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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:04   #1
All Systems Go
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Angry I Hate Republicans/Fox News

I really ****ing hate Fox News. I was watching Sky News earlier and they had this interview about the Iraq suicide bombings and there was a Fox News reporter talking on there and he used the phrase 'homicide bomber'.

this now seems to have become the new right-wing slogan. I was watching C-Span (an American phone-in show on BBC Parliament) and all these inbred hicks were phoning in and kept using the phrase 'homicide bombers'. this, as one caller was kind enough to inform everyone, is the term that should replace the term 'suicide bomber' as they are committing homocide and the fact that they blow themselves up is inconsequential.

How ****ing stupid are these people? It makes no sense to use the term 'homicide bomber' as ANY NUT WITH WHO IS SUCESSFUL IN DETONATING A BOMB IN A POPULATED AREA IS A ****ING HOMICIDE BOMBER!

I'm not really sure what this stupid changing of phrase is meant to achieve except for possibly being an attempt to shift focus from discussion from the actual reasons for the bombings onto a absoutly pointless technial area so as to avoid any genuine thought.


****ing morons.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:26   #2
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

how old is this phrase though? I only heard it today for the first time but it already seems quite widespread.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:38   #3
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Ill only use the term if we replace 'homicide' (too american) with murder, then in the accent of that butler who helped the millionaire and his wife crime fighter duo from the 80s replace 'murder' with 'muuda'

meet Hasib Hussain he was an everyday kind of guy till he got on a bus and met shahara islam then it was a muuda.

*roll credits*

muuda bombers





its hot. ok. im a little woosy.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:46   #4
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Surely all bombings are homocide bombings ?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:48   #5
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

interesting. if they use a different phrase than the one used for the suicide bombers in Israel, maybe theyll manage to create the illusion that its something completly different. if they are lucky people may even start to think that its easier to win against 'homicide bombers' than against 'suicide bombers'.

ok, that doesnt make much sense. they are americans, probably they just love to invent terms that sound stupid.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:52   #6
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

hmm i think moida was closer to what the butler said.


It was moida.

Moida bombers.
Moida bombers.

I like it.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:53   #7
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Surely all bombings are homocide bombings ?
only if you're bombing dale winton
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 16:07   #8
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Surely all bombings are homocide bombings ?
it's only a 'homicide bombing' if the bomber kills himself in the process.

i'm not kidding.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:19   #9
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Exclamation Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
It makes no sense to use the term 'homicide bomber' as ANY NUT WITH WHO IS SUCESSFUL IN DETONATING A BOMB IN A POPULATED AREA IS A ****ING HOMICIDE BOMBER!
Once upon a time there used to be bombers who were neither suicidal nor (particularily) homicidal (George Metesky, New York's Mad Bomber for example). Just a historical curiosity now I suppose. :/
Quote:
I'm not really sure what this stupid changing of phrase is meant to achieve except for possibly being an attempt to shift focus from discussion from the actual reasons for the bombings onto a absoutly pointless technial area so as to avoid any genuine thought.
I disagree. I've always thought that the suicidal aspect of (many) terrorists attacks is not particularily relevent. If the 7/7 bombers had left their backpacks on the trains/bus and detonated them remotely (ala the Madrid bombers) would we view the attacks any differently? Would we think their motivations were any different?

I don't think the 'suicide' prefix adds any useful information. I don't think 'homocide' is any better though. Personally, I'd just call them terrorists (the BBC had the right idea, at least for a short time). Just calling them 'bombers' doesn't seem sufficient somehow, but I guess it's better than 'insurgents.'
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:26   #10
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

does anyone in britain (specifically in london) refer to the london bombings as '7/7'?

do the spanish call the madrid bombings 3/11?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:32   #11
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
does anyone in britain (specifically in london) refer to the london bombings as '7/7'?
I think there are certain media groups and newspapers (i.e. the sun) that want to turn this into 'our 9/11' or some such bollocks but I don't think it's really going to happen. I'm just thankful it is 7/7 rather than 7/8 which would confuse the hell out of our American allies.

Maybe I'm being too cynical and it is possible that they just use it because it's easier to fit on the page.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:33   #12
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
does anyone in britain (specifically in london) refer to the london bombings as '7/7'?

do the spanish call the madrid bombings 3/11?
Madrid was referred to as 11-M in Spanish newspapers, and i think it still is referred to as that. It's definitely not called 3/11 or 11/3.. Don't know if London's called anything other than the London bombings at the moment.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:42   #13
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Speaking as a stupid ****ing American who certainly can't claim the insight of a citizen of the UK or anywhere else, I suppose, who watches Fox News quite a bit, thus invalidating any reason I have for even being alive, I expect, "suicide bomber" seems to be an inarticulate phrase.

A "suicide bomber" would seem to indicated that it is a person who exploded a bomb in order to kill himself. Again, I'm just a stupid ****ing American, and thus a hick, but I really doubt that the point of their blowing themselves up was to end their own lives. This seems to just be a pleasant by-product of the exercise.

"Homicide bomber" is probably the most accurate in that at least in stupid ****ing America (SFUSA) a suicide is a subset of homicide. Thus homicide includes both the bomber and his victims. However, accuracy in description is probably not a prime concern of the news media.

In the Arab world they are probably refered to as martyr bombers.

"Murder bombers", probably, more accurately reflectsl the intent of the bomber but "homicide bomber" more accurately reflects the results of bombers.

And when one of them sets screws up and blows himself up along with most of his fellow martys wannabes we could call them "brilliant bombers."

Back to Fox for "Fair and Balanced" coverage.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 17:57   #14
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus

I disagree. I've always thought that the suicidal aspect of (many) terrorists attacks is not particularily relevent. If the 7/7 bombers had left their backpacks on the trains/bus and detonated them remotely (ala the Madrid bombers) would we view the attacks any differently? Would we think their motivations were any different?

absolutely.

the suicide aspect of the attack has certainly changed the way we look at the bombings and how we are now approaching the threat.

taking terrorist action because you hold extreme views and believe that action is necessary for furthering those views (eg. the IRA circa 1980s) is quite different from being willing to blow yourself up to further your extremist beliefs.

a curiosity so far of our reaction to the bombings is a distinct sense of pity towards the families and friends of the bombers themselves.

give the view (i'm sorry dda but it does have to be said) that americans take of suicide (including using the phrase "he murdered himself") I'm not surprised that american's can't understand how a suicide makes an act of bombing morally more disgusting. and i'll eat my hat if an american can comprehend how I and the good british public feel sympathy towards the families of the bombers.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:17   #15
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
Madrid was referred to as 11-M in Spanish newspapers, and i think it still is referred to as that. It's definitely not called 3/11 or 11/3.. Don't know if London's called anything other than the London bombings at the moment.
we americans really got screwed. Had we had the option, there is no question we would have gone with "The World Trade Center Bombing" or the "New York Bombing" or something like that.

Unfortunately,
A) There had already been a WTC bombing, making that unclear,
B) It wasn't just in New York, so anything with 'new york' in the name was out
C) It wasn't a bombing

"The Homicidal Jet Crashings of New York City, Washington D.C., and Somerset Country PA" never caught on, despite my best efforts.

And I would dispute the notion that the 'suicide' part of it is irrelevant. In such an attack, there are generally two questions:
1. What are the effects of the attack? How many killed, wounded, damages? Anyone I know?
and
2. What about the bastard that did this? Are we going to catch him, have we caught him, who was he?

the 'suidice' part answers question #2 pretty well. That's why everyone says "suicide bomber", or at least replaces "suicide" with something that means exactly the same thing (to them).
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:20   #16
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i'll eat my hat if an american can comprehend how I and the good british public feel sympathy towards the families of the bombers.
Start chomping away. Many Americans truly have sympathy for everyone but the bombers and their like minded compatriots.

We have capital punishment, but there are a lot of Americans who feel sympathy for the family of the condemned.

Sympathy for the familty of the accused is one of the strongest arguments used by defense attorneys because Americans (like most people I suspect) feel badly for anyone who is in pain that they didn't bring upon themselves.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:22   #17
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Speaking as a stupid ****ing American who certainly can't claim the insight of a citizen of the UK or anywhere else,
I don't believe anywhere in this has anyone referred to stupid ****ing Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I suppose, who watches Fox News quite a bit, thus invalidating any reason I have for even being alive,
then you know.

I expect, "suicide bomber" seems to be an inarticulate phrase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
A "suicide bomber" would seem to indicated that it is a person who exploded a bomb in order to kill himself.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Again, I'm just a stupid ****ing American, and thus a hick,
2+2=5?

Not all Americans are hicks. Not all Arabs are terrorists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
but I really doubt that the point of their blowing themselves up was to end their own lives. This seems to just be a pleasant by-product of the exercise.
It's hardly accidental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
"Homicide bomber" is probably the most accurate in that at least in stupid ****ing America (SFUSA) a suicide is a subset of homicide.
It means one of many things then, so it is vague and essentially meaningless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Thus homicide includes both the bomber and his victims.
Could be both, or just the bomber, or just the victim(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
However, accuracy in description is probably not a prime concern of the news media.
Generally correct, uness it benefits their opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
In the Arab world they are probably refered to as martyr bombers.
By their supporters, just like the aound the rest of the world. What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
And when one of them sets screws up and blows himself up along with most of his fellow martys wannabes we could call them "brilliant bombers."
Indeed.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:26   #18
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

I dislike Fox News because they make a "show" out of the news.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:28   #19
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

The phrase in the rest of the world, refers to the method of delivery. The word 'bomber' is used to indicate a person making or intending to set off an explosive device. Saying 'suicide' before bomber gives an indication on the manner in which the bomb was delivered to target and detonated.

Saying or trying to say the phrase 'suicide bomber' only indicates that the person intended to kill himself would make it a null statement. It wouldn't impart any useful information. What it does do is tell you how the explosive device was initiated. The target could be a train or an abstract monument that would result in noone else being hurt. It doesn't matter. The phrase isn't intended to describe the consequences of the action - that could be anything - but rather the action itself.


I don't agree that homicide is a subset of suicide, the dictionary specifically refers to another human being. Regardless even if we take it as defined, 'homicide bomber' would indicate anyone who intended to kill with their explosive device (as opposed to say scaring them). Why use it then only when the person has killed himself in the process (as acropolis pointed out).

I take it as granted that a bomber wants to cause harm, i haven't come across many bombers that want to make me jump. What is useful to know is how that bomber went about his business, in London for instance it reduced the pressure on the police slightly since the immediate purputrators were dead, in Madrid they weren't (and they found more bombs on train tracks a few days later).


If we're going to get anal about semantics (which we are) and view this in terms of consequences of an action instead of the action itself. Both the IRA and Al-Queda are 'homicide bombers'.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 18:44   #20
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Its like me saying

Homicide bomber is a phrase of the liberal elite and eurotrash :hate:hate: the word homicide does not indicate that it is the brutal killing of a large number of people. The liberal elite and much hated eurotrash :hate:hate: are wrong.

Slaughter bomber is the term we shall use. However we shall only use it where the slaughter bomber also kills himself.

what?


you seek to redefine a phrase in another framework (the consequences of the action). Ok fine then.

You say what the redefinition is, but then only use it in the original framework (the action itself).


what?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 19:26   #21
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

How about this for a few examples of what I would call 'inbred hicks'. these are real people who phoned in on C-Span:

1) the guy was rambling incoherently for a few minutes (all real words, but southernised and in the wrong order) until he was cut off

2) another guy phoned in with a personal problem, totally unrelated to the show

3) a woman phoned in to show her contempt for the UK government who used the 4 London suicide bombers as patis. She claimed the men thought they were part of an anti-terror mock-up and didn't know that the backpacks they were given had explosives in.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 19:49   #22
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I really [u]****ing[u] hate Fox News.
Good for you.

Quote:
I was watching C-Span (an American phone-in show on BBC Parliament) and all these inbred hicks were phoning in and kept using the phrase 'homicide bombers'. this, as one caller was kind enough to inform everyone, is the term that should replace the term 'suicide bomber' as they are committing homocide and the fact that they blow themselves up is inconsequential.
You weren't trying to indicate that the Americans calling in to the American phone-in show
were stupid ****ing Americans? I guess in you neightborhood "inbred hicks was a term of respect. Oh and C-Span doesn't =Fox News.

How [u]****ing[u] stupid are these people?[/quote]
Not refering to Americans I guess.

Quote:
It makes no sense to use the term 'homicide bomber' as ANY NUT WITH WHO IS SUCESSFUL IN DETONATING A BOMB IN A POPULATED AREA IS A [u]****ING{u} HOMICIDE BOMBER!
Okay, so............

Quote:
I'm not really sure what this stupid changing of phrase is meant to achieve except for possibly being an attempt to shift focus from discussion from the actual reasons for the bombings onto a absoutly pointless technial area so as to avoid any genuine thought.
How does this refocus anything?

[u]****ing[u] morons. [/quote]

A pleasantry.

Please note the underlined pharases. Forgive me if I thought that ****ing was a necessary modifier.
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Last edited by dda; 17 Jul 2005 at 19:51. Reason: quoted wrong
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 19:54   #23
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
How about this for a few examples of what I would call 'inbred hicks'. these are real people who phoned in on C-Span:

1) the guy was rambling incoherently for a few minutes (all real words, but southernised and in the wrong order) until he was cut off

2) another guy phoned in with a personal problem, totally unrelated to the show

3) a woman phoned in to show her contempt for the UK government who used the 4 London suicide bombers as patis. She claimed the men thought they were part of an anti-terror mock-up and didn't know that the backpacks they were given had explosives in.
a. these people didn't talk about rephrasing "suicide" to homicide"?

b. people in the UK never call in to talk shows to talk rubbish? They never get off thread? Could have fooled me.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 19:56   #24
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

dda you're being really stupid. just because he said the callers on C-Span were dickwits, he neither stated nor implied that all Americans were also.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:02   #25
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
b. people in the UK never call in to talk shows to talk rubbish? They never get off thread? Could have fooled me.
We have plenty of those all of the local BBC radio stations, 24/7, for starters.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:04   #26
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Exclamation Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
absolutely.

the suicide aspect of the attack has certainly changed the way we look at the bombings and how we are now approaching the threat.
Suicide attacks certainly present different technical problems in prevention, but I was referring to how people view them on a political and moral level.
Quote:
taking terrorist action because you hold extreme views and believe that action is necessary for furthering those views (eg. the IRA circa 1980s) is quite different from being willing to blow yourself up to further your extremist beliefs.
I don't see any difference tbh, although the IRA appears to have at least tried to avoid killing "civilians" on occasion.
Quote:
a curiosity so far of our reaction to the bombings is a distinct sense of pity towards the families and friends of the bombers themselves.

give the view (i'm sorry dda but it does have to be said) that americans take of suicide (including using the phrase "he murdered himself") I'm not surprised that american's can't understand how a suicide makes an act of bombing morally more disgusting. and i'll eat my hat if an american can comprehend how I and the good british public feel sympathy towards the families of the bombers.
I long ago gave up trying to comprehend you, but for myself it appears that the families of the bombers were unaware of their intentions and did nothing to encourage their actions. For that, they're also victims of terrorism and they have my sympathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
2. What about the bastard that did this? Are we going to catch him, have we caught him, who was he?

the 'suidice' part answers question #2 pretty well.
Only on a superficial level. The identity/-ies of the trigger man/men is rarely the end of the investigation. We always want to know if someone else was behind it (and in the case of terrorism, oddly enough, there usually does seem to be other people involved--people who planned it, who financed it, who provided weapons/explosives, who provided training, etc).
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:06   #27
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
You weren't trying to indicate that the Americans calling in to the American phone-in show were stupid ****ing Americans?
Did you phone in the show and act like an inbred hick? No? then I wasn't talking about you, try being a little less polar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I guess in you neightborhood "inbred hicks was a term of respect.
No it's not, neither is it blanket term for all Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Oh and C-Span doesn't =Fox News.
Ive never implied that it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Not refering to Americans I guess.
Only the inbred hicks who called in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Okay, so............
the term is pointless as a it is no longer descriptive. As said above the term suicide bomber tells you how the attack was carried out. Homicide bomber tells you nothing except that a bomber blew someone up, whether it was themselves or someone isn't clear or whether they had bomb strspped to their chest or in a car and detonated it with a remote control from 10 miles away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
How does this refocus anything?
What is the point of changing a phrase thav everyone familiar with and does exactly as it says on the tin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
A pleasantry.

Please note the underlined pharases. Forgive me if I thought that ****ing was a necessary modifier.
Where did I call all Americans ****ing stupid?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:08   #28
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

If Fox News bothers you so much, ASG, perhaps you should watch a different news program. It's kind of like the London Bombing Joke thread, you knew what you were going to get when you went there. If you were just going to get upset, stay away.

Though I suspect you watch Fox News for the same reason the ***holes complained in the London Bombing Joke thread.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:13   #29
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
a. these people didn't talk about rephrasing "suicide" to homicide"?

b. people in the UK never call in to talk shows to talk rubbish? They never get off thread? Could have fooled me.
a) they weren't the only guests, just the worst of a pretty bad bunch.

b) Yes, we call them chavs, the urban equivalant of inbred hicks.
Sometimes they go off topic but at least they generally start on topic.

the number of call-in shows we have is very small. We have a mall country so they generally have live studio audiences, so the questions are not nrmally too bad.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:19   #30
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
If Fox News bothers you so much, ASG, perhaps you should watch a different news program.
I wasn't watching Fox News. I was watching Sky News and the presenter started talking to a Fox News reporter live from Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
It's kind of like the London Bombing Joke thread, you knew what you were going to get when you went there. If you were just going to get upset, stay away.
See above.

And the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Though I suspect you watch Fox News for the same reason the ***holes complained in the London Bombing Joke thread.
Wrong again. Did you actually read any of the posts in this thread or did ou just come here to complain like an asshole?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:27   #31
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt

Its sometimes difficult
to follow the reasoning everyone is putting across

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
when threads turn to this
it'd probably be better for everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt

to make a concise and articulate argument
and for any one opposing to do likewise


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt

this on the other hand can lead to tangentiality on a thread
as every sentence is scrutinised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt

and commented upon
even though it may not be significant to the thought being put across
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:29   #32
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Wrong again. Did you actually read any of the posts in this thread or did ou just come here to complain like an asshole?
I wan't complaining. Just making a suggestion. I realize now it was a BAD suggestion. Perhaps you should also not watch Sky News.

I actually came to this thread to see why you hated Republicans. I have no opinion of Fox News, because I have never watched it.

I'm guessing you wanted us to believe that American hicks who call Fox News vote Republican. Not sure about that part though.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:37   #33
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
although the IRA appears to have at least tried to avoid killing "civilians" on occasion.
excuse me?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:58   #34
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

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Originally Posted by Phang
excuse me?
sometimes they gave warnings before, didnt they? you dont do that if you go for maximum casulties.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 20:59   #35
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I wan't complaining. Just making a suggestion. I realize now it was a BAD suggestion. Perhaps you should also not watch Sky News.
Looks that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I actually came to this thread to see why you hated Republicans.
I have a general dislike of most right-wing ideas. As I was talking about the ideas of right-wing Americans I used the phrase Republican.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I have no opinion of Fox News, because I have never watched it.
Good for you. See t&f's first reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I'm guessing you wanted us to believe that American hicks who call Fox News vote Republican. Not sure about that part though.
I'd imagine the right-wing ones do.

If you have ever seen Fox News you will notice it is very biased towards the Republican Party and very critical of 'wet pussy liberals'. the best example would be the O'Riely(?) show. Absolute headcase.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 21:14   #36
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I'd imagine the right-wing ones do.
I guess people who call Fox News are more likely to vote Republican, but I suspect most hicks fall into the category of 160 million or so people who don't vote at all.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 21:19   #37
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I guess people who call Fox News are more likely to vote Republican, but I suspect most hicks fall into the category of 160 million or so people who don't vote at all.
I would imagine that most hicks are rednecks i.e. members of rural communities from the southern states. I base this on the fact that the South generally give the image of being if not Repulbican the highly conservative, patriotic and very religious.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 21:21   #38
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I've always thought that the suicidal aspect of (many) terrorists attacks is not particularily relevent. If the 7/7 bombers had left their backpacks on the trains/bus and detonated them remotely (ala the Madrid bombers) would we view the attacks any differently? Would we think their motivations were any different?'
I'd say yes. Not just for technical reasons as you've already addressed, but it does change their (presumed) motivation. People fighting a war (or what they may see as a war) often might be prepared to die, but setting out to kill yourself in the first place is different to me. If nothing else, it seems de-facto irrational (or rather, irrational without adopting a religious fundamentalist viewpoint).

Obviously it doesn't make them worse/better in some absolute moral sense.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 21:41   #39
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I would imagine that most hicks are rednecks i.e. members of rural communities from the southern states. I base this on the fact that the South generally give the image of being if not Repulbican the highly conservative, patriotic and very religious.
I think that generally mmbers of rural communities in southern states are not particularly conservative or religious when they are young but become more so as they get older. Not sure about patriotism. It seems to me about the same throughout the United States, but people from the south are more likely to outwardly display their patriotism. This of course comes from my limited knowledge of the United States. I've worked with thousands of Americans from all over the United States, but I have not visited most of the states.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 23:15   #40
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Suicide attacks certainly present different technical problems in prevention, but I was referring to how people view them on a political and moral level.
that was why i used the phrase "morally more disgusting"

but let's try agai shall we. with an example of three people

Person one: hates you so much that he will swear at you

Person two: hates you so much that he is prepared to kill you

Person three: hates you so much that he is prepared to kill you and will kill himself in the process to guarentee success.

this should show you why the suicide element of the phrase 'suicide bomber' is essential. it highlights how much morally more disgusting the act is.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 00:01   #41
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
Madrid was referred to as 11-M in Spanish newspapers, and i think it still is referred to as that. It's definitely not called 3/11 or 11/3.. Don't know if London's called anything other than the London bombings at the moment.
Here (in spain) they´re referring to it as 7-J.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 10:01   #42
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

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Originally Posted by Nusselt
Ill only use the term if we replace 'homicide' (too american) with murder, then in the accent of that butler who helped the millionaire and his wife crime fighter duo from the 80s replace 'murder' with 'muuda'
I believe his name was Max, I loved Hart to Hart
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 14:23   #43
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
that was why i used the phrase "morally more disgusting"

but let's try agai shall we. with an example of three people

Person one: hates you so much that he will swear at you

Person two: hates you so much that he is prepared to kill you

Person three: hates you so much that he is prepared to kill you and will kill himself in the process to guarentee success.

this should show you why the suicide element of the phrase 'suicide bomber' is essential. it highlights how much morally more disgusting the act is.
I don't really see how 3 is morally more disgusting than 2 though. if someone was going to (try to) kill me, I would confess to being rather glad that they were dead too after the attempt.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 14:24   #44
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Here (in spain) they´re referring to it as 7-J.

lets think of a stupid name for the London bombings then. sevsev maybe. though I think "The London Bombings" is probably how this will be remembered.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 14:37   #45
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
I don't really see how 3 is morally more disgusting than 2 though. if someone was going to (try to) kill me, I would confess to being rather glad that they were dead too after the attempt.
Have to agree here. Someone willing to kill themselves to kill me would probably worry me slightly more than someone who "just" wanted me dead, but it wouldn't seem morally worse.

If anything, at least they're not cowardly...
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 14:43   #46
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

let's put it into maths for those who prefer figures to people.

Person one: wishes to do no physical harm. (he's our 'control')

Person two: is willing to kill one human being MORALLY WRONG

Person three: is willing to kill two human beings MORALLY WORSE

but we could just waffle on about how we personally would feel if we were killed if you'd prefer.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 14:52   #47
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

they do the same thing to themselfs as they do to you. to me thats not entirely as bad as a simple cold booded murder.
ofc, that says nothing about the people who pick and brainwash the people who later become suicide bombers. (oh, and once you are dead, you probably wont care about it one way or the other)
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 15:00   #48
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
let's put it into maths for those who prefer figures to people.

Person one: wishes to do no physical harm. (he's our 'control')

Person two: is willing to kill one human being MORALLY WRONG

Person three: is willing to kill two human beings MORALLY WORSE

but we could just waffle on about how we personally would feel if we were killed if you'd prefer.
but if one of those people is themselves, then I don't see a problem with that, certainly no moral issues involved.

If it was one person who is willing to kill you in order to send you to hell and also so s/he can go to heaven and get his (what do the female suicide bombers get?) seventy two virgins, I would probably think that was a bit more immoral, because it also involves some kind of greed, even though I think the concept of heaven and hell are a bit silly.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 15:01   #49
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
but if one of those people is themselves, then I don't see a problem with that, certainly no moral issues involved.
no you must be right

human life isn't inherently sacred is it.

my mistake.
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Unread 18 Jul 2005, 15:02   #50
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Re: I Hate Republicans/Fox News

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Originally Posted by dda
...
Back to Fox for "Fair and Balanced" coverage.
You know. I genuinely cant tell if you are attempting to be sarcastic in the whole post ( using the " s so much for instance ), or if you geniunely believe all that.
I sure as hell hope its the first option

I blame my lack of coffee this morning and the fact im massively jetlagged
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