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27 Oct 2008, 09:53
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#201
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
Xans going FI, they need revs and they need spectre... now you're saying they'll have to build wraith too. That's Xan's weakness this round, they can't concentrate on a few ships.
A Ter building Wyvern-Dragon-Harpy will be able to build more of each and be stronger vs a Xan who has to spread its res over more ships types and classes.
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xans only absolutely need the phant-banshee-spec mix; clearly the rev clears up what would otherwise be a de hole - but the wyv-drag-harpy will also have problems with things they 2nd target. i see no need for the wraith at all.
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27 Oct 2008, 20:59
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#202
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
I guess its a healthy sign that its quite hard to pick which fleet combos are the way to go for each race.
I predict that Xan Fi, Ter DE, Etd FR, Zik CR and cat CR will be the most popular for each race tho.
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28 Oct 2008, 00:28
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#203
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
xans only absolutely need the phant-banshee-spec mix; clearly the rev clears up what would otherwise be a de hole - but the wyv-drag-harpy will also have problems with things they 2nd target. i see no need for the wraith at all.
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Xands can get away with 3 ships (phant/rev/spec) or 4 ships (phant/bansh/rev/spec, bansh/rev/wraith/spec or bansh/FR/spec)
Wraith could be useful if there are lots of harpy around, since they're better than phants at busting them. They're also reasonably useful at helping you out in anti CO - since they're beetle t2 and they draw fire away from the revenant.
here's where you build phant, here's where you build wraith. In cases where you're almost all stunned, wraith/rev is actually better anti CO than phantom is.
I've not decided whether the loss of strength vs the stealers and etd FR makes the revenant a more sensible choice though!
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28 Oct 2008, 00:29
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#204
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
I predict that Xan Fi, Ter DE, Etd FR, Zik CR and cat CR will be the most popular for each race tho.
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I'd take a stab at terran BS becoming more popular by the end of the round because there should be lots of big xands, and terrans will love raping them.
Looking forwards to seeing how it works out!
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28 Oct 2008, 01:02
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#205
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r29 shipstats
I'd probably say xan is the best race now. Especially after appoco's utterly ****tarded change in the cutter's targetting. Because christ knows what we needed to do was change both the mantis and the cutter so that they target co first and improve xan defensively.
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28 Oct 2008, 07:18
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#206
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: r29 shipstats
so now the only way to stop xan fi is to hope you get a cathaar in galaxy with a load of mantis (and still shoot t2)? wtf? harpy is the only thing that seems to have the advantage against them now (non-emp) and wraiths will keep that from being an option - not to mention that phant shoot first @ t2.
on another note, is t3 emp even worth having? i'm sure it matters, but anyone know if they're gonna even be worth building? (scarab / widow)
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28 Oct 2008, 08:25
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#207
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I'd take a stab at terran BS becoming more popular by the end of the round because there should be lots of big xands, and terrans will love raping them.
Looking forwards to seeing how it works out!
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I just think that Terrans focusing on BS will get roided silly by fi\co fleets.
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28 Oct 2008, 08:27
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#208
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'd probably say xan is the best race now. Especially after appoco's utterly ****tarded change in the cutter's targetting. Because christ knows what we needed to do was change both the mantis and the cutter so that they target co first and improve xan defensively.
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So you think that Xan FI is the way to go rather than Xan FR?
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28 Oct 2008, 18:52
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#209
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r29 shipstats
It's marginal enough now. You only really get the full benefits of the cutter change if you actually build co. There aren't that many etds in the universe either and most of those will probably go more fr/de so I'd lean towards fi/co/de now.
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29 Oct 2008, 09:22
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#210
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
I still feel Mantis will be such a hassle late round that Im willing to stand by that FI<FR.
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1 Nov 2008, 17:42
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#211
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
The statsmakers seem to have done a great job in the eyes of the general player; we have a great race mix (25:20:20:22:13 atm).
Tbh I think caths look pretty weak. I expect to see them having a tough time for most of the round - CR caths will have serious problems with spectres and they're terrible at stopping FR or DE.
I'm expecting zik & xan to do the best. I think I prefer terran to etd but it looks like etds are more active from early sandmans figures so etds might do better.
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2 Nov 2008, 02:24
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#212
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: r29 shipstats
Yeah each race has its weakness. Zik and Etd are better imho coz they're the only races able to correct their weakness with proper stealing.
The temptation of ship farming may prove too strong for some, I hope it will be seriously checked... though I think each player will have the benefit of the doubt for his first suspicious steal (meaning they're all allowed to cheat one time)
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2 Nov 2008, 12:27
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#213
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
Yeah each race has its weakness. Zik and Etd are better imho coz they're the only races able to correct their weakness with proper stealing.
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I'm not convinced that etd's stealing will be that great for most of them. Stealing cath CO doesn't help much (the broad is better anti DE than the vip and they already have a FI/CO stunner), & the thief is owned by xand FI.
A few lucky etds will do great with a nice phant/bans/wraith steal but I don't expect it to be all that common.
The broadsword looks ace though; both FR and BS etds should be packing it IMO.
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9 Nov 2008, 12:27
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#214
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: r29 shipstats
for etds i reckon the broadsword is a must have ship
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12 Nov 2008, 14:12
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#215
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
Predictions? I'm sticking with zik best, cath worst for now.
EMP tends to do better early, then trail off. Big EMP planets tend to survive until they're raped, then fall off quickly in value/roids. Cath aren't doing so great in value atm, so they should fall off much quicker than etd. I expect etd will decline, but much slower than caths will thanks to their good cloakers - it all depends on what people build.
I'm guessing zik for best, etd/xan next, then cath. Ter may end up with more t100s than caths though.
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12 Nov 2008, 14:55
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#216
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: r29 shipstats
xan and ter feed from each other, either they both do good or they both do bad
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12 Nov 2008, 20:49
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#217
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
Ter DE planets are doing pretty well, theyre hard as **** to hit.
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12 Nov 2008, 21:29
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#218
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Ter DE planets are doing pretty well, theyre hard as **** to hit.
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Looks like combos are absolutely needed to hit the biggest terrans.
Etd/xand FR or etd/ter CR/BS perhaps.
I hope terrans do well, it's been a while since they've really been taken seriously compared to zik/xan.
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22 Nov 2008, 17:51
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#219
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
"Mistakes" I'm seeing in some ships build patterns:
1) Xans are under-rating The effectiveness of Wraiths. Centering their attack fleets around Phantom/Banshee only is making defense against them uber easy.
2) Ziks are trying too hard to make CR their prime roiding fleet. Zik CR alone are "hopeless" in attack, as every race has a solid "stopper ship" Zik CR annot touch. Zik CR needs to either team up, or be reserved for ally defense.
3) ETD are under-rating Broadswords, and the ability of Scorps/Pillagers to increase the effectiveness of ally BS/CR team ups. A SMALL Broad/Scorp/Pill team fleet for use with Zik/Cat/Ter allies is a difficult thing to stop.
4) Terrans need only Harpy/BS to be all good. Once they grow to the size needed to protect vs XP lands, adding only Gryphons rounds them out nicely. Building anything else is a waste.
5) Cathaar aren't active enough, and do not build pro-actively enough to face changing universe conditions. This round a well played Cathaar can seriously do well, but too few Cathaars are played well enough, or actively enough, to maintain their early advantages.
Round win Prediction:
ETD/Terran...Terran slightly more likely, as ETD suffers "emp fade".
(ETD would NOT get my vote, except for the fact many top players have taken them)
Top 10 Race Make-up:
Terran = 3
ETD = 3
Xan = 2
Cat = 1
Zik = 1
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22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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#220
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
U seem to imply that my 100% terr de is a mistake, and yet Im finding that for all their statistical weaknesses; weak vs Cr, roidable by etd with many ghosts who fire first, or by terr bs whose wyvs fire first, or by xan of either type also fires before me. Im simply not finding it a problem because I have so many De that I always have more to fire back, combined with the terr salvage bonus it means I can tolerate a significant early loss in order to fire back later!
other ppl clearly realise this because Im the least attacked person in my gal.
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Nov 2008, 18:49
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#221
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Poblacht na hÉireann
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memtok
1) Xans are under-rating The effectiveness of Wraiths. Centering their attack fleets around Phantom/Banshee only is making defense against them uber easy.
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Wraith aren't at all useful compared to a good ship like the Revenant. And I don't understand at all why you would think that having more anti Fi by adding an extra class makes a fleet less defensible, the opposite is true?
Quote:
4) Terrans need only Harpy/BS to be all good. Once they grow to the size needed to protect vs XP lands, adding only Gryphons rounds them out nicely. Building anything else is a waste.
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Absolute rubbish man. A decent xan fleet would tear such a planet up. Pure DE is definitely that way for Terran to go this round. Perhaps DE + a Wyvern roiding fleet but I don't see why you'd even bother with that.
Quote:
5) Cathaar aren't active enough, and do not build pro-actively enough to face changing universe conditions. This round a well played Cathaar can seriously do well, but too few Cathaars are played well enough, or actively enough, to maintain their early advantages.
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No, Cathaar are just really shit this round. Being more active doesn't make terrible ships better.
Pretty much the only mistake here would be made by anyone listening to you I'm afraid.
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22 Nov 2008, 19:04
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#222
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
I absolutely agree with Achi's comment on the wraith; the one time I have felt compelled to run my Terr De was when facing an idiot who had a fleet of Wraith/Rev/illu with very few banshees and phants; I didnt loose roids ofc because an etd in my gal despatched a tiny force of recluse to me and froze all the fi leaving the co useless
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Nov 2008, 20:57
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#223
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
Achilles:
You are a nit wit.
I'm not advocating a Xan center his attack fleet around CO; that leaves his pods too vulnerable (see Londo's comment). But if a Xan fleet which would otherwise be 200k phantoms/200k banshee sent 150k phantom/banshee plus 35k rev/wraith, it would be MUCH harder to defend in ally.
That COMBINED fi/co attack does not suffer unduely to cross-class attack penalties, as any def in ally eta's would be MORE vulnerable to the combined strength of the fi/co send. An alliance cannot defend just the CO component on ally eta, so there is no "extra" risk from sending 2 classes.
The biggest effect a Wraith addition gives is: it adds too many assured losses to allow a Zik Corsair fleet to flak for home fleet harpys. With Phantoms weakly targetting fi on t2, the Corsair losses are acceptable if they allow enough Harpys to survive and target the Xan fi on t1. Wraiths give a t1 anti fi ship in the attack, thus losses cannot be off-set enough by salvage to make a Corsair flak send worthwhile. DUH!
As for your additional stupid comment about a "decent" Xan planet "tearing up" a Terran with just Harpy/BS, you MUST be an idiot. How do Pegasus help a Terran? NO in ally ships can be sent to "assist" Pegasus against FI/CO, so sufficient Revs in a Xan kill the Pegs dead, and nothing in ally can help them survive. At least with Harpys, you can add more FI to the home defense fleet, ANY fi type, and increase the number of Harpys surviving. Pegs MAY get lucky, and have in gal ships to help them, but if your whole gal is being hit I can't see them sending flak to let your Pegs survive to shoot.
As for your NEXT stupid comment: "Pure DE is the way to go", what????
You are going to rely on Drakes with init 7 to provide front line damage to Xan/ETD FR? Or Gryphs with init 6 to hold off Wyverns? About the only "positive" thing of an all Terran DE fleet (from the self-defense stand point) is that it provides a LOT of flak for other, more effective, alliance DE/FR types to protect you.
About the only viability I can see in a Terran DE attack fleet is that you can pretty effectively xp wh*re with it...that's about all.
As for your FINAL stupid remark, that Cathaar is just a "bad" race this round...you clearly don't get it. EMP is a BAD race EVERY ROUND. Unless it is so over-powered as to be ridiculous, Cathaar has a lot of inherent drawbacks.
The strength of Cathaar this round is well balanced with the strengths of the other races. If any race is "underpowered" this round, it is Zik from having only 1 race it can really target on solo attacks without capped ships, plus another it MIGHT be able to roid if they fail to build certain ships. A Cathaar COULD win this round, but it is unlikely as no one (or very few) who plays Cathaar really has a clue how to play it.
I'm not going to go back and forth on this...
You think I'm wrong, I know you ARE wrong. It is as simple as that.
We will let the final ranks decide, when we can see the ships help by the top planets, and see which build patterns were "right".
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22 Nov 2008, 21:01
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#224
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r29 shipstats
Hahaha, you really dont have a clue do you?
I just had to get that in before soveh coms with his "strategy is a place where people are nice to eachother post"
Thank you for a hilariously amusing post, if only it was ment as that
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22 Nov 2008, 21:30
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#225
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: r29 shipstats
Re to Memtok (cant be bothered to quote individual bits of your post)
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game59787c0
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game80440c2
both have almost the same value, which would you rather be the terran in?
while you will say that then you cant get alliance defence or flack, well:
1, except in very active alliances dcs tend not to know what is home anyway,
2, you can generally get in gal anti fi defence because it is not out doing alliance defence when you are galraided,
3, with the terran de fleet you have your own gryphons and drakes to flack for you whereas I have hardly seen a phoenix in the whole round! this applies in exactly the same way with drakes against etd/xan fr incs and gryphons against ter bs incs, it will be rare that an attacker is able to wipe out the whole of the defenders fleet to prevent them firing back. This is because everyone's fleet needs to fire at all classes of ship in the game to be defensively solid, so cant be concentrated on firing at just the concentrated terran de ships, making terran de a defensive fortress.
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Last edited by booji; 22 Nov 2008 at 21:38.
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22 Nov 2008, 21:33
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#226
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 42
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Re: r29 shipstats
memtok cat is not a bad race u freak, the only correct thing u said about that matter, is that people aint good enough at playing them. The freeze element is basically such a big advantage in both defense and attacking that im always wondering why there isnt more people choosing them... YES you get more incs as a cat because all the noobs out there goes: "oh they cant kill me, lets gogogo", but for people taking the game serious, and counting on a bit of help from ally/galmates through the round, it is so much more efficient than other races. but sure if you cant take the heat, dont play cat.
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23 Nov 2008, 03:43
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#227
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
Booji:
regarding these links-
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game59787c0
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game80440c2
My answer is that I am not staying to defend as the Terran with EITHER loss. It is too easy to get my roids back. I need help no matter what. But how MUCH help do I need, what kinds of help do I need, and how available will that help be...THAT is the question.
What I would point out is:
Your alliance cannot send you anything to help your Pegasus. Your pegasus do nothing to help your alliance.
If you are relying on 34k pegs for anti fi/co defense, either your planet will get incoming configured to ATTACK those 34k pegs (more revenants in Xan fleets, or viper team ups)...or your roid count/score won't be worth mustering that much strength against it.
To be quite honest, your links are a little bit meaningless. That particular Xan isn't going to attack EITHER of those Terran home fleets alone.
A relatively small Viper fleet of 55k, totally negates your pegasus "defense". Plus, that Viper send, and its effects on your Pegasus, cannot be overcome by alliance defense. Any resources you have spent on those DE will be effectively taken out of the battle, as the original attack will account for them.
If you have the harpy though, your alliance can send FI flak to make a Xan think twice and/or to flood the Beetle emp sent along with the Vipers. Also, a Cutlass/Corsair send will threaten the CO in the Cathaar fleet provided even a smallish Beetle def fleet is sent to assist against the phantoms.
The operative idea behind my points is that your ally defense can HELP your harpys to work in your overall defense, while ally defense cannot help your pegasus to work, see?
See these links:
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game26236c0
In that link I added all the same ships to a defense fleet for that Terran who built the Pegasus, as to the one who built 150k Harpy in your example. In terms of "realistic" defense capabilities, your pegs are a worthless waste of resources.
If you find the SAME defense send, and put it over the top of 150k home fleet harpys instead of 34k home fleet pegasus, you get this:
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game93050c0
I think that calc tends to show the relative worthlessness of Pegs, at least from the stand point of getting alliance defense.
note: the calcs show my ideas of a Xan fi/co send, instead of the more typical Xan fi only send. Without the Xan CO, the results are much worse for the incoming:
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game41388c0
http://bcalc.roid.me.uk/index.php?loadfile=game67734c0
Without the CO from the Xan, the losses are a LOT higher for the incoming, or the defense can be much smaller. The Value of the 2 defenses are essentially the same, but the loss is significantly greater to the incoming with the Harpy defense.
I will grant I did not credit you with having OTHER DE home to help make it harder for Vipers to freeze you out. The truth of that self-proived flak is that again, either your planet will be worth sending enough Vipers/Revanants against to account for ALL your DE, or you are unlikely to see fi/co incoming with either 150k harpys or with 34k pegs. Self-provided flak like that works a lot better for Zik Cutters vs. FI/CO, as nothing the Xan can send will prevent Cutters from shooting, and a Cathaar teammate must freeze all the Zik DE before it freezes Cutters. Relying on self-provided flak for Pegs to work will just result in larger, and harder to cover incomings.
Buy Harpys instead.
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23 Nov 2008, 05:04
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#228
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Poblacht na hÉireann
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memtok
We will let the final ranks decide, when we can see the ships help by the top planets, and see which build patterns were "right".
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Well I'm playing for a T10 planet right now as Xan. I also finished as the top Xan planet in the last iteration of these stats. To make this point on the only quantifiable level available, this is me:
[04:01] -Munin- 1:10:7 (Xan) 'A TRAGIC STATE' of 'DENIAL' Score: 2035362 (20) Value: 1403442 (44) Size: 1374 (23) XP: 10532 (102)
For a nitwit I think I'm doing ok. How's your planet faring?
Last edited by Achilles; 23 Nov 2008 at 06:09.
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23 Nov 2008, 09:48
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#229
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Well I'm playing for a T10 planet right now as Xan. I also finished as the top Xan planet in the last iteration of these stats. To make this point on the only quantifiable level available, this is me:
[04:01] -Munin- 1:10:7 (Xan) 'A TRAGIC STATE' of 'DENIAL' Score: 2035362 (20) Value: 1403442 (44) Size: 1374 (23) XP: 10532 (102)
For a nitwit I think I'm doing ok. How's your planet faring?
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I'd say you are a nitwit who would be doing better if you used CO in your attack, if you arent using them already.
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23 Nov 2008, 10:09
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#230
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
I tried to tell U in my earlier post that as 100% De I wont need the defence because attackers pick me less so even if I need more defence on those occasions I am picked all in all my cost no my alliance is the same.
PS. I have neither had nor needed a single alliance defence fleet yet this round; terr De has an unquantifiable deterrence value, boojis calcs were not meaningless the pegs had more deterrent value by killing more.
As an alliance DC i know full well the problems of being the wrong class for your defence but i dont deny etds anti-fi/co def cos they dont have mass thiefs. I very rarely have the luxury of calcing with full knowledge of the defenders fleet anyway so it would make no difference.
As to the other De having to be frozen so incs are bigger: im sorry it dosent happen cos your roids are the same no matter how big the team up so ppl will not take a target where they have to team but without the benefits of hitting a significantly larger person for xp.
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23 Nov 2008, 11:38
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#231
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: r29 shipstats
memtok you are thinking about this too much from the perspective of alliances, there are many ppl who rely on ingal defence for which your views on harpys have no relevence... I had already delt with precicely the objection you brought up. A player cant go basing his fleet around what his alliance 'might' send him, as the chances are that some of the time the alliance would fail, I would much rather have the chance of fighting on my own than always having to rely on my alliance to dig me out, we are not all defleaches!!
and btw in my peg calc I would stand, the terran salvage bonus means that the defender would barely lose overall.
my links were just trying to show in a simplistic way that the peg is probably a better ship, I will admit that my calc was unrealistic and should have have scaled the fleets up into the harpy one having two thirds of his fleet in wyverns/dragons and the peg one having two thirds in gryphons and drakes... but that would have made it much better for the peg in the calc! - indeed when this is done add in your 55k vipers into the attacker on the pegs and it still comes out better than the harpys vs the xan
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Last edited by booji; 23 Nov 2008 at 11:48.
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23 Nov 2008, 11:43
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#232
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 460
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memtok
5) Cathaar aren't active enough, and do not build pro-actively enough to face changing universe conditions. This round a well played Cathaar can seriously do well, but too few Cathaars are played well enough, or actively enough, to maintain their early advantages.
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So how would u build a Cath fleet then?
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23 Nov 2008, 11:54
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#233
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memtok
Your alliance cannot send you anything to help your Pegasus. Your pegasus do nothing to help your alliance.
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Since Ur so focused on ally def think about this: Your alliance cannot send you anything to help your Wyvern. Your Wyvern does nothing to help your alliance.
Granted few terr bs are hit by fr/de but I know etds who use their wids for it.
Worse your dragon only helps with 1 tick of in ally def vs Bs/Cr where my gryph does 2 and all the anti-Cr/Bs type Cruisers and battleships are attack fleet ships so most alliance defence of anti-bs/cr is De type which fits with my gryph not ur dragon.
Not everything is about xan fighters..... tbh alliances struggle against fi/co so u will be more likely to no defence to help you there.
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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23 Nov 2008, 12:11
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#234
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Poblacht na hÉireann
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memtok
I'd say you are a nitwit who would be doing better if you used CO in your attack, if you arent using them already.
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I have 200k Revenant, 0 Wraith and, honestly, if you knew even half of what you think you do about this game you'd understand why. But if you won't put your money where your mouth is and paste your planet details there isn't really a whole lot of point in continuing this discussion.
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23 Nov 2008, 13:13
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#235
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zawze^asc
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norway.
Posts: 87
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Re: r29 shipstats
I havn't used any Co in any of my attacks and I've captured around 2600 roids this round so far. I havn't experienced that it's über easy to defend against Xan Fi.
Also, I think that the best fleet composition varies in regards to bp, galaxy, and perhaps even alliance. In my opinion it'd be better, and more interesting, to have the top N players paste their fleets and give a comment on why they built what they built rather than just scanning them.
I'm a 1mill value Xan player btw.
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"Facts are just opinions, and opinons can be wrong, the only thing that's never wrong is confidence."
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27 Nov 2008, 22:58
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#236
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: r29 shipstats
The biggest problem I have, TE isnt a good race to defend other poeple. Nine times out of 10 (even more so in fact) i cant help anyone with defence.
The init on all TE ships are not below anything they target, and then they get targetted by the ships they are trying to defend against.
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28 Nov 2008, 00:12
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#237
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
thats not entirely true: for my De fleet, my peg is useless but my gryphs fire simultaneously with the very rare etd bs/cr, they fire before the zik maru and anything goes if flacking against cat cr, so only terr bs is a trouble to defend against.
The Drake as a defence ship is the real problem, as I DC i can choose where I put em and so zik de gets it often as not. It is the only safe defence for em, tho they also get sent against other drakes. They are totally worthless against either fr except in large numbers - which I never get.
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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28 Nov 2008, 00:19
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#238
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: r29 shipstats
besides you choose to go all ter de so that you dont get attacked... not so that you can do anything with the ships! as in defence you rely on numbers and having the rest of your fleet as flack and in attack unfortunatly you have to rely on bashing except against ziks with de fleets or cathaar.
ter bs you go for for the wyvern and its ability to hit xans and xp rather than their ability in defence.
however this does seem to be quite unusual, most rounds terrans have some very good defence ships
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4 Dec 2008, 22:11
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#239
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
Booji:
I can't totally say you are "wrong" re the power of Ter de working together, and being the sole basis of a fleet. It IS a very difficult thing to get through, especially if you roid count does not warrant a massive team up.
I will fully admit I am basing my views on "ally think". but to this point that ally thinking has worked very, very well. but the reaosn it is working well for us is that we are fortunate enough to have a lot of people who have bought into the idea...without a large pool of people getting "on board", an all DE Ter is probably the way to go for a solo/small ally player.
I just know that the huge harpy numbers, with a decent amount of phoenix behind them, have served our ally quite well in def- even versus monster inc. For instance- last night we covered a 900k Zik/ETD DE/FR wave with Fi (and a small amount of clippers ~95k), by busting thru the freeze from 223k recluse/228k widow. That Ter had no hopes of his Wyvern (68k) and Dragons (34k) being of much use. But his 650k fi allowed us to flood over the freeze with cors to the point that had the inc landed, they would have lost about 50% of their widows, and loads of others- DESPITE 95k cutters sent by the Zik! the kicker was- that Ter target had to recall only 1 attack and still landed his other strike...
But again, that Def was totally dependant upon excessive team work, and the integration of FI into our overall def plans.
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4 Dec 2008, 22:44
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#240
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r29 shipstats
perhaps ur ally has enough fi to spare to outflack etds and not hamper other defences; mine does not, its so much easier to attack etds from the middle, ghost fakes ftw!
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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5 Dec 2008, 07:06
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#241
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
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Re: r29 shipstats
We hold approx 30% of the Harpys, 22% of the Phoe, and about 20% of the Corsairs in the universe, as of pt 803.
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You may call me Master
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5 Dec 2008, 08:13
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#242
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r29 shipstats
I d like to see an ally with pure ETD with these stats.
should work quite well
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[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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5 Dec 2008, 09:40
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#243
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I d like to see an ally with pure ETD with these stats.
should work quite well
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Apart from being ass-raped by fi/co every day for the entire round...
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5 Dec 2008, 10:39
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#244
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Apart from being ass-raped by fi/co every day for the entire round...
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that can easily be avoided by capping corsairs with your thiefs and then capping buccs with your cors and then cap some nice mantis
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5 Dec 2008, 10:44
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#245
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: r29 shipstats
many xans and cats seem to be willing to run the mantis gauntlet, easier to steal cutters or spirits I would think.
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Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
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5 Dec 2008, 11:03
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#246
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
An all FR/DE ally sounds interesting to me. It would have to rely on ingal def for anti FI/CO though...
What sort of fleets has each ally gone for?
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5 Dec 2008, 12:55
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#247
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r29 shipstats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Apart from being ass-raped by fi/co every day for the entire round...
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The combination of recluse / thief could do the trick.
All grow big from start on, huge value, good centered gals, ingal cross def recluse and thiefs from ally.
doable
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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9 Dec 2008, 01:49
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#248
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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Re: r29 shipstats
i can suck with any race so stats doesnt matter to me really
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14 Dec 2008, 04:08
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#249
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: r29 shipstats
So any news on new stats for r30? Not long now till the end of the round.
i'm expecting at least a change to the TE DE, at the minute its great as a deterent for wanabee attackers, but defence wise its lacking. I would like a slight tweak to inits at least to get them firing earlier.
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"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
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<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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14 Dec 2008, 10:36
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#250
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r29 shipstats
From the sandmans stats it looks like cath are indeed underpowered. Do people agree that a load of targeting change on the anti FR/DE ships and changing E/Rs of vessels would improve things?
Seems more actives went etd than terran and they've surprised me with how successful they've been.
I'm guessing BS terrans struggled with the large # of FI and high ratio of defence. With caths being so weak and etds so few (and going mainly for FR?) there wouldn't be that many BS... but plenty of spectres+others around to defend against you. This lack of major terrans combined with the cutter targeting change probably contributed to xands' excellent performance.
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