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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 16:48   #1
All Systems Go
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[Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

In this thread, God does exist. Any comments about God not existing etc... will be unhelpful and a distraction from this question, so pleae refrain yourself from these types of posts.

Now, my question.


Now, in the Bible I believe it is said (probably by Jesus) that people should give up their material posessions etc... Even if it does not it is of little relevance here.

A murderer (if he does not repent) will go to hell. that is a fact. What of the common man? the western world is far better off than most areas on the planet with most of the countrys wealth being here.

Person A is fortunate enough to have been born in one of these afulent countries and get a decent job, making a respectable sum of money. He occasionally gives a little to charity, but not much else.

Person A, by choosing to live with slightly lower living standards could donate more money to charity and save potentially thouands of lives. He does not choose to do this. Person A knows that every penny he spends on some useless gadget for his own short-term amusement could have gone on helping others. this is something he knows, but chooses not to think about.

His actions have a direct impact on the less fortunate and in some cases result in the death of others due to his inaction.

Assuming he repents the rest of his sins (but not this one because he doesn't really think of it as a sin), will this person go to hell for allowing thousands of people to die so he could have a more comfortable lifestyle?
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 16:51   #2
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

repentance doesn't have to be sin specific.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 17:00   #3
All Systems Go
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

If you have no remorse for an action then you cannot repent. Any effort will result in God knowing you lied to him. the consequences of this cannot be plesant.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 17:17   #4
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

the church includes this in its all in one bananza. all sins, no worries.

they probably throw "gay sex" in as standard in africa and we get "death by comsuming" for nowt.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 17:26   #5
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

I was under the impression that, in some situations, if you genuinely don't know it's a sin, it isn't, because knowing is half the battle.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 17:57   #6
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

i assume that person, like all intelligent christians,

will realize the error of his ways on his deathbed, and be saved!
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 18:10   #7
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If you have no remorse for an action then you cannot repent. Any effort will result in God knowing you lied to him. the consequences of this cannot be plesant.
remorse doesn't have to be sin specific
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 18:12   #8
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
remorse doesn't have to be sin specific
Do you have a point?
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 18:16   #9
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
A murderer (if he does not repent) will go to hell. that is a fact.
No this is incorrect. Serious theology is pretty much not in agreement that there is a place such as 'Hell' at all in Christianity. Conditionalism (which I think is the idea that our souls are not immortal at all), universalism (everyone is going to heaven), annihilism (the unrepentent experience complete death), and other variants are in contention with traditional views (and with each other). Also I remember reading about how the notion of fire and brimstone Hell is a later invention.

Interesting reads:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Hell
http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Lib...dy/ibi_4_2.htm (scroll down to Which "hell" should we go to?')

Quote from the last link:
Quote:
If the minister says that your father is in Gehenna, you must say, as graciously as ever and with all earnestness, "Then let us take a plane to Jerusalem and look for him there." If the minister says that your father is in Tartarus, remark that, while your father did, on occasion, fail to remember your mother's birthday, he was never a stubborn, sinning angel who surrendered his sovereignty during the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:19-20. 2 Pet. 2:4, Jude 6). If the minister says that your father is in hades, let a smile come to your face and rejoice aloud in front of the startled cleric that, like Christ (Acts 2:3 l), David (Ps. 16: 10), and Jacob (Gn. 37:35) before him, your father has ceased from his troubles and sufferings (Jb. 3:11-19), and now rests, as if asleep (Jn. 11:11,14).
Of course, Travler (a perfect 7 letters, the power of Jesus prevails!) will come in here and spew the stuff his under-educated pastor will have fed him, but pay no attention.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 00:47   #10
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

I think theres a difference between directly murdering someone (ie shooting someone) and indirectly killing someone (ie not giving money to charity).
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 02:59   #11
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
No this is incorrect. Serious theology is pretty much not in agreement that there is a place such as 'Hell' at all in Christianity. Conditionalism (which I think is the idea that our souls are not immortal at all), universalism (everyone is going to heaven), annihilism (the unrepentent experience complete death), and other variants are in contention with traditional views (and with each other). Also I remember reading about how the notion of fire and brimstone Hell is a later invention.
There is plenty of fire in the Bible. Brimstone seem to be mostly in the King James version. Here is an example:
Luke 17:29 (King James Version)
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Of course, Travler (a perfect 7 letters, the power of Jesus prevails!) will come in here and spew the stuff his under-educated pastor will have fed him, but pay no attention.
I have never asked my Pastor about his education but I can tell you that in our church he started out as a musician,singer, and the worship director. You can find more about Chuck at http://christtemplechurch.net/.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 03:37   #12
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
There is plenty of fire in the Bible. Brimstone seem to be mostly in the King James version. Here is an example:
Luke 17:29 (King James Version)
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all
Okay so can you tell me where in this picture Hell is. Thanks.

And while we're at it, can you point to heaven? Maybe in the Andromeda Galaxy? Maybe this one? Or maybe one of these. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
I have never asked my Pastor about his education but I can tell you that in our church he started out as a musician,singer, and the worship director. You can find more about Chuck at http://christtemplechurch.net/.
Who needs to think when god will do it for you amirite
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 05:54   #13
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Okay so can you tell me where in this picture Hell is. Thanks.
You think Hell is located in the center of the earth? How should I know where Hell is. Why don't you ask someone that resides there. I really have no desire to go there so I really don't care where Hell is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
And while we're at it, can you point to heaven? Maybe in the Andromeda Galaxy? Maybe this one? Or maybe one of these. Thanks.
You are looking for heaven and God in those pictures. I am seeing Heaven and God. Heaven is a spiritual place. You cannot find it in the physical realm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Who needs to think when god will do it for you amirite
Proverbs 3:5 (New International Version)
Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;


Yeah actually that would be perfect if God could think for me. I would have the mind of Christ. Unfortunately I am still stuck in my intellect for now but someday I pray to be in the spirit where Jesus dwells.
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Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 06:08   #14
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
You think Hell is located in the center of the earth? How should I know where Hell is. Why don't you ask someone that resides there. I really have no desire to go there so I really don't care where Hell is.
You are looking for heaven and God in those pictures. I am seeing Heaven and God. Heaven is a spiritual place. You cannot find it in the physical realm.
What is a realm and where can you find one and how many are there and do you have anything that you can show me that substantiates the existence of realms, and then also of the specific realms you're speaking of. Or are you willing to believe in the existence of 'realms' without any physical evidence and if so why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Proverbs 3:5 (New International Version)
Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;


Yeah actually that would be perfect if God could think for me. I would have the mind of Christ. Unfortunately I am still stuck in my intellect for now but someday I pray to be in the spirit where Jesus dwells.
See this is what is brilliant about Christianity, it's like a mind virus. A computer virus can sometimes disable anti-virus software, in order to keep the anti-virus software from detecting the computer virus' bullshit activity. Christianity, the mind virus, disables cognitive functions and criticism, in order to keep the cognitive functions and criticisms from detecting Christianity's bullshit. Hence it took incredibly amazing, super amazing, and superduper amazing people to observe and face incongruities in the universe and finally force thinking individuals to sit down and come to grips with virus activity of the mind.


Edit: wow I love this painting of Copernicus, I just made it my desktop.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 06:30   #15
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all
I maybe misreading his original post, but s|k seems to be saying that the concept of a fiery hell was relatively new. Not that the bible didn't have fire in it full stop.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 09:46   #16
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Okay so can you tell me where in this picture Hell is. Thanks.
As in this thread we're considering the Christian God to be correct...

Heaven and Hell would obviously be in a different dimension and so cannot be physically pointed at.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 10:07   #17
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

I hear if you wave your arms around your head and pirouette on one foot while yelling "hocus pocus lack of focus I don't believe in the diplidocus" god appears from the other dimension and gives you a wedgy.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:13   #18
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Exclamation Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I hear if you wave your arms around your head and pirouette on one foot while yelling "hocus pocus lack of focus I don't believe in the diplidocus" god appears from the other dimension and gives you a wedgy.
Nope.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:22   #19
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Nope.
You have to believe dude
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:23   #20
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Heaven and Hell would obviously be in a different dimension and so cannot be physically pointed at.
obviously
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:33   #21
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
obviously
I'd be careful if I were you sarcastic people get sent to another dimension where they have to work on salt-farms for a thousand years
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:33   #22
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Sometimes I think people like s|k get confused.

It is not necessary for Christianity to be wrong in order for Traveler to be exposed as stupid. For example when the idea that a fire a brimstone hell was a latter addition to christian doctrine was raised Traveler responded with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler
There is plenty of fire in the Bible.
It is thereinby pretty ****ing obvious to anyone reading that that Traveler is at least one sandwich short of a picnic. There is no need for s|k to go on and randomly attack christian belief by asking people to point out hell or heaven on man made maps. It's just unnecessary and it just looks silly.

The problem only arises because christianity doesn't set an entrance exam.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:37   #23
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I hear if you wave your arms around your head and pirouette on one foot while yelling "hocus pocus lack of focus I don't believe in the diplidocus" god appears from the other dimension and gives you a wedgy.
I heard that he merely remonstrates with you over some really bad rhyme.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:42   #24
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I heard that he merely remonstrates with you over some really bad rhyme.
I double dare you to find two other words that I could have rhymed with "hocus pocus". Double dare.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:45   #25
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k

See this is what is brilliant about Christianity, it's like a mind virus. A computer virus can sometimes disable anti-virus software, in order to keep the anti-virus software from detecting the computer virus' bullshit activity. Christianity, the mind virus, disables cognitive functions and criticism, in order to keep the cognitive functions and criticisms from detecting Christianity's bullshit. Hence it took incredibly amazing, super amazing, and superduper amazing people to observe and face incongruities in the universe and finally force thinking individuals to sit down and come to grips with virus activity of the mind.
Oh no! it's the atheism meme! He's losing his marbles! Mild condescension is our only hope of rebuttal.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:47   #26
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I double dare you to find two other words that I could have rhymed with "hocus pocus". Double dare.
Locus. Hopeless (:P).
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 12:56   #27
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Locus. Hopeless (:P).
Hocus pocus near the christian locus for jesus cried "it's totally hopeless"?
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:05   #28
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
As in this thread we're considering the Christian God to be correct...

Heaven and Hell would obviously be in a different dimension and so cannot be physically pointed at.
On the contrary, I don't think the apostles or Paul were watching the same cartoons as you when they were growing up and probably didn't know anything about 'dimensions,' whatever those are supposed to be.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:07   #29
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
It is not necessary for Christianity to be wrong in order for Traveler to be exposed as stupid. There is no need for s|k to go on and randomly attack christian belief by asking people to point out hell or heaven on man made maps. It's just unnecessary and it just looks silly.

The problem only arises because christianity doesn't set an entrance exam.
I am not attacking Travler (except when he posts rubbish), I am attacking Christianity.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:11   #30
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I am not attacking Travler (except when he posts rubbish), I am attacking Christianity.
I don't think you're clever enough to achieve your stated aim.

I also fail to see what you will gain from such a course of action.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:15   #31
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Oh no! it's the atheism meme! He's losing his marbles! Mild condescension is our only hope of rebuttal.
'Atheism' is definition by exclusion. That word defines me by comparison to something I am not, it defines me by what I do not believe in, hence I do not say I am atheist. I say I am a Humanist. I believe that humans are responsible for their own actions and for their own destiny. I say that I am a empircist. I believe in what can be observed and avoid speculating about things that are impossible to know.

Also if you are going to critize me, you should make an argument of some sort and a better effort.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:17   #32
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I don't think you're clever enough to achieve your stated aim.
What you think, at least in this instance, is not important to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I also fail to see what you will gain from such a course of action.
Edification, catharsis, flow, etc
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:23   #33
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
What you think, at least in this instance, is not important to me.

Edification, catharsis, flow, etc
you'd do better speaking to a psychiatrist if you want those things.

trying to be the first person to prove christianity wrong may well only add to the problem
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 17:34   #34
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you'd do better speaking to a psychiatrist if you want those things.
Unwarranted personal attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
trying to be the first person to prove christianity wrong may well only add to the problem
One cannot prove Christianity is wrong ( in fact I'll go so far as that one cannot prove anything - you can only show supporting evidence for or against something). Much about Christian beliefs is not falsifiable, and that is one of the many reasons why I criticize it. I only said I was attacking Christianity, not that I was trying to disprove it. In any case, the burden of proof lies with Christianity, and with its adherents. So I argue. I argue in order to get at something other than 'because the bible told me so.' I argue in order to point out again and again where religious fantasy fails to explain the universe, fails to account for discrepancy. I attack Christianity because it leads to inolerant ideas, because it leads to judgement of others. There are probably a few other reasons. If you have nothing else to say other than 'you're insane' you should just stop posting because I am not going to listen to it or bother to read your posts.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 18:59   #35
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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Originally Posted by s|k
Edification, catharsis, flow, etc
Catharsis is much more likely to come/be of value for you if you go and see a psychiatrist. It may even lead to edification.

I stand by my advice and I do not see what you will gain from your (self confessed) biggoted and intolerent attack on christianity or how it will actually help you achieve any of these things.

(not that i would call it an attack as such being that so far it amounts to little more than a soap box rant)
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 19:08   #36
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
I stand by my advice and I do not see what you will gain from your (self confessed) biggoted and intolerent attack on christianity will actually help you achieve any of these things.
If I were to make dogmatic assertions about Christianity that were untrue or did not offer any explanation as to why I made them, then I could see how what I do is mere bigotry and intolerence. I am simply participating in a conversation about Christianity, a conversation in which I am taking a stance in. I did not start this thread.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 19:12   #37
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Oh falsifiability
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 19:51   #38
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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Oh falsifiability
Yeah, but unlike Wikipedians I have a pretty decent clue as to what it means.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 20:29   #39
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

s|k is a christpobe with latent Christian tendencies and may actually be a closet Christian. Why else would he react so vehemently?
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 21:11   #40
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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Originally Posted by dda
s|k is a christpobe with latent Christian tendencies and may actually be a closet Christian. Why else would he react so vehemently?
Yeah, like the other day I was reading The Sun and they were raging on about sex offenders being let off too lightly and I was like "lol clearly the guy who wrote this article was a repressed paedophile"!
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 22:21   #41
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

So you understand the point, then.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 22:30   #42
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

I try to avoid understanding issues, it detracts from good humour I find.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 22:31   #43
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

I thought humor was the point.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 22:36   #44
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

We're still in the middle of the joke old timer.
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Unread 30 Jun 2006, 22:44   #45
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Obviously, why else have religion if not to bring a smile to one's face.
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Unread 1 Jul 2006, 03:33   #46
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Sometimes I think people like s|k get confused.

It is not necessary for Christianity to be wrong in order for Traveler to be exposed as stupid. For example when the idea that a fire a brimstone hell was a latter addition to christian doctrine was raised Traveler responded with:
Sigh, Can you not be so mean once in a while. Do you have to call me stupid? My point is that the King James version has been around a while and is derived from translations. The King James version has been around for quite a while and most Christians are using that translation in one form or another.

Stop reverting to name calling. Make your point without being insulting. It only makes your point less credible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
It is thereinby pretty ****ing obvious to anyone reading that that Traveler is at least one sandwich short of a picnic. There is no need for s|k to go on and randomly attack christian belief by asking people to point out hell or heaven on man made maps. It's just unnecessary and it just looks silly.
Again more debasing. But in truth if your only missing one sandwich your only doing as bad as 97% of the worlds population that can be diagnosed with some form of mental illness. The Bible says that you are made whole in Christ. So Jesus is my missing sandwich and thats gotta be good.
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Originally Posted by Yahwe
The problem only arises because christianity doesn't set an entrance exam.
Of course there is no entrance exam. It's not like taking a drivers test or being ordained for the clergy. Most religeons that require a test are usually cults.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 1 Jul 2006, 03:47   #47
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Unwarranted personal attack.


One cannot prove Christianity is wrong ( in fact I'll go so far as that one cannot prove anything - you can only show supporting evidence for or against something). Much about Christian beliefs is not falsifiable, and that is one of the many reasons why I criticize it. I only said I was attacking Christianity, not that I was trying to disprove it. In any case, the burden of proof lies with Christianity, and with its adherents. So I argue. I argue in order to get at something other than 'because the bible told me so.' I argue in order to point out again and again where religious fantasy fails to explain the universe, fails to account for discrepancy. I attack Christianity because it leads to inolerant ideas, because it leads to judgement of others. There are probably a few other reasons. If you have nothing else to say other than 'you're insane' you should just stop posting because I am not going to listen to it or bother to read your posts.
I think you make a valid point here. Christianity has this appearance of being intolerent and judgemental. Christ told us "Judge not lest ye be Judged" and "Let him that hath no sin cast the first stone." Clearly Christ wanted to let us know that we were not in a position to judge. For some the Bible is easiest just to follow without thought but its not about religeon or rules...its about a real relationship with the pure undying love of Jesus. The words can only take you so far. The Bible can only teach you so much. A pastor or priest can only preach so much. Your revalation about the reality of Jesus must come directly from Jesus. Christ invited me several times before I accepted. It was not his followers that convinced me but Jesus himself that I came to know.

Now I am not saying that we sat in a coffee shop and shared a doughnut or anything but if you are willing to listen he is there wispering in your ears. He is in your dreams. He shows himself to you in unlikely places. There is no rulebook to finding Christ. No pattern to follow. No pathway to tread. Your journey to God is your own and only you can follow it. It would take several posts for me to share exactly how I came to know Christ and I am still working on writing it down but one day I plan to share my testimony about the glory of God.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 1 Jul 2006, 04:34   #48
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

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It would take several posts for me to share exactly how I came to know Christ and I am still working on writing it down but one day I plan to share my testimony about the glory of God.
Why are you willing to believe in something that clearly isn't real. So you say that all these things you can't see are in different 'realms.' But how do you know any of that is real?

If you make the argument that "I feel it inside me' well you know a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs are based on internal thoughts and feelings. What you feel for your religion, your connection with god or what have you, others feel that with spirits like in animism, or with their dead relatives like in Shinto. Just bear with me for a minute, here and put aside your doubt, put down your walls and just let's assume that whever your feeling is the result of various chemicals in your brain and other parts of your body.

I have taken some pretty powerful drugs in my life, and I will tell you that chemicals can make you feel and see all sorts of shit that isn't real. They are that powerful. So, it's not too much to assume that whatever you are feeling inside is just a normal physiological phenomenon that can seem pretty real, but isn't anything. I think experimentation with drugs has at least shown to me that you just can't trust what you feel inside. I think my experience with mentally ill people, shut up yahwe, has also shown me that chemical 'inbalances' can severely alter people's perception of the world around them, of how they feel, and what emotions they experience.

You should not put any credence in what you feel internally, you should not use it as a basis or foundation for a highly unplausible idea. There's absolutely no honesty there, within you. It's chemicals, and perception. If you have nothing else to go by, other than how you feel, you really don't have much to stand on.
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Unread 1 Jul 2006, 05:05   #49
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Why are you willing to believe in something that clearly isn't real. So you say that all these things you can't see are in different 'realms.' But how do you know any of that is real?

If you make the argument that "I feel it inside me' well you know a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs are based on internal thoughts and feelings. What you feel for your religion, your connection with god or what have you, others feel that with spirits like in animism, or with their dead relatives like in Shinto. Just bear with me for a minute, here and put aside your doubt, put down your walls and just let's assume that whever your feeling is the result of various chemicals in your brain and other parts of your body.

I have taken some pretty powerful drugs in my life, and I will tell you that chemicals can make you feel and see all sorts of shit that isn't real. They are that powerful. So, it's not too much to assume that whatever you are feeling inside is just a normal physiological phenomenon that can seem pretty real, but isn't anything. I think experimentation with drugs has at least shown to me that you just can't trust what you feel inside. I think my experience with mentally ill people, shut up yahwe, has also shown me that chemical 'inbalances' can severely alter people's perception of the world around them, of how they feel, and what emotions they experience.

You should not put any credence in what you feel internally, you should not use it as a basis or foundation for a highly unplausible idea. There's absolutely no honesty there, within you. It's chemicals, and perception. If you have nothing else to go by, other than how you feel, you really don't have much to stand on.
People claim to be abducted by aliens. Science can put a specially designed helmet on a person and can simulate the experience of being abducted by using magnetic and electric force through the helment, test subjects recall feelings similar to abduction stories. So I know what you are saying about just pure feelings and thoughts.

I know you cannot believe me because I don't think you have been touched by God in a way that makes you say to yourself "Oh S**t, what if this crap is true." I have seen the power of God in my life. I had a dream one night that totally changed my perception from "Well maybe there is a God but maybe there is not" to "God has acknowledged me and affirmed that he does exist and is real." It was the most amazing dream I have ever had even better than the one where I could fly like superman in my 35 years on this earth. The reality of that dream was both shocking and uncomparable. I know that dreams are often not real or can be taken litterally but this dream totally changed my life and my Belief in God. Granted it would take me another 11-12 years before I would believe in Jesus as salvation but that journey is another story.

I once saw a car traveling at high velocity crash into an invisible force behind my car and run off the road. I though I was going to die but something (and I will say it had to be God) kept that speeding car from hitting mine in such a way that the car appeared to just suddenly have hit a brick wall. There was no obvious physicall damage to that car but the way it moved did not make sense to me in terms of the dynamics that operate on a vehicle in motion even taking consideration of factors such a tire grip on the road at high speeds and tempertures. Emperical data on the existance of God is both impossible and infinite.
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Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 1 Jul 2006, 05:46   #50
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Re: [Christianity] A question to those of religious leanings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
People claim to be abducted by aliens. Science can put a specially designed helmet on a person and can simulate the experience of being abducted by using magnetic and electric force through the helment, test subjects recall feelings similar to abduction stories. So I know what you are saying about just pure feelings and thoughts.

I know you cannot believe me because I don't think you have been touched by God in a way that makes you say to yourself "Oh S**t, what if this crap is true." I have seen the power of God in my life. I had a dream one night that totally changed my perception from "Well maybe there is a God but maybe there is not" to "God has acknowledged me and affirmed that he does exist and is real." It was the most amazing dream I have ever had even better than the one where I could fly like superman in my 35 years on this earth. The reality of that dream was both shocking and uncomparable. I know that dreams are often not real or can be taken litterally but this dream totally changed my life and my Belief in God. Granted it would take me another 11-12 years before I would believe in Jesus as salvation but that journey is another story.

I once saw a car traveling at high velocity crash into an invisible force behind my car and run off the road. I though I was going to die but something (and I will say it had to be God) kept that speeding car from hitting mine in such a way that the car appeared to just suddenly have hit a brick wall. There was no obvious physicall damage to that car but the way it moved did not make sense to me in terms of the dynamics that operate on a vehicle in motion even taking consideration of factors such a tire grip on the road at high speeds and tempertures. Emperical data on the existance of God is both impossible and infinite.
I was touched by God, once, only we called it 'Yellow Dolphins,' (little yellow MDMA pills with dolphins on them).

All these internalized experiences are really meaningless and could be nothing more than indigestion and an uncritical disposition.
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