In a gender prejudice world what are transexuals allowed?

[Evergreen]

For example, there are complaints about a transexual playing in the womens golf australian open

Should she be playing with the girls or with the guys as she was born?

At what point Does a transexual fully allowed to use what is decreed sacred or lawfully only that specific gender they have become rights? Like using the womens loo if you were a guy.

It's something I gotta know I guess cause it's a blurry line in a world that still discriminates between genders mainly for the protection of both.

[Nodrog]

If having seperate things for males and females is actually important, then there will be perfectly rational reasons for it, which I assume would vary from case to case (ie the reasons for not letting men play in women's tennis will be different from the reasons for not having unisex bathrooms). Whether or not a transexual should be classed as male or female in a particular context will depend on how these reasons apply to it.

Looking for a black and white answer as to whether a transexual 'is' a male or a female seems a bit silly - their classification will be entirely context dependent.

[Muha]

meebe they should make a 'Transexual' class

[JC]

I could beat her at golf, so he/she/it might as well be allowed to play .

[Deciduous]

There is the case of 'fairness'. For example, if a male-to-female transexual were to sign up for womens rugby it could be considered unfair as they would have a definite physical advantage.

The armed forces don't allow women to serve on the front line as they are combat ineffective.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

There is the case of 'fairness'. For example, if a male-to-female transexual were to sign up for womens rugby it could be considered unfair as they would have a definite physical advantage.

Supposedly 'she' produces less testosterone than a normal woman after her hormone replacement therapy, and so is actually weaker than your average woman.

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

I've never understood the division between men and women in snooker.

The Strange thing is, even with sports such as darts and snooker, the women dont seem to be as good as the men. I don't understand it - naturally both are more "male" sports - but the women that do play it must play pretty hard yet still dont seem to reach that level.

Same with golf, i guess. And im not 100% but youd have to put your money on the mens curling champions beating the women

[ChubbyChecker]

I guess we're just superior (genetically speaking)

[Deciduous]

Originally Posted by JC

Supposedly 'she' produces less testosterone than a normal woman after her hormone replacement therapy, and so is actually weaker than your average woman.

Lack of testosterone doesn't make you 'weak'.
The less testosterone a man has, the quicker muscle mass will decline, but it's not exactly going to drop off at a ridiculous speed. A bit of strength training can easily counter the effect and increase the amount of muscle that person had, to the same extent that would be possible if they weren't on HRT. Most transexuals probably give the impression that they're weak because they are very thin, but this tends to be just a desire to look like a woman, rather than an 18 stone rugby player.

[JC]

I wasnt trying to justify 'her' playing with women, i was just stating one of 'her' arguments for being allowed to play.

As far as i'm concerned 'she' will always be a man.

[Stew]

Oh dear, I can see this argument resurfacing

[Deciduous]

No, you decided he was wrong.
I agree with him, as did quite a few other people.

[madi]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Maybe they get less support. Maybe there are soscial barrirs to women playing snooker. Darts players seems to be preety bog guys often. Apparently testosterone/adrenalin helps focus your vision, maybe men have slightly more acute vision than women although across the board I find it hard to believe, especially since many snooker players wear glasses.

we have a different physiology
we arent as strong or fast or have the same levels of endurance
we also cant park cars very well
are pretty crap at flying fighter aircraft
and the multi tasking thing is only really apparent when one of the things is talking (and only as long as none of the other things requires much consentrated effort)

we also tend to be less competetive and aggressive ofcourse

[IncubusGod]

Girls also have less brain capacity devoted to spatial awareness and hence aren't (generaly speaking) as good as men at judging the position and speed of various objects.

Hence the problems with playing various sports to the same level as certain men. Also hence their lack of ability to park a car or get it into a driveway without a struggle (I shall not retract this,both my mother,sister,ex-gf and aunt are all useless at that)

However they own us at lingusitical tasks & social interpretation/tasks (again in general)

So as for our transexual,well 'she' will have been born with certain male characterisitcs that would aid in her ability to compete against natural born women and so really shouldn't be left play against them in circumstances where those attributes give 'her' an unfair advantage.

The Transexual class is prolly the fairest option however how many transexuals play sports?

[Deciduous]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Yeah it waas mainly me but then I was clearly right and you were clearly wrong.

Clearly

As for the Transexual class thing, you'd need a separate class for male-to-female and female-to-male transexuals too given the previous arguments,.

[Dante Hicks]

Some writer in the field (forget her name) said there were five vaguely distinct genders : man, man-to-woman, both, woman-to-man and woman.

[Dante Hicks]

I'm at University, but it wasn't on fire when I left at 9:45.

If it's my old heater then I wouldn't worry about it, although your room will be unlivable for a few a hours.

[ChubbyChecker]

A recent study showed that there are more incredibly stupid men than there are incredibly stupid women. It also showed that there are more incredibly intelligent men than there are incredibly intelligent women. It also said that on average men and women are as smart as each other (this bit seems like a cop out to me, but whatever)

So maybe there are just more men out there who are incredibly gifted at snooker (or football, or curling, or whatever) than there are women, which is why at the professional level women suck.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Nantoz

The last bit seemsa bit off to me. I read a study saiyng about the same thing; apparently the male cromosomes code for intelligence at a far greater schale than the female cromosomes. Thus the X-cromosomes will always be dominant in a man and the probability for men to posess an extreme (both extremely low, and extremely high) intelliengence is much more likely than the posession of an "average" intelligence.
With women the to Y-cromosomes usually correct one another out and provides most women with an "average" intelligence.

But one the whole more men are extremely stupid than they are incredibly smart and thus, on the whole women are smarter than men....

1) Women dont have any Y chromosomes

2) If you meant X instead of Y, your 2nd point is wrong as 1 of the 2 X chromosomes is inactive in every single cell in the body in women.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by madi

we also cant park cars very well

I think I must be a woman

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

It sounded less and less plausible as you said it, didn't it?

Actually I believe it now more than ever

[acropolis]

Originally Posted by JC

2) If you meant X instead of Y, your 2nd point is wrong as 1 of the 2 X chromosomes is inactive in every single cell in the body in women.

i still like nantoz' theory better

ne way I don't think the ability of any man that doesn't quite make the cut on the men's side to get himself fixed and then make the cut on the women's is good for women's golf.

[JonnyBGood]

I support unisex teams and competitions for every sporting event. If you're not good enough **** off.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Best post this thread.

I'm 50/50 on this post being sarcastic. It gets difficult to tell sometimes

[Deciduous]

I can't say I agree with the unisex teams thing. In physical games, like rugby or football to an extent, women would be destined to play non-league probably forever, they just don't have the capacity that men do. Having professional womens leagues seems like the better idea to me.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by JC

1) Women dont have any Y chromosomes
.

Fatima Whitbread one of UK's female olympians back in the 80's was XXY.

Yes JC women can get an extra Y chromosome sometimes. There's XX, XY and the rare XXY.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'm 50/50 on this post being sarcastic. It gets difficult to tell sometimes

Given how shit he has been in the rest of thread (Doing the whole Jakiri you are wrong I am right style posting) I'd assume sarcastic and not worth entertaining/paying attention too.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Fatima Whitbread one of UK's female olympians back in the 80's was XXY.

Yes JC women can get an extra Y chromosome sometimes. There's XX, XY and the rare XXY.

Should she have been allowed to compete then?!

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Doing the whole Jakiri you are wrong I am right style posting

It's not my fault if I'm so much better than everyone else

[JC]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Fatima Whitbread one of UK's female olympians back in the 80's was XXY.

Yes JC women can get an extra Y chromosome sometimes. There's XX, XY and the rare XXY.

I do a degree in genetics i'm well aware of that tyvm .

I was talking about in normal circumstances rather than people with rare mutations.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by JC

I do a degree in genetics i'm well aware of that tyvm .

I never knew that

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by JC

I do a degree in genetics i'm well aware of that tyvm .

I was talking about in normal circumstances rather than people with rare mutations.

Yah but given how piss easy biology is in high school/1st year uni from experience I wouldn't be surprised if some people didn't know that :P

[JC]

You learn something new everyday .

[JC]

I'm a 3rd year .

[Evergreen]

And your liver still works?

[JC]

Just about. I'm off out to try and kill it again now, cheerio .

[MrL_JaKiri]

Students have livers now?

[Vermillion]

In Thailand, there is a phenomenon called a Katoey. These are women but with male sexual organs. Essentially, they are just men who have undergone hormone therapy and occasionally cosmetic surgury, the difference is (I swear to God here) a good Katoey looks like an exceptionally hot woman, until you get her kit off. A friend of mine is Thai, and told me that even the most astute observer cannot tell they are not male, and many a sex-tourist has been badly shocked once they arive in the hotel room. Don't believe me? just type Katoey in to Google.

In Thailand, sexual roles are accorded a great deal of liberalism. Many former-men (katoeys once they undergo full surgery) compete as women in the national sport of Thai boxing, there are even a few Katoeys that compete as males, and in 1998, a katoey Parinya Kiatbusaba won a national tournament, with some conravercy. In 1999, Parinya has undergone surgery, and competed in the womans division instead and lost.

[JonnyBGood]

I'll give odds of four to one that verm has had an unpleasant encounter with what appeared to be an exceptionally hot woman in Bangkok.

[Evergreen]

Never gamble with an irishman, if you don't lose you get visited by some blokes in balaclava's. (possibly smelling of fertilizer too)

[Nodrog]

While I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is (I use the word 'problem' loosely), I'm pretty sure the best answer doesnt involve creating yet another meaningless essentialistic label to cover transsexuals.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

(possibly smelling of fertilizer too)

That's from spending too long around potato farms.