When did the cold war start? is it really over?

[pyirt]

Contary to what many historians say, I believe the cold war pre-existed the end of the world war two. The second world war was merely a side product of the cold war; afterall the definition of a cold war is a state of serious mis-trust between two nations with large standing armies teetering at, and not going into a full "hot war". Surely this state existed after the 1917 Bolshevik revolution, and continued throughout WW2?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Apart from the wars, it's ALWAYS been like that.

The main visable evidence of the cold war was the spy war, anyway.

[KoeN]

hans blix?

[pyirt]

yep

[pyirt]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Apart from the wars, it's ALWAYS been like that.

The main visable evidence of the cold war was the spy war, anyway.

Well thats mis-trust for ya ;-)

[KaneED]

it started before the revolution. that is to the russo-american tension, not the cold war which only became explicit towards the end of ww2

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

The cold war was in may ways a cover for keeping a nation in a war style economy after the end of actual hostilities. It has the usual affects of repressing civil rights, subsidising wealth and terrorizing the world. This has continued after the end of the Cold war, and one has to wonder whetehr America ever took the threat from Soviet Russia very seriously.

These are all interesting ideas, though you are all wrong.

The Cold war had nothing to do with the countries not really liking each other, if that were the case the US and Russia disliked each other at times long before the revolution. In the years following the revolution, yes the US (as well as most of Europe) feared the potential of a socialist revolution, but not Russia itself, which was following the 1919-21 civil war, pretty much a third world country. During he civil war, many nations, primarily Japan, but also with large forces from France, the US, the UK and Czechoslovakia, participated in the civil war by fighting with the Whites against the Reds. Since they were shooting at each other, I hardly think it can be called a cold war.

During the post Rapallo treaty years, the US and the USSR actually improved relations quite a bit. In the late 1920s and early 30s there were trade deals and agreements between the two, not exactly cordial, but certainly not hostile.

Then of course came WWII, and the invasion of Russia by Germany. Following the entry of the US into the war, the US and the USSR became allies.

The cold war began on August 29th, 1949, and ended on July 1st 1991.

[Lupin]

didnt the cold war begin with the "blocking of Berlin"?! this was may 48 iirc

[Lupin]

47 than?

[Dante Hicks]

It's been said that it started with Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech.

[Deepflow]

churchill was a reactionary boob who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Damn him.

[JonnyBGood]

It's sort of difficult to say when a cold war started seeing as it wasn't actually a war and as such didn't really have a specific beginning and ending. Certainly the polarisation of global politics become apparent in the 1920s and military action from one "bloc" against the other occured long before WWII. Yet the cold war never could exist until the invention of atomic weapons (this rendered von clausewitz fairly pointless really in the whole the only war is absolute war statement). Therefore I'd say you can see a clear development throughout the mid 1940s. The cold war was definitely in existence by the time of the Korean War, and was brought on faster by the Berlin blockade and the divisions of germany. It tailed off under Gorbachev and ended sometime during the early 90s.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

The cold war began on August 29th, 1949, and ended on July 1st 1991.

[JonnyBGood]

World War Two began on June 15th 18 zillion BC and ended yesterday.

True story.

[Radical Edward]

The Cold war began in the year 176BC as a part of a grand global illuminati plot to overthrow the christian church, set up a one world government headed by the pope, and establish a landing pad in israel for the green lizaed men from mars who just trod on the mars rover, it is still going on, and it's current shiny headed Grand Visier is Vladamir Putin, who is in the process of indoctrinating Russian Children while sidelining his arch nemesis Gary Kasparov and also he remote controls bush using alien technology that crashed in roswell that allows him to send brainwaves through tin foil hats.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

The Cold war began in the year 176BC as a part of a grand global illuminati plot to overthrow the christian church......

If I said, it would have been true...

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

If I said, it would have been true...

If I beat you up for your degree in history would I be as wise and omniscient?

[Vermillion]

I would have to check the Oxford statutes to be sure, but I am fairly confident that you do not get a Doctorate degree conferred upon you for beating up the previous owner.

Besides, I took Muay Thai when I was at (edit) the aforementioned place in the UK (/edit) just in case this turned out to be wrong...

(edit) happy?

[JonnyBGood]

i said i have a big stick

[Deepflow]

he said oxford twice

[Vermillion]

None the less, despite all the silliness, the Cold war was determined by a series of fairly specific events, and it is pretty much commonly held now that the dates I gave you represent the singular events which marked the beginning and the end of the Cold war...

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

If I said, it would have been true...

and if not, it would have been made true you clever illuminati.

[Dead_Meat]

Rule #1 in 20th century historical debates.

Vermillion is always right*













Bloody smartarse that he is.

[Dante Hicks]

Since the opening posts says "Contary (sic) to what historians say..." I think it's pretty safe to assume that you can't really rely on "and it is pretty much commonly held now that the dates I gave you represent the singular events which marked the beginning and the end of the Cold war" as an argument.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

I would have to check the Oxford statutes to be sure, but I am fairly confident that you do not get a Doctorate degree conferred upon you for beating up the previous owner.

Besides, I took Muay Thai when I was at (edit) the aforementioned place in the UK (/edit) just in case this turned out to be wrong...

(edit) happy?

This made me laugh while I was mid burp.

I nearly had disastrous consequences which would of resulted in retaliatory strikes from Scotland.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

Rule #1 in 20th century historical debates.

Vermillion is always right*













Bloody smartarse that he is.

Rule #2

If it hasn't been documented in history too clearly you can always turn to DM, he prolly has a hazy recollection of what he was doing that day/year/century.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Since the opening posts says "Contary (sic) to what historians say..." I think it's pretty safe to assume that you can't really rely on "and it is pretty much commonly held now that the dates I gave you represent the singular events which marked the beginning and the end of the Cold war" as an argument.

You can find a historian that will say almost anything/

[queball]

Historians are scary.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Since the opening posts says "Contary (sic) to what historians say..." I think it's pretty safe to assume that you can't really rely on "and it is pretty much commonly held now that the dates I gave you represent the singular events which marked the beginning and the end of the Cold war" as an argument.

Fair enough, but most historians say those dates for a reason, not just because we are a big cabal trying to control the flow of information. Thus if you are going to disagree with us, one had best provide a justification.

Most people know about the academics, writers and researchers of the Historian community. Fewer know about the Historian strongarm/ paramilitary wing, where we break the fingers of people who begin sentences with "as opposed to what most historians think..."

[Shr00m]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Fair enough, but most historians say those dates for a reason, not just because we are a big cabal trying to control the flow of information. Thus if you are going to disagree with us, one had best provide a justification.

Most people know about the academics, writers and researchers of the Historian community. Fewer know about the Historian strongarm/ paramilitary wing, where we break the fingers of people who begin sentences with "as opposed to what most historians think..."

at least thats what you would like us to believe....

[Tomkat]

It wasn't really a war though was it? It was just a period of strained politics and two major powers teetering on pushing buttons to annihilate each other.

So if it wasn't an actual "event", how could it have a beginning and an end?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

I would have to check the Oxford statutes to be sure, but I am fairly confident that you do not get a Doctorate degree conferred upon you for beating up the previous owner.

That's where you're wrong

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

It wasn't really a war though was it? It was just a period of strained politics and two major powers teetering on pushing buttons to annihilate each other.

So if it wasn't an actual "event", how could it have a beginning and an end?

That's what I was saying but I've learned to accept what verm says on history without arguing. Usually it's quicker and less painful than getting the most fantastically boring explanation in the history of the universe. He's my form of dogmatism.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Except that it wasn't any of that, as I explained above.

Nobody believes you, you pinko commie nazi.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

No one except the US National Security Council.

They try hard.