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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:04   #201
jt25man
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Re: A Plane Problem

Can't we all just get along...
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:07   #202
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Can't we all just get along...
not if your wife's on the same bench ...
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:07   #203
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You know, that I know, that you know you will seem as though you are contradicting yourself if you answer the question correctly, which is why you are avoiding it.
I thought I told you to point out what was wrong with it, if you considered it to be incorrect. Since you appear to be stuck over an irrelevent issue, I must assume that you're just being a jackass.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:29   #204
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Re: A Plane Problem

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I thought I told you to point out what was wrong with it, if you considered it to be incorrect. Since you appear to be stuck over an irrelevent issue, I must assume that you're just being a jackass.
I can't point that out just yet, I haven't had enough time to take a look at it in greater detail.

Your turn.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:35   #205
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
I can't point that out just yet, I haven't had enough time to take a look at it in greater detail.

Your turn.
I don't need a turn. As I said, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just waiting for you to come out with something to support your proposition. There's nothing to reply to.

Oh, and as a rule of thumb, having the basis of your argument being "I don't know, I haven't looked at it in enough detail" when you're dealing with a basic logical argument is not a good place to be.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:47   #206
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I don't need a turn. As I said, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just waiting for you to come out with something to support your proposition. There's nothing to reply to.
I want to make sure I interpret your explanation correctly. Can you please clarify the following for me:

Is the frictional force caused by the wheel on the track, velocity dependent or not?
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 20:53   #207
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Re: A Plane Problem

All, some, or none of it can be. Why does the frictional force have to have one unique origin?
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 21:25   #208
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
not if your wife's on the same bench ...
Again, please stop trying to flame until you grow some sense of how to do it properly. I realize you probably like being seen as an ass, but you must realize your style is comparable to that of a 5 year old.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 21:26   #209
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Again, please stop trying to flame until you grow some sense of how to do it properly. I realize you probably like being seen as an ass
no one can miss your wife's ass ...
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 21:28   #210
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Re: A Plane Problem

I almost made a post about your inability to use the quote system properly, but you fixed it, good job ace.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 22:17   #211
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
All, some, or none of it can be. Why does the frictional force have to have one unique origin?
You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.

Everyone sees that you incorrectly beleive rolling friction to be dependent on velocity, when it isn't.

I will no longer be posting in this thread, because it has become a boring game in which you skirt around admitting you made a blunder (knowingly or unknowingly) when everone else knows you did.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 22:22   #212
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.

Everyone sees that you incorrectly beleive rolling friction to be dependent on velocity, when it isn't.

I will no longer be posting in this thread, because it has become a boring game in which you skirt around admitting you made a blunder (knowingly or unknowingly) when everone else knows you did.
don't presume to talk for 'everyone'.

All i know is that you are a boring ****
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 22:52   #213
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
but you must realize your style is comparable to that of a 5 year old.
You must realize that your wife is comparable to wikipedia, they've both had millions of entries!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I almost made a post about your inability to use the quote system properly, but you fixed it, good job ace.
your wife can't post properly because her fingers are too fat to use a keyboard!
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 23:19   #214
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Re: A Plane Problem

The wheels and axles will break.

Thus the introduction of Jet and Gas Turbine Technology for vertical take-off and landing.
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 23:44   #215
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Re: A Plane Problem

If it is a VTOL plane, then yes it will take off!
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Unread 28 Dec 2006, 23:51   #216
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Re: A Plane Problem

What if just in front of the plane there's a series of black holes which gradually curve upwards at an ever-increasing rate in strength?
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:01   #217
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Re: A Plane Problem

Ah but what if the treadmill is underwater and the plane is actually a submarine?
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:02   #218
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.
Actually, it doesn't. It doesn't matter a jot if the major cause of friction is the wheels on the tarmac, the wheels on the axel or someone throwing cows at the plane, as long as it scales as a linear function of velocity, plus a constant. A force of one newton acting in the same direction at the same point will have the same no matter the source. In fact, the point of action doesn't matter here either, as we don't care about moments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
when everone else knows you did.
Everyone doesn't seem to understand GCSE level maths, including you; I wouldn't be quite so quick to proclaim membership as a good thing.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:07   #219
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What if just in front of the plane there's a series of black holes which gradually curve upwards at an ever-increasing rate in strength?
Black holes are everywhere.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:17   #220
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Black holes are everywhere.
Okay but what if the plane has an infinitely powerful anti-gravity generator onboard and is made of papier mache?
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:23   #221
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Re: A Plane Problem

If you jump to hyperspace in the 14th dimension you can avoid Blackholes altogether
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:24   #222
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
If you jump to hyperspace in the 14th dimension you can avoid Blackholes altogether
That's actually a myth, like the 10% of the brains thing.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 00:35   #223
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Re: A Plane Problem

Jesus H Christ.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 01:14   #224
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Re: A Plane Problem

The H stands for his middle name which is Horatio. Little known fact.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 02:13   #225
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Re: A Plane Problem

I thought it was Hernandez..
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 02:48   #226
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Re: A Plane Problem

What causes lift as supposed to forward thrust is the passing of air over the airfoils.

If the plane is stationary on the "runway" but thrusting forward, it will still fail to take off as the air around it is not moving at any significant speed.

I do apologize for the fact that this point will have been made many times before.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 02:49   #227
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Re: A Plane Problem

enjoyed this thread, maybe not an amazing concentration of inteligence but a pretty fair show in the "physics jokes" department.

(with MrL_JaKiri to the death on all physics issues from this day forward!)
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 02:50   #228
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by BesigedB
What causes lift as supposed to forward thrust is the passing of air over the airfoils.

If the plane is stationary on the "runway" but thrusting forward, it will still fail to take off as the air around it is not moving at any significant speed.

I do apologize for the fact that this point will have been made many times before.
read the thread dude, its a rollercoaster of up's and downs where you end up agreeing wholeheartedly with MrL_JaKiri.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 03:01   #229
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Tyrant
read the thread dude, its a rollercoaster of up's and downs where you end up agreeing wholeheartedly with MrL_JaKiri.
  • The plane will take off on a conventional length runway that happens to be a conveyor belt, as the wheels will spin faster.
  • An other plane being held stationary on a theoretical treadmill will not.
That's how I understand this thread to have concluded.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 09:14   #230
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Re: A Plane Problem

Conclusion #2 has been plucked out of satan's own arse.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 12:02   #231
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm not sure if a thread where (at least initially) half the participants don't seem to understand how the wheels of a plane work is a good candidate for world-implosion via excessive concentrations of intelligence.
Then perhaps the vast amounts of Jakiri's intelligence and others' stupidity will make the world spin around at infinite speed and break down under centrifugal forces. It's the same concept as when you tie a piece of buttered toast on the back of a cat to make anti-gravity.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 18:45   #232
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Then perhaps the vast amounts of Jakiri's intelligence and others' stupidity will make the world spin around at infinite speed and break down under centrifugal forces. It's the same concept as when you tie a piece of buttered toast on the back of a cat to make anti-gravity.
The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 18:53   #233
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
but...


but...


That would make the cat dirty!
And no one likes a dirty pussy.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 19:19   #234
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
I've seen cat's not land on there feet, and there wasn't a piece of buttered toast taped to there backside.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:02   #235
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Re: A Plane Problem

I have a question!!!

Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.

Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:05   #236
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Re: A Plane Problem

using common logic, not fysics, I'd say he'd land in the same place.
The aircolomn he's hovering in moves with the earth as it goes, was it not the case then going to the states from the UK would be cheaper/more expensive then vice versa because of the earth movement, this is clearly not the case, hence I apply this logic also to your question.
The logic is not robust and I think even flawed, but the answer is I think correct.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:11   #237
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Re: A Plane Problem

I'm staying out of this one, except to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
was it not the case then going to the states from the UK would be cheaper/more expensive then vice versa because of the earth movement, this is clearly not the case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:15   #238
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Re: A Plane Problem

Oh I am wrong on that one!

However, I still think the helicopter will stay above the same spot. If you want to see the earth's movement TomKat I suggest you build a Pendulum of Foucault.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:16   #239
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Re: A Plane Problem

Clearly they would have landed on their feet if there HAD been a piece of buttered toast taped to their backside.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:19   #240
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I have a question!!!

Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.

Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
Even ignoring the air movement, the helicopter would probably only move imperceptably as the helicopter would still be held in its place by gravity. Gravity isn't affected by not being attached to the ground.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:22   #241
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Even ignoring the air movement, the helicopter would probably only move imperceptably as the helicopter would still be held in its place by gravity. Gravity isn't affected by not being attached to the ground.
Oh god help me
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:27   #242
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Oh god help me
Surely, didn't you know that everything in your house is held in place by gravitystrings?!?! How else would it stay in place while we are flying through space at a gazillion miles per hour?!
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:40   #243
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Re: A Plane Problem

infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:46   #244
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
Wouldn't it then fall through the ground to the Earths core and with it's giant weight have such a massive gravatational pull that the universe would be reabsorbed into one dense mass?
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 20:47   #245
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Re: A Plane Problem

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Wouldn't it then fall through the ground to the Earths core and with it's giant weight have such a massive gravatational pull that the universe would be reabsorbed into one dense mass?
.... yes... sort of. The earth would essentially be pulled into the helicopter and then onwards into one big mass.

... but it still wouldnt take off.
The question itself is stupid anyway
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 22:06   #246
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Re: A Plane Problem

I'd just like to point out....WE'RE ON THE 6TH PAGE FOR ****ING OUT LOUD.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 22:46   #247
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
Don't be an ass
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 22:47   #248
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Re: A Plane Problem

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
Don't be an ass
Seriously tk if you'd manage to phrase that question poorer I'm pretty sure god himself would have come down from heaven and dropped an infinitely heavy rock he couldn't lift onto you.
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Unread 29 Dec 2006, 23:57   #249
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Re: A Plane Problem

Or have caused him to lose his hair.
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Unread 30 Dec 2006, 04:31   #250
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Re: A Plane Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I have a question!!!

Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.

Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
I think that's pretty much the same question as "I jump up vertically in a train, do I land in the same place?"
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