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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 22:36   #1
Texan
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Mecca and Medina

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/...an.muslims.ap/
Congressman suggests way to retaliate for nuclear terror

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.

Rep. Tom Tancredo made his remarks Friday on WFLA-AM in Orlando, Florida. His spokesman stressed he was only speaking hypothetically.

Talk show host Pat Campbell asked the Littleton Republican how the country should respond if terrorists struck several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.

"Well, what if you said something like -- if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

"Yeah," Tancredo responded.

The congressman later said he was "just throwing out some ideas" and that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

Spokesman Will Adams said Sunday the four-term congressman doesn't support threatening holy Islamic sites but that Tancredo was grappling with the hypothetical situation of a terrorist strike deadlier than the September 11, 2001, attacks.

"We have an enemy with no uniform, no state, who looks like you and me and only emerges right before an attack. How do we go after someone like that?" Adams said.

"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said.

Tancredo is known in the House for his tough stand on immigration.

Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 22:44   #2
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Re: Mecca and Medina

go go world war 3
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 22:54   #3
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
go go world war 3
Many people consider the Cold War to be World War III. That would make the coming/current conflict World War IV. See http://www.ww4report.com/
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 22:59   #4
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Re: Mecca and Medina

So bombing Saudiarabia (american ally) will help?

So, will his support grow or fall?
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 22:59   #5
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Re: Mecca and Medina

He's just 'throwing' some thoughts out there you know. As if he were even capable of 'thinking.' Bombing Mecca. As if anybody there will have had anything to do with a terrorist attack. What an idiot.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 23:01   #6
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Many people consider the Cold War to be World War III. That would make the coming/current conflict World War IV. See http://www.ww4report.com/
heh, there hasnt been anything even close to a "world war" since the end of two. But this could become a stupid conversation about how to define world wars... so ill just say you are right
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 23:06   #7
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
heh, there hasnt been anything even close to a "world war" since the end of two. But this could become a stupid conversation about how to define world wars... so ill just say you are right
Thanks.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 23:23   #8
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
So, will his support grow or fall?
It probably doesn't help his chances in 2008. But you never can tell. The United States elected Bush twice. And nuked Japan twice.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 04:07   #9
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Re: Mecca and Medina

There will be no serious support for such an idiotic idea.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 04:25   #10
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Re: Mecca and Medina

i almost agree with this man
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 04:48   #11
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Re: Mecca and Medina

What a retard. He's a republican too, who'd have guessed?
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 10:27   #12
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Some people are just unhelpful.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 10:54   #13
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Re: Mecca and Medina

I don't really think you can appeal to a mutually-assured-destruction scenario when dealing with "terrorists" of this sort. The nuclear deterrent presumes a foe who is broadly following an earthly secular rationality of "not wanting to die" or "not wanting millions of innocent people to die".
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 11:14   #14
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Re: Mecca and Medina

and americans wonder why they have such a bad image in the rest of the world...
sigh.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 15:52   #15
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Another Republican ideologue from Hicksville talking out of their arse.

Welcome to the real world, big man.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 16:08   #16
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't really think you can appeal to a mutually-assured-destruction scenario when dealing with "terrorists" of this sort. The nuclear deterrent presumes a foe who is broadly following an earthly secular rationality of "not wanting to die" or "not wanting millions of innocent people to die".
I don't believe he proposed nuking Mecca et al., just bombing them.

It's a stupid idea either way though, of course.

I thought this part was amusing though:
Quote:
Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.
There are Muslim clerics who burn bibles or say they're going to take over the Vatican someday or destroy the wailing wall (or in the case of the Taliban, actually do blow up buddhas). Some sites and texts are more sacred then others, seemingly.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 16:13   #17
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus

There are Muslim clerics who burn bibles or say they're going to take over the Vatican someday or destroy the wailing wall (or in the case of the Taliban, actually do blow up buddhas). Some sites and texts are more sacred then others, seemingly.
he was quite obviously talking as an american muslim about american politicians.

Quote:
coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council
was a bit of a give away really.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 16:19   #18
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I don't believe he proposed nuking Mecca et al., just bombing them.
Oh. The ultimate response doesn't sound very ultimate then.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 16:23   #19
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

"Bombing" is ambiguous, but if you intended to "take out" Mecca or Medina, then you'd need a hell of a lot more than a handful of cruise missiles.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 16:34   #20
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Hahaha, some ppl really shouldnt be allowed to have serious jobs. What a politician...
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 18:24   #21
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Oh. The ultimate response doesn't sound very ultimate then.
I think destroying (just) the great mosque for example would be pretty ultimate, but I guess YMMV.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 18:45   #22
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
"Bombing" is ambiguous, but if you intended to "take out" Mecca or Medina, then you'd need a hell of a lot more than a handful of cruise missiles.
one cruise missile straight into the kaballah (or whatever that big black thing is called) would piss off muslims quite a lot though.

although of course it would miss.
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Unread 25 Jul 2005, 23:49   #23
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Re: Mecca and Medina

We could let the Brits do it and then we would probably find out that it was Brazilian.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 10:22   #24
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
He's just 'throwing' some thoughts out there you know. As if he were even capable of 'thinking.' Bombing Mecca. As if anybody there will have had anything to do with a terrorist attack. What an idiot.
Is about hurting the enemy which is fanatical borderless muslims... Sadly the idea would hit inocents, and it won't be done. But saying it is probably just to make muslims think twice, and give out the idea that nuclear weapons is to far even for muslims.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 10:28   #25
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Re: Mecca and Medina

i dont think so. bin laden would be quite happy if mecca gets bombed, that would give him a few 100,000 new recruits and supporters.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 10:44   #26
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Re: Mecca and Medina

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Originally Posted by wu_trax
i dont think so. bin laden would be quite happy if mecca gets bombed, that would give him a few 100,000 new recruits and supporters.
right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.

But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 10:56   #27
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
And there are Christian clerics who start Crusades, and force raped teenage girls to give birth, and comdemn condoms, and rape pre-pubescent boys by the score.....
One might almost be tempted to argue that not all adherents to a religion should be judged by their blackest sheep.
Crusades where along time ago... And do remember the muslims attacked Europe both before and after the crusades... This was their crusades.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 11:04   #28
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.

But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
he would say ' told you so and now go and blow yourselfs up in public places all over the world'. and i have no doubt that more people would follow him after the bombing than now.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 13:12   #29
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
right... U saying Bin Laden isn't a beliving muslim? No muslim would be happy if Mecca got bombed.

But imo if Europe or USA gets nuked by terrorist, i hope we destroy as much as possible of what the terrorists are working for.
He wouldn't be happy over the destruction, he would be happy that more people would join him.
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 13:19   #30
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
And there are Christian clerics who start Crusades, and force raped teenage girls to give birth, and comdemn condoms, and rape pre-pubescent boys by the score.....
One might almost be tempted to argue that not all adherents to a religion should be judged by their blackest sheep.
Well, I think condemning the Catholic church for their stance on abortion / contraception and failure to deal with child abuse seems fairly sensible. Condemning them for the Crusades seems a little silly however (unless the Catholic church is actively calling for more crusades).
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Unread 26 Jul 2005, 20:57   #31
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
I think my point was that you cannot condemn every adherent of a religion for every action ever taken by any of their fellow adherents.
I don't believe anyone here was suggesting otherwise; at least I certainly wasn't.
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Unread 27 Jul 2005, 01:24   #32
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Indeed?
Where exactly did I condemn every adherent of a religion?
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Unread 27 Jul 2005, 02:12   #33
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Exclamation Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
You appeared to critisize the seeminlgy completely innocent Mohammad Noorzai for actions taken by other Moslems at other times and other places, and deny him the right to condemn Mr. Tancredo's statements.
Not at all. Mr. Noorzai said "people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts." I simply pointed out that some prominent muslims have said (and done) some comparable things about the sites and texts of other religions. I don't wish to silence Mr. Noorsai at all, but to encourage him--and everyone, really--to condemn all such statements (and actions) whenever and wherever they occur.
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Unread 27 Jul 2005, 02:28   #34
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Not at all. Mr. Noorzai said "people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts." I simply pointed out that some prominent muslims have said (and done) some comparable things about the sites and texts of other religions. I don't wish to silence Mr. Noorsai at all, but to encourage him--and everyone, really--to condemn all such statements (and actions) whenever and wherever they occur.
clearly (on any reading of syntax grammar and logic) mr noorzai was commenting in reaction to a specific event/comment.

as such your gibberish is still wrong

your attempts to save face. to pretend you weren't wrong in the first place.

If i were to describe them as 'dutch' would you understand?
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Unread 27 Jul 2005, 03:18   #35
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Re: Mecca and Medina

Ah the gentle art of persuasion.

I certainly recognize that it is important on GD that those who make mistakes not be allowed to save face.

Where would be the fun in that?
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Unread 27 Jul 2005, 03:46   #36
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Re: Mecca and Medina

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Originally Posted by dda
I certainly recognize that it is important on GD that those who make mistakes not be allowed to save face.

Where would be the fun in that?
aye

and one must also "trim the fat" if one is to have something worth (...)
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