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Unread 22 May 2009, 23:35   #51
Thatcher
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Thanks to killerbee mostly for assembling the group originally although I'll be taking credit for the idea ty o/.

.
it actually all started with a plan to share BG scanners heh. seems so long ago..
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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:03   #52
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I think this is pretty much the best possible outcome for the BG's.
It's a tough choice they had to make, let Asc off the hook and recover. Or keep bashing them and end up turning the bg's +xvx into the bad guys who are ruining the round instead of originally saving the round.
This way even if Asc does win it will be a meaningless victory and actually, if xVx wins it wont be much better, can you imagine winning a round because another ally who is actually better than you and has more score than you kicks some members to let you be first?
Anyway, so Asc still might reconsider some of their decisions they made and try to make an alliance that fits a bit better in the game next round to avoid the whole universe teaming up against them again plus theres still a lot of life left in the round even at tick 676.
Ofcourse now you get the same situation as at the start of the round, the 3 biggest alliances are all on the same side again, but I think given that was the situation at start of the round too, getting over 600 ticks of fun out of the round has already been impressive
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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:15   #53
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Anyway, so Asc still might reconsider some of their decisions they made and try to make an alliance that fits a bit better in the game next round to avoid the whole universe teaming up against them again
"we sure showed those guys"
..............
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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:48   #54
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
"we sure showed those guys"
..............
Not sure what you meant, but what i said wasnt meant at all in any kind of bragging way.
It just seems that people only reconsider what they're doing when things go wrong, things went wrong now so I'm hoping some stuff will be reconsidered

(wrong for Asc ofcourse, I dont think anyone else can complain)

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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:49   #55
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Well this certainly hasn't been the worst round of PA ever!
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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:59   #56
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
Well this certainly hasn't been the worst round of PA ever!
it truly has.
I regret joining a smal bg and I regret signing up for the round.
No point playing with 1 competent alliance.
I ll bb when some decent alliance come to compete sometime in the future
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 May 2009, 01:57   #57
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Why don't you make a decent ally then wish and then you would have won this round instead so you can win next round as I hope too see more things going on next round some big allies same size as ally limit fighting for 1st not just asc and xvx at limit but congrats to bgs for winning in my eyes asc have congratulated us so I take that as a good thing as asc only decent ally in pa I actually respect doubt asc will let xvx off again next round they make sure they deal with them before they have to give them the win again I know asc will stick to the agreement as there honourable players
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Unread 23 May 2009, 02:13   #58
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Demort View Post
Why don't you make a decent ally then wish and then you would have won this round instead so you can win next round as I hope too see more things going on next round some big allies same size as ally limit fighting for 1st not just asc and xvx at limit but congrats to bgs for winning in my eyes asc have congratulated us so I take that as a good thing as asc only decent ally in pa I actually respect doubt asc will let xvx off again next round they make sure they deal with them before they have to give them the win again I know asc will stick to the agreement as there honourable players
cause I tried and I failed.
What did I learn from that? 2 things.
1. Its not worth the effort.
2. I m a shit HC

Now, let someone else try. Whats the saying again.... Winners never quit, quitters never win, but those who never quit and never win are loosers. Something like that?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 May 2009, 02:57   #59
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I don't think your a looser I think your lovely just maybe a too big head to actually fix the things you do wrong hehe
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Unread 23 May 2009, 03:11   #60
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demort View Post
Why don't you make a decent ally then wish and then you would have won this round instead so you can win next round as I hope too see more things going on next round some big allies same size as ally limit fighting for 1st not just asc and xvx at limit but congrats to bgs for winning in my eyes asc have congratulated us so I take that as a good thing as asc only decent ally in pa I actually respect doubt asc will let xvx off again next round they make sure they deal with them before they have to give them the win again I know asc will stick to the agreement as there honourable players
If by now you are hyperventilating due to lack of air, you have probably realized that something in the text is missing – punctuation marks to tell us when to take a pause in our reading and separate between ideas and stages in the story. One of these punctuation marks is the humble period.

When your typing try and say the lines out loud. Every time you take a breath, use a period "." or a comma ",". That will help your posts be more easily understood.

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Unread 23 May 2009, 03:28   #61
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I will remember that but its actually how I talk too in real life, I tend to not pause much and talk for hours. If you fancy meeting up sometime ill show you that I don't pause or take breathers and I not only talking about talking hehe , but I will attempt to punctuate as much as I can.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 05:23   #62
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I thought it's quite a "given" that xVx and Ascendancy has always been sleeping together, since pre-tick.

Pretty smart really. xVx joined the block to hit Ascendancy last sunday night because the block will turn on them in a day or two if they don't join - for roiding as them pretty much the same amount as Ascendancy.

Now that Ascendancy gets unattractive ratio-wise and irritated at them. They gone back to cuddling each other - plus the love from the Battlegroups. Ain't that so cozy? I bet before the block turns on xVx, they'll rejoin them back in hitting Ascendancy.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 05:54   #63
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

This round is a disaster for PA. I'm having a bit of fun, but looking at the entire picture this is not a good sign.

Ascendancy and xVx were the only two #1 contenders, and did not fight for a while. Understandable. They both wanted to roid freely without getting into an early war.

The BGs and smaller alliances had to react in order to not let Ascendancy win within 1-2 weeks, and gangbanged them until they started fighting xVx. Understandable, because if not all thoose doing just that would have been roided silly by Asc and xVx.

xVx joined the war in order to get an advantage on Asc in the struggle for #1. Understandable.

Asc finally admits defeat and promises xVx the win if they can just be allowed to strike at the alliances and BGs that have been trashing them for weeks. Understandable.

Now, I see three possible twists in this. First one is Asc and xVx keeps their agreement, Asc and xVx roid around. The BGs take on one of them but the #1 will be xVx.

The other is that Asc sees a chance at #1, forms some sort of block in order to kill xVx. We get two sides actually fighting(I give this a 0.03% rating)

lastly, the BGs wants xVx to die and grants Asc the win by doing to xVx what they did to Asc earlier.

Asc can win if they want. xVx can win if Asc doesnt want to win.

Anyhow, the current state of this game has become...well...unbalanced. Asc uses more than the ingame member limit to gain an advantage. The two only #1 contenders are avoiding eachother totally early in the round. BGs overkill Asc. Now Asc and xVx will rape the universe...Theres never a real war. Its just slaugther one way or another.

I am in no way denying my part in all of this. I would in most cases have done exactly what Asc xVx BGs has done. I just think the game is i na very very bad state and unless theres done something about it, there wont be much left. I think lowering the alliance limit would help some. Maybe hardcode into the game that you cannot defend anyone but Alliance or Gal(and maybe friendly alliance) to avoid alliance exceeding limit(not saying Asc did something wrnog, they didnt break any rules, but the lack of rules might be ruining the game)

Anyhow. Its 06:52 here. Ive spent enough time on this thread to realize I have to stay over tick again :P guess I was just boored. I guess what I am trying to say that we're all to blame. And noone is better than the other. However if changes are made there might actually be something worth playing for in later rounds, but overkilling eachother constantly.

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Unread 23 May 2009, 06:09   #64
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

When the rest of the quality players decided to form a BG ally instead. That's always the scenario "we (incl you prolly) all know" from pre-tick. Either ganbang asc to make whoever the #2 alliance win, or an Ascendancy win. Full stop.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 08:13   #65
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by furssie View Post
When the rest of the quality players decided to form a BG ally instead. That's always the scenario "we (incl you prolly) all know" from pre-tick. Either ganbang asc to make whoever the #2 alliance win, or an Ascendancy win. Full stop.
Your semi literate point being?

Lull us into a false sense of condescending security, then surprise us with omniscient insight?
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 08:25   #66
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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If you're going to slag off my posting, at least make a good post yourself dude. Reasons why your first paragraph reaks of stupidity:

The asc-core is probably 30 people or so (maybe as many as 50? who knows) - most of the alliance are people who are not die-hard ascendites. If we had a new planetarion where alliances were groups of 20-40, mostly playing in the ascendancy-spirit, they wouldn't go "OMFG I WILL MAKE AN ASCENDANCY-2 TAG AND BE THEIR BITCHES" - they will go "interesting, lets get a group of people and compete for #1"

Understand?
Ok, let's say for a minute you are right.

Asc start dominating at a 40 member limit, will that be oh so different from the previous rounds but on a smaller scale? Albeit with more tags i grant you that.

Also if you want to look clever on an internet forum calling me stupid learn to spell, it's reek dude.

Last edited by ATRO; 23 May 2009 at 08:32. Reason: Edit: I'm sorry i quoted you, it wasn't aimed at YOU but more the masses who are saying similar things.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 09:04   #67
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Ok, let's say for a minute you are right.

Asc start dominating at a 40 member limit, will that be oh so different from the previous rounds but on a smaller scale? Albeit with more tags i grant you that.

Also if you want to look clever on an internet forum calling me stupid learn to spell, it's reek dude.
More tags mean more competition. With the current playerbase being as small as it is, a 90 member tag limit is way too big. I'd prefer a 30 player taglimit personally. Even if there will be Asc1, Asc2, Asc3 and Asc4 around, all co-operating, the smaller tag limit would grant smaller battlegroups and alliances more options to fight for the top spot, would allow more diverse blocks and coalitions and would really help make rounds more interesting.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 09:26   #68
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

30 is too small; 50 or so would be best, there would be a problem with 30 in the lack of support systems like scanners, it has already been mentioned BGs found themselves forced to share scanners.

Newts idea that most of asc are in it to be in the top alliance and wouldnt want to be in a 2nd tag is disproved by the existence of TOOT THE SUPPORT TAG except that in a scenario of ASC PRIMUS and ASC SECUNDUS the only superiority of tag 1 over tag 2 would be in its name.

On the current Issue im certain asc will keep its side of the bargain; but it is fairly obvious we wont need too, there is enough e-hate going around that ascs pathetic lack of roids probably wouldnt stop our being hit more; further as Asc still contrive to be the villains of piece for our unorthodox way of getting out of a bind, ppl will probably hit us for being so shit as to not want to go for number 1! how could any alliance want to do that?
.... oh wait there are a dozen already. We could think of Asc now as an enormous battlegroup.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 09:35   #69
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

kill their children, so they wont come back to haunt you... why spare asc?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 09:43   #70
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

obvious answer to that is that we get resurrected at round end; the ghost of asc cant be banished except by asc itself.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 09:47   #71
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by HK View Post
More tags mean more competition. With the current playerbase being as small as it is, a 90 member tag limit is way too big. I'd prefer a 30 player taglimit personally. Even if there will be Asc1, Asc2, Asc3 and Asc4 around, all co-operating, the smaller tag limit would grant smaller battlegroups and alliances more options to fight for the top spot, would allow more diverse blocks and coalitions and would really help make rounds more interesting.
Actually it'd cause the alliance game to turn into a game of chicken at that size, much like galaxies have become where the best performing galaxy loses and the ones that get the least incoming (because they're largely irrelevant) win. You would be devaluing alliance ranking, much like galaxy ranking has become devalued.

You can make tags small, but not small enough whereby it takes only 2 tags or so to defeat them.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 10:02   #72
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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<@Cortana> the condistion was
<@Cortana> asc WILL let xvx finish above them
<@Cortana> thall asc members voted for it
<@Cortana> because they want to hit bgs
<@Cortana> for rest of rounds
If 2 alliances organise their ranks between themselves isn't this slightly against the rules? Since people love analogies I'll use a football one. If two teams planned how they would play to put one above the other (would never happen) then this would create an unfair advantage for all remaining teams.

I can understand a NAP between alliances, but predetermined rank organisation seems like 2 alliances acting as one.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 10:11   #73
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong;

Asc and xVx were sleeping together, asc firmly in first place. xVx just doing nicely, didnt expect to win anyway.
elviz was bored and decided to sort a teamup on a big xvx planet, causing cardi to be pissed off and join the BG's in hitting asc.

Then Asc started losing serious roids, due to xVx firepower added to the BG's being the drop that tips the scale. Asc lost 1st place.

Then Asc cry they are about to quit, and vote to kill off the BG's and vow to end #2 by NAP'ing xVx. Giving them the win.


Now you can tell me alot of things, how the BG's annoyed you all round, gave you alot of inc, and were generally just assholes. BUT the BG's vs Asc was never enough to do serious damage. And imho it looks like you have been digging your own grave, and decided to lie in it prematurely. GG ;D Someone scream Ministreeh please, that will explain alot!
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Unread 23 May 2009, 10:13   #74
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Duo so what would you do? CT is not well known for its will to fight surely you can forgive its loss in others?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 10:17   #75
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Although I think a lot of arguments for smaller alliance tags are making sense to a certain degree, I cant help reading: '' Now we all made BGs, everyone should addept to us ''.

Why arent there any people standing up to take the challenge, like Denial did last time. That was probably the last round an alliance picked up the challenge from the start and the whole universe turned against them also ( smart tactics played by Asc ). All in all, it seems that the universe, no matter what, will never let an alliance which has a reputation of being capable of winning a round actually go unchallenged. This is a good thing, if you ask me.

But it might also be the reason why alliances cant be bothered to even try and make a stand once again. I mean, unless you are still actively playing with an alliance now, it would mean you will have to start from ''scratch '', contacting members, recruiting new ones ( and possibly not good enough ones ), set up your tools again and so on... If anyone is to blame for the stagnation of the game, it would be all of us, since we all played it in a way which eventually turned it into the state it is in now.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 10:32   #76
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Maybe hardcode into the game that you cannot defend anyone but Alliance or Gal(and maybe friendly alliance) to avoid alliance exceeding limit(not saying Asc did something wrnog, they didnt break any rules, but the lack of rules might be ruining the game)
Obviously, if you allow to defend friendly alliances it wont make a difference as you can just make a second tag. If you hardcode no oot/oog defence and don't allow people to def friendly alliances, I know a lot of people like me will have no interest to keep playing the game. A lot of people in asc simply don't have the time to play well enough to be in the primary tag without costing the alliance a lot of score, but want to stay with the community. So we play a small planet that help out with scanning/covopping/defending/attacking when we have the oppurtunity. Obviously if I'm not allowed to defend ascendancy anymore, there isn't really that much more I can do (except scanning, but that is ****ing awful). So the only other option is to stop playing really.

Now maybe the oot def is ruining the game and causing more people to leave tan however many regularly playing planets will quit if they follow through on your suggestion, but obviously this is something that needs to be discussed.

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Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
If 2 alliances organise their ranks between themselves isn't this slightly against the rules? Since people love analogies I'll use a football one. If two teams planned how they would play to put one above the other (would never happen) then this would create an unfair advantage for all remaining teams.

I can understand a NAP between alliances, but predetermined rank organisation seems like 2 alliances acting as one.
Yeah, but in football there are rules against it, in PA there isn't, so the analogy isn't very good.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 11:44   #77
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Not sure what you meant, but what i said wasnt meant at all in any kind of bragging way.
It just seems that people only reconsider what they're doing when things go wrong, things went wrong now so I'm hoping some stuff will be reconsidered
This sounds like when everyone hit Asc in round 26 for "hacking"

I don't really think that this round is going to make people in Asc think "oh noes we need to recruit fewer people next round" - at least it doesn't make me think that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
If 2 alliances organise their ranks between themselves isn't this slightly against the rules? Since people love analogies I'll use a football one. If two teams planned how they would play to put one above the other (would never happen) then this would create an unfair advantage for all remaining teams.

I can understand a NAP between alliances, but predetermined rank organisation seems like 2 alliances acting as one.
Is there anything mentioning this in the EULA?

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Originally Posted by Demort View Post
but congrats to bgs for winning in my eyes asc have congratulated us so I take that as a good thing
I don't think anybody has congratulated the BGs for winning. We've congratulated xvx for winning, but the BGs haven't exactly won anything, none of them are going to win the round and this little war is far from over.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 11:46   #78
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I have caught up on the thread and find myself a little confused. There appears to already be two interpretations of this NAP.

1) ASC let xvx finish above them regardless of final rank. Now this i believe is the first interpretation of the agreement how it is now the agreement seems to assume the round is done and dusted and xvx and asc will have 1 and two.

2) Mz posted in another reply 'The agreement is that if Ascendancy finds itself in first place while xVx is in second place, we will drop members until that changes.' Now i might be reading too much into this but.... this surly states that if xvx find themselves in third or lower that asc can legitimately run for the round win since this part of the agreement will not have been met.....

3) as soon as the tick occours that asc are #1 they drop members, however as already stated they are in a war and want the defence so i figure this might be unlikely.

So given that the BGs were napped / some still might be to xvx i guess they will be a little annoyed by the sudden lack of heart from xvx. BGs switch target for some roids and hit xvx. Assuming asc know this and have planned for such an eventuality they simply could gal raid to keep the roids coming while the remaining BGs knock 7 shades of hell out of xvx for what has happened. If this happens one of two things will occour

1) xvx are hit so badly they move to third Asc stand by the first interpretation of the NAP and move to 4th allowing CT and ND to take 1 and two.

2) xvx are hit so hard they move to third Asc still honours its agreement with them however since they are 3rd asc then hits the fatter BGs ( after hitting a roid fat xvx they will be larger, assuming asc monitors and dnt hit them too hard) After asc hits the bgs they elevate themselves to #1 and have not broken any kind of nap.

ps. i might be giving asc too much credit i might be reading too much into it but either way

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Unread 23 May 2009, 11:46   #79
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
I don't really think that this round is going to make people in Asc think "oh noes we need to recruit fewer people next round" - at least it doesn't make me think that way.
If anything we need more, if we're going to encounter this kind of blocking every round. To the recruitment mobile!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryph View Post
1) ASC let xvx finish above them regardless of final rank. Now this i believe is the first interpretation of the agreement how it is now the agreement seems to assume the round is done and dusted and xvx and asc will have 1 and two.

2) Mz posted in another reply 'The agreement is that if Ascendancy finds itself in first place while xVx is in second place, we will drop members until that changes.' Now i might be reading too much into this but.... this surly states that if xvx find themselves in third or lower that asc can legitimately run for the round win since this part of the agreement will not have been met.....
I have to admit I'm not sure which of these two options accurately describes the agreement, I was not the one who brokered it.

My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter if your alliance ends second or third or seventh; only the first place matters. As such, it makes no sense to intentionally end below xVx if that just means a third alliance is going to run away with the win. If my interpretation is incorrect I'll gladly apologise.

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Originally Posted by Dryph View Post
3) as soon as the tick occours that asc are #1 they drop members, however as already stated they are in a war and want the defence so i figure this might be unlikely.
Awesome though we are, I doubt we'll beat xVx if we're in a war and they're not. Furthermore, an alliance cannot win until the very last tick: midround ranks are meaningless. That said, I think it would be an underhand move to only drop members right before the last tick.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 11:52   #80
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
And I'm not criticizing you for it, mere the fact that the stupidity of the coalition that did not understand that this was actually going to happen.
I love it when people use hindsight to call other people stupid. I've had a quick look but i cant see one forum post from you warning the BG's/Block that xVx would end up nap'ing Asc under the condition Asc give xVx the #1 position no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Mek View Post
we expected xvx to have more balls than this to be brutally honest
Why has xVx got no 'balls' for nap'ing Asc? Asc was getting absolutly slaughtered by the block, so not nap'ing them and continue pwning them isnt exactly the sign of bravery either.

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Originally Posted by [ND]Disc View Post
Prejudging the BGs is dumb, everyone was up for hitting Asc for atleast another week or 2, and why would we hit xVx? We aint got shit on xVx's tactics up until tonight.

Stop trying to put thoughts into xVx's head. At the end of the day this was probably a certainty anyway, seeing as Asc have about 20 members in xVx anyway...
Have a look at wishmasters post in this thread, he was planning on hitting xVx in 48hours or even in just 24hours.

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Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
So alliance ranking is pretty much worthless now.
Alliance rank was worthless as soon as Tick 1 arrived and it became apparent there was only 2 alliances capable of getting 1st.

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
On topic, congrats xVx for ending the round at tick 600, at least the BG's survived longer than we all originally hoped for and have the added bonus of preventing Ascendancy winning their 4th in a row.
The round isnt over, unless you're saying that the round is over when #1 alliance is decided. In that case, there's only 3 scenarios at this point:
1. xVx nap Asc and coast to #1 (which what has happend)
2. xVx continue hitting Asc and the BG's also continue hitting Asc (which xVx automatically get #1, thus the round is already over)
3. xVx continue hitting Asc and the BG's turn on xVx, in this case.. xVx would of been right to go with option #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
Well this certainly hasn't been the worst round of PA ever!
It hasnt been as bad as i expected (that Asc would wtfdominate everything from tick 0) but its been the worse round ive played

Quote:
Originally Posted by furssie View Post
I thought it's quite a "given" that xVx and Ascendancy has always been sleeping together, since pre-tick.

Pretty smart really. xVx joined the block to hit Ascendancy last sunday night because the block will turn on them in a day or two if they don't join - for roiding as them pretty much the same amount as Ascendancy.

Now that Ascendancy gets unattractive ratio-wise and irritated at them. They gone back to cuddling each other - plus the love from the Battlegroups. Ain't that so cozy? I bet before the block turns on xVx, they'll rejoin them back in hitting Ascendancy.
So xVx have been sleeping together all round? Even though xVx have been hitting Asc hard recently? If xVx was with Asc all round, we would of blocked with Asc against the BG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Anyhow, the current state of this game has become...well...unbalanced. Asc uses more than the ingame member limit to gain an advantage. The two only #1 contenders are avoiding eachother totally early in the round. BGs overkill Asc. Now Asc and xVx will rape the universe...Theres never a real war. Its just slaugther one way or another.
Very rarely do the top alliances fight each other from the start and then continue fighting each other for the duration of the round. We only had that last round due to Wishmaster(Omen) with his declaration of war pre-round!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo View Post
As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong;

Asc and xVx were sleeping together, asc firmly in first place. xVx just doing nicely, didnt expect to win anyway.
elviz was bored and decided to sort a teamup on a big xvx planet, causing cardi to be pissed off and join the BG's in hitting asc.

Then Asc started losing serious roids, due to xVx firepower added to the BG's being the drop that tips the scale. Asc lost 1st place.

Then Asc cry they are about to quit, and vote to kill off the BG's and vow to end #2 by NAP'ing xVx. Giving them the win.


Now you can tell me alot of things, how the BG's annoyed you all round, gave you alot of inc, and were generally just assholes. BUT the BG's vs Asc was never enough to do serious damage. And imho it looks like you have been digging your own grave, and decided to lie in it prematurely. GG ;D Someone scream Ministreeh please, that will explain alot!
Actually the round went something like this, from xVx's point of view:
1. We had a unspoken agreement pre-round that we would try to avoid each other's core galaxys but we had no official nap and could roid each other if we wanted (and we did). xVx did this, as EVERYONE expected Asc to absolutly dominate this round with no competition and no-one even trying, xVx protecred itself from this scenario to try and have a semi-enjoyable round if it happend.
2. Asc started attacking the BG's, The BG's block became public and they started hitting Asc.
3. Asc and the BG's asked xVx to join them. xVx did not at the start, as there was simply no point and we didnt know which side we could trust or even how long the block would last (for example, If we went to war with Asc then the BG's block disbanded, xVx would be absolutly screwed). So xVx decided to fencesit for awhile and see how things went.
4. xVx started to get annoyed with afew alliances, I cant remember which ones from the block (but Asc also) as we kept getting alot of random incs from them. Then when elviz organised a teamup on our top planet, that was final push which got us onto the BG's side (As its ok for afew random incs but we really didnt like the idea of Asc trying to take down our top planets).
5. xVx+BG's consistently dominated Asc every night, averaging at -7% growth for Asc every night.
6. Rumours started circulating that the BG's were getting extremly annoyed at xVx (or should i say, annoyed at Cardi's arrogance) and that they might be considering changing tactics and hitting xVx as while they dont want Asc to win, they also dont want Cardi to dominate/win.
7. Asc came to xVx saying that they have given up on #1 alliance rank and would we nap them (note: Nap, not block). Given that the BG's were looking like they was about to stop hitting Asc and hit xVx instead, which turns out to be true judging from Wishmasters post.. We decided to say yes.
8. xVx did not and has not dropped any of the BG naps at this point either. It wasnt nor isnt xVx's intention to block with Asc and destroy the BG's.. Instead it simply opens up the competition again with Asc vs the BG's.

As far as i can see, this nap doesnt stagnate the round.. It actually brings some competition back into it, As now the fight between Asc and BG's is more even rather than a completly one sided battle. The only thing that has changed, is that Asc have simply given up fighting for #1 alliance this round.


Note: Anything ive said in this post, is my opinion and my views on what has happend. I have no real knowledge of xVx's intel or politics, so i could be completly wrong on some of the decisions and why xVx made those decisions. Dont take this post as xVx's official stance and reasons for there actions, as its not.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 11:55   #81
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
[The BGs] dont want Asc to win, they also dont want Cardi to dominate/win.
Come on guys, you can't have your cake and eat it.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:00   #82
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

To me it seems the toys were thrown out the cot by asc due to their heavy incoming from the battlegroups/alliances opposing them. This has now turned in to "lets spite the game" and bash the battlegroups regardless of alliance rank competition. In this instance however, I dont actually see what benefit asc gains from this as at the end of the day the battlegroups/alliances opposing asc have already shown they can out play asc.

I read today asc were willing to kick members if they overtook xvx, considering you guys pride yourself on allowing people to do what they want "just dont be shit" you resemble quite the restricted ally atm. Would this also go as far as if xvx do not get #1 player and an asc is in with the chance of taking this then asc will remove that member also? if so as i just said quite the restrictions you are posing on your own members.

Im all for bashing xvx down forcing asc to kick its tagged members in order to give New Dawn the win \0/
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:06   #83
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

MZ xvx would be in a war if the BGs turn on them. atm xvx is a more attractive target than asc, if asc sit back and watch xvx get hit they dnt have to do nething but wait and hit the bgs whn they are a bit bigger. if xvx are hit down to third or 7th or where ever then does the agreement still hold will asc finish 4th 8th or wherever is needed?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:07   #84
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by '[B5
Newts idea that most of asc are in it to be in the top alliance and wouldnt want to be in a 2nd tag is disproved by the existence of TOOT THE SUPPORT TAG except that in a scenario of ASC PRIMUS and ASC SECUNDUS the only superiority of tag 1 over tag 2 would be in its name.
Nah man. I shudder to say this - but HK has it spot on in his post, but I'll rephrase in my own words too!

No, I';ll give an example instead which could apply to most non-core in asc. Lets say I was heavily involved in a new 40man bg forming, that was going to play in the asc-spirit - and lots of cool people in it. I know Mitre would join it (ignoring the fact hes quit forever), ricoshay would then probably follow suit too. Others would be tempted away by other "fun" new groups emerging elsewhere. In the current alliance system, there would be no chance in ****ing hell of mitre leaving asc to try out a new certain-to-fail-dull-shit 90man alliance. That applies to a lot of people in asc atm I'd say.

edit: I dont doubt that asc would still be the best (initially) and prolly 20 support planets - but as HK said, the universe woul now probably have 10-15 decent quality alliances. Politics would be more dynamic!

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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:19   #85
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by Dryph View Post
the remaining BGs knock 7 shades of hell out of xvx for what has happened. If this happens one of two things will occour
I think you're giving the BGs waaaay too much credit. The ~300 man block consisting of the BGs and ND/VGN didn't really do that much damage to us. I doubt VGN have any interest in hitting xvx since a. They're not ascendancy and b. They didn't roid hylands, and I'm not sure what ND will do. Either way this block isn't going to "knock 7 shades of hell" out of xvx, especially if we keep fighting them.

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That said, I think it would be an underhand move to only drop members right before the last tick.
I don't see why this is underhand. Whilst I also don't know the specifics of the deal, I do think that we should refrain from dropping members until the end since the alliance tag provides the eta bonus on defence.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:41   #86
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

xVx dosent seem too pleased about the idea they might not deserve the win; therefore any early kicking of Ascs just to prove our willingness is stupid as if xVx win when Asc kicked members 2 weeks previous there will always be a question of what might have been.

Asc might like the propaganda value of that, but as we cant know how it would then have gone it would be fundamentally dishonest. Thus kicking has to be at the very end or not at all.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:46   #87
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
xVx dosent seem too pleased about the idea they might not deserve the win; therefore any early kicking of Ascs just to prove our willingness is stupid as if xVx win when Asc kicked members 2 weeks previous there will always be a question of what might have been.

Asc might like the propaganda value of that, but as we cant know how it would then have gone it would be fundamentally dishonest. Thus kicking has to be at the very end or not at all.
So if Asc kicks some people to get xVx above them in score at the very end, xVx does deserve the win?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:49   #88
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

no clearly not; my point was kicking earlier means we could never tell if they do or not. Better to give them the chance of a win they deserve than making sure it will always be in doubt.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:53   #89
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I don't get it.

Why is everyone giving credit to themselves. It's clearly Cardi that made the difference for making xVx hit Ascendancy. Hadn't he decided otherwise, Ascendancy ran away with the win already?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:55   #90
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Yes, it does seem like Cardi managed to beat Asc and win the round with an alliance thats generally seen as weaker than Asc.
Well played on his part.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:56   #91
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Remember kids: whoever ends #1 deserves the win regardless of how they did it! .... so long as its within the rules. This includes them sitting back and watching their main competition self-destruct due to political agreements midround.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 12:58   #92
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Indeed, so why are the non-Cardi deserve credit too?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:01   #93
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Remember kids: whoever ends #1 deserves the win regardless of how they did it! .... so long as its within the rules. This includes them sitting back and watching their main competition self-destruct due to political agreements midround.
I absolutely agree, but the point is that given all the discussion on deserving the win that was had last round, the topic is bound to come up if asc goes and kicks a dozen ppl now; I happen to think that its unlikely asc will actually need to kick members at all.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:10   #94
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

I think we're all in danger of missing the point here. This is all about propaganda (and spin).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Asc finally admits defeat and promises xVx the win if they can just be allowed to strike at the alliances and BGs that have been trashing them for weeks. Understandable.

Now, I see three possible twists in this. First one is Asc and xVx keeps their agreement, Asc and xVx roid around. The BGs take on one of them but the #1 will be xVx.

The other is that Asc sees a chance at #1, forms some sort of block in order to kill xVx. We get two sides actually fighting(I give this a 0.03% rating)

lastly, the BGs wants xVx to die and grants Asc the win by doing to xVx what they did to Asc earlier.

Asc can win if they want. xVx can win if Asc doesnt want to win.

-Jonas-
All three of those outcomes can be interpreted as "a win" for Ascendancy. If they actually finish #1 then they have won (Mr. Obvious strikes again ) - if xVx finishes #1 then it's only because Asc allowed them to do so.

Cunning, eh?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:30   #95
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Yeah well. I'd still think Asc would go for #1 though. JBG and Asc has talked alot about grudges this round. I guess they built up their own

I'm somewhat excited to see whats gonna happen though. I fear the worst. They will roid Sebos
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:35   #96
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryph View Post
MZ xvx would be in a war if the BGs turn on them. atm xvx is a more attractive target than asc, if asc sit back and watch xvx get hit they dnt have to do nething but wait and hit the bgs whn they are a bit bigger. if xvx are hit down to third or 7th or where ever then does the agreement still hold will asc finish 4th 8th or wherever is needed?
Please read my previous post where I answered this exact question.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocteau View Post
Why is everyone giving credit to themselves. It's clearly Cardi that made the difference for making xVx hit Ascendancy. Hadn't he decided otherwise, Ascendancy ran away with the win already?
xVx joining in was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:52   #97
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
It's a NAP, not a block. I'm pretty sure xVx is still napped to the BGs anyway, so this will strictly be an Ascendancy vs BGs thing. Taking down xVx does not hurt us in any way.
I ment that if xVx is being targetted by the rest they will drop to the second rank again.
Then maybe asc will smell the victory and breaks the xVx nap. If they dont break it they will end up low by kicking members at the end and so we have to bring xVx down to a very low point so asc will end up low aswell.
If asc breaks the nap they break their word. And not many alliances will be to happy to nap with them in new rounds cause asc will have a bad reputation in this. Especially xVx wont be to happy with it.
Then xVx has to go to war again with asc to get back to the first rank. Then the competition is on again.

And xVx should be targetted anyway because they napped asc. Then let asc win the round and let xVx feel they should have kept on fighting. And the block can always make a nap with xVx again on just 1 term. Fight asc again.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 13:57   #98
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

We are clearly reaching new heights in lameness.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 14:16   #99
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
So if Asc kicks some people to get xVx above them in score at the very end, xVx does deserve the win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Remember kids: whoever ends #1 deserves the win regardless of how they did it! .... so long as its within the rules. This includes them sitting back and watching their main competition self-destruct due to political agreements midround.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 14:54   #100
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Re: xVx naps Ascendancy

It's all fun, and at the same time it's all horribly predictable PA politics. There's a lot of misinformation going round about why the BGs are playing as they are, and who's done what this round, but I'm tired of trying to explain it to people who don't want to listen. GG xVx and Asc, now let's see what fun comes of this.
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