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Unread 1 Feb 2009, 20:37   #1
CBA
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New PA TEAM

some people from the community selected via the community to help in important discission makings PA team make...

Not to be added to #support necessarily but to just make sure everything that happens is thought through.
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Unread 1 Feb 2009, 22:53   #2
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Re: New PA TEAM

I think we should be a little less eager to criticise (even by implication) those people who have shown that they're prepared to sacrifice their time for the benefit of the game and the community.

Yes, we can all be annoyed when things go wrong but the person who never made a mistake never made anything - and most of us fall into the category of never having made anything in relation to this game.

I suppose what I'm really saying is ... get off their backs.
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Unread 1 Feb 2009, 23:03   #3
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Re: New PA TEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I think we should be a little less eager to criticise (even by implication) those people who have shown that they're prepared to sacrifice their time for the benefit of the game and the community.

Yes, we can all be annoyed when things go wrong but the person who never made a mistake never made anything - and most of us fall into the category of never having made anything in relation to this game.

I suppose what I'm really saying is ... get off their backs.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 00:43   #4
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
some people from the community selected via the community to help in important discission makings PA team make...

Not to be added to #support necessarily but to just make sure everything that happens is thought through.
Everybody makes mistakes at work.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 00:56   #5
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Re: New PA TEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I think we should be a little less eager to criticise (even by implication) those people who have shown that they're prepared to sacrifice their time for the benefit of the game and the community.

Yes, we can all be annoyed when things go wrong but the person who never made a mistake never made anything - and most of us fall into the category of never having made anything in relation to this game.

I suppose what I'm really saying is ... get off their backs.

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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 01:20   #6
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Re: New PA TEAM

I dont know, It does seem that the PA Team no matter how much people would like to defend them and regardless of the effort they put in... They seem to be out of touch with the community and what should happen. So it really wouldnt be a bad thing to have someone sensible to slap them when they try and do something stupid..

'hey, should we implement these quests and rewards into the game without any feedback from the community?'
*slap*

'hey can we implement untested code onto the live game?'
*slap*

'What time should we implement this patch? at 10:00 in the middle of landings?'
*slap*

'Games gone down, shall we leave the ticker running?'
*slap*

etc.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 06:19   #7
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
So it really wouldnt be a bad thing to have someone sensible to slap them when they try and do something stupid..
and who would you pick for the job?
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 13:37   #8
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Re: New PA TEAM

I've said this a dozen times before: the problem is that there is no game development in PA. Isolated new features are added whenever someone in PA team feels like implementing them, but no vision exists outside of "what shall we do in the next 3 weeks?". I respect the reasonably intelligent people in PA team who have put in more time than our spoilt asses deserve (Appoco, for one), but to claim any kind of coherent game development is taking place in PA is nothing short of delusional.

Even so, if there's one thing that's incompatible with game development, it's democracy. If anything, the community should have less input in the process. Sure, they can make suggestions, but giving them any influence beyond that would be foolish. Each game has its own audience. It should be expected that people who enjoyed one version of PA will likely not enjoy another version of it. Introducing significant changes will almost always drive away the old user base, resulting in conservatism and stagnation.

Personally, I question if it is viable at all to keep a game in beta indefinitely. Active advertisement could supplement the user base to the point of sustainability, but in a game with as little (potential and actual) revenue as PA, this is simply not feasible.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 14:54   #9
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Even so, if there's one thing that's incompatible with game development, it's democracy. If anything, the community should have less input in the process. Sure, they can make suggestions, but giving them any influence beyond that would be foolish. Each game has its own audience. It should be expected that people who enjoyed one version of PA will likely not enjoy another version of it. Introducing significant changes will almost always drive away the old user base, resulting in conservatism and stagnation.
I dont know if thats really the option we want to be going for, when the vast majority of the community at the moment feels the PA Team is out of touch with the game. Certainly, on some features the community needs to be ignoring.. (Take for example when admins wanted to introduce Pre-Launch, active community needed to be ignored).

The real problem is what happend on Sunday monday, where a PA Team member wakes up and decides to implement some new things.. with no prior warning or feedback from the community. If he had just posted up the quests he wanted implemented prior to sunday morning, the community would of said the flaws (which are easy to spot) and the quests wouldnt of been implemented (or just tweaked).

Even if in some cases its better to ignore the community, its always better to at least tell them what you have planned.. so they can raise there concerns with you (Then its up to the PA Team to decide weither thoses concerns are valid).
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 16:23   #10
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Re: New PA TEAM

Mid round changes are retarded, let's get that out of the way first.

As for the rest of your post, the community has no idea what they're talking about. That's why they need to be ignored. The real problem is that PA team doesn't either. The community is biased towards conservatism. They will say no to good and bad ideas alike (prelaunch being a prime example). I can think of several people who I respect on a personal level, but who are about as suitable for game development as three small mice and half a horse (the rear end). And even if the community was useful in this regard, it'd only work if PA team had a long term vision by which to judge these concerns, which they don't.

All that said, I've been a proponent of more open development for quite some time now.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 2 Feb 2009 at 16:30.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 16:23   #11
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Re: New PA TEAM

It's not like we need a ****ing vote to decide on what's a terrible idea and what's not. Basic competence will serve adequately there.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 16:54   #12
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Ticks restarting at 11:00 GMT. Please view the latest announcement on our portal for more information. The new quests will not be re-imeplemented this round.
I think there is quite a lot of "basic competence", but some attention wouldn't hurt. Like in the announcement, as if R31 was coming up. :/
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 17:07   #13
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by ricoshay View Post
I think there is quite a lot of "basic competence", but some attention wouldn't hurt. Like in the announcement, as if R31 was coming up. :/
I dunno man I'm rather looking forward to galaxytarion under the current administration. Does incompetence by any other name smell as shit? We'll soon know!
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 17:19   #14
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Re: New PA TEAM

Doubt I'll bother with it. This would be my 8th round of PA and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a round so far without problems caused by "fixing issues" or "implementing new features" mid-round. It leaves a bitter taste eventually.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it'll smell the same. :/
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 17:33   #15
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Re: New PA TEAM

All we needed was more info about problems that happen. Other games have a Head Figure which we all know.

And the fact that the rollback isnt enough, it should be 24 hours back and leave fleets flying that were at that time.

But then a roll back wouldnt have been required this time if the new quests were added in the middle of the game.

They should at least stop ticks for 24 hours, and have a downtime to test on the live server.

Testing between Beta and Live servers isnt always exact, and differences on system can occur.

Rollbacks are pretty much the only resort in this game, and no other attempt should be made.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 17:33   #16
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Re: New PA TEAM

At the end of the day, if pa team was full of cool people (a la 5th season? what were spinner & co's company called) we wouldn't really care, perhaps even laugh off things like yesterday (some people take pa far too seriously - though ofc its fine for people like ricoshay who wasted hours for nothing to moan )

As it is, most of us think pa-team are paunchy half-faced death-token idle-headed minnows [/insult-o-matic.com]. Appocomaster is the exception, but he rules with more of a gay man's slap than an iron fist.

I personally hope galaxytarion will have some new admins - even someone like JBG would be good. Ok not everyone loves the light that shines out of his arse, but at least he and similar people have a bit of common sense mixed in with irc-people-skills.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 20:31   #17
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Re: New PA TEAM

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As it is, most of us think pa-team are paunchy half-faced death-token idle-headed minnows [/insult-o-matic.com]. Appocomaster is the exception, but he rules with more of a gay man's slap than an iron fist.
It's almost a 'tradition' for a PA-Team member to screw something up at some point, so in one sense Appoco kind of owed us one, and with this being the last round he was running out of options

And like JBG I also look forward to r1 of Galaxytarion, I think this game concept will benefit from being without a corporate choke hold.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 21:24   #18
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
some people from the community selected via the community to help in important discission makings PA team make...
This actually does happen through several formats, through the dev team and the alliance reps forums users do have significant input on what does and does not get developed. I do however agree with Mzyxptlk that democracy is not the right way to develop game code, and PA has been without a true developer for a long time, basically since spinner left.

Having spent a long time now as a member of the support team and dev team I have had a very good opportunity to see what the PA Team does right and what it does wrong. While the team members all have flaws and they do make mistakes (like the one over this weekend) I have found them all well meaning individuals who are doing the best they can in the difficult circumstances given to them by the various owners of PA over the years.

With the potential demise of PA at the end of this round and the possible (but far from certain) rebirth as "galaxytarion" we will see what the new PA Team will be able to do. I know that there are plans to restructure the "GA Team" for the new game, and if it all comes to fruition then hopefully things will get better from a development standpoint.
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Unread 2 Feb 2009, 22:02   #19
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
And like JBG I also look forward to r1 of Galaxytarion, I think this game concept will benefit from being without a corporate choke hold.
I dont get this talk of being benefited by not being backed by a corporation.

99% of the downtime problems we've occured or the problems assosiated with them (i.e. last round when PA went down, someone forgot to stop the ticker).. So that wont change?

The only thing i see changing is that the game will be put on less reliable servers? unless im mistaken?
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Unread 3 Feb 2009, 00:30   #20
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Re: New PA TEAM

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
I dont get this talk of being benefited by not being backed by a corporation.
...
The only thing i see changing is that the game will be put on less reliable servers? unless im mistaken?
Development could change a lot, there are a number of things that Cin/Appoco have wanted to do that have been vetoed by the owners of PA over the years. Also with the folks who actually do the work finally getting the reward for PA there may finally be incentive to attract more talent to work on PA on a more regular basis. It is hard to motivate talented coders/developers to work their rears off for free while someone else reaps all the reward, even when they love the game.
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