[Help]Mentoring with style.

[Forest]

This is NOT a suggestion, but will be once I have fine tuned it a bit, as I am sure it could work (though admittedly not for coming round, as I am sure it will take longer to implement than that.

Basically I am thinking, instead of mentoring players, to mentor alliances.

This would be done, by linking two alliances, per score, with a benefit to both.

For instance.

Say alliances can only have a total of 11 mill score (total random figure for arguments sake).
Alliance A is 9 mill (and ranked #1) and links with an alliance of 2 mill.
Alliance B is ranked 8 mill (and ranked #2) so can link with an alliance of 3 mill.
This would remove the advantage of the biggest alliance mentoring the biggest alliance it can and gain a huge advantage of resources. Could also be done with roid count, or average score/roid ratios or something.

Ok, now some (rough) details.

* The bigger alliance could get some free resources (say what would be 5% of the smaller alliance totals), for 'mentoring'.
* Alliances have to designate 2 competent members to be officer mentors to the smaller alliance.
* Someone (not pateam), should be given a job of going to smaller alliances to find out how they have benefited, and any alliance found abusing could be summoned to a meeting with pateam to explain what/why, with possible removal of 'mentor' duties. (Someone like me )
* No implemention within a set period of time (first 200 ticks or something), as it would be too easy to abuse.
* Alliances able to be mentored must be proper small alliances, (non-top 10 or so).
* Mentoring must ahve a list of criteria to be applied for such as help with: attack times, orgainsation, recruiting, security, how to organise defences, etc etc.

Please discuss....

1) All the ways you personally would /could abuse this.
2) What happens when a smaller alliance outgrows the alliance limit (which would ahve to rise through the round).
3) Anything else you can think of.

I am happy for you to slate this idea, but please, be constructive about your answers.

[Chef!]

sounds like a good idea but i feel it could be open to abuse. Also it will probably never get approved due to people either...

a) whinging about bigger alliances getting something out of it.
or
b) whinging about us helping small alliances too much.

...but i like it

[Wakko]

lol
i open a second alliance, full of multiplanets, i use them as flak and def bitches, and get even a ressource bonus.
good idea but u can abuse it quite a lot

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Wakko

lol
i open a second alliance, full of multiplanets, i use them as flak and def bitches, and get even a ressource bonus.
good idea but u can abuse it quite a lot

You think a top alliance these days would do that? And risk being mass-discreedited.

I think u under estimate the wants and needs of alliances and game play.

Top alliances NEED smaller alliances and new players, or soon it will be just 60 players playing alone

Your comments though have been noted.

[Bashar]

Seems to me there is a much simpler way of doing it - asking all alliances to donate 1 HC/Officer to a small alliance to act as an adviser for a round, a kind of sabbatical. The main danger is that the person will try to take over due to big ego, but I think you could persuade alliances to do this if they are willing. If they are not willing, it doesn't matter what benefits you offer, I don't think it would ever be beneficial to the small alliance, as the big alliances would only do the bare minimum.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Chef!

sounds like a good idea but i feel it could be open to abuse. Also it will probably never get approved due to people either...

a) whinging about bigger alliances getting something out of it.
or
b) whinging about us helping small alliances too much.

...but i like it

A) I would say to those ppl, tough. They are the kind of people who would whinge at anything, and just whinge as a way of taking notice away from the fact they are inadequate at the game.
B) You can't ever help a small alliance too much imo, in out of game things, such as organisation.

My worry is abuse to get free res, which is why I suggest we ahve someone (or a couple of people), put in place to enusre some guidelines are set up.

[Seth Mace]

Hmm i doubt most allies would have enough spare personnel to make this work, especially not their best officers/ HC, who would have their hands full with their usual work.

Another issue is would helping alliances in this way, remove a big part of PAs learning curve? Successful alliances usually dont spring up over night and for good reason, all current top ranking HCs should have reached their position through learning from their mistakes.

Btw, i dont look at this as "alliance mentoring" but instead "HC mentoring", as ofc, how can you mentor a whole alliance and how that alliance progress/ is run? Through its HC!

The whole journey HCs take and the fook ups they do along the way, shapes them to become the kind of HC they are (and inturn how their alliance functions). While im sure alliances getting advise, may help them avoid some pitfalls it may adversely effect their self motivation.

Ahh anyway, im just playing devils advocate, something all HCs are good at

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

Hmm i doubt most allies would have enough spare personnel to make this work, especially not their best officers/ HC, who would have their hands full with their usual work.

It wouldnt be anyone to do all the work, just someone to sit n the channel, and advise on occasions as is needed.

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

Btw, i dont look at this as "alliance mentoring" but instead "HC mentoring", as ofc, how can you mentor a whole alliance and how that alliance progress/ is run? Through its HC!

Yes you are quite right, my thinking being, u educate the hc and it filters through, so that the hc teach there members, removing the need for mass mentoring players.

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

Ahh anyway, im just playing devils advocate, something all HCs are good at

Thats exactly what I want tbh, I am not making this post to massage my ego, I am making it so I can see the obstacles before I put together a serious suggestion.

[Karjeg]

An interesting concept. But the point brought up in the post by Seth Mace is one issue that might become very valid. Whining, on the other hand, is something that will always happen...

I know some alliances have implemented something similar, where they appoint some officer/HC to mentor members who have never played before.

My vote is (tentatively) aye, if a way can be found to implement it without opening for too much abuse.

[Forest]

An update, it has been suggested on irc to ahve some kind of simple manual written for alliance hc (I could get one written and put it up here to be adapted), and the link sent to the planet when it creates an alliance, or to ppl who are added as HC.

Thoughst on that?

Thanks to Lokken for his thoughts.

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by Forest

An update, it has been suggested on irc to ahve some kind of simple manual written for alliance hc (I could get one written and put it up here to be adapted), and the link sent to the planet when it creates an alliance, or to ppl who are added as HC.

Thoughst on that?

Thanks to Lokken for his thoughts.

that would be an idea but the problem is that it isnt interactive, if an issue is raised which isnt covered then what would they do?

[Forest]

have a couple of 'experts' in a room, where they can join and ask questions, with easy access to.
i know fomr experience that giving small players access to bigger ones, gets them more involved very quickly.

[Grog]

I don't really think small/new alliances need mentoring.

They're all pretty much started/run by people who've been around for a long time.

What they need are the tools neccessary for alliances to run smoothly & active members.

They generally know what they should be doing. They just aren't able to do it very effectively.

If you want new/small alliances to grow & get better, then more then anything what they need is for the more established alliances to stop siphoning off the best members from them.

[Appocomaster]

sigh. What was the mentoring team for? this sort of thing.
You don't want to link a big and a small alliance, the big alliance will advise the small alliance for fodder. the whole point of the mentor team was that it was independant and anyone with any authority had no standing in any alliance.
Also, http://www.planetarion.com/guidebook.php <-- what's this? This wasn't even the finished version iirc, Webangel has a newer one. It's not like there aren't written guides. They aren't the answer. But having someone sitting in a channel won't be the answer either. Most officers have too much to do and too many windows open anyway, if they sit in a channel on IRC, they'll give too little help or too much help. They'll obviously report everything straight back and use it for intel. It's far too full of abuse, especially with a link depending on how good the alliance is. Everyone will want the biggest possible alliance to get the most gain from it - who sorts out the links. the alliances themselves?
I just think it's flawed.

[Forest]

Small alliances do need mentoring. Ive seen for myslef how little clue a lot of small alliance hc have how to play the game, and its these ppl who teach there members how to play. Meaning you have ppl who dont know how to play a game, teach that game badly.

[Appocomaster]

I'm not saying they don't need mentoring. I just think that a hardcoded ingame thing for some unspecified support from a bigger alliance that gains them score is a bad idea. The mentor idea was a better idea but it didn't take off. I'm still for a bigger ingame support presence myself.

[Appocomaster]

and yes, my english grammer was horrible in that

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

sigh. What was the mentoring team for? this sort of thing.

With all due respect, what exactly doe sthe mentor team do?

I ahve had many new players land in my gal last round, and it was my gal who did all the advising.

[mist]

last i heard, jolt was saying the mentor team was dead...

[Kal]

the mentor team did try to help new/small alliances - the biggest problem was that a lot of them did not want help or were not active enough to receive help. The mentor team's biggest success was veneratio who while they were being mentored did pretty well for a new alliance. The mentor team was basically closed down and merged with support becuase of a lack of demand - however the people in the support team are more than willing to help with the one-one side of mentoring, its the alliance mentoring thats the problem

[The Real Arfy]

Originally Posted by Kal

the mentor team did try to help new/small alliances - the biggest problem was that a lot of them did not want help or were not active enough to receive help. The mentor team's biggest success was veneratio who while they were being mentored did pretty well for a new alliance. The mentor team was basically closed down and merged with support becuase of a lack of demand - however the people in the support team are more than willing to help with the one-one side of mentoring, its the alliance mentoring thats the problem

As Kal said here (and what I was thinking throughout reading this entire thread) it is not really a case of how we can help smaller or newer players or alliances. We have to try and make things such as IRC and PR something that those players WANT, and how to get them more involved, because I'm sure that if any of them took the time to find the mentor team or other HCs and ask for advice, they would be sorted out completely.

The methods of teaching them aren't the problem - its getting them to go to school.

[Gerbie]

A problem with IRC is that you need to know some nice people on IRC for it to be fun. If you don't know anyone on IRC then IRC can be a hostile and unpleasant environnement.

[Kal]

forest give me a list of alliances that want mentoring and this will be considered if there is a resonable number - i know there are lots that NEED mentoring, but wanting and needing are not the same.