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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 15:22   #1
Deffeh
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[Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ls/6329523.stm

This has been simmering for a few years now; and with the appointment of Platini, as well as the appointment of Alex McLeish and the possible departure of David Taylor from the SFA, it seems that it might get a bit more airtime and public discussion.


Personally i would love to see it - it excites me as a possibility, especially given Scotlands terrible recent qualification record for the Euros and WC, it would be nice to be involved in an actual competition once in a while.

The timing issue seems like a nonsensical one to me too - surely im not the only one that thinks a biannual event staged on the odd years is the way to go? Ie in 2009, 2011, 2013 etc when theres no World Cup and no European Championships - it would also go a hell of a way to relieving the boredom of those football-free summers

Re England;

I would like them to play in the championships, but if they are too big for their boots and dont want to, then thats good also. I think a Republic/Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland championship would be well contested, good watching and it would also be _very_ competitive. Of course traditionally the Republic are the best side, but i genuinely believe feasibly any team could beat any other.

Still, whats everyones thoughts on the matter?
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 16:06   #2
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

it won't make the FA enough money so it will never happen.

They are more interested in hosting a world cup than winning one.
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 17:09   #3
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Hence why the 'celtic league' idea has been raised as England's non participation is a probability more than a possibility.

My gut feeling is that if such a contest was set up between Scotland Wales Nire and the Republic, it would be a success, and England would eventually want in
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 17:13   #4
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Boy, that would be some dull football.
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 18:21   #5
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

A celtic league would be dire, international football is bad enough as it is without introducing more meaningless friendlies against terrible teams.

If England were in it then it would be marginally better but I cant imagine theyd take it seriously and would probably put out understrength teams - the Scotland/Ireland vs England rivalries tend to be rather one-sided.

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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 18:25   #6
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

It works with rugby, despite none of the sides being especially good at any one time. To be honest if England were involved it would be great fun, and I think it would add some much needed needle to the competition, because England as the biggest nation would obviously be the ones to beat. It would be better than meaningless friendlies anyway.

I think it would be a great competition to have. You would fancy any of the home nations against England on their own turf and it would be interesting to say the least. Plus the fact that all the teams were playing more competitive football might help them qualify more regular for the world cup and european championships, which lets face it are always better when more home nations qualify.

I'm all for it but it won't make the FA enough money to ever agree to it, as they make money from selling England to TV companies by playing the big teams in world football.
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 20:42   #7
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

I'd like to see it happen - and Deffeh's suggestion of holding it biannually in 'odd' years when international tournaments aren't played is a good one. The Republic of Ireland obviously belong in it, it's not as if there's any point of principle excluding them from it (i.e. no political problems, etc). All top Irish players play in the UK anyway.

lokken's right though - it wouldn't make enough money for the FA, even if a majority of English fans would be in favour of it. On the other hand, a Celtic league would be a success of its own accord.
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 21:45   #8
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
A celtic league would be dire, international football is bad enough as it is without introducing more meaningless friendlies against terrible teams.

If England were in it then it would be marginally better but I cant imagine theyd take it seriously and would probably put out understrength teams - the Scotland/Ireland vs England rivalries tend to be rather one-sided.

i heard we should just cancel the whole thing, merge all sports into one, amalgamate the teams into USA vs the World and watch Shaq and Tiger Woods etc vs Ronaldihno and Roger Federer et al at Sqtenhobabafootrugball
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 14:44   #9
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

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Originally Posted by horn
why would england want to play a load of shit teams simply because said teams hate them?
Well even now I would imagine Man Utd get more joy from beating Man City than say, Reading or Portsmouth - even if the latter two are above Man City in the league.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 16:08   #10
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

I spend enough time crying silently over the dire state of irish football than to be reminded of it even more often.

Especially when we'd just be playing rubbish teams like scotland and england.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 16:36   #11
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
yeah i don't think the england/scotland rivalry is quite as mutual though.

for instance, i don't think man city fans would rather see man utd win the league over a neutral team (supposing the outcome had no affect on their own league position) or visa versa.

while most scots might have a similar take on england (i.e. they'd like to see england beaten by a neutral), most english seem to support scotland against neutrals. the only joy taken from beating scotland is in seeing just how desperate they are to win.
You're making presumptions about both England and Scotland here though.

For me, and for a significant portion of Scotland's population, we spend all year watching the Premiership and the English teams in the champions league (save this year and last when celtic and rangers actually did anything and got past the group stages).

Many of us even adopt an english team. I support liverpool, for example, despite having absolutely zero connection to the city whatsoever (i dont have connections to anywhere in england, i think my bloodline is 100% scottish :|).

Subsequently we have a large knowledge-base of english football and english footballers, and familiarity doesnt always breed contempt.

If you look on these forums; i take a reasonable interest in the English national team. If scotland arent playing; i go out to watch their games. And because of my keen interest in the premiership; i simply cant want them to fail most of the time. Why on earth would i want to see Gerrard or Carragher **** up, for example, when i rate them so highly and like them as players? What sort of an idiot would i want to be not to watch Aaron Lennon play? When England are in the world cup, Scottish football fans discuss the same things english fans do - "i cant believe they took walcott instead of defoe", "why isnt lennon starting", "hargreaves has impressed me considering what a hate figure he was", etc etc etc.

Of course, its not my country; so im not exactly gutted when england inevitably dissappoint. Its not like Scotland were i put aside my dislike for Barry Ferguson, Scott Brown, etc etc when they play for the national team. When its england i still slag off Downing, Lampard, Dyer etc, because i simply dont like them and im not obligated to do so.

Basically to cut a long story short; i actually support England for the most part. Culturally England is closer to Scotland than any other country in the world (outside the other home nations + ireland). I watch so much english football domestically and internationally that it would be a sad existence wishing for every premiership game to be a 0-0, and every england game to result in defeat. The fact remains the World Cup and the Euros would be poorer competitions if England didnt make it there; if English teams didnt do well in European competition thered be less football on TV and probably more unfamiliar names and teams ergo my enjoyment would be severely diminished.

The other side is that i still find it pretty funny when England lose; mainly because the English media is absolutely insufferable. I support England in the World Cup - so long as they dont win it.

To suggest that the rivalry isnt mutual is difficult too; theres definitely an element of 'little brother' syndrome to Scotland/Wales etc, but its reinforced by the English as much as anything.

If you are trying to tarnish me with the 'bitter scot who hates england' brush, you could probably scan the forums and find out that i've been dismissed or called 'scottish' as if its some sort of insult more times than i've said anything nasty or bitter about England.




Coming back to the idea of the league; some of you are arguing the standard of football would be poor; not only do i partly dispute that; but i would also suggest that the competition would improve the standard of football in each country. If you're still going to moan that Wales are no Brazil, then you are in the wrong thread. Any game Wales can organise is still going to involve Wales, they cant set up Brazil vs Argentina by proxy and add it to their national fixture list. Smaller nations and smaller teams still have to do something; something is by definition better than nothing; and the idea that youd rather have Rugby league or some shit be the Sporting highlight of the Summer just because a Celtic League (just 3 matches per team, a total of ****ing 6 matches!) wouldnt be as high quality as some sort of utopian invitational with all star XI's playing against each other or something is just ridiculous and petty. If you dont like Scottish or Irish or Welsh football, then you dont like your national team at football full stop and should probably stop pretending to have an objective opinion on the way forward for the Home nations.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 17:34   #12
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

I don't think you understand deffeh. It's not that I hate irish football or something, it's just that we're so poor these days that we'd probably get beaten by northern ireland and I really don't think I could take that without snapping completely and going on some sort of killing spree.


If you want to improve the standard of football invest money in youth academies or ban computer games for under fifteen year olds or something.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 17:56   #13
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't think you understand deffeh. It's not that I hate irish football or something, it's just that we're so poor these days that we'd probably get beaten by northern ireland and I really don't think I could take that without snapping completely and going on some sort of killing spree.


If you want to improve the standard of football invest money in youth academies or ban computer games for under fifteen year olds or something.

Should the 6 nations just be the 4 nations this year because Scotland and Italy are so shit?


Also the best thing that could happen for Scottish grass roots football is for the government to make sure there are glass-free football pitches available. You cant play in parks now, people just smash bottles of beer against the goalposts which makes it unplayable unless you want a spate of injured young goalkeepers.


The second thing they could do is try and force companies to stop charging so much to use facilities. £50 for one hour of 5 a sides is absolutely ludicrous
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 18:00   #14
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

ive always thought there should be more of a tie-in between domestic leagues and national teams (like with homegrown players in Europe), so youd have to have six squad members out of 22 who presently ply their trade in the domestic league or suchlike.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 18:03   #15
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

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Originally Posted by Deffeh
Should the 6 nations just be the 4 nations this year because Scotland and Italy are so shit?


Also the best thing that could happen for Scottish grass roots football is for the government to make sure there are glass-free football pitches available. You cant play in parks now, people just smash bottles of beer against the goalposts which makes it unplayable unless you want a spate of injured young goalkeepers.


The second thing they could do is try and force companies to stop charging so much to use facilities. £50 for one hour of 5 a sides is absolutely ludicrous
No, they're in it so if ireland fail to win it again I can be reminded that it could be much, much worse. That said no doubt we'll pull off a loss against Italy on the final day and lose the championship to france on points difference or something equally daft and ironic.


Colleges are decent over here for football but it's obviously fairly structured so you can't just turn up when you feel like it to play.
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Unread 5 Feb 2007, 18:06   #16
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Re: [Football] The Home Nations issue rears its head again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
ive always thought there should be more of a tie-in between domestic leagues and national teams (like with homegrown players in Europe), so youd have to have six squad members out of 22 who presently ply their trade in the domestic league or suchlike.
This would probably either end up being unfair or meaningless.
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