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Unread 30 Nov 2012, 18:15   #51
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

in the past i have agreed but then i thought about it. is every single zik ship a steal ship? is every single cathaaaaaaargh ship an EMP ship?

fair is fair.
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Unread 30 Nov 2012, 18:17   #52
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

The Xandathrii cloaking technology is of danger to the universe enviroment. With the rapid growth of new black holes, the universe carepolice have forced the race to face out their old cloaking technology.
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Unread 30 Nov 2012, 19:26   #53
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
....is every single zik ship a steal ship? is every single cathaaaaaaargh ship an EMP ship?
In both of those cases there is some logic in the race choosing to have (lower tech) kill ships to supplement their race characteristics. I can think of no circumstances in which a race which was capable of cloaking its ships would choose not to do so.

Non-cloaked capital ships could be explained as being too large to be effectively cloaked - but I can't think of an explanation which covers (only) the smaller classes.

Edit. Actually, I suppose non-cloaked smaller ships could be a "logical" choice if they were significantly cheaper/stronger than their cloaked counterparts.
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Unread 30 Nov 2012, 19:39   #54
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

why are pods not cloaked then..


time to get your head around it pals, balance>realism
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Unread 30 Nov 2012, 19:59   #55
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Better ask the original game designers that question - although several possible explanations spring to mind. It would be harder to justify SKs being non-cloaked - especially if they're not Cr/BS class.

As for the balance > realism aspect I disagree. Without at least a semblance of internal consistency the game cannot maintain the "suspension of disbelief" which is essential if we are all not suddenly to realise that we're doing nothing more than entering numbers into a database.
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Unread 1 Dec 2012, 02:23   #56
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I love me some database.

No, not really.


Anywho, keep up the good work mz.
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Unread 1 Dec 2012, 13:14   #57
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I concur with the people who've prioritized balanced over in-context realism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
TER:
Harpy: ERes 76 -> 78

CAT:
Spider: Arm 9 -> 10, ERes 59 -> 60
Beetle: Guns 6 -> 7, Arm 15 -> 16, Cost 321 -> 342, ERes 72 -> 74
Viper: Arm 12 -> 13
Locust: 72 -> 70, Dmg 42 -> 40
Roach: Guns 9 -> 10, Arm 104 -> 107
Tarantula: Arm 142 -> 130, Cost 3133 -> 2800, ERes 65 -> 61
Scorpion: Arm 226 -> 249

XAN:
Vsharrak: Cost 93 -> 102, ERes 8 -> 22
Pulsar: Cost 111 -> 123, ERes 26 -> 29
Bolt Thrower: Cost 399 -> 420
Fireblade: Cost 600 -> 630
Ghost: Cost 999 -> 1050
Peacekeeper: Cost 3501 -> 3600
Illusion: Cost 109 -> 120, ERes 22 -> 27
Vampyre: Cost 798 -> 876

ZIK:
Cutlass: Arm 20 -> 21, Dmg 16 -> 18
Thief: ERes 70 -> 71
Clipper: Arm: 80 -> 82, Dmg 63 -> 57
Rogue: Arm 225 -> 230, Dmg 195 -> 180

ETD:
Ranger: Arm 20 -> 21
Investor: Arm 27 -> 33
Broker: Guns 9 -> 10, Arm 85 -> 90
Tycoon: Arm 135 -> 140, Dmg 125 -> 143
Rambler: Arm 24 -> 25
Bailiff: Arm 97 -> 106
(Doing my best, Cochese!)

[edit] Hm. I totally failed to realise that you can boost Co by nerfing the Clipper and Dealer.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 1 Dec 2012 at 13:43. Reason: All changes uploaded.
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Unread 2 Dec 2012, 09:28   #58
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

A cutlass that doesn't kill
A thief that doesn't steal
Invert the names is what i feel
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Unread 2 Dec 2012, 09:52   #59
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

.....
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Unread 2 Dec 2012, 10:01   #60
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

this looks like a very promising set

too bad i lost all motivation to play another round of PA
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Unread 2 Dec 2012, 10:32   #61
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
A cutlass that doesn't kill
A thief that doesn't steal
Invert the names is what i feel
Fair enough. Consider it done.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 2 Dec 2012, 23:13   #62
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

So im looking at these zik stats and i see no point for Co to exist..... They cant roid into anything except cath. Thats pretty bad. If they only have attack into cath then they will never be able to cap roids.

Cutlass -> init 6 would help fix that.

Also mara will never be able to do anything vs ghost firing 1st and ter de has so much armor 600 a/c vs the 360 d/c on mara.
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Unread 3 Dec 2012, 01:11   #63
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So im looking at these zik stats and i see no point for Co to exist..... They cant roid into anything except cath. Thats pretty bad. If they only have attack into cath then they will never be able to cap roids.

Cutlass -> init 6 would help fix that.

Also mara will never be able to do anything ghost firing 1st and ter de has so much armor 600 a/c vs the 360 d/c on mara.
I agree that upping the strength is a good thing but don't forget that zik having the same pod class add cath makes team ups very powerful. I know everyone moans about teams but it is a team game so it isn't unreasonable to think cats and ziks wont team which does help compensate. In fact at this rate I'm going to play zik, find an accommodating cat friend and build primarily corvette.

It is a struggle to raid solo with it but playing with the calc I don't find it to restricted.

Anyway, I know we shouldn't aim for stats that encourage teams but players will always team regardless so 'see it as an added benefit'
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Unread 3 Dec 2012, 03:05   #64
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Then why not just play all cath? That way you can still solo and your teams are better then if you have ziks's
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Unread 3 Dec 2012, 07:43   #65
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Or better yet actually make zik Co all Steal change Cutlass to steal with good a/c D/c and that'll do a lot for zik co because value will then win calcs.
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Unread 4 Dec 2012, 15:56   #66
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I already see the Defwhores with pure Peacekeeper fleets covering 3 DE incs ingal...
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Unread 4 Dec 2012, 17:11   #67
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Ehh? Ter DE you mean? Xan DE kills PK's before they shoot.
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Unread 4 Dec 2012, 17:56   #68
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
I already see the Defwhores with pure Peacekeeper fleets covering 3 DE incs ingal...
theres always ships people can spam and def 3 fleets with ingal..
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Unread 4 Dec 2012, 18:00   #69
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

You know very well what would happen to a all cath ally/gal/bp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Then why not just play all cath? That way you can still solo and your teams are better then if you have ziks's
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Unread 4 Dec 2012, 19:09   #70
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
I already see the Defwhores with pure Peacekeeper fleets covering 3 DE incs ingal...
As you yourself said, building only [Peacekeepers] has advantages and disadvantages.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 5 Dec 2012, 02:36   #71
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I see why you kept them cloaked...
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Unread 5 Dec 2012, 08:31   #72
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

They're infinitely worse than Widows were in r49. This is a not a problem and I see no reason to do anything about it.

I haven't really done much work on my stats these last few days, and I'm not getting a lot of response either. That leads me to believe we're getting close to balance, and in any case, I'm getting to the point that I'm unwilling to put much more time into them until I know they're being used.

The first half of making stats is a lot of fun, but the last straws are pretty boring. I'll be glad to do them, but only if they actually end up getting used.

Ball's in your court, Appoco!
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 08:53   #73
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Well, I hope we can get a confirmation as soon as r49 is over that this set will be r50 stats.
Still weird that with 2 stealing races, none of them is able to steal FR or DE... I would have made the Interceptor a CO with DE as T2...
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 09:58   #74
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

There's too much Co firing at De and De firing at Co as is, tbh. It's something I'm not really happy with, but with 2 De fleets and 2 Co fleets, and no Fi/Fr/De firing at De, that's really not something I can improve. You need a lot of Co firing at De, because it's the only class that can make ally ETA. Similarly, because there's a lot of Co firing at De, you need a lot of De firing at Co.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 11:25   #75
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

geezus, why we always have to turn the stats upside down every round, cant we just tweak the ones we have into being slightly less boring?
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 11:32   #76
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

We should definitely do that.

The reason I didn't do it for these stats is that tweaking existing stats is boring. I made these stats to amuse myself. They ended up being decent enough to actually be used only as a side-effect.
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Unread 7 Dec 2012, 23:54   #77
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Any word from appoco? Hopefully with in the next week he'll say if we are using these stats.
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Unread 8 Dec 2012, 00:52   #78
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I made Appoco aware of the last few posts in this thread. No response yet, but like you said, hopefully I'll get one this week. Until that response is here, I won't be putting any more work into these stats. They're pretty decent now, and everything from here on out is quite frankly going to be rather boring. Not that I'm not willing to do it, but not without knowing for sure what their destination will be: trash can or round whatever.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 9 Dec 2012, 09:40   #79
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Weall know he will respond in the first week of January... making it a last minute rush again to get the stats ready and they will then be fudged up by him tampering with them before tick start....
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Unread 17 Dec 2012, 14:58   #80
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Ok, I got confirmation that these stats will indeed be used for round 50. I never knew I had a fanclub.

I'll be fairly busy at work for a few more days, so I probably won't continue working on them until this weekend.

Nevertheless, feel free to continue making suggestions, preferably in this thread. I expect to still need quite a few A/C and D/C changes. Barring massive oversights by yours truly, I don't plan to accept any suggestions beyond adding a target here or there, if that, so adjust your expectations accordingly.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 20 Dec 2012, 09:27   #81
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

All of this init 7 fire needs to be fixed because its going to make it VERY hard to attack with these stats....


Atm:
Ter De Roids: Xan Fi w/o Hulls 3
Zik w/o Hulls 3
Etd All
Ter Bs Roids: Zik

Cat Co Roids Almost all, Save for the De Planets.

Cat Cr roids All

Xan Fi Roids: Zik All
Ter All

Xan De Roids: Zik Non-cr planets
Etd All

Zik Fi/Co Roids: Cath

Zik Bs roids: Cath


Etd Fi Roids Ter All

Etd Fr Roids Xan All

Etd Cr Roids Etd Fr
Cat All


Thats pretty shitty and I'm not listing targets that will need Heavily 1 sided fleets or mass team ups because thats not whats needed when making stats. Most of these same init fire ships need to be changed to either have much higher or lower a/c and d/c, OR Change some of the init to give specific ships an advantage.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 01:19   #82
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I'm not in total opposition of tia on this one - wtf??

A lot of possible solo attks ends up being dependant on cath flak, with the current number of same inits across the classes.

However I'm not in favour of dumping/boosting the A/c D/c, as it ends up balancing defence options in a wrong way.

But making a few changes, like making cutlass a 19/steal - switching targets on interceptor/merchant. In order to minimize the cath needed to land in general.

Again, it's the discussion if we want everything, to land on everyone like two rounds ago, or nothing to land on noone like last round.

I can live without mass solo options, but then again others most likely disagree.

In the end alliances end up using cath as their means to land/def if there's too few options, and that is annoying in my book.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 11:53   #83
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I don't view the init 7 ships as a big deal. Currently it's only fireblade/dealer -shooting at cutlass/arrowhead and bolt thrower shooting at rogues that have the same inits. Not really a huge deal if you ask me.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 12:04   #84
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

So Cath,Etd and Xan can roid almost anything and we have to few attack possibilites ?
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 12:48   #85
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Xan cant roid anything. They really can only roid Ter solo and Ziks that dont go Co. Etd Stop them easy, Cath with value stop them, Thiefs are very effective vs xan fi. And De is just a Joke, Arrowhead, Cutlass, Viper will all be around and any of those will cause xan De to recall.


Cath have always been able to roid just about anything given the right fleet compositions.

Etd Has 1 roiding target for each of its 3 attack classes, and even Fr is going to have a hard time landing on Xan Fi.

So no.. there that many attack possibilities. I also don't this round being anywhere close to an even race distribution. I see ALOT of Xan's and Caths and few Ter's to Fort with the Xan's.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 16:49   #86
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

I went over the attack fleets again to see how defense was holding up. The full list of changes I made, as a result of that perusal, you may find below. For the most part, I've made defense ships weaker, insofar as they did not form part of attacking fleets as well.

Additionally, I've nerfed Ter De, boosted Xan Fi against Cat and the boosted Xan De. I've also attempted to prevent the Cutlass from becoming too much like round 49's Lancer. That last change is fairly small, but I may push it a bit further, if need be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
Harpy: Cost 300 -> 315, ERes 78 -> 82, Arm 18 -> 19
Pegasus: Dmg 73 -> 71
Drake: Dmg 77 -> 72
Roach: Arm 107 -> 110, Cost 2300 -> 2364, ERes 53 -> 54
Vsharrak: ERes 22 -> 28
Pulsar: ERes 29 -> 33
Bolt Thrower: Dmg 16 -> 15
Fireblade: Dmg 25 -> 26
Ghost: Arm 37 -> 39
Peacekeeper: Dmg 152 -> 146
Illusion: ERes 27 -> 31
Vampyre: ERes 52 -> 50
Corsair: Cost 180 -> 190, ERes 62 -> 64
Cutlass: Arm 14 -> 13, Cost 300 -> 306
Marauder: Arm 165 -> 160, Dmg 105 -> 100
Smuggler: ERes 77 -> 78
Dealer: Arm 78 -> 72
Tycoon: Dmg 143 -> 132
I'll also repeat my earlier request for calcs when you make points. I cannot be arsed to follow up on vague objections without supporting evidence. I'll act upon hard facts, not handwaving and scaremongering.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 17:41   #87
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Etd Has 1 roiding target for each of its 3 attack classes, and even Fr is going to have a hard time landing on Xan Fi.
How can etd fr not roid every race? I'm not saying etd fr can roid every planet(obviously xans whoring fi and ter/ziks whoring bs will be hard to stop), but that just means they're wide-open vs other races.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So no.. there that many attack possibilities. I also don't this round being anywhere close to an even race distribution. I see ALOT of Xan's and Caths and few Ter's to Fort with the Xan's.
I don't see how you can say caths look stronger than most other races tbh. They have to build three shipsclasses, five total ships, and as cath is a caths primary enemy more caths = bad for caths. And first you say xans can't attack anything, before then saying everyone is going to go cath!? Are you trying to seem dafter than you are or what?
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 21:56   #88
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Ok, i'll Make all your Calcs for SOLO attacks.

Cat Co:
vs Xan(fi) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=aw10ecb2ercwcbt
vs Xan(De) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wadecfzq7w93m40

vs Ter(bs) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=7ary0d1dpedwgco
vs Ter(De) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ur3fvpezr58zh0v

vs Cat (co) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=bh9bui9d2zr2ry5
vs Cat (Cr) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=hq3hcf4s2ljomew

vs zik(co) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=7l117os50k5n8lw
vs Zik(Bs) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dk8aehm7xy6n90l

vs etd(Fr) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dss8vh8uoch7w3k
vs etd(cr) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1t7vki10zl08qcb


Now if you want I'll make all the calcs. But with a basic Cat fleet as I said, they cant roid any of the De planets because they have too much flack, also zik is off limits because of the t2 co on beetle and the low eff vs thief. that leaves Etd because they have no De flack to give, and Xan fi which they do very well vs. The point I want to make with all this, it should be pretty easy to attack in a limited targeting round. But if Cath cant even attack most races with 150% eff then something is wrong...
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 22:29   #89
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

According to your calcs, Cat Co works against Xan Fi, Cat Co, Cat Cr and Etd Cr. I have no problem with that.

[edit] And Ter Bs too. And Zik Bs. So basically the only thing it doesn't work against is De.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 21 Dec 2012 at 22:46.
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Unread 21 Dec 2012, 23:43   #90
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

And that is what i had said in my 1st post. So basiclly if cath can solo vs almost everything why wouldnt people choose it?
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 00:37   #91
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Cath is always able to solo everything, everyone doesn't go cath because of that due to the fact that EVERY RACE CAN ROID CATH.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 00:50   #92
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Yes but if no other race can attack into the other then why would someone choose ter/zik/etd?,

My point that I'm trying to make is, fix some of the def ships.

Ter De is fine, as it actually fires before all the co. And since cr/bs is out of ally def its ok for them to have adv.
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=qo0nl4yq16qrxqe
Xan(hulls3): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mzniy3noxql7gyb
Ter: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=uahsfk9t4ltw548
Cat(co): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=bu6v62yn7w70dcl
Cat(Cr): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rbblbyhrcs03vel
Zik(co): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wlg5mg64j49h037
Zik(bs): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=e5po0oaymnvnzf6
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=v1plyk8sjlxn64r


Ter Bs Is ok but the problem that im seeing will be a problem from zik bs as well, Ghost is just too good, even at t2 Every Xan will have them and a faster ETA ally def cloaked ship is going to make it impossible for BS to be played.
Ter: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wrir0t7ztmzc0e8
Cat: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=w4xua2jbvz1lpqw
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=v2u1zlq25v3w96w
Zik: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9r8n2cn7fegnp1q
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dr1s1ppthvumhk2
As for the Dragon I think it either need more A/c OR more D/c because right now it'll be real easy for cr planets to cover any ter bs inc with just 1 def ship. Tara and Tycoon fire 1st, and dragon doesnt hit back hard enough for it to matter.

Xan Fi Is perfect the way it is, can attack into alot of races, Ter/Zik/Cat(cr) Xan vs Xan is always a problem. Etd fires 1st but thats ingal/pl only and it doenst fire at too much D/C.

Xan De, just wow... It bad, fireblade/arrowhead/cutlass all fire at the Same init, If you drop Fireblade to init 6 and lower the a/c to like 300 it'll be much better.
I am also worried that Xan A/c is much higher than Ter D/c and i've usually associated the two with being the same.

I have already gone over Cath so Zik
Co Unless the Fireblade gets changed there options are... Cath . They cant attack
Ter: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=cgph7ftdqtwv3eo
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0s5w60upb4shx3d
Xan De:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8mpq2umqlt34s1i
Steal vs Steal is stupid but they Cant Attack other zik Co
Zik Co:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tylnepafkprc8hk
And if Ziks are gona be using Clipper then sure have that free roiding.......
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=sh2bqy3wpvcoty5

So something's got to Give for that attack fleet.

Zik Bs:
Vs Ter(De) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=gf5iawj1fja7li0
Vs Ter(harpy) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p856z8hap5dcxve

So if Ter's are using harpy they will be able to roid them.

Cat:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=2txjgtyuqsbyltv

Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=aj4f3u2nox29fbj

Zik is a no brainer Mara's will always win over the Bs even if they are in smaller numbers because the init adv, If you were to switch Mara and Pirate init then Zik could roid other ziks and avoid the same problem we had this past round with Ter Bs and syrens.
Zik: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=f9t3mt9g6nq60h8

Etd(cr): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=gugqisegbn605jx
Etd(Fr): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1017w9qqmehhdng

So yes Zik bs has more attack options and can do Ok vs some races, but because of some bad init fights they cant really attack as they covered by atleast 3 different def ships.

Etd,

Fr is going to do Pretty well vs xan's
Xan:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ck5yd8e3r8th54h
Ziks: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wibg276kok0ujvi
Zik(bs): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ogjju64qzpb04ab
Cat: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=5dw26aicc53cfd2
Cat(scorp) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mdgjlxg8ghxkikl
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=w9c61083xrmtqxs

So that makes Etd fr good to attack into Xan/Cat/Etd, and If Maximized right Ziks.


ETd Cr:
Ter(de) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rjzga068qqaf86b
Ter(bs) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p4ny3kupyltljzi
Cat: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=owxcm6w7wdo6dxi
Xan(De): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kskbfesxnzg21ah
Xan (fi): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=jdneojw3yc0kzzp
Zik(Co): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=akdffz9w49h7b8l
Zik (bs): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=f8wbqqhx1629cq0
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p1qv8ot079vxps0

So By far some work needs to be Done. De fleets are going to be Super Strong defensively but not so good on the attacks.
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Last edited by Tiamat101; 22 Dec 2012 at 01:53.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 09:12   #93
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Ter Bs Is ok but the problem that im seeing will be a problem from zik bs as well, Ghost is just too good, even at t2 Every Xan will have them and a faster ETA ally def cloaked ship is going to make it impossible for BS to be played.
Ter: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wrir0t7ztmzc0e8
Cat: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=w4xua2jbvz1lpqw
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=v2u1zlq25v3w96w
Zik: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9r8n2cn7fegnp1q
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dr1s1ppthvumhk2
As for the Dragon I think it either need more A/c OR more D/c because right now it'll be real easy for cr planets to cover any ter bs inc with just 1 def ship. Tara and Tycoon fire 1st, and dragon doesnt hit back hard enough for it to matter.
I'm not opposed to giving Ter Bs some more juice. Added to my list of things I might change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Xan De, just wow... It bad, fireblade/arrowhead/cutlass all fire at the Same init, If you drop Fireblade to init 6 and lower the a/c to like 300 it'll be much better.
I envision that Xan De will mostly be used in fortresses with Ter De. Making it too strong offensively would therefore be a bad idea. However, I recognize that Xan De is not very good at the moment. I've already given them a little boost, and might give them some more. We'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I am also worried that Xan A/c is much higher than Ter D/c and i've usually associated the two with being the same.
This is intentional. Ter has gotten a 50-100 point boost to its A/C compared to the last 10 rounds, and I've dropped their D/C somewhat to compensate. This is an attempt to make their race characteristics stand out more, like they did in earlier days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I have already gone over Cath so Zik
Co Unless the Fireblade gets changed there options are... Cath . They cant attack
Ter: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=cgph7ftdqtwv3eo
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0s5w60upb4shx3d
Xan De:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8mpq2umqlt34s1i
Steal vs Steal is stupid but they Cant Attack other zik Co
Zik Co:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tylnepafkprc8hk
And if Ziks are gona be using Clipper then sure have that free roiding.......
Etd: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=sh2bqy3wpvcoty5

So something's got to Give for that attack fleet.
Zik attack options are always mediocre at best. Zik Co has a lot of nice steal options (much more so than Zik Bs), so I'm hesitant to improve them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Zik Bs:
Vs Ter(De) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=gf5iawj1fja7li0
Vs Ter(harpy) http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p856z8hap5dcxve
So if Ter's are using harpy they will be able to roid them.

Cat:http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=2txjgtyuqsbyltv
Xan: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=aj4f3u2nox29fbj

Zik: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=f9t3mt9g6nq60h8
Zik is a no brainer Mara's will always win over the Bs even if they are in smaller numbers because the init adv, If you were to switch Mara and Pirate init then Zik could roid other ziks and avoid the same problem we had this past round with Ter Bs and syrens.

Etd(cr): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=gugqisegbn605jx
Etd(Fr): http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1017w9qqmehhdng
So yes Zik bs has more attack options and can do Ok vs some races, but because of some bad init fights they cant really attack as they covered by atleast 3 different def ships.
The Marauder init is intentional and I won't change it. I might lower it's D/C, but then again, it's only really good against 1 single attack fleet out of 10.

Holy shit, the Scorpion is terrible. I might even change around the targetting there, because its utterly ****ing useless.

Etd Cr has been a bit of a problem in my stats from the start. Might boost the Broker.



Don't expect any changes today, but I will probably make some tomorrow.



P.S. If everyone wrote posts in this manner, I'd be a happy man.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 09:29   #94
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post

The Marauder init is intentional and I won't change it. I might lower it's D/C, but then again, it's only really good against 1 single attack fleet out of 10.

So basiclly your going to make zik the best counter to zik?

Right now thiefs cover Zik co, and Mara cover zik Bs and early/mid/Late wont change that.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=2chxq2ehd24wo3o
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ubvn3an9jpedjkm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I envision that Xan De will mostly be used in fortresses with Ter De. Making it too strong offensively would therefore be a bad idea. However, I recognize that Xan De is not very good at the moment. I've already given them a little boost, and might give them some more. We'll see.
If you Drop the init on Ghost to 8 and Bolt Thrower to init 6 then it would work about a bit better, Because Then they'd be building out of class and T1'd by Wyvren. Ill post more later when i have some more time.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 11:04   #95
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I really don't see the problem with DE being very strong defensively but weak offensively, always nice to have one fleet like that imo. SHouldn't make the xan de too good.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 12:11   #96
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

As it stands right now Xan will be So easy to use a "cousin" planets for ingal app/ult Forts. Mainly because ghost is too good and kills an entire meta class.

If the class is too strong defensivly then why wouldnt everyone play De? Xan will already be Super strong defensivly anyway with Fi being unroidable to other fi planets.

At this rate All Xan is a good strat, and will be very hard to stop a 50 man tag of all xan's that are attacking/defending with 3x fleet fakes all the time. Xan def covers everything very nicely except etd fr.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 15:06   #97
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Xan's cloacked ability should be taken into account more. Xan needs to be worse than the other races because they make up for it with their cloacked ability. Please keep this in mind.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 18:58   #98
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I sincerely doubt we will see many "all ghost" defplanets, they don't exactly contribute a lot to tag. What exactly are they going to do the nights the tag doesn't have cr/bs incs? You are exaggerating the impact of "cousins". They don't even tend to have much value.

Don't get me wrong though, ghosts are a great defship and will be a pain in the ass for bs attackfleets. I don't know how good their emp eff is but hopefully it's not too high.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 19:15   #99
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Having looked at it I reckon the ghost is fine. It's eff vs BS isn't very good and it's nicely emped by CR so I don't think it's OP.
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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 20:40   #100
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I have see a lot of stats that are bad, but right now it will be tactical suicide for any alliance to play Bs with the Ghost the way it is. Its garenteed Value loss for the Bs planets, and Wyvren is terribly ineffective vs Ghosts.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=m9149uyazj27mvo

Ter Bs has 2x the value of the Ghost def fleet.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=g3f6xarrbjcdeps

Now Zik Bs is a bit more effective but still results in the same they lose more but kill more.
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