[Discuss] An ingame way of figuring out what alliance an attacker is in

[Banned]

Similar to fleet scans, a covert operation that reveals what tag your attacker is in. It may require some balancing to work, but I think it's a rather trivial thing to add as few planets risking serious incoming will go up the covop tree early on.

Edit: Put some emphasis on a few words I thought people were missing.

[Orion Treet]

Well, it couldnt be a scan early on cause don't think anyone would want that, alliances would have eachothers coord lists in no-time. And if its one of the last ones most already have (incomplete, but a good deal) of hostile alliances coord lists.

[DukePaul]

If it is to be a covop/scan, then it need to be high up the techtree somewhere (atleast I presume so), but then no one will get it before late game, where all coords are known anyway. On the other hand, if it comes out too early it will be too powerful.

I like the way intel works now, relaying on human skill and no ingame mechanic dedicated to the task - but perhaps that's just me.

[DrunkenViking]

Oi...bad idea. Big alliances has benefitted from intel-work allways, this would make all alliances "puclic" too quick. It doesnt take that long to figure out what alliance a planet is, and if intel should be easier to gain the round would most likely stagnate faster.

[Conall]

I think it is a good late tree cov op.

[Kal]

if this was done i'd have it as the final covert op, it could also perhaps reveal more than just the alliance, hows about a history of alliances the person has been in, and his in game alliance nick. this could also pave the way to some kind of offical in game arbiter type system that could automatically track people who exile around etc. I think if this was correctly balenced it would signicifcantly help the smaller alliances withotu giving the bigger alliances any real problems.

[Remy]

Originally Posted by DukePaul

I like the way intel works now, relaying on human skill and no ingame mechanic dedicated to the task - but perhaps that's just me.

seconded

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Remy

seconded

external skill will allways improve thigns though, this allows the smaller and less skilled people a small boost.

also if its a covert op it would actually take quite a long time to get the info and would only really be useful for verifying things rather than as a primary source (unless the alliance has a lot of covert oppers)

[Dingo]

Crappy idea. May as well just have all co-ords listed with nicks and alliance as a new page.

[Dingo]

Please add online times as well.

[Orion Treet]

Yep, alliance, online times, alliance history, heck, even the mails explaining why he got kicken, and while were at it why not entire mailbox?

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Dingo

Crappy idea. May as well just have all co-ords listed with nicks and alliance as a new page.

u woudl knwo perfectly well that this is nothing like that at all if u knew how covert ops work

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by Orion Treet

Yep, alliance, online times, alliance history, heck, even the mails explaining why he got kicken, and while were at it why not entire mailbox?

I'd like a cov op that displays login codes and journals as well. O and credit card number...

[Kal]

if people don;t behave and discuss this idea properly i might just go and approve it....

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by Kal

if people don;t behave and discuss this idea properly i might just go and approve it....

For me this is an invitation to misbehave...

[Kal]

no one has actually come up with a good arguement against jesters suggestion providing that its the last covert op in the tech tree

[Alessio]

bleh.. Lets be honest, that would force every1 in a decent alliance to make mass security centers.. it would be made an priority in the alliances I think.. instead of other buildings... making covert ops way more difficult.. if not impossible.. in theorie...

[mist]

the large alliances already know who everyone is anyway, so not it wouldn't. it'd just give the smaller players a clue as to what's going on.

tbh, i'd decline it on the grounds that it's not actually going to have any effect on the game and is therefore not worth the coding time.

[Kal]

i think it could help the smaller alliances, and tbh i expect it would take veyr little time to code

[mist]

how?

"oh noes, i'm under attack by <large alliance>. knowing which large alliance will make it much easier for me to get defence!"

right.

[Kal]

thye migth find theyh are getting attacked by another small alliance that they can do something about

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Dingo

Crappy idea. May as well just have all co-ords listed with nicks and alliance as a new page.

I take it you actually finished the covop tree this round then? Early on as well? And you were able to covert op people who attacked you regularly?

[Forest]

When I first saw this, I immedietly thought 'what a stupid idea'.

However I ahve now had time to think about it.

Basically, all top alliances have everyones co-ords at some point anyway, so it wouldnt be affecting that much, and will make the smaller players feel more informed.

I would be for this idea, assuming you would get the scan available at say, tick 500 (any sooner, and u start affecting the big alliances intel systems, which have been fine tuned over 13 rounds, and would be bad.
Also, ingame nick showing is a complete waste of time, as all top alliances would just make up random nicks, and have it linked to there tools, whereas small alliances would be affected.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Forest

I would be for this idea, assuming you would get the scan available at say, tick 500 (any sooner, and u start affecting the big alliances intel systems, which have been fine tuned over 13 rounds, and would be bad.
Also, ingame nick showing is a complete waste of time, as all top alliances would just make up random nicks, and have it linked to there tools, whereas small alliances would be affected.

Just to reiterate. It's not a cocking scan. It's a cocking covert operation. I don't think scans would be balancable at all. One big attack on a top planet with too many amps and all of the sudden your entire alliance list is out. No, to be balanced this needs to be a covert operation.

[Forest]

Yes, change my wording 'scan' to 'cov op' and everything i said stands as valid i think.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Banned

Just to reiterate. It's not a cocking scan. It's a cocking covert operation. I don't think scans would be balancable at all. One big attack on a top planet with too many amps and all of the sudden your entire alliance list is out. No, to be balanced this needs to be a covert operation.

eh. where's the difference? in most cases knowing one attackers alliance will tell you all others' with 90% certainty.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Envious

eh. where's the difference? in most cases knowing one attackers alliance will tell you all others' with 90% certainty.

I'd say that's a defference of about 10%.

[Judge]

bad idea.

U cov op someone find out their alliance, and then news scan them, see who they have been defending for the last XX number of ticks, then promptly news scan all the people shown up in the scan.

Voila a whole alliance is potentially revealed.

[mist]

by the time this becomes available, the decent alliances will know who everyone is anyway. i can't see it making any difference to anyone who'll care about it.

[Conall]

QUOTE=Judge]bad idea.

U cov op someone find out their alliance, and then news scan them, see who they have been defending for the last XX number of ticks, then promptly news scan all the people shown up in the scan.

Voila a whole alliance is potentially revealed.[/quote]
Ermm - that is pretty much how it works now for the larger alliances, with a bit of statistical analysis thrown in, but not much. So why is it so bad?

Originally Posted by mist

by the time this becomes available, the decent alliances will know who everyone is anyway. i can't see it making any difference to anyone who'll care about it.

I would think it would make a difference to small aliiances, even some individual players, and I am sure they care.

[Gerbie]

I'd prefer seeing it on fleet analysis (which also is only available late in the round for most planets and can only be done by the planet under attack). If it were a covert operation that would facilitate specialized Cov Op planets. I don't think that would improve the game.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

I'd prefer seeing it on fleet analysis (which also is only available late in the round for most planets and can only be done by the planet under attack). If it were a covert operation that would facilitate specialized Cov Op planets. I don't think that would improve the game.

we could make a covert op that only works on incoming fleets...

[mist]

Originally Posted by Conall

I would think it would make a difference to small aliiances, even some individual players, and I am sure they care.

i've not been in a small alliance for a while, but back when i was we didn't care who was attacking us, just that they were. possibly things have changed, but i'm not quite sure as to why this would have

[Judge]

Pretty much irrelevant who is attacking you small or large alliance?

the question is can it be defended ?

I cant see the cov op (as described) or any other type of scan or cov op being usefull as far as getting defence is concerned ?

[demiGOD]

i'd say tag everybody's planet on the last 300 ticks or something.. but then again - although like mist said, itll help a lot of small alliances, and also imo might not even affect the bigger alliances - it might lose the interest in the game for not trying to improve alliance intel and operations anymore thus stagnating the whole universe and might also advertise 'bashing' to a lot of people to a point where it might even help the bigger alliances to win the round more than the smaller ones

[Zeus]

I'm all for this. Especially, for the smaller alliances and individual players.
I believe a player shouldnt be embarrassed to hide his alliance tag.

[Orion Treet]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

i'd say tag everybody's planet on the last 300 ticks or something.. but then again - although like mist said, itll help a lot of small alliances, and also imo might not even affect the bigger alliances - it might lose the interest in the game for not trying to improve alliance intel and operations anymore thus stagnating the whole universe and might also advertise 'bashing' to a lot of people to a point where it might even help the bigger alliances to win the round more than the smaller ones

Don't matter how much you tweak the game, the large and established allies will ALWAYS win, or with best players as we've seen with 1up. We shouldn't be concentrating on how we should get small alliances to win but to prevent them from being bashed so they can play and grow and have fun.

[Judge]

I recall way back in the dim and distant past that Tags were visible when you looked at a galaxy, perhaps if that was brought back, all this sneaking and spying would be irrellevant?

[jerome]

why would we want to make the current intel system irrelevant?


Onto the suggestion by Jester itself, yeah, I like it. It won't really make too much of a difference as far as I can see.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I'm all for this. Especially, for the smaller alliances and individual players.
I believe a player shouldnt be embarrassed to hide his alliance tag.

Embarresed?? I just dont want to get bashed by an hostile alliance....

[Judge]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

why would we want to make the current intel system irrelevant?

My reasoning :-

Does spying/intel etc add to or detract from game play?

I think it detracts, as it is not available to the same degree for every player.

Also if everyone knew which planets were in which alliance from tick start, it would mean everyone would know where their enemies/friends were.

[jerome]

It obviously adds to the gameplay as you need to expand on the basic information you derive ingame and need to extend via relying on your own resources outgame.

"Also if everyone knew which planets were in which alliance from tick start, it would mean everyone would know where their enemies/friends were."
is that supposed to be a good thing? because i'd rather my enemies & myself have to work out by extricate newsie-ing and "proper" intel work to figure out what alliance my planet is rather than just plainly stating in the game before the round even started.

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

It obviously adds to the gameplay as you need to expand on the basic information you derive ingame and need to extend via relying on your own resources outgame.

"Also if everyone knew which planets were in which alliance from tick start, it would mean everyone would know where their enemies/friends were."
is that supposed to be a good thing? because i'd rather my enemies & myself have to work out by extricate newsie-ing and "proper" intel work to figure out what alliance my planet is rather than just plainly stating in the game before the round even started.

It adds a boring task to the game. The only reason I waste my precious time on it is because it is a necessity.

[Judge]

< _ryzekiel_> I am making a wild guess, that you like me are in a fairly decent alliance?

And as such we have the advantage of the intel systems within our alliance, we get the opportunity to see who is attacking/defending almost from the very start of the game, unlike your average new / lone/ small alliance player who would only see incoming or intel at less frequent intervals, so is at a dissadvantage in regard to access to the information.

all I am suggesting is a level playing field for all players, it wouldnt matter to the "Big Boys" as there intel is fairly upto date by tick 150 anyway.

[mist]

i think showing tags automatically would be a mistake. imo, it would result in newbies being bashed sooner and harder.

[Envious]

the fun of PA is and always has been in the "meta game" more than in the game itself. the game itself is far too primitive to be interesting for a longer time, it's all this community, alliance, wars, spying, even AD trolling stuff that makes it interesting. if you remove this "distraction", players might find out the game is quite boring actually.

[Orion Treet]

Agreed Envious, though if it would be one of the very last, preferably the last covert op/scan don't think it could do to much harm. The large alliances will need intel way before you're that far down the techtree, and it would help smaller alliances later in the round.

[Alessio]

I agree with Judge..

Originally Posted by mist

i think showing tags automatically would be a mistake. imo, it would result in newbies being bashed sooner and harder.

Only noobs CAN and have reasons 2 attack newbies.. except in the beginning..
Its not like they have a wealth in value or roids anyway...

I dont like the idea of a scan/covertop tho.. that shows that..

[hells]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I'm all for this. Especially, for the smaller alliances and individual players.
I believe a player shouldnt be embarrassed to hide his alliance tag.

yeh i mean its not like it will be a major problem, even if the big guys get the lil guys coords they cant attack them cus of the low values and so on, i for one would love to know who exactly is attacking me instead of some arse going "i cant disclose that information"

do it kal do it!

[Kal]

i am leaning towards this more and more.

my reasons:

1) big alliances know things anyway so are not affected
2) lots of medium level/up and coming alliances do not yet have good intel department so this would help them
3) though it may not help the individual it mat add some interest to them
4) I can't actually see any bad effects it can cause