Get over it; the both of yah's

[Qdeathstar]

It seems to me that everyone is trying to place the blame about why PA fell on each other. ITs ur fault brand-new inexperienced creators who havnt ran the game before now, or alternatively, ITs ur fault ignorant accusing and ungreatful players.

Well first of all lets look at the first sentence. PA fell. Well i dont know about any onf you but if we have to sides to an argument, then the argument clearly cannot be dead. Two sides are arguing about planetarion, therefore planetarion cannot be dead. PA is however dieing as people try to put blame on one side or the other about why PA fell when it hasnt fell yet creating tension between the two groups.

Lets look at the PA team first. First of all Spiner, the grand creator. No one can say that what he has done hasnt been great for the community. After all he did create the game, he has his fellow-orignal creators however began making mistakes after PA turned from a game that a bunch of freinds played over the interenet into a game that was beginning to take the shape of a business. We wont get into details here, there are enough threads for that. The biggest mistake was lack of communication and that same quality is with us today with the departure of serveral more PA team members. As the PA team twindle so did the Players respect for the PA Team. This is because the PA team failed to show USEFULL authority, (ie information about the game, progress, problems, how much it cost to run PA, and even who they were or anythink like that.)

So the Players lost respect for PA team

Lets now look at the players of the game. What a piss poor group. They wont even attempt to support a game which they have played for several years and which had gave them cybor-power with alliances and which gave the many new freinds along the way. p2p omg. The bitching was endless. If our player base would have just paid the 10 bucks the first year, then PA might have been free for 2 rounds, instead of dwindling down today into a game which is not worth playing. That is the players fault. PA team cant be held responcible for the lack of motivation in the Community. The old community had plunty of players in it. They gave up on the game because the didnt want to support it. thats plain. Today people are bitching about every little thing that goes wrong it seems, saying they Hate the PA team when something goes wrong, after the PA team posts a poll about how to fix it. They complain that the PA team isnt helping players while the whole PA team is volunteering and they have a Forum which some PA team is active on.

what a sad, sad, group of people, on both sides.

The PA community is determined to the bitter end to prove PA is dead, even giving quite threads there own special catogory to allow disgruntled players to flame creators and the community. Quit threads should be banned, because they are quiting, meaning the have no interest in the game. When one has a conversation about PAs future, and/or how to fix it, the coversation rapidly turns into "it doesnt matter its dead anyway" or "its a dead beast, give up"

Thats not just from Players but from PA team to. How does anyone expect to get new players into a game to play p2p when all the forums are filled with this mindless crap.

SO a solution

For PAteam

Your Not the creators, dont act like it
More communications, more honest communication
Dont promise something you cant deliver
End the in-fighting
Remove yourself completly from the game
Delet the Quit threads and ban players who post new quit messages
promote your game

For Players

Grow Up
Provide new players
Get interested
Give up your alliance-power(dont attack newbies)
pay to play
Dont give problems, give solutions
You are partly responsible for the departure of creators.

And maybe the game can heal itself.

Deathstar

[Nitros]

nice post, now lets hope some ppl will actually learn from it

[Qdeathstar]

Quote Nitros:

"[]LCH[] ..lets change history"

What an appropriate sig..

[Miner]

Sorry, but I've just re-registered for the first time since round 3 for one thing, and the thing is to say that this is by far the most sensible well structured and most excellent thread since the end of round 3. Thanks.

[ParraCida]

D for effort.

Too bad you seem to have no real clue on what is actually goes and went on. Shame.

[Miner]

What has 'gone on' has no relevence. His comments make perfect sense. Your comments are an amusing reflection of exactly what is wrong with the community.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by ParraCida

D for effort.

Too bad you seem to have no real clue on what is actually goes and went on. Shame.

Oh, I think a lot of effort went in, although I don't agree with some of it.

Two points do stand out though, the PAteam need to pull in the same direction, and the players need to quit whinging about paying. Most of us pay far more for our internet connections and PCs than we do for subs for PA.

[Chef!]

the man speaks the truth but will anyone listen?

[Qdeathstar]

Quote Parracide:

"Too bad you seem to have no real clue on what is actually goes and went on. Shame."

Well, enlighten me. Ive seen your posts before mO.om

I mean your Sig only proves to prove my point.

[wakey]

You wont see me sticking up for ParraCida but on this I will.

The impression I got from ParraCida's comment isnt that its just refering to current goings on but the 'lack of clue' about the goings on throughout PA's history. There are certainly numorous factual errors in the original post and alot of things mentioned that were simply rumours that did the rounds. As such the effort put into the thread, while maybe a fair bit, isnt really enough.

As such this thread isnt as informative as it should be and isnt going to make the same impact and have the same effect as Qdeathstar probally hoped it would. So while the basic message is a good one its weakened by the promoting of some common lies

[Leshy]

I'll have to agree with both ParraCida and wakey. While the message may carry some meaning and is undoubtedly motivated by all kinds of good reasons, it is mostly lost as the opening post contains a lot of nonsense, not to mention that it is based on a logical fallacy, namely that it is impossible to discuss or have an argument about dead things.

While the phrase 'get a clue' may sound somewhat harsh, it is pretty much exactly what the thread starter needs to do, if he is to bring his point across without it being lost in what frankly can best be described in terms of the same nature; a load of crap. Which is exactly what the opening post currently is.

[Tomkat]

A PA team that acted more "behind the scenes", and had no public appearances except for very rarely, would be better.
Then they wouldn't care so much about their reputation and "power", as they wouldn't be able to see how the players react.

[A2]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

A PA team that acted more "behind the scenes", and had no public appearances except for very rarely, would be better.

Wouldn't this lead to accusations of PA Team being remote, unreachable, and not in touch with the game though. Most of the time there are requests for as much communication as possible, and this obviously works both ways. If PA Team aren't visable except for posting announcements then this may lead to the average player thinking that their voice didn't count, or just not knowing how to make it heard.

[Recluse]

1) I would agree that the PA Team needs to not play the game at all. No planets, affiliations etc. It just seems better to have the team actually dis-connected from the game itself. That said, they still need to maintain a strong connection with the community. With our current population it may be hard to keep up with them all, so I think the PA team needs to recruit some "elves" if you will. PA Team works on the game, news, and such surrounding the game. The helpers, or "elves" field the day to day questions/complaints/etc. These helpers are the ones who would need the most online presence on IRC and forums, so they'd need to be active like hell The helpers would be given the daily updates etc from the PA Team on progress, news etc that the helpers could then use to answer questions from us, the players. This would allow the Team more time to work on the game itself and provide a less stressful time for all. Of course helpers could play the game fully, and it might even be beneficial to have 1 Rep of each alliance as a helper.

2) The players need to shut their hole and realize this is the real world, with real people, and real costs. Nowhere will you find a game capable of incorporating 10k+ people with the resources we require, where no purchase is necessary. If I'm wrong, please someone tell me where I can find this place. Jolt needs money for servers, and I feel the Team deserves money as well. No, I don't believe they could be supported by us, but don't you think the team members would enjoy getting a $500 check every round for their assistance and time? Not all that much but it sure can help.

3) Bottom line: Give Jolt the money they need, Give the Team the time they need, and a game will follow the likes of which we cannot imagine. As players, we can also help out by spreading the word. I know people out there who talk alot of sh** about PA becuase the last rounds they played were 4 and 5, when alliances and multi-ing almost ruined the game. Lets show people what PA is really made of.

[Qdeathstar]

i see that you both keep saying that what i have said is full of lies. Like i said, please enlighten me. You havn't said what are lies. You need to tell us what the lies are.

[Qdeathstar]

What i wrote in my thread, condenced for the people who say that my thread is lies

Fact 1: Pa isnt dead, after all we are still playing
Fact 2: Spinner was the creator of the game
Fact 3: PA had evolved into a business like area
Fact 4: It is obvious that from where we are no, mistakes have been made
Fact 5: lack of communication has caused anger in the community
Fact 6: The new PA team has failed to set real Authorit
Fact 7:Players have lost respect for the PA team. Look around.
Fact 8: Players have bitched about p2p
Fact 9: Aliances having to much power is hurting the game
Fact 10: When one talks of how to fix PA, it turns into A PA is dead convo
Fact 11: The I quit thread is a Load of crap

So, that what was in my thread. Itemized for those of you who want explain yourself.

Now, which one of those things i menchion are lies. Thats all the background information i gave before posting my opinion. SO, either i am terrible mistaken in the facts (which im almost sure im not, anyone besides the people in charge now could tell you) or the people calling this lies needs to rethinkg there postings.

Nice by the way, with the illogical fallicy, you do have a point, nevertheless, PA isnt dead, we are still playing it. If you want to use your own special rhetoric to muddle my point i dont think it has worked. but still, nice.

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Lets now look at the players of the game. What a piss poor group. They wont even attempt to support a game which they have played for several years and which had gave them cybor-power with alliances and which gave the many new freinds along the way. p2p omg. The bitching was endless. If our player base would have just paid the 10 bucks the first year, then PA might have been free for 2 rounds, instead of dwindling down today into a game which is not worth playing. That is the players fault.

I dont know how ppl end up with the view that the customer is at fault if a buiseness plan fails. PA went p2p and therefore is just a normal buiseness as many many others out there - it already was a normal buiseness when they used the banner advertisement buiseness model. If you make a buiseness plan to sell burgers for 50 cent and plan with 5 million burgers a month, but can only sell 25.000, i dont think you would point at your customers and saying they are at fault that your buiseness plan didnt work out. If they just would have brought all their friends and family, it would have worked out and therefore is the customers fault.

Why is it that ppl keep coming up with the wicked idea that for PA the customers are at fault? I dont see that with any other commercial buiseness.

I find it very funny that you point your finger at ppl like me who repeatedly payed for p2p rounds for PA and think the failure of the buiseness plan is partly our fault.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

PA team cant be held responcible for the lack of motivation in the Community. The old community had plunty of players in it. They gave up on the game because the didnt want to support it. thats plain. Today people are bitching about every little thing that goes wrong it seems, saying they Hate the PA team when something goes wrong, after the PA team posts a poll about how to fix it. They complain that the PA team isnt helping players while the whole PA team is volunteering and they have a Forum which some PA team is active on.

On a sidenote - from my and several other ppls buiseness experience over the years - if you offer something "for free", you will have (among the many other decent ppl) some of the worst customers imaginable. I have never seen as bad customers on (partly high priced) commercial services, as i have seen on free ones. Friends of mine made the same experience. Those ppl are usually very vocal and anybody doing customer relation, needs to learn to deal with those - so they dont ruin your job/day.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

The PA community is determined to the bitter end to prove PA is dead, even giving quite threads there own special catogory to allow disgruntled players to flame creators and the community. Quit threads should be banned, because they are quiting, meaning the have no interest in the game. When one has a conversation about PAs future, and/or how to fix it, the coversation rapidly turns into "it doesnt matter its dead anyway" or "its a dead beast, give up"

There is something much worse. I have been away for some months and when i looked at the PA forums again, i was surprised at how inactive they did become compared to previous times. When ppl flame you, they still care and hang around (for whatever reason though), but nowadays many ppl seem to be over that and dont care anymore - thats much worse.

[Qdeathstar]

No, i didnt say it was the comunities fault that PA's business plan failed. In another post "PAs Economy" I made that clear. WHat im saying here is, that people should moan about it. However, if people would have been willing to pay the 10 bucks that first time then we might have gone free for a bit again or not, and we definatle would have been better off.

In the real business world, OFC, but this is a game. I dont know how long you have been around, but i have been playing since the end of round three, and when it was free, there was definatly a stronger community than there was now, also, the best players didnt shun the worst players, i know because when i joined i was a newb who ended up in a top 20 galaxy, and the kept me with my 2mil score. (which is just piss-poor)

Yeah, the think is tho, people are still arguing and flaming, not just letting it go.

QdeathStAr

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

So, that what was in my thread. Itemized for those of you who want explain yourself.

Allow me to compile a list of statements from your original post that are complete bollocks.

• Well i dont know about any onf you but if we have to sides to an argument, then the argument clearly cannot be dead. Two sides are arguing about planetarion, therefore planetarion cannot be dead.
  I see the proverbial dead horse has been lost on you. Not to mention the fact that I can easily have an argument with someone about the Roman emperor Gaius Octavianus and his motives for turning Rome from a Republic into an Empire. That doesn't somehow revive him or the Roman Empire. Discussion can live on long after it's subject has died.
• No one can say that what he has done hasnt been great for the community.
  I'll bet you a penny I can conjure up at least 20 people ready to dis Spinner publically for most of his actions. Whether their arguments hold any merit is up for debate, but their viewpoints are out there.
• he has his fellow-orignal creators however began making mistakes
  I certainly hope that's meant to read 'he and his fellow original creators'.
• The biggest mistake was lack of communication
  Nonsense. This whole "we're not being communicated with" is just a fairly recent fad. Communication has always been present in the form of weekly Creators Hours as well as an Announcements forum. Not until the later stages of Planetarion did lack of communication become an issue. And even if you're willing to claim that communication was a problem, it was about the smallest mistake they made, all of the really serious ones were in the business department.
• As the PA team twindle so did the Players respect for the PA Team.
  The reason any amount of respect is gone is based on PA Team's history and the people in it, not because several people have left. Although having none of the Creators in isn't much help.
• This is because the PA team failed to show USEFULL authority, (ie information about the game, progress, problems, how much it cost to run PA, and even who they were or anythink like that.)
  'how much it costs to run PA' is none of your business, or PA Team's for that matter. Information about who are all in PA Team is publically available; As for progress and problems, that's another thing the community isn't waiting for. Customers don't care about how far a product is, or what problems are being encountered - they want to know when the service Jolt/PA Team are to provide will be actually provided and in what form.
• They wont even attempt to support a game which they have played for several years
  What an utterly nonsensical statement. Somehow players paying for five rounds and several speedgames, paying for accounts for other people, having been awarded prizes that were never sent, are now being criticized by you for 'not supporting' the game? Grow up. A good deal of the people who complain about the game the most are those who have stood by it more than anyone else. Those that didn't care left. Those that cared have run out of care after two years.
• If our player base would have just paid the 10 bucks the first year
  What playerbase? The round 4 playerbase? The round 5 playerbase? The round 10 playerbase? And for the record, PA has never cost 10 bucks a year.
• That is the players fault. PA team cant be held responcible for the lack of motivation in the Community.
  A company can't be held responsible for it's customers not buying it's product? What world do you live in?
• saying they Hate the PA team when something goes wrong, after the PA team posts a poll about how to fix it.
  If you go to your doctor, do you want him to fix you up, or do you want him to post a poll about how to heal you?
• They complain that the PA team isnt helping players while the whole PA team is volunteering and they have a Forum which some PA team is active on.
  People have paid more money this round than any previous round for a service. If that service is not being met adequately, they have the right to complain. If you buy a car, and it breaks down, you don't want your garage telling you that only volunteers work there, and that you should shut up and be happy that they're helping you at all.
• even giving quite threads there own special catogory to allow disgruntled players to flame creators and the community.
  Get a clue. Quit threads are posted by people to say goodbye to their friends in the community, to let people they've been playing with or against over the course of three years know that they're gone. Not for some cheap dig at the game or PA Team (that's what PD is for nowadays).
• How does anyone expect to get new players into a game to play p2p when all the forums are filled with this mindless crap.
  Maybe the forums are filled with that 'mindless crap', because that's how everyone feels? You're looking at the forums as a cause, not a symptom.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe Planetarion is completely dead yet (or at least i believe it can be saved given proper resources), and I applaud your efforts in order to spark a debate about PA's future, but very little in your opening post is correct or worth the trouble.

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

No, i didnt say it was the comunities fault that PA's business plan failed. In another post "PAs Economy" I made that clear. WHat im saying here is, that people should moan about it. However, if people would have been willing to pay the 10 bucks that first time then we might have gone free for a bit again or not, and we definatle would have been better off.

From my experience, things like "pay more now - so you can get something free (maybe) later", dont work out. Mostly it ends up with the money simply beeing lost.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

In the real business world, OFC, but this is a game.

I think that is the point where we stronlgy disagree

This _IS_ buiseness and has been buiseness since many rounds (or always). You are seperating buiseness and "this is a game." - would you say the same about a Electronic Arts Sports game? No ? Why not ? It is exactly the same - just on a bigger scale.

There are some truely free games and other projects out there, but PA isnt one of them.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

I dont know how long you have been around, but i have been playing since the end of round three, and when it was free, there was definatly a stronger community than there was now, also, the best players didnt shun the worst players, i know because when i joined i was a newb who ended up in a top 20 galaxy, and the kept me with my 2mil score. (which is just piss-poor)

I have been playing since mid of round 3. One of my newbie planets (jup i multied in rd3) was bashed again and again from a player in a fat Fury galaxy.

Complaints about things like that, where met (after a lot nagging on my side) with statements like "we play for our fun - not yours". That was at least a honest answer which i can understand now

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Yeah, the think is tho, people are still arguing and flaming, not just letting it go.

Thats the internet for you :P No need to read it.

[CrazySpoon]

Great post! Now im really over it...

[Miner]

It's amusing that people like Leshy are arguing over small points of matter and a few typos. The essense of the comment is there. Above anything I admire the fact he's trying to consolidate the current situation, which is hardly what some other people are doing. Whether you could pick his argument away is irrelevent; his core remarks made sense. You should all be supporting him. I couldn't give one if his argument was 100% rubbish, he means to do good. You fools mean to bring him down. Leshy, instead of writing a remarkably boring essay on why he didn't spend 2 days on his writing rather than 10 minutes, how about discussing the points that are correct, and what to do about it. And please, I wrote this in 2 minutes. Don't pick it away, noone cares.

[dabult]

Originally Posted by Miner

It's amusing that people like Leshy are arguing over small points of matter and a few typos. The essense of the comment is there. Above anything I admire the fact he's trying to consolidate the current situation, which is hardly what some other people are doing. Whether you could pick his argument away is irrelevent; his core remarks made sense. You should all be supporting him. I couldn't give one if his argument was 100% rubbish, he means to do good. You fools mean to bring him down. Leshy, instead of writing a remarkably boring essay on why he didn't spend 2 days on his writing rather than 10 minutes, how about discussing the points that are correct, and what to do about it. And please, I wrote this in 2 minutes. Don't pick it away, noone cares.

Because most of it has been posted already over the past months..once.. and twice..and more..

We are way beyond the point where the community, can do much/has any stamina left to do much/will do much. It all lies in the hands of higher authority now. It HAS been discussed before, all of it, hence people (like Leshy who you question) grow tired of trying to debate it, when nothing, ever, happens.

Frustration, if you wish.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Miner

It's amusing that people like Leshy are arguing over small points of matter and a few typos.

I gave my arguments as to why pretty much his entire opening post was either incorrect or nonsense. If that is a 'small point of matter', then I don't know why this thread was created. And where exactly did I complain about typo's, other than asking for a clarification whether he meant what he wrote, or something else entirely due to a typo?

Whether you could pick his argument away is irrelevent; his core remarks made sense.

Bollocks. In any post or debate, you convey your main points by the use of arguments; if they don't make any sense or are flat out wrong, then your main points fall. Period.

Leshy, instead of writing a remarkably boring essay on why he didn't spend 2 days on his writing rather than 10 minutes, how about discussing the points that are correct, and what to do about it.

Rest assured that if he hadn't asked for it, I wouldn't have bothered going into detail about why his opening post was a big load of hokey. I have argued this particular case many times before, and while I can understand his intentions to do good, the fact that he is shifting responsibilities, blame and demand upon paying customers (many of whom have been loyal to PA for a very long period of time, or have argued his case many times before) is quite frankly bollocks.

[Miner]

Cool. Byebye PA then. I wont be blaming the PA crew or jolt.

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by Miner

Cool. Byebye PA then. I wont be blaming the PA crew or jolt.

It doesnt matter - neither who you or I blame - nor who is at fault. You cant buy yourself anything for beeing "right", so if ppl really care about PA, then they should look forward and not backward. Nobody is perfect and the mistakes you did yesterday, are the experience you have today.

The difference is in how you use that experience.

blah blah etc. - i guess you get what i mean

[Qdeathstar]

Yeah, here we go
• I see the proverbial dead horse has been lost on you. Not to mention the fact that I can easily have an argument with someone about the Roman emperor Gaius Octavianus and his motives for turning Rome from a Republic into an Empire. That doesn't somehow revive him or the Roman Empire. Discussion can live on long after it's subject has died.

Please, Give up about this One bad example. Is that what you got, I admit, a logical fallacy. Ooh. But my point was still accurate, that PA is not dead.
• I'll bet you a penny I can conjure up at least 20 people ready to dis Spinner publically for most of his actions. Whether their arguments hold any merit is up for debate, but their viewpoints are out there.

Yeah, im sure you could. That’s like saying there are twenty republicans that could bash one democrat. Eww. Congradulations. Just because people can dis him does mean he hasn’t done great things. Perhaps I should have said no one can Honestly Say that Spinner hasn’t done great for the game. After all, he did Create the damn thing.

• I certainly hope that's meant to read 'he and his fellow original creators'.

OFC passion often leads to typos

• Nonsense. This whole "we're not being communicated with" is just a fairly recent fad.
Communication has always been present in the form of weekly Creators Hours as well as an Announcements forum. Not until the later stages of Planetarion did lack of communication become an issue. And even if you're willing to claim that communication was a problem, it was about the smallest mistake they made, all of the really serious ones were in the business department.

Um. Hello. I said that after PA had became successful the had started to make mistakes. One of the mistakes that had began to make was lack of communication. That goes back at least to around round 6 or 7. The problem with you is that you Skim and don’t read. I read. You should to

• The reason any amount of respect is gone is based on PA Team's history and the people in it, not because several people have left. Although having none of the Creators in isn't much help.
That proves two of my points. One, that have the creators leaving hurt the respectfulness of the PA Team and two, that PA teams history isn’t great.

• 'how much it costs to run PA' is none of your business, or PA Team's for that matter. Information about who are all in PA Team is publically available; As for progress and problems, that's another thing the community isn't waiting for. Customers don't care about how far a product is, or what problems are being encountered - they want to know when the service Jolt/PA Team are to provide will be actually provided and in what form.

While we are talking about businesses let ofus not forget that many businesses are required by law to give financial statements which explain their costs to there investors. A lot of the PA players are invested in PA in one form or the other. Although they are not required/have not been required they could have still done that. It will not do much now, but I remember how people were saying how cheap it was to run pa although we know that wasn’t true. Possibly, if they had of posted that information they might have received a bit more sympathy. After all, a homeless man begging for money lets you know he is homeless. I disagree that PA community doesn’t want to get status updates. Just other day I say a thread about this topic in which everyone said it was a good idea. You are wrong about that.

• What an utterly nonsensical statement. Somehow players paying for five rounds and several speedgames, paying for accounts for other people, having been awarded prizes that were never sent, are now being criticized by you for 'not supporting' the game? Grow up. A good deal of the people who complain about the game the most are those who have stood by it more than anyone else. Those that didn't care left. Those that cared have run out of care after two years.

Ok, when im talking, in this paragraph, the one that you snipped one sentence out of, im talking about the past. Round three players were not willing to pay for the game.

• What playerbase? The round 4 playerbase? The round 5 playerbase? The round 10 playerbase? And for the record, PA has never cost 10 bucks a year.

Again, sorry for the typo, I ment to say round there, and again, im talking about the past Round three playerbase. But I don’t see you calling it a lie, I see you getting picky with diction, ffs.

• A company can't be held responsible for it's customers not buying it's product? What world do you live in?

I live in my planet ;-). Anyway what I am saying is that although PA team didn’t put together the best program, the community could have been less of a pain in the ass.

• If you go to your doctor, do you want him to fix you up, or do you want him to post a poll about how to heal you?

That there is a false-anology. Comparing a game wich requires player-input to succeed to the medical field which takes 12 years of study to fully understand what you are doing is complete illogical. Nice try. And again, you post snipits. The big picture was that when ever the PA team tried to get the community envolved they got in return “this sucks”. Try harder

• People have paid more money this round than any previous round for a service. If that service is not being met adequately, they have the right to complain. If you buy a car, and it breaks down, you don't want your garage telling you that only volunteers work there, and that you should shut up and be happy that they're helping you at all.

Not PA team, not the people who are responsible for the development of the game, Jolt hosts it that’s it. Mr Brick didn’t leave because he was making money, neither did spinner. And as for the whole garage thing, if you happened to really like the garage for the services it providers then yes, you will have to deal with some hardships. Its like going to your favorite resterant but having to wait because everyone likes the resterant. Your experience wasn’t perfect, but still good.

• Get a clue. Quit threads are posted by people to say goodbye to their friends in the community, to let people they've been playing with or against over the course of three years know that they're gone. Not for some cheap dig at the game or PA Team (that's what PD is for nowadays).

Its bad for the community I don’t care about that it does for them or for you. They are quitting good buy cia. But most of the threads ive seen lately about ive had enough after round 10 blah blah. Not about how great PA was but now its time to move one. So yes, the quit threads are useless.

• Maybe the forums are filled with that 'mindless crap', because that's how everyone feels? You're looking at the forums as a cause, not a symptom.

Ever heard of synergy.


Im happy we are able to stay respectable of each other and thank you for the time, but still I don’t think that I have said anything that isn’t true.

I havnt placed the blame SOLEY on the PA players because after all are they symptom of the Bad choiced by the PA team. However, it doesn’t excuse them and both sides should get over it. Like I said. You want to move ahead and make the game better go head, but if you want to post your silly quit threads and bash the PA team for no reason other than to make yourself feel better, there will be no point. And nothing will come of it. It will only serve to cause the twist of the nife in side PA. Please, give it a rest.

That’s the problem is that the players, not the new ones, but the ones who have been with PA for several years wont take some (even a little bit) responsibility for the state of PA.

Who wants to continue to work on something if they are continuously being told IT sucks you suck and im going to quit. No one. Give it a rest.

[Qdeathstar]

"Because most of it has been posted already over the past months..once.. and twice..and more..
And nothing happens"

No, something that is great takes time, anything, but we who post this again and again want it to happen and we will post again and again untill it does.

Although, i must say its been a while since ive seen a thread were a player offers to take responcibilty for something that has went wrong with PA

[Aryn]

that's cause they players themselves AREN'T responcible for things that go wrong with PA.
however i do agree that constructive criticism is best, it's hard to stay positive when you're mad at something.

i thank you for this thread though, it's nice to see that some people still care.

[Qdeathstar]

they are when all the posts is negative thiungs with the expectation of a positive result.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by A2

Wouldn't this lead to accusations of PA Team being remote, unreachable, and not in touch with the game though. Most of the time there are requests for as much communication as possible, and this obviously works both ways. If PA Team aren't visable except for posting announcements then this may lead to the average player thinking that their voice didn't count, or just not knowing how to make it heard.

In some ways I'd have to say no it wouldnt A2, but only if it was done right. Imho alot of the critism the creators and PATeam have got in the past hasnt been so much that they werent 'visable' just that they wernt allowing enough info to become public knowledge. All you really need to do is ensure a steady stream of info is always getting passed on via announcements and via the likes of the mods, #pa ops, support staff ect. You could also perhaps have one person in a role simerlar to that of Zeus where their job is to simply act as a liason between PATeam and the players and whom would obvious spend alot of time on the forums and on irc answering questions and just keeping people informed. That way PATeam (in particular those at the top end) could become a little less connected and a little less worried about how they are seen by the community ect which would make the job of making decisions easier as you wouldnt be swayed quite as much by public opinion

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

I dont know how ppl end up with the view that the customer is at fault if a buiseness plan fails. PA went p2p and therefore is just a normal buiseness as many many others out there - it already was a normal buiseness when they used the banner advertisement buiseness model. If you make a buiseness plan to sell burgers for 50 cent and plan with 5 million burgers a month, but can only sell 25.000, i dont think you would point at your customers and saying they are at fault that your buiseness plan didnt work out. If they just would have brought all their friends and family, it would have worked out and therefore is the customers fault.

Why is it that ppl keep coming up with the wicked idea that for PA the customers are at fault? I dont see that with any other commercial buiseness.

I find it very funny that you point your finger at ppl like me who repeatedly payed for p2p rounds for PA and think the failure of the buiseness plan is partly our fault.

This community does have to take some of the blame, perhaps not for the buisness plan itself but for the events that brought about it. In round 4 the banner ads were paying around $0.03 a click, not a great deal and way down on what they had paid in the past but with 180k planets (or 150k if you remove the 30k multi accounts that were estimated to be in existance) the numbers do add up. 150k * 0.03 gives us a grand total of $4,500 A DAY or somehwre in the region of $378k a round which would have been enough to pay the costs of the game, a good wage for the creators and leaving money to invest in the game. HOWEVER when only 3k of your players (that 2%) click a banner a day that figures much lower (in the region of $90 a day or $7.6k a round) its no where near as healthy.

At this stage it was already clear that banner ads werent enough to support the game but we the players were adament it should remain completly free and when ideas to introduce paid services into the game were suggested we complained, for example the sms message feature was all ready to be implemented until we as a community kicked up such a fuss it was dropped. Things like this might have brought in enough money to keep the game free to play but we will never know becuase we stopped it being implemented. Also this insistance that it shoudl remain free cant have helped when p2p became inevitable, instead of putting p2p into place gradually the creators tried to keep us happy by trying to run it for free for as long as possible. Perhaps if we had been more open some time and thought could have been put into p2p rather than it being rushed becuase it was what was needed.

Then when p2p did come in what did a number of people do, first of all they spread various lies around the community as to why the game went p2p which did put alot of people off paying (although more prominant announcements about the reason from the creators and a little more debunking of the lies by them wouldnt have done any harm).

And if all that wasnt enough then certain people in this community decided to take offence to paying for the game and proceeded to commit credit card fraud against them which with chargebacks ect resulted ina around $30k being lost.

Oh and not to mention some of the things we demanded were added *cough*private galaies*cough* helped brake down the community spirt which I consider one of the main causes of PA Failure because once the community became segregated along alliance lines the game lost one of its main attractions

Its these type of things on our part which helped compund the bad decisions that were made from a management viewpoint and its why Qdeathstar underlying argument is valid, just his execution was a little lacking. As Qdeathstar asks if we the community realise we were part of the problem and acknowledge that and PATeam realise it was also their (and their predocessors) decisions that were also at fault and ackowledge that we can then start working together as a unit to make the game great again instead of the constant bickering between the two parties and the pulling in differnt directions

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Yeah, im sure you could. That?s like saying there are twenty republicans that could bash one democrat. Eww. Congradulations. Just because people can dis him does mean he hasn?t done great things. Perhaps I should have said no one can Honestly Say that Spinner hasn?t done great for the game. After all, he did Create the damn thing.

Spinner has done good things, Spinner has done bad things. It's to do with your interpretation of events as to (subsequent to the game's formation) the good outweighs the bad. To use your political example, a republican may think that President Bush has done a good job. A democrat may well think otherwise. Who is right? Without some form of disinterested party, and a huge length of time, you can't tell.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Um. Hello. I said that after PA had became successful the had started to make mistakes. One of the mistakes that had began to make was lack of communication. That goes back at least to around round 6 or 7. The problem with you is that you Skim and don?t read. I read. You should to

It's ironic that you criticise Leshy for skim-reading where you appear to have done just that yourself. Leshy stated that the communications problems have been recent (only really starting when the Creator's Hour was abolished earlier in the year), following on from your generic point about communications issues, without specifying either an event of a time frame.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

That proves two of my points. One, that have the creators leaving hurt the respectfulness of the PA Team and two, that PA teams history isn?t great.

That wasn't your argument though. You stated that people lost respect in PATeam because people left. That just isn't the case.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

While we are talking about businesses let ofus not forget that many businesses are required by law to give financial statements which explain their costs to there investors. A lot of the PA players are invested in PA in one form or the other. Although they are not required/have not been required they could have still done that. It will not do much now, but I remember how people were saying how cheap it was to run pa although we know that wasn?t true. Possibly, if they had of posted that information they might have received a bit more sympathy. After all, a homeless man begging for money lets you know he is homeless. I disagree that PA community doesn?t want to get status updates. Just other day I say a thread about this topic in which everyone said it was a good idea. You are wrong about that.

We're not investers. We're consumers. If we were investers, we would have to own a portion of the company (be it publically floated or nay), and I haven't received my shares yet. Perhaps they got lost in the post.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Ok, when im talking, in this paragraph, the one that you snipped one sentence out of, im talking about the past. Round three players were not willing to pay for the game.

Except you were addressing the current playerbase, the forum users. It's as if, working for a credit card company, you lambasted the people who DID pay their bills, rather than those who don't.

You're also assuming that people MUST pay. This is the real world dear. If you don't think you'd get your money's worth from a product, you don't buy it. People said that going P2P would cut the userbase enormously. Guess what. They were right.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

I live in my planet ;-). Anyway what I am saying is that although PA team didn?t put together the best program, the community could have been less of a pain in the ass.

Address this to the people who complained in R1, 2, 3 or 4. Then, the product was free. From R5 onwards, you started paying, and people have a right to complain if the product which they purchased isn't up to scratch. A little thing called Tradings Standards.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

That there is a false-anology. Comparing a game wich requires player-input to succeed to the medical field which takes 12 years of study to fully understand what you are doing is complete illogical. Nice try. And again, you post snipits. The big picture was that when ever the PA team tried to get the community envolved they got in return ?this sucks?. Try harder

That's a simplification. In any reasonably large demographic, you're always going to have people who complain.

People DID attempt to help the creators. People DID make suggestions. But, as anyone who's played a beta will know, the suggestions are almost always ignored.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Not PA team, not the people who are responsible for the development of the game, Jolt hosts it that?s it. Mr Brick didn?t leave because he was making money, neither did spinner. And as for the whole garage thing, if you happened to really like the garage for the services it providers then yes, you will have to deal with some hardships. Its like going to your favorite resterant but having to wait because everyone likes the resterant. Your experience wasn?t perfect, but still good.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Is it that MrBrick left because he wasn't getting paid? (Not true.) Is it that Spinner left because he wasn't getting paid? (Slightly more true, but still invalid.) Are you saying that because PA is popular, people should accept a lower standard of product? That's just silliness.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Its bad for the community I don?t care about that it does for them or for you. They are quitting good buy cia. But most of the threads ive seen lately about ive had enough after round 10 blah blah. Not about how great PA was but now its time to move one. So yes, the quit threads are useless.

Yep, useless. However, people will always post them, and it makes more sense to have a subforum for them, rather than have them clogging up the front page of PD, which looks even worse than having a sub forum.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Ever heard of synergy.

Yep, it's a crappy corporate term. But it still doesn't apply to your faulty cause/effect chain.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Who wants to continue to work on something if they are continuously being told IT sucks you suck and im going to quit. No one. Give it a rest.

Why does microsoft still employ people then?

[Ramihyn]

Originally Posted by wakey

This community does have to take some of the blame, perhaps not for the buisness plan itself but for the events that brought about it. In round 4 the banner ads were paying around $0.03 a click, not a great deal and way down on what they had paid in the past but with 180k planets (or 150k if you remove the 30k multi accounts that were estimated to be in existance) the numbers do add up. 150k * 0.03 gives us a grand total of $4,500 A DAY or somehwre in the region of $378k a round which would have been enough to pay the costs of the game, a good wage for the creators and leaving money to invest in the game. HOWEVER when only 3k of your players (that 2%) click a banner a day that figures much lower (in the region of $90 a day or $7.6k a round) its no where near as healthy.

I dont know what common numbers in return-rate for banner advertisements in the gaming community where - so i cant really judge if 2% is low, normal or high. In some posts it sounded like 80 to 100% was expected - and thats just not really realistic ...

Nevertheless the 2% sound a bit low and the community may have to take some blame here.

Originally Posted by wakey

At this stage it was already clear that banner ads werent enough to support the game but we the players were adament it should remain completly free and when ideas to introduce paid services into the game were suggested we complained, for example the sms message feature was all ready to be implemented until we as a community kicked up such a fuss it was dropped.

I remember the discussions about the SMS feature - at first i thought it would be nice, but after some thinking, i came to the conclusion that the negative effects may severly outweight the positive ones. Just like private galaxies which has pro and con's (see below).

Originally Posted by wakey

Things like this might have brought in enough money to keep the game free to play but we will never know becuase we stopped it being implemented. Also this insistance that it shoudl remain free cant have helped when p2p became inevitable, instead of putting p2p into place gradually the creators tried to keep us happy by trying to run it for free for as long as possible. Perhaps if we had been more open some time and thought could have been put into p2p rather than it being rushed becuase it was what was needed.

The internet/people where absolutely used to get this kind of service for free, it had been that way for years and ofc you have a problem changing that.

Originally Posted by wakey

Then when p2p did come in what did a number of people do, first of all they spread various lies around the community as to why the game went p2p which did put alot of people off paying (although more prominant announcements about the reason from the creators and a little more debunking of the lies by them wouldnt have done any harm).

But that was a rumour management problem which FS just had to deal with properly. If you ignore bad rumours, they can get out of control.

Originally Posted by wakey

And if all that wasnt enough then certain people in this community decided to take offence to paying for the game and proceeded to commit credit card fraud against them which with chargebacks ect resulted ina around $30k being lost.

Yes that was a bad thing - a lesson to learn with buiseness on the internet - you practically have to treat customers from different countries differently" (only allowing cash for payment or not selling your service to them).

Originally Posted by wakey

Oh and not to mention some of the things we demanded were added *cough*private galaies*cough* helped brake down the community spirt which I consider one of the main causes of PA Failure because once the community became segregated along alliance lines the game lost one of its main attractions

Its these type of things on our part which helped compund the bad decisions that were made from a management viewpoint and its why Qdeathstar underlying argument is valid, just his execution was a little lacking. As Qdeathstar asks if we the community realise we were part of the problem and acknowledge that and PATeam realise it was also their (and their predocessors) decisions that were also at fault and ackowledge that we can then start working together as a unit to make the game great again instead of the constant bickering between the two parties and the pulling in differnt directions

And this is the part why i mainly reply and with which (partly) i strongly disagree :P

PA was a great game! I have spend quite some time playing it and naturally (since i am a coder) did also some stuff for it (toolbox, bots) from rd4 on. I did make suggestions and offered solutions to problems. Later when the financial problem was clear, i tried to offer solutions which add (optional) value for the community and generate a small additional income for FS. I made the same experience as ppl did in beta tests. IIRC none of the suggestions where done (ok the anti-bot question thing was done, but like 3 rounds too late and then implemented in a total useless way :/

My last suggestion would have generated a small income for FS, protected players from (then common) hacking and before i suggested it in detailed form (offering to implement it for free if that would have been the problem), i discussed it with several known ppl in the community to see what their opinion was (some posted into the suggestion thread to show their backing up of it across all kind of alliances). I never heard it even considered. Ofc thats a valid choice of FS to basically ignore suggestions, but you cant now apply blame to me as part of the community for things like private galaxies :P

The creators where very good at ignoring or not taking up suggestions and therefore i refuse to take blame for _their_ changes to the game :P

and this is a experience (which i later heard) was a general feeling among even the most known pa "celebs".

[Tomkat]

I say we dress all of PA team in skimpy bikinis, throw them in a mud pit, and let nature take it's course.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I say we dress all of PA team in skimpy bikinis, throw them in a mud pit, and let nature take it's course.

You want PA Team to procreate

[Qdeathstar]

this thread is really all i have to say. I mean look. The PA Team is saying "it really want are fault and anyway
there is nothing we can do now" and the PLayers are saying PA team sucks has sucked and always will suck.

"I say we dress all of PA team in skimpy bikinis, throw them in a mud pit, and let nature take it's course"
"You want PA Team to procreate"

Please dont bother posting if thats all you have to offer, we need more people like MrL_JaKiri and Wakey who although disagree with me dont name call, or place the blame for PA on a sole party. We also need more people like Mushroom who are actually foward thinking and can provide some thoughts with details has to how to move one instead of "its not up to us, we will talkabout it as a group"

Saying "oh lets just F the creators" or whatever really doesnt do anything besides spam O.o.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

I dont know what common numbers in return-rate for banner advertisements in the gaming community where - so i cant really judge if 2% is low, normal or high. In some posts it sounded like 80 to 100% was expected - and thats just not really realistic ...

Nevertheless the 2% sound a bit low and the community may have to take some blame here.

On the internet as a whole the average is around 5% but for sites built around such a 'tight' community as games like PA have its generally higher due to the loyalty and sense of belonging the visitors feel. But even at 5% the figures looked alot better with income per round shotting upto around $22,680

[quote=Ramihyn]
I remember the discussions about the SMS feature - at first i thought it would be nice, but after some thinking, i came to the conclusion that the negative effects may severly outweight the positive ones. Just like private galaxies which has pro and con's (see below).
[QUOTE}

As with everything it had some problems but it wasnt as if most people actually gave it any thought. The members of the big alliances and those who had WAP access just simply dismissed the idea as they felt it was "unfair" to them. In reality it was actually fairer than allowing WAP access imho because it wasnt something which would immeditaly tell you about every attack and you would still need to be at a PC to send ships away ect where as wap you could get instant updates and run ships when ever you liked. The SMS message would only be sent if you had SMS credits and the attack fell in the trigger levels you had set (both for eta and fleet size). You set the fleet trigger too high or eta too low and its not going to detect many attacks or give you time to respond but if you set the fleet level too low or eta too high and its going to catch all the fake launches, accedental launches and too small to worry about attacks and waste all your credit. It simply wasnt something that was going to majorly change the game like the vocal minority who had wap or big alliance membership tried to claim.

And the worst thing is just a round before EVERYONE had been requesting this feature and its why the creators had spent so much time investigating it and getting it ready

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

But that was a rumour management problem which FS just had to deal with properly. If you ignore bad rumours, they can get out of control.

The problem is theres more players than there are Creators/Mods ect to keep rumours in check and this PA community is one thats pretty stubburn and when they get an idea in their head its nigh on impossible to change their minds. Zeus, Myself and a few other mods spend hours a day just replying to the rumour threads with the truth trying to stop it getting out of control. Guess though this is a problem of the internet, all it takes is one person to tell people a rumour and it spreads like wildfire

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

Yes that was a bad thing - a lesson to learn with buiseness on the internet - you practically have to treat customers from different countries differently" (only allowing cash for payment or not selling your service to them).

Apart from the fact when FS tried to do this after the first instance of it everyone else decided to quick up a fuss and threaten to boycot the game

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

And this is the part why i mainly reply and with which (partly) i strongly disagree :P

PA was a great game! I have spend quite some time playing it and naturally (since i am a coder) did also some stuff for it (toolbox, bots) from rd4 on. I did make suggestions and offered solutions to problems. Later when the financial problem was clear, i tried to offer solutions which add (optional) value for the community and generate a small additional income for FS. I made the same experience as ppl did in beta tests. IIRC none of the suggestions where done (ok the anti-bot question thing was done, but like 3 rounds too late and then implemented in a total useless way :/

My last suggestion would have generated a small income for FS, protected players from (then common) hacking and before i suggested it in detailed form (offering to implement it for free if that would have been the problem), i discussed it with several known ppl in the community to see what their opinion was (some posted into the suggestion thread to show their backing up of it across all kind of alliances). I never heard it even considered. Ofc thats a valid choice of FS to basically ignore suggestions, but you cant now apply blame to me as part of the community for things like private galaxies :P

The creators where very good at ignoring or not taking up suggestions and therefore i refuse to take blame for _their_ changes to the game :P

and this is a experience (which i later heard) was a general feeling among even the most known pa "celebs".

On private galaxies and some other changes to the game we do have to take responsability as it was our inistance that such features were added. Zeus had been wanting it for rounds but Spinner always seemed agasint it when it was brought up on suggestions. We put a great deal of pressure as a community to get certain things added and the creators buckled under this pressure even if they didnt agree with them.

And yes alot of good ideas were ignored, actually ignored is the wrong word. Alot of ideas were simply not possible to implement with the finacial constraints and the time constraints that the finacial problems brought with them. They simply couldnt undertake tasks that would require alot of work or major rewrites so they were put on hold and were worked upon when they had some spare time. If you saw the replies to my weekly digest of the suggestions forums ideas that I had to send to spinner you would realise how many ideas he loved and would have liked to see in the game but it just wanst possible to implement them immediatly. Perhaps their only flaw when it came to suggestions was that they werent open enough and thus didnt come out and say "we like these ideas, but time/money issues may prevent them appearing right away but we will try and get as many into the game as possible in the future"

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

The PA Team is saying "it really want are fault and anyway there is nothing we can do now" and the PLayers are saying PA team sucks has sucked and always will suck.

I think you've just found a cause-and-effect relationship.

The reason your arguments are flawed to begin with, is because you're unwilling to accept that Planetarion is indeed a business, with paying customers. And you're expecting the customers to somehow be at fault for the failure of a product and expecting them to go above their 'duty' in order to make the product work, which is simply not how things work.

If a product is good, then the customers will be replying positively. If a product is bad, then the customers will be replying negatively. The only ones responsible for the success of a product, are those that create and market it. In Planetarion's case, that means both PA Team and Jolt.

If you buy something, and that turns out not to live up to your expectations, will you be buying it again just to keep the product going? Will you advise other people to buy it, just to keep the product going? Will you accept that you are responsible for the product being a failure, while you have bought it over and over, yet complained about it a lot? Because you seem to be expecting that that is exactly what all the current Planetarion customers do.

Not to mention the fact that complaints are exactly what creates innovation. If it is apparent that a lot of users have issues with a certain feature, then that feature can be adapted. If everyone thinks that something doesn't work or is flawed and keep silent about it just to preserve the peace, then it will never be adapted. The reason that a lot of complaints are now directed against PA Team themselves, rather than against the game, only indicates that PA Team themselves are at fault for whatever reason (in this case mostly for having a random policy to deal with events, not having listened to valuable player input over the years leading to Planetarion's deterioration as a product, not having an image that conveys responsibility and creates trust). These are serious issues, and customers have all right to complain about these; that does not somehow make them guilty of the product being a failure.

Please dont bother posting if thats all you have to offer, we need more people like MrL_JaKiri and Wakey who although disagree with me dont name call, or place the blame for PA on a sole party.

I can't recall having done any name-calling, but I do disagree with you in placing blame on the users. If that means I somehow can't voice my opinion in this thread, then you shouldn't have posted this in "Planetarion Discussions", but apply for a "Planetarion Agreements" forum to be created.

[Assassin]

Well posted mate nice thread

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by wakey

But even at 5% the figures looked alot better with income per round shotting upto around $22,680

I doubt the amount of players that clicked banners would have mattered. In another thread, Zeus said that the company that paid their banner ad clickthrough rates, went bankrupt owing Fifth Season over 100.000 pounds. If more people had clicked banners, it is likely that the company would simply have gone bankrupt owing Fifth Season more, which means FS would have seen an equal amount of money; none.

Besides which, the banner clicking would not have lasted Planetarion after R4 anymore due to that market collapsing entirely. The only thing which a higher clickthrough rate could have possibly provided was a slightly bigger buffer for FS, but I doubt they could have pushed out more than one free round after R4 on that anyway.

What is more of an interesting point is that PA is now owned by a company which generates it's income from a different activity. With both Spinner and Fudge being ditched and thus no employees being on the payroll, and considering that Jolt already does a considerable amount of server hosting, I see very little reason why Planetarion would be a financial burden on Jolt, and equally little reason why PA would need to be P2P-only. I can appreciate Jolt wanting to at least get their costs for buying PA out of it, and even turning some profit from it, but I don't really see why demanding customers to hand over EUR 15 for a round would be reasonable.

On private galaxies and some other changes to the game we do have to take responsability as it was our inistance that such features were added.

To be honest, I think private galaxies have done a good deal for Planetarion, both positive and negative. If PA had been going random when going P2P, I think the numbers would have dwindled much faster. The ability to play together with friends has counted for a lot, as people have asked/convinced other people to play with them, keeping numbers up. The negative effects have been more long-term; I think it's very hard to predict whether the overall result would have been any better with or without private galaxies.

And yes alot of good ideas were ignored, actually ignored is the wrong word.

To be fair to the players, there have been ideas that were possible to implement but have been ignored or wrongly decided against. Sure, a bunch of good ideas were impossible due to various restraints, but there have been ideas that would have taken little effort and time - and I reckon that's exactly where then PA Crew built it's reputation of not listening to the players, something which has carried over to PA Team.

[Qdeathstar]

No, PA is a business leshy, but if you want something to grow, because you like(d) it then you have to be willing to put a but more into than it sucks.

[Qdeathstar]

Oh, and leshy Name calling is ment to be expaned to any useless spam... i quoted what i thought was useless spam in the previous.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

No, PA is a business leshy

Ok, so you've changed your opinion. That's good to know.

but if you want something to grow, because you like(d) it then you have to be willing to put a but more into than it sucks.

The irony in your posts which you seem to keep failing to understand, is that you are preaching to the choir. The people you are ranting at and blaming, are those that have been putting a lot into PA over the past three years.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Oh, and leshy Name calling is ment to be expaned to any useless spam... i quoted what i thought was useless spam in the previous.

Name calling and spam are two entirely different things. If you are talking about spam, then refer to it that way, as it helps if other people know what you are talking about.

[Qdeathstar]

::rolls eyes::

I havnt changed my mind, i dont know what you are talking about...Ive always said PA was a business, but that the players could still be responcible. Also, the people im talking to, are people like you, who like the point out the negative in anything that see or participate in, and who arent enterested in providing a solution to a problem.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

In the real business world, OFC, but this is a game.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

No, PA is a business

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

I havnt changed my mind, i dont know what you are talking about...

That makes two of us then.

Also, the people im talking to, are people like you, who like the point out the negative in anything that see or participate in, and who arent enterested in providing a solution to a problem.

I have, as have most people on this forum, identified problems in Planetarion and put forward concrete suggestions and improvements on a multitude of occasions. The fact that you may not see something happening, does not mean that it isn't, in fact, happening. Which is likely what ParraCida meant when he replied saying you should get a clue.

Your main point is correct. Planetarion can only grow to what it was with both dedication from PA Team and support from the customers. You are, however, telling the players that have shown the most support towards Planetarion over it's history, that they aren't showing enough. You are scolding players for massively criticizing a sub-par product which they paid more money for than any other round. The fact that these players are still here and complaining, rather than packing their bags and leaving, should tell you that they care, if anything.

[Qdeathstar]

This is both a business and a game, just as it is both a community and a bussiness. However it is more a community than a business because it has always been a community, but it hasnt always been a business. Also, perhaps you have persuaded me to look at bit your way, but that doesnt change what i have said to a great extend, because in my opening thread i didnt debate about whether or not PA was a business.

And you have read what i have said wrong. Ive said that the players are to blame because the critize the PA team. This might be good. But when your critizize something, its good to give feedbck about what you would like.

I gave several things that was wrong with PA team, and several things that is worng with the community.

You have to look at both in order to see what i am talking about

[A2]

Originally Posted by idimmu

A PA Team disconnected from the game is NOT what is needed, infact it's the exact opposite. How will they know what is going on if they aren't playing? Measures need to be in place so Moridin can't attack planats he's just closed (yes I know he isn't PA crew anymore) but that is about it.

PA Team planets, certainly the ones in 1:1 which have admin effectively don't play the game. (If you'd ever tried to play a planet in there you'd realise why it would be next to impossible anyway). Planets in the game are needed for a couple of reasons, one of them being the accessing of the admin tools. They are also a point of communication for anyone who doesn't realise that they can either send an e-mail, post on the forums, or just talk to the team on IRC. Also on the occasions when something seems to be going wrong the planets are useful for trying to reproduce the error which makes it easier to fix.
The fact that they're not played to any extent other than occasionally building a few ships or initiating a few roids means that they won't be used to abuse the game by attacking planets and then promptly closing them.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by idimmu

Oh, and LDK killed PA.

If those shitty Romanians...

LDK is Lithuanian

[wakey]

Nah the CC fraud was by both romanians and lithuanians hence why spinner banned both countries from playing r6. Although this ban didnt last long as for some reason this community decided to get behind them and threatened to boycot the game if the ban was put in place

[Moridin]

[quote=idimmu]A PA Team disconnected from the game is NOT what is needed, infact it's the exact opposite. How will they know what is going on if they aren't playing? Measures need to be in place so Moridin can't attack planats he's just closed (yes I know he isn't PA crew anymore) but that is about it.


I didnt close that planet, though granted, when I was told, I should have broken off, to avoid accusations like these. And to avoid further misunderstandings of this sort, it was decided that pacrew, or at least multippl with access to tools, should not play the game, since no matter what, ppl will belive what they want to belive. (This I think is not a bad rule to have though). I do belive that a crew that plays the game is good, it keeps them more in tune with whats going on (trust me, just reading the forums now and again wont tell you everything).