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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 21:59   #51
MrL_JaKiri
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Re: star trek series?
See earlier in the thread for DS9 thoughts.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:03   #52
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
See earlier in the thread for DS9 thoughts.
IE doesn't want to open the first page.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:04   #53
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
DS9 = Poor man's B5
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:06   #54
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Re: star trek series?
I never really like Babylon 5.

There was too much destiny for my liking.

(And the ships weren't very good. )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:11   #55
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Re: star trek series?
What do you mean, the ships weren't very good?

Design wise, useage wise, size wise?
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:16   #56
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
What do you mean, the ships weren't very good?

Design wise, useage wise, size wise?
Design wise.

The EA/IA ones were fine (except that one in Crusade), but none of the other races had decent ones at all. Nothing beats the Romulan or Klingon ships for "aggression", in my opinion. Most of the ones on B5 just seemed like generic Sci-Fi ships to me (admittedly, ST had its fair share of those, but they tended to be one-offs rather than regulars).
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:20   #57
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Re: star trek series?
...Shadows?

Vorlons?

Drakh?

The minbari cruisers were pretty too.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:21   #58
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Re: star trek series?
DS9 >*

Watch an episode like 'In The Pale Moonlight'...or 'The Changing Face of Evil'.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:25   #59
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
DS9 >*

Watch an episode like 'In The Pale Moonlight'...or 'The Changing Face of Evil'.
I still prefer Intersections in Real Time, War Without End or The Coming of Shadows
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:26   #60
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Re: star trek series?
pish tosh

all the main designs were apt. leaving aside the first ones, the centauri had floating baroque palaces, the narn ships were ugly and functional, the minbari ships implied limited organic technology (though the interiors were rubbish), the human ships looked human.

wasn't much taken with the drazi sunhawk i must admit
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:26   #61
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
...Shadows?

Vorlons?

Drakh?

The minbari cruisers were pretty too.
The Sharlins were indeed nice, but the others just look like generic spider-ships to me...
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:27   #62
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Re: star trek series?
B5 was good from the 2nd season to the end of the Shadow war...after that, it got poo'ish.

Those seasons were ace though.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:30   #63
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Re: star trek series?
Purdy
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:31   #64
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
B5 was good from the 2nd season to the end of the Shadow war...after that, it got poo'ish.

Those seasons were ace though.
The start of season 5 is poor, season 1 is great in places after you know what's going on, the back end of season 4 is rushed (they thought they were getting canned), but still has its moments (eg Intersections in Real Time)
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:36   #65
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The Coming of Shadows
The sequence with the reception for emperor turhan, done entirely without dialogue, is up there with Bartlett yelling at god in The West Wing imo.

It's the second time you watch B5 through that the brilliance of the whole thing becomes apparent.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 22:37   #66
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Re: star trek series?
I liked the 'War Without End' two-parter.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:05   #67
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Re: star trek series?
Babylon5 was best "in it's day" but I don't think it has aged well; if I ever see a rerun I notice the cheesiness more than when I was engrossed in the story arc.

TNG was probably most consistently good, and I looked forward to new episodes of this more than the others (the films were pants though). DS9 and Voyager both had highs and lows, episodes that make you groan and switch channels. Those spiky headed buggers (can't remember the race name) that the Voyager crew had a lot of trouble with early on were tedious enough, but the big low was all the Bajoran religion/vying for Kai (sp?) crap (though to be fair it was needed (or justified) by the final episodes.)

For current sci-fi we have Enterprise (how will they explain all the new races they've introduced that don't exist in later series?), Stargate (ending while it's still good) and Andromeda (patchy but worth sticking with), all very watchable and far better than the likes of Space:Above and Beyond and Earth:Final Conflict.

One last thing that annoys me : in Enterprise I hate that English security officer (again, I'm bad on names today). He's so humourless, pessimistic and seems to be asking to be nobly sacrificed every other week. I guess the exploitation of (shit, it's on the tip of my tongue) Vulcan woman's somewhat magnificent body keeps the viewers attention.

I feel like such a nerd now
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:26   #68
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Re: star trek series?
You say B5's cheesy (which it is in places) and then hold up, as a counter example, TNG?
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:27   #69
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Re: star trek series?
In its favour, Babylon 5 never featured Space Hippies.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:32   #70
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Re: star trek series?
Yes it did (telepaths, season 5).

Although it didn't have the mysterious and colourful SPACE BUTLER
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:36   #71
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Re: star trek series?
I haven't seen that episode, but I doubt that they were real Space Hippies.

Not like the TOS Space Hippies, anyway.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:40   #72
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Re: star trek series?
They had no money, long hair, crap clothing and sat around looking stoned.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:44   #73
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Re: star trek series?
And they were rebelling peacefully against The Man.
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:44   #74
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Re: star trek series?
Trills >

What was that episode where Jadzia's lover got rejoined as a woman?
I CANNOT BELIEVE they put that ep on at usual time! :eek:
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Unread 7 Oct 2003, 23:46   #75
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Re: star trek series?
Rejoined.

And B5 got with lesbianism first with Divided Loyalties in S2
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:08   #76
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
They had no money, long hair, crap clothing and sat around looking stoned.
But no Sixties music!
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:10   #77
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Re: star trek series?
given ToS was filmed in the 60's, they had a bit of an advantage in that regard.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:12   #78
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Re: star trek series?
Exactly.

Hence the inability of any other show ever to match the TOS Space Hippies.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:13   #79
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Re: star trek series?
I still prefer the space butler.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:15   #80
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Re: star trek series?
Giant Space Amoeba?
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:18   #81
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Re: star trek series?
The Space Butler is like Radical Edward.

If you haven't seen, you'll NEVER KNOW
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:20   #82
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
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The Space Butler is like Radical Edward.

If you haven't seen, you'll NEVER KNOW
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:33   #83
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Re: star trek series?
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You say B5's cheesy (which it is in places) and then hold up, as a counter example, TNG?
I don't think I used TNG as a counter-example, and certainly the older episodes of that were uber-cheesy. The crew (well, Pikard, Riker and Worf) used to refer to Wesley as "the boy" with such expressions of disdain when he saved their lives every week. And the amount of times an anomaly has been escaped from by reversing the polarity of some particle beam...

TNG maybe seems better than it was to me because I knew someone who got the episodes sent from the USA as soon as they were broadcast, so there was that smug "I'm seeing these before everyone else" factor that distorts my opinion.

I can't think of any scifi series that you can watch in the company of non-scifi fans without squirming in your seat a little with embarassment. I'm not sure if this the fault of the script writers or a media conspiracy/perpetuation of a stereotype to make us feel foolish/childish/nerdish. Ask anyone what personality traits they associate with startrek fans and we all know what they'll reply...
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 00:50   #84
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Re: star trek series?
Depends on the episode.

See: Intersections in Real Time (mentioning that one a lot aren't I?)
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 01:55   #85
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Re: star trek series?
Star trek (atleast TNG which is all I've ever seen) is fantasy
Babylon 5 is science fiction

It's really that easy.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 02:01   #86
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Re: star trek series?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
B5 is much more physically accurate than DS9; admittedly, there are a few jumps for the plot (hyperspace, artificial gravity (which not all the races have; up until series 5, all Earth Alliance structures had to spin), particle cannons), however, they're much more realistic than transporters and the like.

One thing I didn't realise, however, was that the white star was almost the size of the enterprise e.

Not much contest there, given the relative manouverabilities and firepowers.
and ofc the white star is just bloomin gorgeous
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 02:03   #87
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Re: star trek series?
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In which case, Star Trek loses by default because they all decide to put their crew at unnecessary risk. As to emp, you can remove that issue using a Faraday cage.

Anyone in space that doesn't protect themselves from EMP should lose all eventual wars as a result.
breen weapon in ds9 dominion wars anyone? and ofc the eventual countermeasure
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 02:04   #88
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Re: star trek series?
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Well,

What's wrong with surface 'shields'? It doesn't have to be a force bubble like in other series, but something physical thing built into the ship.
voyager - endgame. ablative armour
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 02:06   #89
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Re: star trek series?
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Design wise.

The EA/IA ones were fine (except that one in Crusade), but none of the other races had decent ones at all. Nothing beats the Romulan or Klingon ships for "aggression", in my opinion. Most of the ones on B5 just seemed like generic Sci-Fi ships to me (admittedly, ST had its fair share of those, but they tended to be one-offs rather than regulars).
vorlon planetkiller has a fair aggresive punch, as does species 8472
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 02:15   #90
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Re: star trek series?
Was the Breen weapon really 'EMP' as such? I guess the actual design of it (specifics) were never explained, but they described it as an "energy dampening" weapon that "drained power".

Regardless, the Breen ships were nifty looking.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 08:44   #91
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Re: star trek series?
Depends on what I'm looking for. If I'm watching a random episode on their nth repeat on cable then TOS or Voyager are the most easily watchable. They both have some decent individual episode (Timeless is the best Trek episode btw). Kirk isn't as much of a liberal twat as Picard of Janeway too.

DS9 however, I must confess, is the best overall series. The early stuff was dodgy and the latter part (with the silly wormhole gods) betrayed what Trek was about tho. However, in the middle of that they actually had a decent story arc (although as always with Trek they ended it crapply).

None of this stops DS9 being a pale imitation of Babylon 5 tho. DS9 was Trek's attempt at a planned storyline, and gives you an indication of what they could have achieved if they had done it with TNG. Babylon 5 is just a lot more coherent and epic. The production values and acting is (mildly) superior in DS9 but who cares? B5's writing > DS9 by a massive, massive margin.

Anyway, although B5 & DS9 are certainly superior series to say, Voyager - I find them harder to sit down and watch. Recently a friend made me a copy of the entire B5 and they sat there for months before being attempted.
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Unread 8 Oct 2003, 13:38   #92
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Re: star trek series?
B5 was written in 1986, and Joe Strasoaudzohahoxhzaohfski was turned down by paramount because 'a series on a space station would never work'
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