Planetarion Forums

Mistwraith · 30 Aug 2007, 18:27

http://www.tobaccoagechange.co.uk/

Not the most widely publised change as yet, but i'm sure the spam will appear eventually, i really hope so, because almost no-one knows about it apart from retailers.

looking forward to ID'ing teenagers who already smoke and are going through nicotine withdrawl and getting abused by em when they have no proof !

JOYS!
i should get danger pay !

furball · 30 Aug 2007, 18:31

It's going to be great. The publicity will ramp up about a month before I guess, as happened with the public places ban. 16/17 year olds who smoke are ****ed!

All Systems Go · 30 Aug 2007, 18:31

No ****ing way.

Mzyxptlk · 30 Aug 2007, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by That site

The importance of this is clear when you realise that one in two lifelong smokers will be killed by their addiction.

The other lives forever!

Awake · 30 Aug 2007, 19:14

lol at all the 15 - 16 year old that think they're 'ard having a fag

Allfather · 30 Aug 2007, 19:27

Dont see the big problem, they did the same here 10 years or so ago.
If they really want cigarettes, this wont stop them.

I smoke myself and have done so for 15 years or so, but I dont mind limits set to 18 for smoking, or for that matter 20 for alcohol or 20-25 for driving.
Give the world most rules, cause people are in general retarded and need to be restricted by the mighty pen!

Yahwe · 30 Aug 2007, 21:41

I'm not sceptical, i'm just a lawyer.

the health act 2006 said:

13 Power to amend age for sale of tobacco etc.
(1) The Secretary of State may from time to time by order amend the following
enactments by substituting, in each place where a person’s age is specified, a
different age specified in the order—
(a) section 7 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 (c. 12) (sale of
tobacco etc. to persons under 16),
(b) section 4 of the Children and Young Persons (Protection from Tobacco)
Act 1991 (c. 23) (display of warning statements in retail premises and
on vending machines).
(2) But the age specified in an order under subsection (1) may not be lower than 16
or higher than 18.

I am unaware of any "order by the secretary of state" i.e. a relevant statutory instrument which has so far been enacted.

I will say candidly that it would not surprise me if one existed - no one reads statutory instruments ... no one

However i would expect more publicity if one were passed - what else is the media for?

All Systems Go · 30 Aug 2007, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

However i would expect more publicity if one were passed - what else is the media for?

Big breasted Arian women?

Yahwe · 30 Aug 2007, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Big breasted Arian women?

albino howling gorillas

Mistwraith · 30 Aug 2007, 21:47

Quote:

Stage One (May – June 2007)
In this stage the Department of Health has engaged with the retail industry, health groups, compliance organisations, and the accredited proof of age schemes, to find the best ways to build awareness amongst their membership.

Stage Two (July 2007)
Further engagement with the groups mentioned above, as well as schools, colleges and youth organisations is taking place in stage two. In addition media relations (both trade and consumer media) has begun, the website has been launched and a mailing has been sent to retailers with higher volumes of 16-17 year old customers.

Stage Three (August – September 2007)
A second mailing will be sent out in August to over 100,000 retailers in England and Wales. This will include a toolkit and signage, which will both be available to download from this website at the end of August. Work with stakeholder organisations and media relations will continue, and activity targeting teenagers will commence, including the launch of a dedicated website, online advertising and work with consumer magazines.

Stage Four (September – October 2007)
This stage of the campaign will focus on reminding retailers and teenagers of the change in the law. An outdoor poster advertising campaign will launch in September at targeted locations, including local convenience stores where teenagers buy cigarettes. Partner organisations are also likely to be carrying out activity during stages three and four, including the dissemination of materials to retail outlets by the "No ID, No Sale" team

.

that from that site on the campiagn bit

i heard about it in May from a trade magazine cos i work in an off licence , we've had no word from head office about the change at all!

Yahwe · 30 Aug 2007, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistwraith

.

that from that site on the campiagn bit

i heard about it in May from a trade magazine cos i work in an off licence , we've had no word from head office about the change at all!

yeah what i am asking for is a statutory instrument. they look like mini acts of parliament and are numbered like this - SI/2468698 etc.

I can see that the health act 2006 gives the minister (secretary of state) the power to amend the law but what i can't see is when the SoS actually has done.

I just like proof

furball · 31 Aug 2007, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

yeah what i am asking for is a statutory instrument. they look like mini acts of parliament and are numbered like this - SI/2468698 etc.

I can see that the health act 2006 gives the minister (secretary of state) the power to amend the law but what i can't see is when the SoS actually has done.

I just like proof

From what I can tell such an order hasn't been laid yet, so presumably it will be soonish.

milo · 1 Sep 2007, 00:22

Did a bit of searching, its listed as a draft SI

Quote:

The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007

Superseded by SI 2007 No 767
SI 2007/767 - Web version (HTML)
SI 2007/767 - Print version (PDF - 42 KB)
SI 2007/767 - Explanatory Memorandum (PDF - 107 KB)

Yahwe · 2 Sep 2007, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

Did a bit of searching, its listed as a draft SI

ta

Knight Theamion · 30 Aug 2007, 23:05

Cigarettes should be illegal anyway, they became popular due to misconception and deception, why not use some heavy force to **** them over.

Mistwraith · 30 Aug 2007, 23:30

So did most stuff thats bad for u !

roadrunner_0 · 30 Aug 2007, 23:43

can you imagine if governments tried to ban them? christ, the legal cases would drag on for years and years

Knight Theamion · 30 Aug 2007, 23:48

They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S

roadrunner_0 · 31 Aug 2007, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S

1. what do you think all these new rules and regs are meant to do?

2. it became popular before the health risks were known

Maladoni · 31 Aug 2007, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S

Raise the legal age for smoking by one year every year. In theory you'll have no new smokers leaving those that do to continue or quit. Enforcing it however would be fun.

Appocomaster · 31 Aug 2007, 00:07

In Europe (yesIknowwe'repartofEuropebutIdon'tcare) I think it's still more popular than in the UK - Amsterdam and France, for example.
A lot of people smoke originally because of social pressure and then because of habit / stress.
I hear there's also an advertising campaign planned for the cigarettes showing the lungs of a smoker compared to a healthy person.

...Imagine if they tried banning chocolate?

Allfather · 31 Aug 2007, 00:20

If they ban cigarettes totally though, they should ban sugar and religion, they kill more people.

Tietäjä · 31 Aug 2007, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allfather

If they ban cigarettes totally though, they should ban sugar and religion, they kill more people.

And whatever's the other stuff that causes Americans to become fat.

Irregardless, cigs (and related products) are 18+ in Finland, and yet a quarter - that's 25% - of fifteen to eighteen-year-old girls smoke. For boys, the figure is a little lower. It makes little difference whether they're allowed to buy or not. If they don't get it themselves (ie. a salesperson hapless enough or an old enough appearing kid), they'll just have someone else buy it for them.

All Systems Go · 31 Aug 2007, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

And whatever's the other stuff that causes Americans to become fat.

That's covered under religion i.e. Capitalism

Travler · 31 Aug 2007, 04:20

In America it's next to impossible to find a place where you can still smoke indoors. Even the bars and clubs have gone smoke free. Some areas smoking outdoors is illegal and some states are trying to pass laws to outlaw smoking in your own home and car. It's almost illegal everywhere but just legal enough to keep smokers from waging a war.

Aryn · 31 Aug 2007, 08:55

in canada it's been 18 for years (i don't know if its been lower)
i remember being 18 and buying smokes for a 17 year old friend.. and that was... 5 years ago? i'm sure the youth over there will be able to cope with the change. it's probably a good thing.

Tietäjä · 31 Aug 2007, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

i'm sure the youth over there will be able to cope with the change. it's probably a good thing.

¨
You mean they'll be able to cope with it the same way they're coping with it here and there, ie. getting their friends buy the products for them? Does this make the change useless or good?

Aryn · 31 Aug 2007, 09:38

both.. it'll make it harder for youth to get smokes, but they'll still be able to get them if they really want.
i only bought smokes for my friend that one time and then i refused (i'm a non-smoker).. so she had to find other ways of getting them.
i don't think the change will really effect the current smokers as they would probably have friends of age to buy for them, but i do believe it'll help cut down on the 13/14 year old smokers.

pig · 31 Aug 2007, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

both.. it'll make it harder for youth to get smokes, but they'll still be able to get them if they really want.

I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.

Quote:

i only bought smokes for my friend that one time and then i refused (i'm a non-smoker)..

I don't understand this, you refused why exactly?

Phang · 31 Aug 2007, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.

er

pig · 31 Aug 2007, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

er

Your keyboard must be playing up, you only typed "er", care to add something?

Phang · 31 Aug 2007, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

Your keyboard must be playing up, you only typed "er", care to add something?

does it not strike you that your argument is complete shit without explanation? oh well.

if people have to buy a product on a black market of one form or another, its presumably rather easier to get hold of something widely available legally to your parents, your siblings, your friends, etc etc, than something only available illegally and probably only via two or three people you know, who won't always be able to get hold of anything in the first place.

Etcetera.

Aryn · 31 Aug 2007, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

I don't understand this, you refused why exactly?

because (and all my smoking friends know this) i refuse to support their filthy habits :P

Phang · 1 Sep 2007, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

because (and all my smoking friends know this) i refuse to support their filthy habits :P

i've tried to look for a more diplomatic way of wording this but you are spectacularly judgemental.

Nodrog · 1 Sep 2007, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

i've tried to look for a more diplomatic way of wording this but you are spectacularly judgemental.

I disagree

_Kila_ · 2 Sep 2007, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.

It's far easier to ask some random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer than it is to find someone who is selling ecstasy or cocaine (not paracetamol)

pig · 3 Sep 2007, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Kila_

It's far easier to ask some random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer than it is to find someone who is selling ecstasy or cocaine (not paracetamol)

It probably is, but once you know a drug dealer its far easier to call them up than approach a random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer.

Mzyxptlk · 31 Aug 2007, 11:15

Believes don't cut it, I would like to see some evidence to support your claim.

Mistwraith · 31 Aug 2007, 11:37

how about this insanity --

Age of 16 you can have legal hetro sex.
Age of 17 you will still be able to drive a moped on the road legally.
But very soon, you wont be able to buy a tobacco product !

i love engish laws

Tietäjä · 31 Aug 2007, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistwraith

how about this insanity --

Age of 16 you can have legal hetro sex.
Age of 17 you will still be able to drive a moped on the road legally.
But very soon, you wont be able to buy a tobacco product !

i love engish laws

I don't think it's very uncommon for tobacco products to be at 18+. Imagine alcohol products, which have even stricter limitations often. I can't understand the comparision to intercourse, though.

Mistwraith · 31 Aug 2007, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

I don't think it's very uncommon for tobacco products to be at 18+. Imagine alcohol products, which have even stricter limitations often. I can't understand the comparision to intercourse, though.

well sex can = babies so in theory your allowed to become a parent at 16, but not be old enough to decide wether you want to start smoking or not.

at 17 your concidered old enough to wield a machine on the road which if not properly wielded could take a life, probably yours, but your still not old enough to decide wether you want to smoke or not.

the law will concider you old enough to make that sort of decision over your life, but not concider you old enough to make the tobacco decision over your life..

basically the age laws in the UK make no damned sense.

Mzyxptlk · 31 Aug 2007, 11:39

Hetero? You mean it's illegal for 16 year olds to have gay sex?

Phang · 31 Aug 2007, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Hetero? You mean it's illegal for 16 year olds to have gay sex?

no, thanks to the Parliament Act

furball · 1 Sep 2007, 00:26

The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007

Made 7th March 2007
Coming into force 1st October 2007

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20070767.htm

(great spot by the way)

JonnyBGood · 2 Sep 2007, 17:20

Laws like this always seem rather silly. You should just move the age up for everyone from now. It's arbitrary enough but at least it's vaguely rational.

JonnyBGood · 3 Sep 2007, 00:34

Good thing they're listed in the yellow pages just before Drug Safety Specialist.

Tomkat · 3 Sep 2007, 06:59

They implemented this change in Jersey a couple of years ago. As far as I can see, the number of kids on the streets smoking hasn't gone down at all

It's incredibly easy for kids to still get hold of cigarettes. Go into a pub (hardly anywhere will question you if it's before 9pm) and just use the fag machine.

Nice idea, and I hope it works, but I don't think it'll change the number of young people smoking by much. It'll make the whole thing more rebellious, which might even be a counter-effect.