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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 21:43   #101
Deepflow
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Re: travler

I wish I had thought of making Travler as my gimmick before he ever got here
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 21:44   #102
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Maybe more like: If man can be compared to stars as stars can be compared to the universe then man could be compared to the universe.

Does that make it a little easier?
That's like saying you can put a 2/3 domino next to a 3/4 domino, and a 4/5 domino next to a 3/4 domino, so you can put a 2/3 domino next to a 4/5 domino.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 21:49   #103
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Thats not really an if/then type statement. Should be more like:

If a human has two legs and all humans are alike then all humans have two legs.

Maybe more like: If man can be compared to stars as stars can be compared to the universe then man could be compared to the universe.

Does that make it a little easier?
I'm stabbing you in the eye through the internet. Don't blame me though, god made me do it


PS nod, i hope you deleted that post because you realised that was my ****ing point.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 21:50   #104
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If a human has two legs and all humans are alike then all humans have two legs.

Maybe more like: If man can be compared to stars as stars can be compared to the universe then man could be compared to the universe.
Its possible for all objects in the universe to have been created without the universe itself having been created. For instance, imagine that a new object is created every 10 minutes and disappears 30 minutes later. Then at any given time, it would be true that all existing objects had been created, but it wouldnt necessarily follow that there was some finite time at which this creation process started.

Your logic seems quite close to saying "If I bought all the individual parts of my computer, then I must have bought my computer". But this isnt really true; if my PC has been built up over several years with a new graphics card added last month, a new harddrive the month before that, then it wouldnt necessarily be correct to say "I bought my computer", because in some contexts there would imply "in one go, at the same time".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
PS nod, i hope you deleted that post because you realised that was my ****ing point.
I deleted it because I think it was wrong and the English language is more subtle than I thought :o

Last edited by Nodrog; 11 Apr 2006 at 22:23.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:14   #105
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
The lord works in mysterious ways indeed
That tickled me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
presumably this has to be mainstream news not 'omg 2 penguins were killed by an eskimo last night at 2am. local police chief Iwakoa Sanjo has said that the brutal murderers will be brought to justice snow style'.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:16   #106
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I deleted it because I think it was wrong and the English language is more subtle than I thought
Oh the language games we play
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:21   #107
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Oh the language games we play
travler's idea of 'playing' is the same as gary glitter's
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:23   #108
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That's like saying you can put a 2/3 domino next to a 3/4 domino, and a 4/5 domino next to a 3/4 domino, so you can put a 2/3 domino next to a 4/5 domino.
Yes you could put it there but not if your playing dominos. Dominos as a game has clearly defined rules and the pieces are absolute.

But what man is clearly defined or absolute? Each man or woman has it's own DNA, retinal pattern, finger print, voice pattern, brainwave pattern, and heartbeat rythems.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:24   #109
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Re: travler

There is no cure for religious fundamentalism.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:27   #110
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
There is no cure for religious fundamentalism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
presumably this has to be mainstream news not 'omg 2 penguins were killed by an eskimo last night at 2am. local police chief Iwakoa Sanjo has said that the brutal murderers will be brought to justice snow style'.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:37   #111
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Yes you could put it there but not if your playing dominos. Dominos as a game has clearly defined rules and the pieces are absolute.

But what man is clearly defined or absolute? Each man or woman has it's own DNA, retinal pattern, finger print, voice pattern, brainwave pattern, and heartbeat rythems.
surely then each man is clearly defined and absolute, so your point is invalid.
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Unread 11 Apr 2006, 22:42   #112
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
surely then each man is clearly defined and absolute, so your point is invalid.
don't use logic!

he hates logic!

he's transcended it after all.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 03:44   #113
Travler
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
surely then each man is clearly defined and absolute, so your point is invalid.
Sorry uncompleted thought. Absolute in relation to each other. Dominos can only be this or that ect. while people can be quite varied when it comes to thoughts, looks, emotions. ect.

Thanks for all the neg reps folks, Bless You. Proof that either you hate believers or your fighting with your own doubts about becomming a believer.

BTW is there anything that that anyone would like me to pray for them about?
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 03:56   #114
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Sorry uncompleted thought. Absolute in relation to each other. Dominos can only be this or that ect. while people can be quite varied when it comes to thoughts, looks, emotions. ect.
It's etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
presumably this has to be mainstream news not 'omg 2 penguins were killed by an eskimo last night at 2am. local police chief Iwakoa Sanjo has said that the brutal murderers will be brought to justice snow style'.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 04:49   #115
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
God created man in his own image for some unknown reason

or

Man created god in his own image to cope with fear of the unknown

Religion and god are entiarly man made things to cope with our own failing and our biggest fear. We are fightened of what we dont understand and cant quantify. In By gone years religion was there to help people get through there day to day lives. It provided answers to some unanswered questions and gave people who that there was something better after life. Which was pretty shitty by todays standards.

Now we have a greater understanding of the universe around us and our place in it. Due to the advances we have made as a species. Yet some people seem to want to cling desperatly to the hope that they are so much more than an animal. That they are the creatures of some greater power. It makes me sad and makes them more than slightly egotistical.

Oww well thus is the nature of the animals we are. If religion gives you hope and comfort then thats great but please dont preach to us none beleavers
If you saw a friend about to walk in front of a moving bus would you say nothing or try to prevent your friend from being killed or maimed? Most would try to help the friend.

If I believe what I say I do then why would I not want to help people from getting burned. I may not be able to convince others but I can show that I care.
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Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 05:24   #116
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
This is funny. I almost wish this was true. Being a parent of 3 kids is really taxing and keeps me from having enough time to be BC/DC/MO in an alliance.

I hear the word "I want" about a hundred times a day.
200 times less than when you were a BC/DC/MO in an alliance......
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 05:54   #117
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If you saw a friend about to walk in front of a moving bus would you say nothing or try to prevent your friend from being killed or maimed? Most would try to help the friend.
It's much more complicated than that. You God Botherers are always over-simplifying. Before I can decide whether or not to use my super-powers to save my friend I need to know the answers to some very important questions.

1) Do I owe this person money?
2) Does this person have cool stuff his family won't miss but I can use?
3) Is his girlfriend hot?
4) (Is she creeped out by/Does she know about*) me stalking her?
5) Do likely funeral dates fit in with my plans for the forthcoming days?

*It is invariably one of these alternatives. Please delete as appropriate.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 08:11   #118
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If you saw a friend about to walk in front of a moving bus would you say nothing or try to prevent your friend from being killed or maimed? Most would try to help the friend.

If I believe what I say I do then why would I not want to help people from getting burned. I may not be able to convince others but I can show that I care.
Yes, most may try to help a friend.

But I do not like you. Preaching is not necessary, nor is it wanted. I would rather my nostrils and ears were filled with Yahwe semen, then see you preach.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 08:55   #119
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Thanks for all the neg reps folks, Bless You. Proof that either you hate believers or your fighting with your own doubts about becomming a believer.
Are you going through all the logical fallacies one by one or something? If so can you please find somewhere else to do it?
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 09:18   #120
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Yes you could put it there but not if your playing dominos.
Dominos has a logical structure, much like the universe has physical rules.

You've also ignored the dichotomy between "creation" and "conscious creation". A watch was created with the goal of creating a watch; your average rock was created by merely the application of physical laws, and noone really cares if it exists or not. Why can't you just as easily say, using your "logic", that a rock was created by mere application of unthinking forces, therefore there was no active thought of creation involved at the start of the universe?

Thank you for at last replying to one of my posts, although I suspect that was because it was the first one you could (easily) completely ignore the point of when making a half-arsed reply.

To be fair that kind of Logical Fallacy is only fallacious if you accept that their point 1 is invalid; for example, given the insane amount of evidence for evolution, which can be brought to hand pretty easily, people denying that it can take place or does take place must be either lazy or stupid.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 09:38   #121
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
To be fair that kind of Logical Fallacy is only fallacious if you accept that their point 1 is invalid; for example, given the insane amount of evidence for evolution, which can be brought to hand pretty easily, people denying that it can take place or does take place must be either lazy or stupid.
That's what it says in the link dude...



You don't really read anyone else's posts do you science boy?
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 09:57   #122
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That's what it says in the link dude...
You don't really read anyone else's posts do you science boy?
Actually, it doesn't. It says

Quote:
This arguments is fallacious because either of the first two premises (on which the whole argument is based) could be wrong
The position held being incorrect is not a requirement for the fallacy as they describe it, only the possibility that it can be incorrect - which is the same as having no correctness requirement at all.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 10:06   #123
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Re: travler

It's an informal fallacy.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 10:35   #124
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Re: travler

Ok.
In my mind, whether the universe was created by something or created itself or has always been there, isn't relevant.
Personally, I'm an agnostic (the evidence is insufficient) but an athiest when it comes to organised religion.

This is the bit that interests me. It's one thing saying "I think something created the universe" and something else saying "I think the Christian God created the universe". I have great trouble understanding why people back themselves into this "I am Christian" corner.

So Travler, Why do you believe that it was the Christian God (and nothing else) that created the universe. Why are you a christian?
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 10:37   #125
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Ok.
In my mind, whether the universe was created by something or created itself or has always been there, isn't relevant.
Personally, I'm an agnostic (the evidence is insufficient) but an athiest when it comes to organised religion.

This is the bit that interests me. It's one thing saying "I think something created the universe" and something else saying "I think the Christian God created the universe". I have great trouble understanding why people back themselves into this "I am Christian" corner.

So Travler, Why do you believe that it was the Christian God (and nothing else) that created the universe. Why are you a christian?
"Cultural momentum."
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 11:50   #126
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Re: travler

I think it's a bit sad that you're raping a man over what he believes. Disagree, and get over it. He might not be the most subtle, but at least he's sincere. Better than the foppish tongue-lashing (some of) you lot seem to be indulging in.

Oh, and Travler, I'd advise you to give the proselytizing a break. Wait until they least expect it and POUNCE.

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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 12:37   #127
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Re: travler

Beliefs can prove very dangerous, especially when they're founded on such a fount of irrationality.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 12:38   #128
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
given the insane amount of evidence for evolution, which can be brought to hand pretty easily, people denying that it can take place or does take place must be either lazy or stupid.
If what you said was true then why is evolution still a theory and not a natural law?
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You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 12:46   #129
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If what you said was true then why is evolution still a theory and not a natural law?
All threads should be automatically locked when they reach this point.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 12:49   #130
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I think it's a bit sad that you're raping a man over what he believes. Disagree, and get over it. He might not be the most subtle, but at least he's sincere.
You know who else was sincere in his beliefs about jews lol


A person's beliefs and values are the most defining parts of their character, so complaining about being judged on them is pretty silly.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 12:54   #131
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If what you said was true then why is evolution still a theory and not a natural law?
There is no god
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 13:03   #132
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Re: travler

Because there are a few things that need clarifying, but that list is shrinking, unlike any of yours. (Unless its a list of logical fallacies to break amirite?)
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 13:22   #133
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If what you said was true then why is evolution still a theory and not a natural law?
What is natural law? Are you referring to mathematical constents such as pi and Plank's constant?

If so, evolution cannot be mathematically defined as these numbers can be. Without the passage of millions of years, evolution cannot be proven to be any more than a theory.


At least it can be proven though
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 13:52   #134
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
If what you said was true then why is evolution still a theory and not a natural law?
Because Laws only involve one statement of mathematical relation, and are as such much more primitive, and inferior, to theory.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 13:53   #135
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Without the passage of millions of years, evolution cannot be proven to be any more than a theory.
Incorrect in both interpretations of "proven". A first for this thread!
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 13:57   #136
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Re: travler



and this is why I don't do science!
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 14:13   #137
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
What is natural law?
don't you do jurisprudence?
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 14:54   #138
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I think it's a bit sad that you're raping a man over what he believes. Disagree, and get over it. He might not be the most subtle, but at least he's sincere. Better than the foppish tongue-lashing (some of) you lot seem to be indulging in.
“Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1)
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 14:56   #139
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
“Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1)
What sort of shitty bible do you have?
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 15:14   #140
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What sort of shitty bible do you have?
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)”
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 15:19   #141
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
“Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1)
Amen, brother! Preach it!
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 15:19   #142
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)”
Hebrew is just a fancy name for filthy jew.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 15:21   #143
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Hebrew is just a fancy name for filthy jew.
May they who love you be like the sun when it rises in its strength. Judges 5:31
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 15:23   #144
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Re: travler

Judge is just a fancy name for uppity fascist.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 16:02   #145
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
don't you do jurisprudence?
Nope, not at this shitty university!
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 16:07   #146
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Re: travler

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Nope, not at this shitty university!
I love you so much I went to all the trouble of finding a wiki link for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Finnis

(P.S. don't read the wiki page actually called 'natural law' because it is just wrong)
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 16:14   #147
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Re: travler

Quote:

Briefly in Natural Law and Natural Rights, Finnis's ethics focuses on seven intrinsically valuable basic goods: life, knowledge, play, aesthetic experience (or beauty), sociability (or friendship), practical reasonableness and religion. However in his latter works these have been partially reworked. These basic goods are self-evidently "good" and cannot be deducted. They are incommensurable with one another.
what a load of nonsense.



edit: oh wait he was a Catholic, how surprising.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 16:32   #148
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Re: travler

Quote:
Finnis has been a vigorous opponent of abortion rights and of extended civil rights (including protection from anti-discrimination laws and the right to marry) to homosexuals. Finnis testified on behalf of the state of Colorado in its attempt to prohibit the extension of anti-discrimination rights to homosexuals. Finnis, like most natural lawyers of the Catholic tradition, considers all sexual activity that is not between married persons, "of the reproductive kind", and done without birth control devices, to be inherently immoral. His arguments for these views are, however, significantly more sophisticated than what one might unreflectingly expect from a 'natural law' position. Finnis thoroughly rejects what he calls 'perverted faculty' arguments, the sort of argument which claims, for instance, that the only legitimate sexual activity is reproductive sexual activity precisely because human sex organs are naturally 'for' reproduction. Finnis accepts the standard objections to such arguments, and argues for the traditional Catholic position by focusing on the role that sexual activity plays in a good human life.
What a knob-cheese. Thanks for the link Yahwe, I did look up natural law on Wikipedia but the article's useless, as you found.
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Unread 12 Apr 2006, 16:42   #149
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Re: travler

oh he's a nutter.

natural lawyers are as bad as Travler, which is, I assume, why he used the phrase.

(jurisprudentially I am a Kelsen-ite )
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 15:42   #150
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Re: travler

sorry for the bump.

But all those people saying the universe has set laws are wrong. There are no definat laws or rules in the universe only those we try to define from here on earth. All religions are based on a different set of laws and ideals also created by man.

To say that religion is definatly wrong would be a flawed statement as you do not nor will you ever have all the information. However as there is no evidence of a higher being/power it would seem likely to be wrong. All the evidence of 'god' is based on unaswered questions.
'But where did the universe come from if it wasnt made by god'

The ownes(is this a word?) is on the religion types to prove the existance of there god. You cannot expect people to beleave somthing is true when you offer up no physical evidence or proof of any kind. To beleave in somthing soley because you dont know the answer seems crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler
About my friend walking in front of a bus
If my friend truily beleaved that this was the right thing to do and would enrich his life what right do i have to try and stop him? Personally i dont feel the need in telling other people how they should live there lifes.

Personally i have no problem with people being religious. If it makes you happy then role with it. But you dont have a right to preach to people who dont beleave the same as you. Claiming they are wrong and then being unable to offer up any evidence to support your self.

If you can offer up enough proof as to your THEORY of god then great. But untill then it will always be a theory without any evidence to back it up.
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