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Unread 10 May 2013, 18:27   #1
Influence
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R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

After a lot of rubbish on AD this round i decided to reinstate an old TGV tradition... A round summary through the eyes of an HC. Please keep in mind this is a personal account and does not necessarily have to be 100% correct (hey i spent most of this round being either drunk or in the company of a wonderful woman, well that wasnt exactly most of the round, but you get the point). Any opinion expressed are personal opinions and do not have to be shared by any of the other HC or member of TGV. Normally i'd spend a while at the end to thank everyone but i have allready done so in my retirement post so won't do that. GL everyone on the rest of PA.

PreRound - Recruitment
After having a fairly succesful r49 and r50 we decided to step up to the plate and have our shot at winning r51. After the demise of Ultores we took in a fair group of Ultores with some sort of TGV history and some good members from other alliances (mainly FAnG). After cutting some excess members from prior rounds we had a group of roughly 55 members together. We found an additional HC in Baddars, ensuring that both rexdrax and me (especially me) could take a less active roll in our command, and focus a bit more on our RL that we had been ignoring for 2 rounds.

We had intel the brasillian BG would return to FAnG and that there were 2 new alliances entering R51. In our views this would make us one of 3 contenders to the round, along with FAnG and Megalomania (who we thought would recruit the other new alliance (Coolkats group) and the remains of Ultores. Apprime was looking at 35-40 members in our estimates.

PreRound - Fleetstrategy and Galsetup
After doing a lot of testing and discussing we were torn between 3 fleet strategies.
Full CO - Offensive strategy that would give issues defensively due to not being able to fake defense ships, which would mean we'd need to ground for even the smallest amount of concentrated incs.
Full FR - Defensive strategy, good for forts but with very limited attacking options past PT400.
Mix of CR/BS - Possibly the best offensive strategy, but with a fairly distributed set of defence ships.

After a members vote CR/BS turned out to be a slight favorite. so we went with that. One issue with this strategy was that some races had fairly big holes so we would need a partner in our galaxies to make sure these holes could be filled ingal. At this point a lot of our members had allready setup their own galaxies so we were left with a fairly small group of galaxies we could provide this setup for. In the end i think we setup 4 shared BP's with Apprime. We had 3 forts and ~25 randoms.

(for reference, FAnG had no fort BP's at all, ND and CT both had 1)

PreRound - Politics
Due to sharing some BP's with Apprime we decided to setup an avoidance for forts and our shared BP's. No time limit had been set on this deal. We had briefly discussed what we would do when either App or TGV was ptargetted by multiple alliances. It was decided that we would respond in kind on the alliances it involved, to discourage continuation of the targetting.

Due to having prior relations with an ODDR HC we agreed on an avoidance with them.

At this point we considered FAnG and Megalomania to be our main competitors and both to be hostile to us from the start, with CT, ND and App being dangerous outsiders to the win

We considered CT, ND, HR, Astraeus, Rock and Innuendo to be neutral, where ND, ROCK and Innuendo were our main concerns as they had shown to have grudges against us before. We finished off r50 being friendly with CT and Astraeus and hoped to build on this. TGV HC's decided that if CT, Astraeus or HR would get ptargetted by multiple alliances, we would respond much in the same way as if it happened to Apprime. This was not communicated with anyone outside of TGV tho.

PreRound - Last Minute Membershuffle
The remains of Ultores, and Coolkats group, found a home in FAnG, where we expected them to go to Megalomania. This meant the brasillian BG was being kicked from FAnG and found a new home in Apprime. Along that App had some very good members that showed up at the last moment. Megalomania went inactive and gave us some additional members. We also had some late returning ppl and decided to pardon a couple of members that had originally been kicked. This pushed our membercount up to 63 out of which 6 were starting late due to RL commitments, and 3-5 were playing the exiling game.

Early round (PT0 - PT400) - Galraiding
Our first week our attacks seemed to be invincible and we landed practically all attacks. This was an unexpected start, as we are custom to having rather slow starts and then steamrolling from midround onward. Our succesful attacks also meant that we had more incs than 'usual'. We struggled a fair bit getting our defence fleets up and running. This was obviously masked by our excellent attacks. It helped that we had a number of members that were dedicated to defence.

Early Round (PT0-PT400) - Politics
We selected our targets mostly based on who hit us and who hit our forts. This meant we had quite a bit of fleets flying both to and from ND, and CT. Surprisingly we barely saw any FAnG incs at this point, and had a lot of HR incs. ODDR ran into some issues with ND and requested a full avoidance with them to which we agreed.

We were regularly approached by FAnG if we could be lenient on them as they were having internal issues. We limited the amount of incs we put on FAnG, also due to the low number of incs we had recieved from them at the time.

We were forced to ground one night when all 3 of our forts were under attack by FAnG, ND, HR, CT and Astraeus. A night later ND decided to come visit 2 of our forts again and we decided to return the favor on 2 ND galaxies with more waves on the ND. Before we launched we were approached by ND if we could avoid them for a bit. Initially the HC approached said ok.

This coincided with the night ND and FAnG ptargetted Apprime together. Witnessing this we approached Apprime and asked if we could help them. At this point it was decided we would go after ND first, despite of our 'agreement' in regards to avoiding them.

Due to the high number of CT incs we recieved we attempted to get some sort of agreement with them. CT initially refused for a while but around PT300 we agreed to a limited targetting agreement where we could hit 3 targets on a maximum of 3 waves. Effectively limitting the random incs we got from CT to a maximum of 9 total waves a day.

Early Round (PT0-PT400) - Internal Affairs
This was a very stressful time for TGV's HC's. Even tho our defence was improving and the outline of our round became clearer and clearer we ended up in endless discussions with a fair number of members. A lot of members emo'd at the HC and eachother over fairly small issues and literally every decision that was made by the HC's was contested and grinded down to the bone. My most used sentence at this time was 'the emo is strong in this one'.

Mid Round (PT400-PT700) - First Incs
During this time FAnG and ND shifted their focus towards TGV. Along with random alliance galraids the amount of incs averaged out around 120-140 fleets on heavy nights and 50-60 fleets on the easy nights. Regardless of these incs we managed to keep attacking (some nights even with 2 fleets). Due to the latestarters entering our tag and spending their hidden stashes, we managed to keep a positive roid growth, and even a score growth compared to Apprime.
Incs during this period came from ND, FAnG (mostly), and random incs from HR, Astraeus, MegaROCK and Innuendo and a number of waves from CT. Generally speaking it was only incs from CT landing. This period ensured we boosted through our stockpiles.

Mid Round (PT400-PT700) - Politics
To get some relieve from these incs and make sure our members were able to get some more attacks out we approached several of the galraiding alliances to steer clear of us a bit. We succesfully persuaded HR and Astraeus to keep their distance for a bit. We also had an 'agreement' with the Norsemen BG were they wouldnt hit TGV targets on the MegaROCK attacks.

During this time we accepted the ingame agreement with Apprime and managed to get some out of tag def flying. This helped both us and App in this period. This is also the time of the B-Bitcher incident, which truely was the biggest moment of disbelief i have ever had in this game.

Late Round (PT700-PT1000) - CT joins the war
As our agreement with CT was set to end around PT700 and CT have a desire to make sure whoever wins a round has worked for it they joined the block versus TGV. Over the course of 6 days of sustained incs averaging around 170 fleets we lost approximately 10k roids. Especially the second night was hard on us when there were a couple of crashwaves landing. After that night we realised grounding wouldnt help and we started attacking again. CT proofed so easy to land on we brought our net losses back a lot (and even gained roids). After these days the block switched back to Apprime and we had an easy time and gained 17k roids in 4 days.
This is also the time we engaged in a pnap with Wishmaster to ensure we would be clear of Innuendo incs.
Most notable incident during this time was probably my personal crash, that at the time had no real effect on our score as i was one of our latestarters and didn't contribute (much) to our score, but it set a bad example.

End of Round (PT1000+) - The crashing days
Well i am not gonna say much on this. Least to say it has been a really frustrating end to a round where we really had a shot. Unfortunately this seems to be a recurring issue within our ranks, that we crash right at the times it really matters. Morale was down to an alltime low and unfortunately us HC's played a rather big part in that. While i have uttered my frustration to quite a few of the crashers, i am as much to blame for this failure as each and every of the crashers (and a bit more as i crashed myself too). I owe everyone who really tried in TGV an apology that we didn't detect and fight the dwindling morale.

All in all it has been a fairly uneventful round. We took our shot at #1 in the best way we considered possible. Honoring to all our deals and our own values.

Regardless of how uneventful and stagnated this round has been, i do not think it is fair to attack App and TGV for that. After all we all play for the win and do whatever we feel we should to get that win. I honestly feel it is not the responsibility of TGV to ensure people outside of TGV are entertained, as quite frankly that's an impossible task. The only responsibility I as a HC had was towards TGV. A responsibility to ensure we got everything out of our potential that we could, the potential to win, and the potential to have fun in the process.

Lastly i want to congratulate Apprime on their win, FAnG on becoming best of the rest, Wishmaster on his planet win, and 3:3 on yet another galaxy win. I would say i hope to prevent you from winning galaxy again in the near future, but i am gonna give that honor and task to someone else!

Influence out!
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Unread 10 May 2013, 18:43   #2
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

Nicely written Influence. That sums it very nicely. I might add a few more things down the road but I think you covered all the major highlights quite well.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 19:34   #3
MaxMilliaN
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

salute to TGV

i never see so much hatred and propaganda against an alliance. a huge block hitting u for most of the round, for 1 reason to backstab a friendly alliance APP. Tbh at some point i thought i thought TGV was going to give in to the pressure. That was my mistake, as a neutral observer i almost never make mistakes..

my mistake was thinking TGV would might act like EVERY alliance without princples and friendship would act. TGV is different. No matter how much hostility u received, u stayed strong till the end. U made sure no1 decides your path. A true example to PA alliances.

True winners: TGV

shame on every1 who blamed and mistreated them.

RESPEC yolo TGV
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I signed up to make sure eX didnt win the round, thanks to your HCs last decision it looks like I succeeded
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Unread 10 May 2013, 19:42   #4
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

I would of preferred tgv would of won and deserved it, when it came down to us deciding who should win then it was simple and i don't think you would of been happy if we had chosen to "let" you win.

you guys did well, we have been in your position too often so i know how you feel to loose such a lead. your right about our defense, we were in no position to war and i was told many times by ronin that before we hit you but we cant help hitting #1.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 19:47   #5
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

Yea only difference gm, CT or ND or fang or any other alliance would choose to hold their roids and backstab their ally.

thats how any other "top" alliance plays the game. Only exceptions are tgv app

yolo
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Unread 10 May 2013, 20:46   #6
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

Lol, i found it amusing that another alliance were unwilling to stagnate the round, and would rather lose their planets ranking than being NAPed to an allready bigger block, leaves u in disbelief.
A major part of ODDR did not want to be fencesitters, around 20 planet left due to this, and a lot of the remaining players were also more or less grieved by the fact that they ended up bottom feeeding for the remainder of the round.
Atleast ODDR had the balls to break the NAP with you.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 20:54   #7
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
I would of preferred tgv would of won and deserved it, when it came down to us deciding who should win then it was simple and i don't think you would of been happy if we had chosen to "let" you win.

you guys did well, we have been in your position too often so i know how you feel to loose such a lead. your right about our defense, we were in no position to war and i was told many times by ronin that before we hit you but we cant help hitting #1.
TGV would have deserved it indeed. After all it was the best alliance this round.

That might be so MaxMillian, but this is a game after all. Backstabbing makes for more entertaining rounds.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 21:17   #8
Influence
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Lol, i found it amusing that another alliance were unwilling to stagnate the round, and would rather lose their planets ranking than being NAPed to an allready bigger block, leaves u in disbelief.
A major part of ODDR did not want to be fencesitters, around 20 planet left due to this, and a lot of the remaining players were also more or less grieved by the fact that they ended up bottom feeeding for the remainder of the round.
Atleast ODDR had the balls to break the NAP with you.
That post makes absolutely no sense at all... but if you are posting here to troll please don't... This post and the following discussion are a tradition that TGV once had to open up honest discussion rid of all the alliance politics that is involved in AD threads during the round. The whole issue with you approaching us with that 'deal' wasn't the fact ODDR wanted to break the NAP. If ODDR truely wanted to break the nap we could have been completely civil about it, entered a cooldown period and commenced hostilities when we felt like it. Also it wasn't ODDR that wanted to break the nap, but it was your lone wolf self.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 21:18   #9
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Lol, i found it amusing that another alliance were unwilling to stagnate the round, and would rather lose their planets ranking than being NAPed to an allready bigger block, leaves u in disbelief.
A major part of ODDR did not want to be fencesitters, around 20 planet left due to this, and a lot of the remaining players were also more or less grieved by the fact that they ended up bottom feeeding for the remainder of the round.
Atleast ODDR had the balls to break the NAP with you.
Kindly go away. You have already polluted several threads with your BS and propaganda. The way you approached TGV regarding a modification of the agreement was quite horrible too. ODDR HC should be doing politics not a BC or member that thinks he knows better, and all HCs and not just a few.

Also there were other alliances besides TGV/App you could have hit but you choose to want to join a numerically superior block and go in for a massive gang up just like it has happened in previous rounds. If ODDR had committed to App/TGV and helped with the target picking I wouldnt call it fencing, but if on the other hand they make agreements with several... well how exactly is that TGVs fault. We allied ODDR in game to benefit TGV and not to deprive you of targets. We already had Fang/ND to deal with and some random incomings from others and it was just a matter of time before CT joined in.

But of course that doesnt matter to you. You keep spouting the same crap over and over again about the good of the game. Alliances are here to win and not worry about the good of the game. There is a whole forum dedicated to improving the game, kindly direct your posts there and not this thread.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Nightwolf View Post
TGV would have deserved it indeed. After all it was the best alliance this round.

That might be so MaxMillian, but this is a game after all. Backstabbing makes for more entertaining rounds.
I am pretty sure if we did as you suggested numerous people would jump on us for backstabbing. It was a lose-lose situation for us no matter what so we stuck with our principals.
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Last edited by RexDrax; 10 May 2013 at 21:30.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 21:30   #10
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post

I am pretty sure if we did as you suggested numerous people would jump on us for backstabbing. It was a lose-lose situation for us no matter what so we stuck with our principals.
Agreed, looking back TGV was pretty much rim-rocked at the time.

Anyways I hope to see you guys back next round. \o
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Unread 10 May 2013, 21:33   #11
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
That post makes absolutely no sense at all... but if you are posting here to troll please don't... This post and the following discussion are a tradition that TGV once had to open up honest discussion rid of all the alliance politics that is involved in AD threads during the round. The whole issue with you approaching us with that 'deal' wasn't the fact ODDR wanted to break the NAP. If ODDR truely wanted to break the nap we could have been completely civil about it, entered a cooldown period and commenced hostilities when we felt like it. Also it wasn't ODDR that wanted to break the nap, but it was your lone wolf self.
This was as civil as it will ever get, ODDR would not support TGV to #1 when the round was slipping into stagnation, we could accepted the invite from all the other allies that wanted to hit you if so.
We would stay neutral, and hit both "sides".
There was no doubt who wanted to hit TGV, and who cared more for fencing in the HC team, eventually you wouldve been hit, i just wanted to be honest about it.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 21:47   #12
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
I would of preferred tgv would of won and deserved it, when it came down to us deciding who should win then it was simple and i don't think you would of been happy if we had chosen to "let" you win.

you guys did well, we have been in your position too often so i know how you feel to loose such a lead. your right about our defense, we were in no position to war and i was told many times by ronin that before we hit you but we cant help hitting #1.
We were allways aware we were gonna get CT incs at some point, we tried to avoid it for as long as possible, until we had either worn out more opponents or we could get some new deals to keep the incs manageable. There is absolutely no bad blood towards you from any of the TGV HC's as far as i am aware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwolf View Post
TGV would have deserved it indeed. After all it was the best alliance this round.

That might be so MaxMillian, but this is a game after all. Backstabbing makes for more entertaining rounds.
I don't know if TGV was actually the best alliance this round. I think that it is a close run between TGV and App, while i am still convinced FAnG had the best material this round. They just failed early on, i can't tell why they failed like they did tho. From what i am hearing they had some proper culture clash with the fang core and the ultores recruits, along with an inactive HC team. But after they did TGV and App had too much of a lead for FAnG to come back on their own and needed a war between App and TGV to return.

Luckily tho, it's not allways the best alliance that wins the round. If it was, then this game would have been dead ages ago. The fact a less gifted alliance can sometimes win (or get a top planet) is what keeps this game going.

While i agree rounds with a more dynamic meta-game are generally more entertaining rounds, it's not allways possible to go for a war tho. I personally would have loved it if the meta-game allowed App and TGV to go have a war in the last week to decide who the true winner out of us was. Unfortunately for various reasons it was fairly clear to TGV that we wouldn't get enough support to have a 'balanced' war, in fact we most likely still would have had the entire block apart from CT on us. Those were conditions where TGV could not go to war. App was ahead far enough for TGV to need some proper XP lands in the last week to actually win. It ended up that this week all we seemed to be able to do was crash, and we definitely weren't able to defend our own anymore.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 22:10   #13
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This was as civil as it will ever get, ODDR would not support TGV to #1 when the round was slipping into stagnation, we could accepted the invite from all the other allies that wanted to hit you if so.
We would stay neutral, and hit both "sides".
There was no doubt who wanted to hit TGV, and who cared more for fencing in the HC team, eventually you wouldve been hit, i just wanted to be honest about it.
The modification you approached us with was not civil, if you honestly think it was, and are not just trolling like allways (in which case i kindly request you to get the **** out of this thread again), then i suggest you go into training with CT as they do get how to play that part of the meta-game.

If you had approached us saying 'hey bro we know we requested the full nap with you but given the fact you are running away with the win and are stagnating the round and would like to drop the nap', than we would have responded by suggesting a cooldown period and we would have respected your decision. Fact of the matter is you came to us (without backing of your own HC i might add) with a deal that said 'hey bro we are gonna hit you (tonight) but you can't hit us back and if you do i will drag you through the mud for the entire universe to see' (sorry but i can't see it any other way). You obviously hoped we would see it as a declaration of war and would have hit ODDR that night, and that your HC's would see it as a pure betrayal. The fact you approached us on the one night ODDR's political HC wasn't available for us to contact only attests to that. The reason we send your alliance an ingame request that day was to make sure you couldn't start this war until rexty came back and there was a more clear ODDR HC decision on the table. Effectively creating the 'cooldown' period we could have discussed on had you approached us with more than half a working braincell.

P.S. I can't believe i just spend another 15 minutes dealing with your crap. If you are so concerned for the future of this game as you claim to be you might wanna have to rethink your strategy because it is people like yourself that have had a major part in my personal decision to retire from this game.
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Unread 10 May 2013, 22:51   #14
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
The modification you approached us with was not civil, if you honestly think it was, and are not just trolling like allways (in which case i kindly request you to get the **** out of this thread again), then i suggest you go into training with CT as they do get how to play that part of the meta-game.

If you had approached us saying 'hey bro we know we requested the full nap with you but given the fact you are running away with the win and are stagnating the round and would like to drop the nap', than we would have responded by suggesting a cooldown period and we would have respected your decision. Fact of the matter is you came to us (without backing of your own HC i might add) with a deal that said 'hey bro we are gonna hit you (tonight) but you can't hit us back and if you do i will drag you through the mud for the entire universe to see' (sorry but i can't see it any other way). You obviously hoped we would see it as a declaration of war and would have hit ODDR that night, and that your HC's would see it as a pure betrayal. The fact you approached us on the one night ODDR's political HC wasn't available for us to contact only attests to that. The reason we send your alliance an ingame request that day was to make sure you couldn't start this war until rexty came back and there was a more clear ODDR HC decision on the table. Effectively creating the 'cooldown' period we could have discussed on had you approached us with more than half a working braincell.

P.S. I can't believe i just spend another 15 minutes dealing with your crap. If you are so concerned for the future of this game as you claim to be you might wanna have to rethink your strategy because it is people like yourself that have had a major part in my personal decision to retire from this game.
Well you are more or less correct on that it would be simpler for us to take a decision if you had hit us, but we all knew you would never do it when you were in that position.
If we had wanted to backstab you we wouldve gone for a fatter gal, or an fort, there was only one planet in the raid in TGV, and not even top100.
If you would retall us on those terms, we wouldnt have had to taken any sides, we would just ended your round early, as no one can fight war on two fronts.
Again, the reason for me wanting to hit TGV was not because i didnt want you to win or anything, just i thought it unfair for the rest of the univers if we had kept roiding the smaller allies, and letting you run away With the win staying NAPed.
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Unread 11 May 2013, 01:09   #15
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

butcher, if you had not gone behind the back of the only ODDR HC who was allowed to do politics ( as we all agreed upon pre round ) you would still have been in oddr.

that proposal you made to tgv had me spill my beer because i was laughing so hard....
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Unread 11 May 2013, 01:11   #16
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

Congratz to TGV, you play very well this round!

The only problem in TGV is have Clouds and Cronox, when you kick this 2 noobs TGV gonna win!
=p
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Unread 19 May 2013, 11:29   #17
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

Yes our stats did show you as one of our top 3 lunch boxes for round 51, as we only did galaxies the entire round, and as you suspected were neutral (despite ODDR's paranoia that we were 1, targetting them and 2, blocked up), this was merely the yumminess of your galaxies and nothing else.
Your choice to run BS/CR may well have been a contributing factor to our galaxy choices as we had not dictated a race selection so we had less holes than you in defence and offence.
We made no matches made in hell or heaven, we are and remain, the Monster Raving Looney Party of pa (its a UK political party which will google well) !
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Unread 20 May 2013, 02:24   #18
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

really congrats to TGV,
very well played... strong and solid alliance =)
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Unread 21 May 2013, 15:34   #19
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Lol, i found it amusing that another alliance were unwilling to stagnate the round, and would rather lose their planets ranking than being NAPed to an allready bigger block, leaves u in disbelief.
A major part of ODDR did not want to be fencesitters, around 20 planet left due to this, and a lot of the remaining players were also more or less grieved by the fact that they ended up bottom feeeding for the remainder of the round.
Atleast ODDR had the balls to break the NAP with you.
haha its funny how this number goes up every time he says it. It's like the old childhood game telephone, only no ones on the other end and B-Butch3r is just talking to himself
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Unread 25 May 2013, 23:10   #20
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Re: R51 Through the eyes of a TGV HC

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Originally Posted by AndyMan View Post
haha its funny how this number goes up every time he says it. It's like the old childhood game telephone, only no ones on the other end and B-Butch3r is just talking to himself
I bet NeXT time i post its 30
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