Easy change to keep smaller players

[Will]

This may be highly controversial and I have little experience of what it's like to play in the upper ranks, but... I propose that the bash limits be raised.

The idea is to prevent the larger, experienced planets constantly "farming" for easy roids from planets that couldn't possibly defend against them, resulting in loss of morale and eventually quitting - these are the people we need to keep if the game has any hope of growth.

To compensate for the apparent reduction to the number of targets that this causes, the incentive to attack larger planets should be increased (I imagine by designing stats to make it easier to attack).

Thus, the focus of attacks shifts more to the larger, previously "invulnerable" planets, giving smaller planets a better chance to survive. New roids entering the universe will not flow so readily to the already-large planets.

Discuss, flame, troll, etc.

[Paisley]

totally agree that the stats for this round have been defensive

[neroon]

also quite a bullshit imo..

1) make salvage ok again

2) if anything, bring back the idea, that u can be attacked by 3-4x value planets than ureself, but with fleet value limitations - if ure tgt is ~4x smaller in value than u are, then u can still att him/her tho can send just a portion of yer fleet, not everything.. if i remember correctly then we used to be able to do that in early rounds, one just sent like 1/5th of their fleet to att smaller players..

and the reasons for these 2 things:

1) atm it again favors the shit players with low value/score, encourages crashlanding and makes a big dent to bigger players being able to defend at all

2) u dont need to cripple the top planets with their target range; u wanna encourage fleet movements, while still avoiding big bashings. with this, big planets still cant bash their ttgts, they can just try to roid em, which kinda is the point of this strange game called planetarion

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Will

The idea is to prevent the larger, experienced planets constantly "farming" for easy roids from planets that couldn't possibly defend against them

This does not actually happen as much as you think. There already is an easy way out: join an alliance.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

This does not actually happen as much as you think. There already is an easy way out: join an alliance.

Originally Posted by Ingame Mail

About attacking smaller players that is part of the game and the only reason I have high score and 1k roids is cos I'm very active on irc and have friends available by txt to send me def.

In my experience, this is the prevailing attitude - though I'm open to proof to the contrary. The original suggestion was to shift the attention of already-large planets seeking an easy roid boost away from the small planets, making small planets join an alliance does not do that.

Originally Posted by neroon

bring back the idea, that u can be attacked by 3-4x value planets than ureself, but with fleet value limitations - if ure tgt is ~4x smaller in value than u are, then u can still att him/her tho can send just a portion of yer fleet, not everything.. if i remember correctly then we used to be able to do that in early rounds, one just sent like 1/5th of their fleet to att smaller players..

Originally Posted by neroon

u dont need to cripple the top planets with their target range; u wanna encourage fleet movements, while still avoiding big bashings. with this, big planets still cant bash their ttgts, they can just try to roid em, which kinda is the point of this strange game called planetarion

Limiting fleet value based on target value would certainly address the same problem and I'd welcome such a change - but which is easier to implement and therefore more likely to happen in our lifetime?

[neroon]

Originally Posted by Will

Limiting fleet value based on target value would certainly address the same problem and I'd welcome such a change - but which is easier to implement and therefore more likely to happen in our lifetime?

well.. as i said earlier, i remember this kind of thing being used in the past.. so i think there is, or at least was, something coded for such thing..

and i`d still vouch against just making the bash limit higher.. as that would again be something that limits the game, not makes it better overall :/

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Will

In my experience, this is the prevailing attitude - though I'm open to proof to the contrary. The original suggestion was to shift the attention of already-large planets seeking an easy roid boost away from the small planets, making small planets join an alliance does not do that.

You're right, joining an alliance doesn't prevent bigger planets from attacking you. It does discourage them somewhat, but that is not the goal: that is just a means. The goal is prevent getting roided. Discouraging attacks does that, but simply defending against attacks does this too. That's what joining an alliance helps you do.

[Gio2k]

Originally Posted by neroon

2) if anything, bring back the idea, that u can be attacked by 3-4x value planets than ureself, but with fleet value limitations - if ure tgt is ~4x smaller in value than u are, then u can still att him/her tho can send just a portion of yer fleet, not everything.. if i remember correctly then we used to be able to do that in early rounds, one just sent like 1/5th of their fleet to att smaller players..

What would prevent 5 big planets sending 1/5 of their fleets each? Also, what would prevent a big planet being escorted by other planets and land solo for full cap?

[Mzyxptlk]

The way it used to work in that other game is:

cap = 0.15 * max(1, defender_planet_value / total_attacker_fleet_value)

You could still send a roiding and a killing fleet, but that takes up 2 slots and is thus less efficient. Still better than simply not landing at all, though.

[neroon]

Originally Posted by Gio2k

What would prevent 5 big planets sending 1/5 of their fleets each? Also, what would prevent a big planet being escorted by other planets and land solo for full cap?

nothing and nothing.. and tbh i cant see the reason why we need to prevent those 2 things from happening either..

this is a war game.. ppl defend and attack, smaller and bigger, etc etc.. i get that no bashing should be allowed in terms of someone sending 3mill value fleet to 1mill value planet that has absolutly no way to block it.. but i cant see the reason why big planets should be forbidded to roid smaller ones with low value fleets.. escorts or not, they happen.. lolwaves or not, they happen

[DragonKing]

I would agree that some a new system could liven things up, and maybe make the game more balanced. Possibly reducing cap when taking into account total defense value vrs total attack value. Although this would increase the work for Busy DCs in figuring out just how much defense to send to a planet to reduce cap most effectively.

I also think there could be an element of cheating this would allow. Say a top 5 planet has 10 incoming on one wave all bs cr. He could theoretically get some fi co to join as attackers to reduce overall cap to virtually nothing. It is worth considering if changes can be made and some way can be found to balance it ingame

[Mistwraith]

Originally Posted by DragonKing

I also think there could be an element of cheating this would allow. Say a top 5 planet has 10 incoming on one wave all bs cr. He could theoretically get some fi co to join as attackers to reduce overall cap to virtually nothing. It is worth considering if changes can be made and some way can be found to balance it ingame

you are correct, this used to happen, some of the implementations in place were put there to prevent this.

[Paisley]

Also known as Red Defence

[Mistwraith]

/me pulls up a chair for Paisley to sit in the old farts corner with her.

[Tiamat101]

Neroon Why should a high value planet be allowed for farm on planets much lower value and score then him. 1/2 his roiding fleet is generally the same size or bigger than there entire fleet.

I think the bash limits should be raised to prevent the t10 mainly from hitting people less than 50% of there score. Thats just pointless and would otherwise be considered FARMING.

Also this whole thing about joining an alliance to prevent attacks doesnt work because people just attack anyway. The only way to avoid being attacked is to not play or get a fenced Gal.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Neroon Why should a high value planet be allowed for farm on planets much lower value and score then him. 1/2 his roiding fleet is generally the same size or bigger than there entire fleet.

Because they've earned it by being better at the game than they are. You might just as well ask why people who are good at Counter-Strike should be allowed to shoot at people who aren't.

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Also this whole thing about joining an alliance to prevent attacks doesnt work because people just attack anyway. The only way to avoid being attacked is to not play or get a fenced Gal.

I repeat: the goal is not avoiding incomings. The goal is avoiding getting roided. Joining an alliance certainly helps with that.

[Tiamat101]

You know what Mz there really is no point to arguing with you because you really don't look at this from a new player perspective. To them they are being attacked by people that they are at the bash limit off and have no chance to deal with it.

By raising the bash limit you make it harder for people that are already winning to keep on doing so. Which is what it should be, not make it easy for them farm roids off bash limit planets.

[Kolla]

there are a lot of cheaters in Pa
Hidding resources, at the start there will be a lot of ppl hidding his resources in the gal fund and ally fund , also I can see a lot of alliance farms hidden in small galaxies or big galaxies with 1 small MOD

maybe if we set bash limits for defence then small planets cant cheat and will be more action for small players because could be more easily land for them

[Mzyxptlk]

No, there aren't.

Hiding resources is not cheating. If you see "alliance farms", report them to the MHs.

And bash limits for defense? Really? That's the worst idea I've heard in quite a while.

[neroon]

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Neroon Why should a high value planet be allowed for farm on planets much lower value and score then him. 1/2 his roiding fleet is generally the same size or bigger than there entire fleet.

I think the bash limits should be raised to prevent the t10 mainly from hitting people less than 50% of there score. Thats just pointless and would otherwise be considered FARMING.

Also this whole thing about joining an alliance to prevent attacks doesnt work because people just attack anyway. The only way to avoid being attacked is to not play or get a fenced Gal.

Ok, Ill try to tell what im thinking here again Tia.. i understand what bashing is and im not saying it should be allowed in this term - bashing..

However I fail to see why big planets, that have played their round decently and invested a great deal of their time to this, are restricted who they can hit and who they cant.. this game has so fcking many things that award the inactive and bad players that its gettin ridiculous already, so why not give some new oppertunities to the players that are good in this game as well..

what i meant, was that top1 should be allowed to hit a planet ranked 850ish if he wants.. although top1 planet shouldnt be able to send his all fleet and bash the top850 planet.. instead he could send like 30k beetle and 2k mosqs instead to try to roid it..

all players can hit everyone in active universe - tho are restricted in how much fleet they are able to send.. this all = no basing, more opperutnities to get roids, etc etc.. and dont tell me about roidfarming etc.. ppl do it nowdays as well and MH just need to deal with it

and dont tell me again about bashing as what i just wrote is not bashing.. its just a way to play a game, noone is bashed

[Tiamat101]

Well if you did that than top 1 would be able to farm the 90 roid inactive planets for roids every night and get away with it. It would turn the already growing number of inactive farm gals into 50 roid planets. Because a top planet isnt going to be defending all that much as you've said to me before. So instead why wouldnt he just send 500 pods at a 100 roid planet to gain those 10 roids because its cheap and easy and cost them nothing.

A top planet should have to work to get there roids not be rewarded with the fact that they can roid the inactive part of the uni.

Having been a top active planet and im sure there are alot of people that have been in that position and it sucks. But its also a reward in itself because you get to say im attacking this person and know that you can attack just about anyone.

The only thing this proportional fleet sizing is going to do is enable the big planets to avoid active players even more. Is that what you want to happen. Because if you think top planets will aim into the group of actual active planets when they can easily roid 50-100 roids a night of the 200k and under planets with no actual cost to there planet why would they.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by neroon

this game has so fcking many things that award the inactive and bad players that its gettin ridiculous already, so why not give some new oppertunities to the players that are good in this game as well..

Other than the bash limit, can you name some of those "many things" that benefit low ranking players but not high ranking ones?

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Well if you did that than top 1 would be able to farm the 90 roid inactive planets for roids every night and get away with it. It would turn the already growing number of inactive farm gals into 50 roid planets. Because a top planet isnt going to be defending all that much as you've said to me before. So instead why wouldnt he just send 500 pods at a 100 roid planet to gain those 10 roids because its cheap and easy and cost them nothing.

Because people who get 20 roids a night don't keep top planets for long. Shaz, who did not have particularly many roids for a top planet (2858 before getting roided), gained 53 roids a day.

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

A top planet should have to work to get there roids not be rewarded with the fact that they can roid the inactive part of the uni.

Why not? If they're top planets, doesn't that mean they're playing the game better than anyone else? Why should that not be rewarded?

[ellonweb]

XP round? Rather than try to discourage attacking down, instead encourage attacking up. Certainly XP is so meaningless at the moment that you can ignore it and just go for easy roids, all because the powers that be decided it was a good idea to cripple yet another feature

[neroon]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Other than the bash limit, can you name some of those "many things" that benefit low ranking players but not high ranking ones?

sry had limited time before and hence wrote something that didnt turn out like i wanted :P .. what i meant with that line was that there have been things implemented to planetarion that reward inactivness in my eyes, while there are still silly restrictions for big and active planets, such as this bash thingy for instace..

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

The only thing this proportional fleet sizing is going to do is enable the big planets to avoid active players even more. Is that what you want to happen. Because if you think top planets will aim into the group of actual active planets when they can easily roid 50-100 roids a night of the 200k and under planets with no actual cost to there planet why would they.

whats this avoiding thingy ure talking about..

1) there are alliances that wont let their members do all sorts of bullshit; such as 3x 1k podroiding small inactive planets.. if they do let this happen all the time, then they will lose on 1 big planet and it`s fleets and its their loss

2) as said earlier.. 3x 20 roids a day aint that much of a deal and noone runs away with it.. or at least its quite hard to stay in top.. there are much more rewarding tactics, such as escorting, etc.. which does happen at the moment as well

3) 1mill value planet hittin 100k one with maximum 20k phants and 1k illus worth of a fleet = quite easy to either selfcover or get enough def ingal to cover such a fleet.. its more than possible that the attacker dosent gain any roids

4) there will still be wars, there will still be targetpicks in alliance, there will still be fc`s and retals, etc.. just there will be 1 more option for a bigger planet to attack various tgts.. like take 2 att tgts in TP, 1 of em being 5x smaller of its own value and sending smaller fleet to it.. etc..

i just cant understand whats so unacceptable in this.. there aint gonna be massive gain for the bigger planets score/valuewise, tho it gives em a decent chance to do more..

[Tiamat101]

Because there are planets that dont have ally's are in totally Inactive Gals and wont recieve any Defense. If a top planet has the option every night to to hit one of them why wouldnt he. In the long run he'll end up with more roids than trying to hit an active planet that gets defense. In a sense they will be able to 2x attack tiny planets and 1x def/attack a real planet and know they are garenteed those 30-50 roids. Which is on average what a top planet will pull from a large team-up.

[Blue_Esper]

so i just played a round of value hording, and i experienced a lot of planets well below my bash limit teaming up in waves of 10 or so, and due to the salvage if i defended i would lose more score even though id kill their entire fleet, because of initiative xans firing first i lose a fair bit more then attackers and get hardly any salvage. which is fine, but i think if small planets hit you, the bash limit should be removed for like 72 hours and allow you to retal them and reclaim your lost roids.

[neroon]

i cba to talk over and over and over.. as the point im trying to make stays the same.. and i cant make it more understandable for u tia..

ure stuck in 1 thing here: now that big planets can hit 100k value noobs, all is doomed and massive noob bashing starts..

guess what, bashing will not start, as the big planets can not send big enough fleets to do "bashing".. they are restricted on how big value worth of fleet they can send, and if target dosent get any defence, then shit luck.. if galaxy aint covering 200k value planet ingal when 2mill value planet sent 20k phants and 3k illus then its again, shit luck..

secondly, why on fcking earth should 2mill value planets start bashing 200k valued ones 24/7 ? yes, they might send occasional fleets when they have nothing else to do.. trying a podrun for instance or whatever.. for 20 roids max..

but the thing i can see in my head when i talk about this is.. that now bigger planets would indeed have more better oppertunities to take part of alliance attacks, teamups, etc.. when they aint restricted by the current stupid bashing system.. this means that ppl can aid their allymates more with teamups and so on. .dont be so narrowminded and afraid of ~10 max noobbashers.. im quite sure there aint that many ppl that would wanna play this game for 8 weeks to bash noobs 24/7 for 60 roid gains a day :P seriously