario when dealing with "terrorists" of this sort. The nuclear deterrent presumes a foe who is broadly following an earthly secular rationality of "not wanting to die" or "not wanting millions of innocent people to die".
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25 Jul 2005, 11:14
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#14
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: Mecca and Medina
and americans wonder why they have such a bad image in the rest of the world...
sigh.
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Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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25 Jul 2005, 15:52
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#15
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Another Republican ideologue from Hicksville talking out of their arse.
Welcome to the real world, big man.
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25 Jul 2005, 16:08
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#16
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't really think you can appeal to a mutually-assured-destruction scenario when dealing with "terrorists" of this sort. The nuclear deterrent presumes a foe who is broadly following an earthly secular rationality of "not wanting to die" or "not wanting millions of innocent people to die".
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I don't believe he proposed nuking Mecca et al., just bombing them.
It's a stupid idea either way though, of course.
I thought this part was amusing though:
Quote:
Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.
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There are Muslim clerics who burn bibles or say they're going to take over the Vatican someday or destroy the wailing wall (or in the case of the Taliban, actually do blow up buddhas). Some sites and texts are more sacred then others, seemingly.
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The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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25 Jul 2005, 16:13
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#17
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
There are Muslim clerics who burn bibles or say they're going to take over the Vatican someday or destroy the wailing wall (or in the case of the Taliban, actually do blow up buddhas). Some sites and texts are more sacred then others, seemingly.
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he was quite obviously talking as an american muslim about american politicians.
Quote:
coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council
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was a bit of a give away really.
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hi
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25 Jul 2005, 16:19
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#18
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I don't believe he proposed nuking Mecca et al., just bombing them.
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Oh. The ultimate response doesn't sound very ultimate then.
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25 Jul 2005, 16:23
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#19
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mecca and Medina
"Bombing" is ambiguous, but if you intended to "take out" Mecca or Medina, then you'd need a hell of a lot more than a handful of cruise missiles.
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25 Jul 2005, 16:34
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#20
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Retard0r
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Hahaha, some ppl really shouldnt be allowed to have serious jobs. What a politician...
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-Chimpie
* We do not exist *
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25 Jul 2005, 18:24
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#21
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Oh. The ultimate response doesn't sound very ultimate then.
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I think destroying (just) the great mosque for example would be pretty ultimate, but I guess YMMV.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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25 Jul 2005, 18:45
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#22
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Next goal wins!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,406
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
"Bombing" is ambiguous, but if you intended to "take out" Mecca or Medina, then you'd need a hell of a lot more than a handful of cruise missiles.
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one cruise missile straight into the kaballah (or whatever that big black thing is called) would piss off muslims quite a lot though.
although of course it would miss.
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bastard bastard bastard bastard
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25 Jul 2005, 23:49
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#23
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Mecca and Medina
We could let the Brits do it and then we would probably find out that it was Brazilian.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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26 Jul 2005, 10:22
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#24
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Adelante
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 855
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
He's just 'throwing' some thoughts out there you know. As if he were even capable of 'thinking.' Bombing Mecca. As if anybody there will have had anything to do with a terrorist attack. What an idiot.
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Is about hurting the enemy which is fanatical borderless muslims... Sadly the idea would hit inocents, and it won't be done. But saying it is probably just to make muslims think twice, and give out the idea that nuclear weapons is to far even for muslims.
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26 Jul 2005, 10:28
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: Mecca and Medina
i dont think so. bin laden would be quite happy if mecca gets bombed, that would give him a few 100,000 new recruits and supporters.
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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26 Jul 2005, 10:44
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#26
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Adelante
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 855
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
i dont think so. bin laden would be quite happy if mecca gets bombed, that would give him a few 100,000 new recruits and supporters.
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right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.
But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
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26 Jul 2005, 10:56
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#27
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Adelante
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 855
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
And there are Christian clerics who start Crusades, and force raped teenage girls to give birth, and comdemn condoms, and rape pre-pubescent boys by the score.....
One might almost be tempted to argue that not all adherents to a religion should be judged by their blackest sheep.
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Crusades where along time ago... And do remember the muslims attacked Europe both before and after the crusades... This was their crusades.
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26 Jul 2005, 11:04
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.
But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
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he would say ' told you so and now go and blow yourselfs up in public places all over the world'. and i have no doubt that more people would follow him after the bombing than now.
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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26 Jul 2005, 13:12
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#29
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.
But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
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He wouldn't be happy over the destruction, he would be happy that more people would join him.
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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26 Jul 2005, 13:19
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#30
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
And there are Christian clerics who start Crusades, and force raped teenage girls to give birth, and comdemn condoms, and rape pre-pubescent boys by the score.....
One might almost be tempted to argue that not all adherents to a religion should be judged by their blackest sheep.
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Well, I think condemning the Catholic church for their stance on abortion / contraception and failure to deal with child abuse seems fairly sensible. Condemning them for the Crusades seems a little silly however (unless the Catholic church is actively calling for more crusades).
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26 Jul 2005, 20:57
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#31
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
I think my point was that you cannot condemn every adherent of a religion for every action ever taken by any of their fellow adherents.
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I don't believe anyone here was suggesting otherwise; at least I certainly wasn't.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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27 Jul 2005, 01:24
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#32
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Indeed?
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Where exactly did I condemn every adherent of a religion?
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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27 Jul 2005, 02:12
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#33
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
You appeared to critisize the seeminlgy completely innocent Mohammad Noorzai for actions taken by other Moslems at other times and other places, and deny him the right to condemn Mr. Tancredo's statements.
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Not at all. Mr. Noorzai said "people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts." I simply pointed out that some prominent muslims have said (and done) some comparable things about the sites and texts of other religions. I don't wish to silence Mr. Noorsai at all, but to encourage him--and everyone, really--to condemn all such statements (and actions) whenever and wherever they occur.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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27 Jul 2005, 02:28
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#34
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Not at all. Mr. Noorzai said "people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts." I simply pointed out that some prominent muslims have said (and done) some comparable things about the sites and texts of other religions. I don't wish to silence Mr. Noorsai at all, but to encourage him--and everyone, really--to condemn all such statements (and actions) whenever and wherever they occur.
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clearly (on any reading of syntax grammar and logic) mr noorzai was commenting in reaction to a specific event/comment.
as such your gibberish is still wrong
your attempts to save face. to pretend you weren't wrong in the first place.
If i were to describe them as 'dutch' would you understand?
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hi
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27 Jul 2005, 03:18
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#35
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Ah the gentle art of persuasion.
I certainly recognize that it is important on GD that those who make mistakes not be allowed to save face.
Where would be the fun in that?
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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27 Jul 2005, 03:46
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#36
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mecca and Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I certainly recognize that it is important on GD that those who make mistakes not be allowed to save face.
Where would be the fun in that?
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aye
and one must also "trim the fat" if one is to have something worth (...)
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hi
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