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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 15:41   #1
Barrow|Pony
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Well, we've all had two days to read and reflect on Kal's momentous announcement. I think Kal deserves some credit here - there are some initiatives he laid out that will indeed make this game more conducive to a growing playerbase. But, yet again, I think the priorities of PA's future development are misguided.

Here's my take on the notable ones:

Quote:
1) Make a backdrop of a proper science fiction story. This will include events from previous rounds as well as events prior to Round 1. This should be in place by Round 20.
Here's a good example. I think this is 'nice.' This may attract x number of players, but its hard to imagine this would do much to offset the declining playerbase. A cute idea.

Quote:
2) Change the free/paid boundaries so that the free planets are easy to play as and more competitive than they are currently, a key aspect of this will be removing the current ETA restrictions. This should be in place by Round 20.
THERE WE GO. moving towards making this game more accessible to free players is a step in the right direction. These changes are easy to implement – will have tangible results for free players, and hopefully lead them to the wonderful land that is Planetarion's alliance community.

Quote:
3) Make the game friendlier to those playing from the same location through less reliance on IP-based evidence, tool improvements and a more casual approach to enforcing in-game exceptions. This will be a gradual process that is already underway.
Has this really been a problem? Have we lost market share because of multi-hunting problems and IP exemptions?

Quote:
4) Improve the main www.planetarion.com site to market the game more successfully. Phase one of this is already complete, with a revamped portal for Round 19. The site will be further enhanced for Round 20.
See explanation for #1. This is an unnecessary dedication of coding resources.

Quote:
5) Make core features simple on the surface but with hidden depths, perhaps with more features along the lines of engineering priorities that could be disabled on free accounts. This will take place gradually with the first changes being visible for Round 20.
This doesn't even make sense. I guess it sounds beneficial in that other tactical options will be introduced into the game, leading to a more diverse universe and increased strategy paths – but we do this by making things simpler and more complex at the same time? Dunno.

Quote:
8) Develop a system to allow users to have a single login for life, with credit management and purchasing handled outside individual games. This will not only make life easier for players (as they will only need to give ruler name, planet name and race when signing up to a game), but will also cut down on administration in general. This will be put in place during 2007.
Cool. I can see the trend towards "cutting down on administration in general" – is this a precursor to abolishing the Department of Overseeing Departments?

In general – this is infinitely better in the quest to make PA a sustainable game with increasing players and more interesting gameplay – but only because this is the first set of policy suggestions we've seen.

I think you missed: 9) Overhaul the combat engine, 10) Create more distinctions between additional races (possibly reinstituting the tech-tree concept) to allow for more strategic options for players, 11) make a good-faith effort to get coding support from Jolt, and 12) reduce alliance size significantly to spur the creation of more alliances to break up political stagnation, and probably a 13) and 14) as well.

Good start. Now we need specifics and we need focus.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 15:57   #2
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
I think you missed: 9) Overhaul the combat engine, 10) Create more distinctions between additional races (possibly reinstituting the tech-tree concept) to allow for more strategic options for players, 11) make a good-faith effort to get coding support from Jolt, and 12) reduce alliance size significantly to spur the creation of more alliances to break up political stagnation, and probably a 13) and 14) as well.
As an aside the things you have mentioned above may be being worked on, however in the interests of not breaking our promises they may be being kept under wraps. The vision document isnt the be all and end all, just because something isnt in there, doesnt mean we arent busy working on it behind the scenes.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 15:59   #3
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

What possible reason could you have for keeping this under wraps then? The classic PA-Crew blunder has traditionally involved working under a shroud of secrecy, slaving to create earth-shattering policy that ended up receiving a mixed, if not poor, reaction from the PA community.

Include the players and make progress. Constructive criticism ftw. (?)
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 16:04   #4
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

We're reading the Suggestions Forums, having discussion in #planetarion and generally listening more than ever. Like i said, we arent going to make promises in case we dont deliver.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 16:17   #5
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Personally I think alliance size is huge for bringing in more players, because if it was, say 50, it would allow for newer players to try to come in and compete by bringing in their friends to play with them under newly created alliances.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 16:56   #6
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Honest no flame feedback, the start of the announcement gives an objective:
Quote:
We aim to:

- Make the game more varied and add depth.
- Allow new players to integrate more easily into the community.
- Allow new players to get to grips with the game better.
- Add more advanced features that can be optionally disabled.
- Make the game more about ability than activity.
- Make the game about real teamwork.
- Allow friends to play together but also allow people to make new friends.
All seems well, grand ambitions to revitalise the game. Yet the plan of action achieves almost none of this ! This would be looked on quite badly in the real world, since you're volunteers I guess you can be let off. The most stunning flaw is you don't have any new players, who are you catering too with three of those points ?

Anyway looking at the plan of attack in detail:
1) Waste of Time. Won't attract any more players or add anything to the game.
2) Why hasn't this been done already ? Anyone who stumbles onto a browser based online game is never going to pay to play it but nor are they likely to upgrade in the future if their free account doesn't give them an accurate picture of how the game is played. ETA restrictions seems one of the main obstacles but you also need to keep some features that are worth upgrading for. Perfect.
3) Waste of Time. Won't attract new players but will encourage established players to cheat.
4) How on Earth the Planetarion site manages to look worse each round I don't know The splash screen used in the first few rounds was far superior and less intimidating than the wall of text that hits you when the portal loads. If I loaded that for the first time I'd think this looks boring and do something else. That isn't too say that the portal isn't useful (to established players) but it shouldn't be the first thing people see. A splash screen with a good graphic and links to "Login", "Sign Up", "Manual", "Portal" and "Forums" looks more professional and gives players a glimpse of something they might be interested in, knocking one together takes about 20 minutes. As for the portal itself Barrow is right, why waste valuable coding resources ? Surely one person doing this would suffice ? Why is it still not as good as the Round 4 portal ?
5) The only point of real substance in the whole announcement and how does it come over ? Management gibberish. This is the most important point in the list, all the rest are cosmetic changes not related to the game and all it says to me is that you have no idea how you want to achieve any of your aims. Chef's posts above about keeping things also seems to confirm this.
6) Why bother with the Netgamers network ? It's a tiny network and I'm sure almost everybody on there already knows exactly what Planetarion is. What exactly is an "affiliate" ? Is it a late 1990s web ring ? What exactly do you have to offer any company or site that affiliates with you ? Banner traffic from the 2000 players isn't that enticing. If they're so useful why do you not have affiliates already ? Seems a very lackluster marketing campaign and should be undertaken alongside a multitude of other activities, is there anyone on PA team with any experience in marketing especially E marketing ? If not perhaps you should find someone as the number one priority.
7) Waste of Time. Won't attract new players and I doubt established players have any difficulty finding alliance channels.
8) It's 2002 again ! Five years to implement probably isn't that bad, it's a useful feature that should have been implemented years ago. It's clearly the Department of Administrative Affairs Barrow.

Barrow's own points are actually of far greater interest than those eight and he should have developed them more in case people miss them:
9) Definitely needed, I've not played Planetarion in a while but I'm shocked to see that other than minor changes in stats the game is almost identical. There are numerous threads around with genuinely innovative and interesting ideas about the combat system yet they all seem to get ignored. You need to have people reading the forums and talking to experienced players (not with stupid committees and focus groups) about how they would change the game, this is the key, you should be talking to Sid or Barrow or Rob or Lokken or JBG or <XYZ Top Player> about how to improve the game not some cretin who hangs around in #support or posts on the Suggestions forum but has never played the game at the top level.
10) Definitely, I like the tech tree idea especially in regards to specialisation of planets. I always felt that in Planetarion was too uniform, everyone of the same race has the same kind of fleet and attacks people of other races each of which has the same type of fleet. I'd love to see a system where players could choose which technology to research and really specialise their fleet, even if this meant doing away with races and the unique classes of astropod.
11) Not informed enough to comment, does Planetarion really need coding support ? Surely this volunteer team can do it adequately ? Is coding something like Planetarion that hard ? I mean there's 1001 clones around.
12) Of everything I've read on the forums recently I think this would be one of the most simple and exciting changes. The idea of smaller battle group sized alliances of around 20-40 players is quite interesting. The most important aspect is that it would strengthen galaxies against alliance pressure but it would also have benefits for alliances especially the smaller ones who have problems organising and controlling large groups of players and in terms of making politics more fluid in random rounds. Of course you have to be careful here about going too far and making alliances useless.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 17:02   #7
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Make the game harder and more hardcore. If you want casual gaming, you play PS2 or WoW or something. That does not mean (nessecarily) that a more activity based PA is the way forward (I doubt that) but add more STRATEGY to a wargame is never a bad idea.

Less alliancesize atm isnt a good option, as there are too few people around who are good BC/DC/HC's. In doing so you limit the amout of players that can actually play to win. You will not get hooked to this game if you cannot play with other decent people, and no way are the hardcore alliances even going to remotely consider allowing new blood in if they cannot also have a go at the top.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 17:07   #8
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amycus
Personally I think alliance size is huge for bringing in more players, because if it was, say 50, it would allow for newer players to try to come in and compete by bringing in their friends to play with them under newly created alliances.
The problem with reducing the limit drastically is it would do as much damage as a large limit does if not more. Reduction in alliance size is something that needs managed and reduced gradually if it’s going to be for the good of the game.

If the limit was reduced to 50 it’s fairly safe to assume that most of those lost by the ‘top’ alliances would find their way into another ‘hardcore’ alliance that is formed but the issue is with the less appealing players. There’s not enough leadership quality people to handle the ‘masses’ and while its getting better an instant and significant drop would find a lot of people stuck in ‘black hole’ alliances which obviously isn’t good for getting and keeping players.

The drop needs done gradually over a number of rounds while the alliances that show promise lower down need given support to ensure they continue to thrive and are ready to offer useful places for players joining the game to start their PA life.


I also think there may be an issue deciding what a viable operating number will be for alliances. While a hardcore alliance may say they can operate on 40 members those with less committed members could find themselves struggling. For example some of the top alliances DC’s can probably do the same job that it takes 3 DC’s from another alliance who’s members aren’t as active or skilful. We don’t want a situation where the hardcore alliances can operate but every other alliances is constantly on the edge of breakdown. The damage that could do could take a number of rounds to undo and again its another reason I think limit changes need to be done gradually (unlike this round where the increase was excessive, PATeam may have felt an increase was needed but the amount is such that it potentially damages a lot of alliances lower down for a number of rounds coming even if its fixed for next round)
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 17:19   #9
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Barrow's own points are actually of far greater interest than those eight and he should have developed them more in case people miss them:
11) Not informed enough to comment, does Planetarion really need coding support ? Surely this volunteer team can do it adequately ? Is coding something like Planetarion that hard ? I mean there's 1001 clones around.
You're probably right. I base the conclusion on the premise that most people are as technically inadequate as i am - but in-house solutions could probably be found.

However, there are two related suggestions that should be investigated:
1) bug them for a coder anyway. We haven't had significant coding progress for years (literally, i think) and having a dedicated professional to make/track changes made to the game would be immeasurably helpful as we go forward.

2) bug Jolt for support of any kind. Aside from Biffy being a go-to-guy in case of PA team conflicts, what are the details of this contractual relationship? We get servers, yeah, but PA gives them a fair amount of money and it would be interesting to see what we get out of it.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 19:04   #10
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Jolt wont pay to employ a coder Barrow. It'd cost approx £15,000 a year and they wont take the risk when they are happy to make money off it for free as is the current situation.

Has PAN been canned?

There doesn't seem to be much effort to hire volunteer coders either. Im told an NDA is required - but that seems to mean that it can't be done rather than posting them an NDA.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 19:33   #11
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Unforutnatly I've caught this thread a bit late to explain it properly, but I'll give it a go.

Firstly I apologise for not putting things in priority order - clearly a sci fi backdrop isn't the most important thing.

Point 5, I admit isn't clear, but it covers pretty much how we plan to imrpove the game istelf. For example if we revamped comabt we would make it more complex, but at the same time we could revamp the UI to make it easy to understand.

As to the portal comments - I agree its a little intimidating, but I think it is a big improvement on last round. Next round may well see a splash scren type thing at www.planetarion.com with the portal moved to portal.planetarion.com

As to the comment about the lack of new players - I think its unfair to say we don't have any. Our data suggests we have plenty, but that we do a poor job of retaining them - if we improve our retention capability by having a single login, changes in MH tools and making the game easier for new players and improving free accounts then growth is indeed possible.

The point about the NetGamers stuff being pointless is not at all true. The alliances are very pleased with the changed NetGamers have made for this round as it makes their live smuch much easier - http://www.netgamers.org/module.php?...op=full&nid=30

The affliates scheme is only just starting up, but I think that it will attract people to Planetarion and NetGamers, and once its up and running it should be fairly simple to maintain and run.

As to Jolt not investing. I have a budget planned out for 2007 - I can't go into the details, but suffice it to say that the investment levels from jolt pretty much wipe out any profit Planetarion might generate. Some of the investment we plan not to need (such as paid coding) other parts of the investment would be conditional on meeting certain internal targets (such as paid account totals), but Jolt are certainly willing to invest within reason.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 23:53   #12
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Surely paying a coder IS the appropriate action take then? This person will then be accountable to produce X amount of work in Y time.

PATeam are always telling me how they are short of coders - they dont know how to code so they are working on other things. Unpaid/not paid enough like Appoco & myk isn't getting things done, as the PAN development has shown.
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Unread 10 Oct 2006, 23:57   #13
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

PAN development failed due to a lack of vision on what the game should be and on wasting the coding resources available on a passport (+ analysis features ) no coder was interested in.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 00:04   #14
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Lets code PA2 then heartless :/
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 00:04   #15
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Jolt owns the brand, sorry.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 00:06   #16
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

ok we'll call it something new like.... Bushtarion
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 01:14   #17
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

First - let me say I am not a fan of the point-by-point dissection of previous posts. It's neither pretty nor conducive to deeper discussion - but deeper discussion seems to be 'too important' to share with the PA members nowadays, c'est la vie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Point 5, I admit isn't clear, but it covers pretty much how we plan to imrpove the game istelf. For example if we revamped comabt we would make it more complex, but at the same time we could revamp the UI to make it easy to understand.
Kal - is the problem that prospective players do not understand how the combat engine works? Is the problem that problem that people do not understand emp resistance? Or is the problem that we have not had any major changes to game play in years, which is slowly eroding the one thing Planetarion has going for it, the dynamic community?

Quote:
As to the portal comments - I agree its a little intimidating, but I think it is a big improvement on last round. Next round may well see a splash scren type thing at www.planetarion.com with the portal moved to portal.planetarion.com
Kal - is the problem that prospective players do not have enough witty columns to keep them entertained? Is the problem that our previous splash pages have been too pretty? Or is the problem that we have not had any major changes to game play in years, which is slowly eroding the one thing Planetarion has going for it, the dynamic community?

Quote:
As to the comment about the lack of new players - I think its unfair to say we don't have any. Our data suggests we have plenty, but that we do a poor job of retaining them - if we improve our retention capability by having a single login, changes in MH tools and making the game easier for new players and improving free accounts then growth is indeed possible.
GOOD. Though I doubt the number of new players comes anywhere near to offsetting the average decay of the member base, I'd have no way of knowing, cos i'm a whiny player *lolsz*

Instituting this should take....x% of your allocation of resources. This is a feature that will help new players get in and stay in, I guess. 100-x of the remaining resources should devoted to other projects/programs/plans that make the GAME better in order to stifle the erosion of the one thing Planetarion has going for it, the dynamic community.


Quote:
The point about the NetGamers stuff being pointless is not at all true. The alliances are very pleased with the changed NetGamers have made for this round as it makes their live smuch much easier - http://www.netgamers.org/module.php?...op=full&nid=30
Let's follow the link:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NG site
In an effort to increase the ease by which users of our Partner game, Planetarion, can register their channels, NetGamers has created the Alliance-Nickname system. If you are the head of a Planetarion alliance, contact Planetarion's Alliance liason for further details!

Comments
No comments
So - we've got an alliance nickname system! Notice the no comments. I'm interested to hear what alliances are 'very pleased' with this well publicized system.

Quote:
The affliates scheme is only just starting up, but I think that it will attract people to Planetarion and NetGamers, and once its up and running it should be fairly simple to maintain and run.
fine. whatever.

Quote:
As to Jolt not investing. I have a budget planned out for 2007 - I can't go into the details, but suffice it to say that the investment levels from jolt pretty much wipe out any profit Planetarion might generate. Some of the investment we plan not to need (such as paid coding) other parts of the investment would be conditional on meeting certain internal targets (such as paid account totals), but Jolt are certainly willing to invest within reason.
Why not go into it? Obviously we don't need cash values, cos all the other real time tick based space internet strategy games will seize the opportunity!!! but we could hear what you want to invest in, the business plan justifying the investment, and provide quality feedback that you could take to Jolt and say, "hey, we've got community support behind this, we really think it can work, please give us teh dough." This, as opposed to asking for money and then seeing riots on the forums. One of these things is not like the other.

Invest in the game - and do so transparently.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 01:38   #18
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
So - we've got an alliance nickname system! Notice the no comments. I'm interested to hear what alliances are 'very pleased' with this well publicized system.
The NetGamers announcement itself isn't very helpful either. Who is the alliance liason? (I do know the answer, but the news post doesn't tell us.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
As to the comment about the lack of new players - I think its unfair to say we don't have any. Our data suggests we have plenty, but that we do a poor job of retaining them - if we improve our retention capability by having a single login, changes in MH tools and making the game easier for new players and improving free accounts then growth is indeed possible.
New players are critical to any future Planetarion has. When you refer to making the game easier, is this making parts of the game easier to understand? Or is it making it more friendly to someone who isn't able to dedicate so much time into the game?
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 06:46   #19
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
The NetGamers announcement itself isn't very helpful either. Who is the alliance liason? (I do know the answer, but the news post doesn't tell us.)
Its all run through the #alliances system. I *think* its Ace and Spritfire who are the reps. If the system works well the evantual plan would be to expans it beyond just PA alliances and automate more of it.



Quote:
New players are critical to any future Planetarion has. When you refer to making the game easier, is this making parts of the game easier to understand? Or is it making it more friendly to someone who isn't able to dedicate so much time into the game?
Both - a lot of the more complex emelents of the game could be made to appear simpler, but at the same time the game needs to fit around work, sleep and game such as Eve Online better.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 06:55   #20
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
Kal - is the problem that prospective players do not understand how the combat engine works? Is the problem that problem that people do not understand emp resistance? Or is the problem that we have not had any major changes to game play in years, which is slowly eroding the one thing Planetarion has going for it, the dynamic community?
I actually think its both problems. Which is why we aim to address them. There is no point in making major game play changes if no one understands how they work. It would be like if Spinner had made PAX without a manual of any thing else to help players out.

Quote:
Kal - is the problem that prospective players do not have enough witty columns to keep them entertained? Is the problem that our previous splash pages have been too pretty? Or is the problem that we have not had any major changes to game play in years, which is slowly eroding the one thing Planetarion has going for it, the dynamic community?
I know you and some others are highly anti there being a portal at all. But given that it doesn't really take resources away from other things as for example Chef was recruited to PATeam with the aim of running the portal in mind rather than reassigning existing members to it. www.planetarion.com is probably the single most valuable thing that jolt owns - it needs to be improved so that any new players coming along become interested in the game.

Quote:
Why not go into it? Obviously we don't need cash values, cos all the other real time tick based space internet strategy games will seize the opportunity!!! but we could hear what you want to invest in, the business plan justifying the investment, and provide quality feedback that you could take to Jolt and say, "hey, we've got community support behind this, we really think it can work, please give us teh dough." This, as opposed to asking for money and then seeing riots on the forums. One of these things is not like the other.

Invest in the game - and do so transparently.
server costs
part time paid coder (very part time, could only be used for one or two specific projects)
credits as prizes and marketing tools
jolt staff time recharging
possible free round (depending on performance prior to scheduled free round)

The above potentially use up all the income from 3 paid rounds (and probably actually use more than that as I think i've udnerestimated some of the costs)
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 15:42   #21
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

I would like to ask a specific question to Kal if he would be so kind as to answer:

Was the Future Development annoucement produced to be specifically vague, or does PATeam really have no vision for the future?

(note: If you are going to claim you do have a vision, be ready to outline it in detail "Yes we have, but im not going to tell you" type answers will not sound credible to the community.)

Im sure the problems with either are obvious, in the end the annoucement was worthless either way. If you have a vision for where you want to take Planetarion, you need to get that across to the player base successfully. Generally vague descriptions will not spark players imaginations and generate hope for the future.

Deep down I am sure you have a vision, im also sure you are somewhat excited about what you could accomplish in the future. What pains me is the total failure to get any of that across to the community. You have a great game in Planetarion, please remember that.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 17:13   #22
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

I asked Kal a question about it in IRC right after he posted it, he said he was going to bed and to post any questions in the thread.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 17:23   #23
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I actually think its both problems. Which is why we aim to address them. There is no point in making major game play changes if no one understands how they work. It would be like if Spinner had made PAX without a manual of any thing else to help players out.
But you aren't, or havent made any public announcements about, making major game play changes in the first place? Your strategy has been to make things simple without adding additional styles of game play, strategic options, or any substantial changes to the game. It's like putting fancy rims and hood ornaments and shit on an '84 ford stationwagon with no engine.


Quote:
I know you and some others are highly anti there being a portal at all. But given that it doesn't really take resources away from other things as for example Chef was recruited to PATeam with the aim of running the portal in mind rather than reassigning existing members to it. www.planetarion.com is probably the single most valuable thing that jolt owns - it needs to be improved so that any new players coming along become interested in the game.
Surely there has been some coding done to create the portal and institute whatever maintenance operations are necessary to keep it running. Our coders are currently, as is so often pointed out to us whiners, volunteers. Wasting what limited time they are so generous to donate to Planetarion on side projects when we have had perfectly legitimate home pages in the past is simply misguided.

I'm also interested into how you'd quantify www.planetarion.com being more valuable than any other of Jolt's assets.


You're going to need community support to get Jolt support – ignoring BENEFICIAL feedback and suggestions from the people who know this game the best will do nothing but hinder your efforts down the line.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 17:42   #24
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

The problem is that promising things before you know you can produce them is silly. We do care though, me particularly because I'm such an infinitely loveable person. All I can say is that if you have ideas please come to me and talk to me. Help me to help you!
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 18:23   #25
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
But you aren't, or havent made any public announcements about, making major game play changes in the first place? Your strategy has been to make things simple without adding additional styles of game play, strategic options, or any substantial changes to the game. It's like putting fancy rims and hood ornaments and shit on an '84 ford stationwagon with no engine.
Why is it you keep ignoring the fact that one of the points in the original announcement was about changing game mechanics and the fact that in my subsequent responses I mentioned that we planned to both makes things easier and to add complexity.

Round 20 will see game mechanics changes, they will be inline with the vision outlined. The purpose of a vision is not to detail everything we do - this is the vision for the future of Planetarion, not the round 20 things to code list.




Quote:
Surely there has been some coding done to create the portal and institute whatever maintenance operations are necessary to keep it running. Our coders are currently, as is so often pointed out to us whiners, volunteers. Wasting what limited time they are so generous to donate to Planetarion on side projects when we have had perfectly legitimate home pages in the past is simply misguided.

I'm also interested into how you'd quantify www.planetarion.com being more valuable than any other of Jolt's assets.


You're going to need community support to get Jolt support – ignoring BENEFICIAL feedback and suggestions from the people who know this game the best will do nothing but hinder your efforts down the line.
With regards to the jolt assest, i misspoke - I meant the most vlaue of jolt's planetarion related assests.

Coding will not be diverted from the round 20 perl based Planetarion to the portal - simply becuase one is perl based and one is php based. Therefore different coders would be used for different projects. So developing the portal does not impact on game development.

I agree that the portal in its current state perhaps doesn't do enough to justify its existance, but I think it is a step improvement from last round. IF there are signs of player base recivery and growth then the portal gains more importance as it can be used as both a growth enabler and a revenue stream by adding significant user features - one idea suggested to us by a community member was myspace-esque features.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 18:27   #26
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zo0f
I would like to ask a specific question to Kal if he would be so kind as to answer:

Was the Future Development annoucement produced to be specifically vague, or does PATeam really have no vision for the future?
A vision in a way shouldn't be that detailed - a vision should be in theory a short stetment that says in a nutshell what we want to do with Planetarion.

In a nutshell is is this: Create a fun game with thosuands of players.

To do this we have the following areas of action from the announcement.

- Make the game more varied and add depth.
- Allow new players to integrate more easily into the community.
- Allow new players to get to grips with the game better.
- Add more advanced features that can be optionally disabled.
- Make the game more about ability than activity.
- Make the game about real teamwork.
- Allow friends to play together but also allow people to make new friends.

It is up to PATeam to deliver on theese areas, and the number points in the announcement cover some of the ways we will be doing this.

A vision is not something like:
"In Round 20 we will add more races", "In Round 20 we will recode combat" etc - theese are simply "things" they do not inidcate a real direction for the game.

The key aim is the first one - add more variety and depth - this is what alliances such as 1up have been crying out for - more game play options, more difficulty, a greater need for skill.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 19:06   #27
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
text
Thank you for the reply.

I do however disagree with your idea of a vision. The information you have put foward are general ideas that would take me and a few mates (and a ton of beers) an evening to knock up. As such, it is almost completely worthless.

Without going into an arguement over exactly how to classify exactly what we are talking about, if that is all you have to offer the community then id like to say this:

What the **** have you been doing all this time? (you = PATeam)

Planetarion needs well thought out, far sighted and creative ideas to push it into the future. The game has barely changed in what seems like years, and all you have is a general vision that most people could put together down the pub on a friday night? I am going to hope, for your sake, you can see how sad/amusing this is.

I am not posting this to be a pain in the ass or because I get a great feeling out of trying to make other people look stupid. I am posting in the hope you will realise how important communication is and that you will give it a better shot. I know you can do better, an awful lot better.

The money is always in the detail. Which is why so few people in the world can successfully run bussinesses (hell, even Planetarion Alliances).
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 19:16   #28
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zo0f
stuff
I understand what you are saying. However there was the list of things that we are actually going to do/are in the process of doing to meet thoose aims.

Basically you are saying like some of the other replies, that you want details on the sorts of ideas we are considering for future development, things we want to change about the current game mechanics etc.

I agree with you that this stuff should be discussed. However I don't think it should have been in my announcement. What I'd like to see is the development team using the PATeam columns section of the portal to talk about ideas they are considering and over what time frame they think they can implement them and how it fits into the more general vision stuff I announced.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 19:24   #29
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
text
The one thing Planetarion needs at the moment is hope for a future. You have the ability to give people that, if you communicate your intentions successfully. Which was a missed opportunity with your annoucement.

Anyway, however you decide to do it I wish you the best of luck.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 19:26   #30
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

I have high hope for the future - I am hugely confident for 2007 - Jolt are willing to offer limited investment, PATeam is motivated, and round 20 should see signficant enough changes in game mechanics to interest alliances such as 1up again.

Now I've been wrong before, however this time it is my sincere aim to show that PATeam can and will deliver.
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Unread 11 Oct 2006, 20:47   #31
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Re: Planetarion's Future Development

At this time the dev team apparently wont make an announcement as to what they are wanting to do for the near future because of the past experiences of vocalising their desires too early, and as such not being able to fulfill those promises to the community. And as they have continuously been criticised for these unfulfilled promises in recent months they feel they do not want to give false hope just to see it dashed if something unforeseen arises which scuppers said plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrow|pony
But, yet again, I think the priorities of PA's future development are misguided.

Here's my take on the notable ones:


Quote:
1) Make a backdrop of a proper science fiction story. This will include events from previous rounds as well as events prior to Round 1. This should be in place by Round 20.



Here's a good example. I think this is 'nice.' This may attract x number of players, but its hard to imagine this would do much to offset the declining playerbase. A cute idea.
On this barrow (and sorry to take so long to get back to you on this) it is being constructed and scripted by non coders. Therefore it isnt wasting the coders time and for pa team members like myself who dont have any aptitude for coding it gives us a chance to do something constructive into developing the game
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