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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 17:09   #1
Appocomaster
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TV Licenses

I don't think we've had one of these in a while.

I got a letter today saying an investigation has been opened against me (well, the occupier of my room) because I don't have a valid TV license. Most of my housemates got a similar letter. I don't think there's a single TV in the house [in use].

This is because I didn't respond to their "previous reminder" (they sent something saying we need to get a tv license and otherwise it'd be nice if we told them, or something).

It lists things that count as TV recievers, say we'll get visited, and say if any evidence is found I could be forced to pay £1000 and I'll be notified of when to attend a court hearing.

In the "How to halt this investigation" I can either obtain a tv license or tell them I don't have one.

Why do I have to tell them I don't have one? It's pure rubbish. It's seemingly coming very close to the "innocent until proven guilty" border. It just seems to be scare tactics to me. Why force me to write and tell them I don't have a tv? They may break even with the cost of telling everyone to tell them they don't have a TV vs guilt tripping people into getting a tv license, but it seems a huge waste of paper and time for most people.

I'm tempted to take the prewritten letter I stole off them which is meant for applications and fill it with loose change when I write on scratch paper that I don't have a TV.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 17:13   #2
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Re: TV Licenses

Standard business scare tactics, unfortunately.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 17:38   #3
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Re: TV Licenses

I tried to make it funny "I don't own any TV-receiving equipment (I can't even fit things I want in my room...)." and stuff. Then I put that I thought the whole thing was stupid and that I guess the fact it wasted so much paper and time was offset by some sort of profit they got out of it.

I wrote it on the back of one of the front-pages that is auto generated when you print things out at uni. Not wasting high quality tesco value pad paper on writing to them
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 17:47   #4
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Re: TV Licenses

I guess you don't HAVE to tell them you don't own a TV. You could just sit back and do nothing. But then you'd get a visit and they'd come round to look for a TV or receiving equipment.

By telling them you don't have a TV you're putting off this visit.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 17:51   #5
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Re: TV Licenses

No, apparently they come and check anyway.... that's what I didn't get.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 18:33   #6
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Re: TV Licenses

In Germany we have an institution called "GEZ" which is responsible for collecting the fees TV / Radio owners have to pay for public broadcasting services.

They use the same tactics. And I simply wrote them that I didn't own any tv / radio (actually I do, but I am not using them - especially not for watching/listening the public broadcasting services as they tend to be very sucky over here). No problem. They can come around, I don't mind. I don't have to let them in.

Annoyingly they now introduced a new fee for "internet-connected machines" like computers.

Just tell them that they can **** off.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 18:35   #7
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
No, apparently they come and check anyway.... that's what I didn't get.
Are you legally compelled to let them into your flat when they come to check? I cant see how they could just demand to be let in without getting a court order or something like that but I'm not familiar with the relevant law.

I'd have thought that their 'checking' would involve pretending to piss around outside with a detector or whatever.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 18:38   #8
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Re: TV Licenses

Their main way of detecting which people have TVs is having shops send them the names and addresses of people who buy them. Either that or assuming everyone has one.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 18:40   #9
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Re: TV Licenses

From wikipedia (bastion of legal knowledge)

Quote:
Capita agents have an automatic implied right of access to knock on your door (like a postman, your neighbour, or any other member of the public). Contrary to popular belief, and as is implied by some TV Licensing literature, you are not obliged to inform TV licensing or any of its agents about whether you require a licence (this was recently confirmed by Shaun Woodward (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport) in response to a request for clarification from a constituent [6]). However, if an agent believes that he has evidence that a television receiver is being used to receive broadcasts without a licence, he may apply to a magistrate for a search warrant. The magistrate will review this evidence, and if it is compelling issue a search warrant.

I would assume that 'not owning a TV license' isnt sufficient grounds for a search warrant to be issued but who knows! Ignore the letter and tell them to piss off if they come round to your door I suppose, the worst that can happen seems to be that they can get a search warrant and find nothing. It's a matter of principle more than anything else.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 19:24   #10
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Re: TV Licenses

You could also write them a letter, telling them you have no such devices, and then charge them one hour of work for the hazzle.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 19:26   #11
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Exclamation Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I don't think there's a single TV in the house [in use].
What constitutes "in use" wrt to TVs liable for the license? Does it mean the TV's actually on when the inspectors arrive? Off, but plugged in and ready to go? Unplugged? Boxed up? In the attic? In practice, it seems like they might not just accept your assertion that it's unused.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 19:46   #12
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Re: TV Licenses

Yes, I realise this. I personally don't have any tv stuff (actually, worryingly I think I have an old TV card in my PC I plan to leave at home next time I go there, incase that gets noticed - I haven't had any software or drivers for it installed in over a year).

I know a couple of people who got monitors which could be used as tvs but purposely didn't buy anything to connect them up - that's a grey area imo, as they have devices that DISPLAY TV not devices that recieve them.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 20:16   #13
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Re: TV Licenses

This site provides a fair bit of useful information about TV licenses. In short, TV licensing officers have no right to enter your property and can simply be told to get lost (politely, of course). "No, we don't have a TV, no you can't come in" should suffice.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 20:20   #14
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Re: TV Licenses

I received several letters from TV licensing last year and didn't bother to respond; nothing happened.

How good is TV detecting equipment anyway? I can't imagine it would be particularly easy to pick out TVs in individual rooms within high density housing.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 20:36   #15
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Re: TV Licenses

1) Your household is legally obliged to have a licence from what you tell us.

2) They ask you to tell them whether or not you don't have one (and sign it) because if you lie to them the offense is far more serious.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 22:29   #16
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Re: TV Licenses

You mean in UK you have to have a license that says your allowed to own a TV?
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 22:41   #17
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
1) Your household is legally obliged to have a licence from what you tell us.
I've always thought that the TV must be in use for you to have to pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexDrax
You mean in UK you have to have a license that says your allowed to own a TV?
No, the "TV license" is a subscription for using (owning?) a television.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 22:42   #18
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexDrax
You mean in UK you have to have a license that says your allowed to own a TV?
No, just that if you use one to receive TV stuff you need to pay your bit towards the BBC. Similarly with radio.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 22:46   #19
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexDrax
You mean in UK you have to have a license that says your allowed to own a TV?
Yeah, but it does pay for quality programming such as Bargain Hunt, Cash in the Attic, Songs of Praise and the Antiques Roadshow.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 22:47   #20
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
No, just that if you use one to receive TV stuff you need to pay your bit towards the BBC. Similarly with radio.
we abolished radio licences a while ago mark ...
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 23:10   #21
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Re: TV Licenses

It seems a waste of resources by your government to have a fleet of vehicles that patrol the streets looking for the magnetic field generated by the turning on or off of a television set (I read this under ways of detection on a site after googling TV Licences). Not to mention having to keep records on everyone who has a TV, and if they have a license. I much prefer here in the US where our public access channels are free but run on donations, or the other free channels that just have the inconvenience of commercials that fund there programming...I'd rather sit through commercials than have to pay a mandatory fee to have a TV.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 23:22   #22
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Re: TV Licenses

I would agree there, or why dont they just block all channels and if the household pays for the license they turn it on for that household. Makes more sense than the backward approach.

jt25man: Here in Canada they are thinking of charging a 50cent fee for the free channels now. A evaluations is underway so wouldnt surpise me if the US follows suit.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 23:29   #23
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Re: TV Licenses

I had one of these letters whilst at Kent, the funny part was I had a tv license. Phone them up and they will just say ignore it, nothing to worry about.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 00:58   #24
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Re: TV Licenses

Paid tv license a week ago - really hate that part of the UK. Paying for channels I don't want to see anyway... Put some adverts on the public channels already and be gone with your stupid tv licenses.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 01:39   #25
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
It seems a waste of resources by your government to have a fleet of vehicles that patrol the streets looking for the magnetic field generated by the turning on or off of a television set (I read this under ways of detection on a site after googling TV Licences). Not to mention having to keep records on everyone who has a TV, and if they have a license. I much prefer here in the US where our public access channels are free but run on donations, or the other free channels that just have the inconvenience of commercials that fund there programming...I'd rather sit through commercials than have to pay a mandatory fee to have a TV.
Yes but the likes of PBS have a pretty poor output if we are totally honest. The BBC meanwhile are one of the most respected TV organistations in the world and its output is extreamly good.

The funny thing is the more people complain about the Licence fee the less value for money we ulitmatly make it. You see while the point of the BBC is to produce tv to appeal to groups that a commercial station couldnt ever aim for this does mean that their shows are often niche viewing that most people wont find appealing and will often critise and take the piss out off. So to try and justify the fee to thse people they start to chase ratings more which reduces the quality of the output by increasing the amount of trashy shows that appeal to a mass auidence.

Even with that though, and even if you don't enjoy alot of the shows theres alot on the schedual which is some of the best tv in the world and we should be immensly proud of the fact that our country can produce shows of that quality. And just take a look at ITV schedual theres not much on that which isnt ripped off from a BBC program that was expected to be a niche program but became a breakout hit so they are doing something right


Another thing people forget is that the TV licence does more than just fund BBC's tv stations. The whole terrestrial TV infrastucture is funded by the licence fee and it also helped pay for the countrys emergancy broadcast system which hopefully won't ever be needed but which without we would be royally screwed (After all im not sure beacons being lit would really cut it do you)

And finally it pays for the BBC radio. That not only gives us around 8 national stations that no matter what your tastes will pretty much offer you something at some point in the day that your lntrested in, all uninterupted so that you don't end up with more ad's than original programming but also offer alot of regional radio which offers information and programming that is taylored for your area that a national station never could


Something y
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:10   #26
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Yes but the likes of PBS have a pretty poor output if we are totally honest. The BBC meanwhile are one of the most respected TV organistations in the world and its output is extreamly good.
Wait what, no it isnt. BBC radio is good, as is BBC internet but the terrestrial channels are terrible. In any case, if I want to own a TV in order to get Sky, theres no reason why I should be forced to fund whatever terrestrial dross others are wanting to watch.

Quote:
Even with that though, and even if you don't enjoy alot of the shows theres alot on the schedual which is some of the best tv in the world and we should be immensly proud of the fact that our country can produce shows of that quality.
Imo the only things worth watching on TV during the last 10 years have been Brass Eye and various american sitcomes (mainly Larry David stuff), none of which were made by the BBC. I guess your subjective opinion is different from mine, the key difference being that I have no interest in forcing others to pay for the stuff I like.

Last edited by Nodrog; 28 Nov 2006 at 02:43.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:25   #27
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
This site provides a fair bit of useful information about TV licenses. In short, TV licensing officers have no right to enter your property and can simply be told to get lost (politely, of course). "No, we don't have a TV, no you can't come in" should suffice.
28K a year seems a lot for driving around checking tv licenses.

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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 04:47   #28
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Re: TV Licenses

Here's a lovely quote from Lord Denning on who may or may not enter your home...

Quote:
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail – its roof may shake – the wind may blow through it – the storm may enter – the rain may enter – but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement.' So be it – unless he has justification by law.


I suspect the last caveat is the reason we need Lawyers in these situations. Nevertheless, the language is enjoyable and poetic.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 08:30   #29
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The whole terrestrial TV infrastucture is funded by the licence fee and it also helped pay for the countrys emergancy broadcast system which hopefully won't ever be needed but which without we would be royally screwed (After all im not sure beacons being lit would really cut it do you)
Any emergency services should be paid be paid out of taxation (either levied on the public or commercial broadcasters), not licence fees.

90% of everything the BBC produces is pure dross and it's annoying we are forced to pay for it, but if we are then I'd much prefer to pay it out of income tax than have to witness the shameful scare tactics they use (which only really work on law abiding people anyway).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
28K a year seems a lot for driving around checking tv licenses.
That includes overtime so probably isn't that good. Lettings Officer jobs are often listed as £30k OTE but their basic salary is something like £14k (obviously that's highly commission based, I've no idea if the structure is similar with these guys. Capita seem a pretty shit employer from all accounts anyway)
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 08:51   #30
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Wait what, no it isnt. BBC radio is good, as is BBC internet but the terrestrial channels are terrible.
And which money, pray tell, do you imagine pays for the BBC radio stations and the websites?

The licence fee is one of the fairest forms of taxation. It is voluntary and, uniquely among taxes, you are told in advance exactly what it will pay for.

All this chatter doesn't really matter. Auntie's not going anywhere.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 11:28   #31
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Re: TV Licenses

Criticising the BBC for the recent quality of programming is rather obtuse, as the government have been pushing the BBC to get higher ratings as a first measure of success for some years now which is a fairly obvious get-out, and, given BBC1 and the recent Doctor Who, a justified one.

Oh, and the BBC aren't directly responsible for the threatening license fee. The Post Office run the collection, and Capita performs it.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 14:29   #32
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Re: TV Licenses

To be perfectly honest I'm happy to pay my license when I get shows like Planet Earth, and one of the most highly regarded news agencies in the world.

However, when I genuinely didn't need to pay a license last year the constant letters were annoying. After discovering that phoning them to correct their records made no difference whatsoever, I just ignored them and the gestapo never turned up.


To clarify, I had a TV card in my computer. However, I had no aerial, and no aerial cable to go to the socket in my room. So far as I'm concerned that exempts me. Why have a TV card with nothing connected to it? I used it for my PS2.

This bit from the TVL site always amuses me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Licensing
What if I only use a TV to watch videos/DVDs/as a monitor for my games console? Do I still need a licence?

You need to notify us in writing that this is the case and one our Enforcement Officers may need to visit you to confirm that you do not need a licence.
No, no I really don't. It's up to you to prove otherwise, and so far as I'm aware the legislation doesn't require anyone using their TV for things other than TV to write to anybody. If you're going to send an "enforcement officer" round anyway, why should I waste my time?


To sum up
- I don't mind paying the license when I need one
- I do mind the stong-arm big brother tactics TVL uses
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 14:48   #33
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
To be perfectly honest I'm happy to pay my license when I get shows like Planet Earth, and one of the most highly regarded news agencies in the world.

However, when I genuinely didn't need to pay a license last year the constant letters were annoying. After discovering that phoning them to correct their records made no difference whatsoever, I just ignored them and the gestapo never turned up.


To clarify, I had a TV card in my computer. However, I had no aerial, and no aerial cable to go to the socket in my room. So far as I'm concerned that exempts me. Why have a TV card with nothing connected to it? I used it for my PS2.

This bit from the TVL site always amuses me:


No, no I really don't. It's up to you to prove otherwise, and so far as I'm aware the legislation doesn't require anyone using their TV for things other than TV to write to anybody. If you're going to send an "enforcement officer" round anyway, why should I waste my time?


To sum up
- I don't mind paying the license when I need one
- I do mind the stong-arm big brother tactics TVL uses
I actually agree with you on this one, the TV License itself has it's uses. It's the way it is done that irritates me. I had to pay one just for having a TV in the house, even though it was foreign and I was not physically able to connect it at that point.
Same if you have a computer that is remotely capable of receiving tv - you have to pay.
Our new house has a sat dish from the previous inhabitants on it, we would have to pay a tv license even if we didn't use it at all...

One thing I don't get though - I could receive BBC 1,2,3 in The Netherlands and all BBC Radio stations. I didn't have to pay tv license for this though?
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 15:05   #34
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Re: TV Licenses

Sounds like you made a big mistake Shadow1980.

If you have a TV that is used for games or watching DVDs for example, you can apply for a license that is free but doesn't entitle you to watch TV.

You don't have to pay if you have a satellite dish on your house either. Just declare that it is not in use.

The TV Licensing thingymajig isn't trying to rip you off - its trying to catch the large volume of people that try to dodge paying for a license.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 15:25   #35
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
Sounds like you made a big mistake Shadow1980.

If you have a TV that is used for games or watching DVDs for example, you can apply for a license that is free but doesn't entitle you to watch TV.

You don't have to pay if you have a satellite dish on your house either. Just declare that it is not in use.

The TV Licensing thingymajig isn't trying to rip you off - its trying to catch the large volume of people that try to dodge paying for a license.
Pity they are so forceful about it to people that mean well - 2 days after we moved into our new house we got a red letter warning us that if we take no action within 10 days they would launch a full investigation o_O

I do watch telly now so I bite the bullet and pay, it's just that these things could be done in a more... friendly manner. Right now it feels like the mafia 'requesting' some money...

Any idea what the deal is with the ability to watch BBC in other countries without a license though? What does the license actually pay for?
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 15:53   #36
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Re: TV Licenses

I'll never be paying a TV license. Only way to find out I have a TV in my appartment is to get a court order and I've never heard of anyone going that far + it gives me some time to get the TV out.

In Norway they drive around in the neighbourhoods (bigger cities) with radars/antennas on top of their cars to scare people. Most sensible people knows it's just bullshit though.

The worst part about TV-licensing in Norway is that the money is going to the shittiest TV-channel we have (NRK). They got two channels, but many people in Norway only get one of the channels because they don't live in a city and the government won't cut the license in half for those people.

TV-licensing will probably be history in a few years (2009/2010) anyway as they won't have a reason to keep it then.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 16:00   #37
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Re: TV Licenses

BBC get a large amount of money from selling merchandise and selling programs to other networks as well...

I'm guessing that the dutch Cable/Satellite network pay the bbc for the rights to broadcast it. Unless you can get it through a normal aerial in which case I have no idea...
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 16:51   #38
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
The licence fee is one of the fairest forms of taxation. It is voluntary and, uniquely among taxes, you are told in advance exactly what it will pay for.
It's fair in the sense you can avoid paying it if you choose (by not owning a television) but the effects are pretty regressive.

I pay about 0.13% of my monthly salary to the TV licence, someone on benefits could be paying something like 5%. That doesn't seem fair to me.

(Again, I realise people don't have to have a telly, but it probably does increase a sense of isolation if you don't have other things - e.g. work - going on in their lives)
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 16:52   #39
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I pay about 0.13% of my monthly salary to the TV licence, someone on benefits could be paying something like 5%. That doesn't seem fair to me.

(Again, I realise people don't have to have a telly, but it probably does increase a sense of isolation if you don't have other things - e.g. work - going on in their lives)
People on benefits should spend less time watching tv and more time finding jobs!!
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 16:56   #40
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
People on benefits should spend less time watching tv and more time finding jobs!!
What if it's a "How to find a job" program?

(p.s. serious reply ; not every person on benefits is on job-seekers. In fact, of working age claimants, only something 15-20% of them are on Job-Seekers )

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 28 Nov 2006 at 17:19.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 17:36   #41
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
we abolished radio licences a while ago mark ...
Sorry, I was thinking of black and white licenses.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 18:14   #42
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Re: TV Licenses

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Originally Posted by Ste
BBC get a large amount of money from selling merchandise and selling programs to other networks as well...

I'm guessing that the dutch Cable/Satellite network pay the bbc for the rights to broadcast it. Unless you can get it through a normal aerial in which case I have no idea...
Good point, the Dutch national television broadcast an immense amount of BBC programs, which are very popular. You might be correct on the Cable/Satellite networks paying the BBC for the rights to broadcast, I'm tbh not entirely sure on how that works. You can receive it on aerial in some areas, but for most of the country you indeed need cable tv.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 19:32   #43
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow1980
Good point, the Dutch national television broadcast an immense amount of BBC programs, which are very popular. You might be correct on the Cable/Satellite networks paying the BBC for the rights to broadcast, I'm tbh not entirely sure on how that works. You can receive it on aerial in some areas, but for most of the country you indeed need cable tv.
BBC Worldwide sell them (along with the various DVD's of BBC shows that are avaialble. This money is then fed back into the BBC to produce shows, and finance things like BBC World Service radio.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 19:33   #44
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I feel obliged to point out that advertised television isn't free since those costs are passed directly to the consumer. Given that firms like Nike for instance are basically marketing companies, when you buy a pair of Nike shoes a large proportion (if not the largest proportion) of that cost is for the marketing and advertising of those shoes.
Nonsense. Selling price isnt directly linked to costs like that; a company will charge as much as the market will bear. If people are prepared to pay £70 for a pair of shoes then it doesnt matter whether the marketing cost per pair is £5 or £50 - the shoes are going to sell for £70 regardless. Companies dont automatically cut prices when they reduce costs - they just absorb the savings as profit. Similarly if noone is prepared to pay over £80 for a pair of shoes then an increase in the marketing budget isnt ever going to take the price of shoes above £80 - you cant just pass the cost increase onto consumers when a price rise will result in your product being overpriced relative to your competitors, because youll end up losing market share.

The high price of Nike trainers has very little to do with the production costs or marketing budget - they cost that much because people are happy to buy them for that price.


edit: http://www.sainsbury.org/portfolio/h...tingReport.pdf

The marketing cost per pair of £60 trainers is £10. Compare that to the £32 (53%) profit margin absorbed by various parties.

Last edited by Nodrog; 28 Nov 2006 at 19:47.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 20:05   #45
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Re: TV Licenses

In so far as shops collecting your name and address when you buy a TV that's a complete BS situation. Your expected to give personal info to a spotty little guy in Comet just so the TV Licencing people can write a snotty letter to you.

Here's what you do .....


1) Pay CASH. Tell them a false name & address.

2) This will work for ££££££ purchases. Refuse and simply say you'll buy it elsewhere. Retail is in too much trouble to turn big £ away. They'll relent.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 20:40   #46
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Re: TV Licenses

I dislike having to pay a TV license, but I appreciate the fact that I can watch TV without commercials on it, if I want to.

I hardly ever watch TV though, so I'd say I got the wrong end of the bargain.

In Norway we have had some weird cases where people have been forced to pay TV license for owning equipment in places where they couldn't take in any channels (No antenna coverage), but in our digital age we've seen the end of that, I hope.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 22:27   #47
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Nonsense. Selling price isnt directly linked to costs like that; a company will charge as much as the market will bear.
Well yeah, but then the relative cost to profit ratio (or markup) will heavily affect the amount of producers in a given market. As I have said before, if I make some food product for 10p and sell it for £100 then other competitors will flood into the market after seeing the amazing profitability I'm making. If I'm paying £99 to make a £100 sale then it's less likely others will want to (or be able to) enter the same market (at least, not using the same model). Higher marketing costs act (in some senses) as a barrier to entry.

Any number of companies could probably compete with Nike on the quality of their shoes but very very few can compete with them on marketing spend (and that's where the difference is).

In any case, the original point remains. Higher marketing costs either increase costs or they reduce profitability (or wages if owners want to retain profits). Either way, someone is obviously paying for this advertising dross, and unlike the TV licence it's actually quite complicated to avoid (especially given the vast amount of cross-ownership / licencing / branding which exists for most consumer products).
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 23:40   #48
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
This bit from the TVL site always amuses me:


No, no I really don't. It's up to you to prove otherwise, and so far as I'm aware the legislation doesn't require anyone using their TV for things other than TV to write to anybody. If you're going to send an "enforcement officer" round anyway, why should I waste my time?
It amuses me as well.

Mostly because it's wrong.

The government changed the definition to include devices capable of receiving television signals. It's not the bbc's fault that the government can't draft statute.

(it is also the reason why i have a licence despite not owning a television)
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 23:52   #49
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Re: TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
It's fair in the sense you can avoid paying it if you choose (by not owning a television) but the effects are pretty regressive.

I pay about 0.13% of my monthly salary to the TV licence, someone on benefits could be paying something like 5%. That doesn't seem fair to me.

(Again, I realise people don't have to have a telly, but it probably does increase a sense of isolation if you don't have other things - e.g. work - going on in their lives)
It seems disingenuous of you to ignore the discounts given to those on benefits as well as to those over a certain age. There are also several flexible payment methods.

Of course the costs of basics are a greater proportion of the total income of those on benefits. I'm not sure you quite understand the point of benefits.

It also seems slightly disingenuous to complain about the cost when people are clearly prepared to shell out the cash on the TV in the first place ...

if living without a television is such an appalling situation then I expect you to shower me with sympathy
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 00:01   #50
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Re: TV Licenses

let them eat PSPs
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