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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 14:34   #1
MrLobster
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Finance center diminishing returns

A lovely simple formula to get diminishing returns on the next finance center you build, so you can remove the 60 cap limit, but still have the problem resolved about too many FC being used.

( Input * Cap ) / ( Input + Cap )

Input - Total % extra you would get normally, e.g. Input = 40 FC * 0.5% = 20%

Cap - The maximum you want the Input to give diminishing returns.

So a few examples.

Example 1:

20 FC = 10% (current)
50% max (cap)

(10 * 50) / (10 + 50)
(500 / 60)
= 8.3% New Total Bonus

So what was once 20FC giving 10% bonus, now gives 8.3% bonus.

Example 2:

So lets try 60FC

60 FC = 30%
50% max (cap)

(30 * 50) / (30 + 50)
(1500 / 80)
= 18.75% New Total Bonus

So what was once 60FC giving 30% bonus, now gives 15% bonus.

So now every new FC gives less bonus than the previous one.

A quick look at varying amounts of FC's based on the dimi formula

10FC = 4.5% Bonus
20FC = 8.3% Bonus
30FC = 11.5% Bonus
40FC = 14.2% Bonus
50FC = 11.6% Bonus
60FC = 18.7% Bonus
70FC = 20.5% Bonus
80FC = 22.2% Bonus
90FC = 23.6% Bonus
100FC = 25% Bonus

So at 100FC currently you would get 50% bonus, but with dimi you get 25%.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 15:47   #2
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Why?
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 16:24   #3
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

FCs already have a diminishing return, namely the more you build the more expensive they are to pay off. I don't think this actually adds anything, and it makes the marginal utility of building an FC even less then it already is. Plus most grievous of all it violates the KISS rule. So I think the current solution is fine, no need to make things more complicated.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 16:33   #4
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

I only suggested it because I dont like artificial caps on anything.
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 03:16   #5
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
I only suggested it because I dont like artificial caps on anything.
Maybe you should put the effort into trying to get artificial caps on things where they are genuinely silly removed (OMG ALLIANCE LIMIT SHOULD BE 20!!!1ONE)
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 12:54   #6
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

tbh the alliance limits are one place the cap has to be (to my own dispair), without it you will have only at most 3 alliances, and that would be boring for the game.

I think having 30-50 man alliances would be ok.
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 13:46   #7
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Alliances with too many members will just crumble due to lack of organisation, it's pretty simple. Why does there have to be a restriction on how many of my friends I'm allowed to play with?
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 13:56   #8
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Because you will get an infux of all the Good/Active players going to the top alliances, and its happened this round, you only get 3-4 top alliances, the rest are just cattle.
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 18:04   #9
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

We've not had 4 top alliances in a long time. Using this round as evidence of the shortcomings of high tag limits is laughable and I will not dignify it with further response.
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Unread 17 Mar 2009, 20:26   #10
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

When have we ever had more than 4 alliances competing for the win like this since alliances have been hard coded into the game? The best I can think of are rounds like 14 where 1up's opponents all folded in 2 weeks and 16 where, despite the small alliance limits and so many "awesome alliances competing for the win", 1up and ND were the only ones really fighting for it before Ascendancy tagged up.
More alliances just means there are more incompetent people running them and dying (:angels: )
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Unread 18 Mar 2009, 16:03   #11
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Ok enough alliance talk in a non-alliance thread.
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Unread 18 Mar 2009, 20:07   #12
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Exclamation Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
I only suggested it because I dont like artificial caps on anything.
Your new formula still has an artificial cap (called 'Cap' interestingly enough). What's the difference between an artificial cap of, say, 50% bonus and an artificial cap of, say, 60 FC? Why does one need to be eliminated and not the other?
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Unread 21 Mar 2009, 20:06   #13
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus View Post
Your new formula still has an artificial cap (called 'Cap' interestingly enough). What's the difference between an artificial cap of, say, 50% bonus and an artificial cap of, say, 60 FC? Why does one need to be eliminated and not the other?
The cap really isnt a cap, because all you're gettnig is smaller and smaller returns, but I dont think it will ever reach 0 (apart from rounding off some where).
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Unread 21 Mar 2009, 23:18   #14
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Exclamation Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
The cap really isnt a cap, because all you're gettnig is smaller and smaller returns, but I dont think it will ever reach 0 (apart from rounding off some where).
It is a cap, your formula just approaches it asymptotically. The incremental bonus will eventually go to zero (how quickly depends on the precision of your arithmetic).

I don't want to belabor the definition; I was just responding to your stated dislike of 'artificial caps.' It appears that your objection is more with the shape of the curve than with the fact that there's a limit or cap per se (artificial or otherwise). Fair enough, I guess.
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Unread 22 Mar 2009, 05:12   #15
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Re: Finance center diminishing returns

Before u flame Mr Lobster, u should know your role jabroni. Feel blessed that he shares his insights with you all. He is right, you are wrong.
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