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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:15   #1
lizardking
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Joker?

heh...

Seems like there's a new dominating force in our daily shrinkin universe.
So I'm wondering how alliance with less (or equal) to 5 top30 planets can be outgrowing every1 else this fast, even it's own allies.

It's starting to look like Elysium is taking over PaX like hum.... LDK did back in r9,5
Im not really up 2 date with my dying online activity

so enlighten me plz..
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:18   #2
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Re: Joker?

I know what replies are about to follow!

shame on you
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LCH is too far away, now they are the same roid amout as 1up
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:25   #3
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Re: Joker?

I have to salute ELYSIUM! They've pretty much -always- been my idols in the planetarion community!

[22:15] <[Ely]cheerios> hmm, if Elysium wins this round, that'd be the exception of other ounds winners, who cheated.

[22:16] <[Ely]cheerios> we're as pure as young virgins on some distant innocent land


- Tuhoaja, Dragons high command

never betrayed OR injustly treated by elysium in 3 different rounds

never made to look bad in public by Elysium for no reason

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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:26   #4
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Re: Joker?

since everyone else seems to like to talk about cheating, i wont.
This could have been Ely merging with another alliance or something....
just making conversation O_o
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:38   #5
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Re: Joker?

if i knew what u meant I'd join in on the convo
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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
LCH is too far away, now they are the same roid amout as 1up
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 02:43   #6
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Re: Joker?

Heh Chimpie look behind you I think there's a girl on your bed again
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 03:13   #7
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Re: Joker?

lies..... besides, i have no fleet to launch now.
besides, i'm not hinting about anything, i just don't want 50000000 threads about cheating.... so i just post some bullshit to confuse the other posters.... i know you don't run around merging with all universe.

/me looks at his bed anyway....
*sniffle* no girl.....
/me runs to find a bottle of rum

And Auro, why you not on irc matey?
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 03:34   #8
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
I have to salute ELYSIUM! They've pretty much -always- been my idols in the planetarion community!

[22:15] <[Ely]cheerios> hmm, if Elysium wins this round, that'd be the exception of other ounds winners, who cheated.

[22:16] <[Ely]cheerios> we're as pure as young virgins on some distant innocent land


- Tuhoaja, Dragons high command

never betrayed OR injustly treated by elysium in 3 different rounds

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Never heard of you.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 03:43   #9
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Re: Joker?

erm yeah cheaters, they are like vacuum cleaners

but in other news...liz and jurgie, will u come to meh bday?
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 03:58   #10
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Re: Joker?

Apparently alot fo Ely have bin abusing this bug that PA Team are now trying to fix. Although thats just what ive herd, and i dont know exactly what this bug did.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 04:08   #11
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Re: Joker?

If you cache all documents in IE you could:
launch your fleet
press the back button
and click return
and you would have your ships back eta 0, even if you landed on your target and lost your ships.

btw. this i've heard from someone who heard it from someone who know someone who admitted to using this bug.... so if my info is inaccurate pls don't shoot me.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 04:09   #12
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Re: Joker?

It probably has something with Ely treating it's members equally and not doing an "all-out" strategy at the risk of it's smaller members.

So all members are of a decent size, contributing to an overall large score.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 04:15   #13
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Re: Joker?

I remember Ely as always being the "good" alliance like an nice elderly alliance, but this round is making them look like dirt, due to all the cheating and cheating accusations ect....
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 04:20   #14
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Re: Joker?

The winning alliance always gets flamed. People don't like losing. It's just a fact of life.

If you're doing better than someone else, it must be because you cheat/escort/farm/get donated to. Obviously.

"Backstabbers" is the favourite troll retort for an alliance doing well, though.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 04:24   #15
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Re: Joker?

Well my Ely GC has abused the bug and has even admitted to it, although his actions do not reflect the overall alliance. He is why the ticks have stopped after a meeting with PA Team and sum alliance HCs sum hours ago. Apprently Ely HC(s) left quite pissed, i dont no if more then 1 did as i wasnt at the meeting

<[FAnG]LEFF> ely hc left the meeting totally pissed
<[FAnG]LEFF> <[Ely]Racer> seems we got 3 bithces in here.. Wp Fang and Dragons.. I smell somethin weird.. and also Part at the same time..
<[FAnG]LEFF> * Parts: [Ely]Racer
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 06:30   #16
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Re: Joker?

Don't spoil the fun for others. They like to think (naturally) that Elysium can't be on top cause they are better, they have to cheat systematically.

What a surprise it's mostly FAnG and Dragon peons whining.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 07:28   #17
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardking
Seems like there's a new dominating force in our daily shrinkin universe.
So I'm wondering how alliance with less (or equal) to 5 top30 planets can be outgrowing every1 else this fast, even it's own allies.
It's called running /an alliance/.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
- Tuhoaja, Dragons high command
never made to look bad in public by Elysium for no reason
If you are going to post private logs from a conversation from a bitter DaKing whom was denied into Elysium, you might atleast post them unedited and in context.

Session Start: Tue Oct 21 23:04:28 2003
Session Ident: DaKing-
[23:04] Session Ident: DaKing- ([email protected])
...
[23:13] <DaKing-> yes Kaitux
[23:13] <DaKing-> he won last round
[23:13] <[Ely]cheerios> really? ok.
[23:13] <DaKing-> yes
[23:13] <DaKing-> cheating
[23:13] <DaKing-> in LDK
[23:13] <DaKing-> bitches
[23:13] <[Ely]cheerios> how else? ;p
[23:13] <DaKing-> true
[23:13] <DaKing-> all winners cheat
[23:13] <DaKing-> nothing else to say
[23:13] <DaKing-> there is too much cheating around
[23:13] <[Ely]cheerios> hmm. but if Elysium wins this round, that'd be the exception.
[23:13] <DaKing-> also this round
[23:14] <DaKing-> lol
[23:14] <DaKing-> cheerios
[23:14] <DaKing-> ely cheat too
[23:14] <[Ely]cheerios> we're as pure as young virgins on some distant innocent land
[23:15] <DaKing-> hehe
[23:15] <DaKing-> all alliances has cheaters
[23:15] <DaKing-> and u know so
[23:15] <DaKing-> ppl providing their logins to gal members
[23:15] <DaKing-> etc.
[23:15] <[Ely]cheerios> maybe 1 here, 50 with fang
[23:15] <DaKing-> can be
[23:15] <[Ely]cheerios> fang is famous for gettin' closed down end of round
[23:15] <DaKing-> but I think it is more than u prolly know
[23:16] <DaKing-> for example I got 3 Dragons closed some days ago
...
Session Time: Wed Oct 22 00:00:00 2003
Session Close: Wed Oct 22 01:22:12 2003
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 07:53   #18
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guran
Don't spoil the fun for others. They like to think (naturally) that Elysium can't be on top cause they are better, they have to cheat systematically.

What a surprise it's mostly FAnG and Dragon peons whining.
Erm, how would you feel? FAnG is the alliance that fought hardest with Ely, and eventhough I still believe they deserve to be #1, it's no fun to find out that some of their top players have abused a bug which made FAnG lose some ships which we normally shouldn't have lost.

What's surprising about it that we complain there? Ofc eclipse won't complain, or ely, cause they didn't have to fight these pple.

Ely is on top due to their own skills yet we cannot deny what has been proven to us, that a certain ex-top planet abused the bug and several others aswell.

rgds Kj
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 08:18   #19
Guran
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Erm, how would you feel? FAnG is the alliance that fought hardest with Ely, and eventhough I still believe they deserve to be #1, it's no fun to find out that some of their top players have abused a bug which made FAnG lose some ships which we normally shouldn't have lost.

What's surprising about it that we complain there? Ofc eclipse won't complain, or ely, cause they didn't have to fight these pple.

Ely is on top due to their own skills yet we cannot deny what has been proven to us, that a certain ex-top planet abused the bug and several others aswell.

rgds Kj
Fair enough, I realize the frustration if someone lost ships due to anotherone exploiting a bug in game. I'm just annoyed that certain people takes things to alliance level if single members wherever exploits bugs or cheats for that matter. I know it must be difficult for some to stay away from the subject when one ely member was prooven to have exploited this bug. It's a great opportunity to whine and bitch at ely. I was only aware of one planet prooven of abusing this bug but you say you got proof of several?
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:21   #20
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Re: Joker?

Is it wrong of me to expect him to be deleted/closed for it??

Will they know if others abused it from logs or something??
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:37   #21
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventh
Is it wrong of me to expect him to be deleted/closed for it??

Will they know if others abused it from logs or something??
Yes it would be wrong. I read the user agreement briefly and I would say he did nothing "illegal". He exploited a bug. They will naturally undo what happened yesterday when this bug was abused but I doubt they will close planets or take other measures.

They will fix the bug as they did with the exile bug and we move on..
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:40   #22
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Re: Joker?

this was the first time there was evidence. too bad it's been found that late in the round :/
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:56   #23
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Re: Joker?

*yawn* exploiting a bug is not cheating .... its called being a smartass...now what really amazes me is what the hell were the beta-testers doin when they played the game????????????
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:57   #24
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Re: Joker?

Just to clear some things up.

Nether me nor FAnG is actually entitled to officially accuse entire Elysium for having abused this bug. We know that Walken was not the only one using it and not for the first time as well. But it was the first time we were prepared and able to produce a complete chain of evidence.
All our suspicious facts, presumptions or less stable evidences are irrelevant and I wont bring any of thise up outside our private channels.
The attackers who lost their ships at Walken`s planet will get them back and the tickers stopped because this bug needs to get fixed as soon as possible.

So these are not just weak charges or just "whining" like TomKat is trying to let it look like. Elysium profited a lot from this although it is impossible to make an exacty statement about the amount of practice yet

Still we will have to see how elysium will perform after this bug got abolished...
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 09:58   #25
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Re: Joker?

like your FanG planets didnt use it
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:05   #26
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearhead
like your FanG planets didnt use it
This is a perfect example for such a weak accuse I was talking about. All we knew about was the fact THAT it happend, not HOW it was possible... we assumed a hack of the database actually.

If you are able to show me the evidence of only 1 FAnG planet using this bug, I´ll personally make sure he gets kicked from my alliance.
But since every FAnG member knows our opinion about this I seriously doubt you have or will find any proofs.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:14   #27
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Re: Joker?

No winning alliance can ever claim to be clean. As far as their HC are aware they maybe clean but even they must admit that there is very likely to be at least one member within their ranks cheating and without knowing who/what they are doing you can't know who/what they have affected.

If you really want to guage it trying looking at which alliance cheats less
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:18   #28
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Planes_Walker
I remember Ely as always being the "good" alliance like an nice elderly alliance, but this round is making them look like dirt, due to all the cheating and cheating accusations ect....
Cheating happens in all alliances. Being on top just makes people wanna talk about Ely more. And guess what subjects are their favourite ones? :P
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:18   #29
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Re: Joker?

we do knw HOW it happened as someone explained it on these boards...anyway you kick for using a bug, for being smarter, for being able to find such a terrible piece of coding? lol, you a joke man....you should reward the one finding it, i really wonder what the beta-tested were doing....i myself have no idea who did use it and who didnt...cant be arsed...but i can tell you it comes like a suprise to me...anyway who cares...you are sloppy second all that matters is that your alliance doesnt win round 10 :-)

bye bye now
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:22   #30
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Re: Joker?

Is this for real? will pa not closed down walken?? wtf.????

how does ely feel about it? will they kick him for cheating then??
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:27   #31
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Re: Joker?

I myself would report any bug I find in the game asap. I did report it to Spinner when we found out about the priv gal bug (which I know some VGN members took advantage of), and I believe any decent alliance HC would do the same. We all want to play clean, and bug abusing isnt considered clean.
Any1 being a smartarse and abusing a bug to such and extend as this would at the very least get a very harsh reprimand from me. When bugs are found they should be reported.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:30   #32
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventh
Is this for real? will pa not closed down walken?? wtf.????
Walken hasn't cheated, only abused a bug. Lots of people have abused bugs before, such as the exile bug, hte recruit-bug (altho calling it a bug is strange - I was aware of it in the beta-rounds, and believed it was supposed to be that way. It became a bug when alliances found out they could hide their real score by setting their members to recruit level, atleast in the creators' eyes.) AFAIK the end user agreement doesnt say anything about bug-abusing = cheating, altho I could be mistaken here.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:31   #33
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Re: Joker?

my god look at all the morally right ppl, noone was complaining, now all of a sudden you all think its morally wrong....is this because ticks have stopped and you HC guys smell a roll back to maybe tick 15? hehheehe pathetic game...this is the last straw for me ... i aint playing no more rollback or not
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:34   #34
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEFF|pm
This is a perfect example for such a weak accuse I was talking about. All we knew about was the fact THAT it happend, not HOW it was possible... we assumed a hack of the database actually.

If you are able to show me the evidence of only 1 FAnG planet using this bug, I´ll personally make sure he gets kicked from my alliance.
But since every FAnG member knows our opinion about this I seriously doubt you have or will find any proofs.
I must say...if this was heavily used within elysium, playing in such an open community..in a shrinking, not to forget random universe where "everyone" knows eachother - and this kind of tactic only where known inside elysium - not exploited by a single FanG member..when considering its NOT cheating - heh..
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:36   #35
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearhead
my god look at all the morally right ppl, noone was complaining, now all of a sudden you all think its morally wrong....is this because ticks have stopped and you HC guys smell a roll back to maybe tick 15? hehheehe pathetic game...this is the last straw for me ...
And what do you know what I think? ANY cheating I find is reported asap, no matter who. (Altho multihunters are slow... the last one I reported is still listed as "waiting to be looked at" or something, and its a few weeks since I reported it). IMO any bug abuse is wrong. As Rumad said, this was abused knowingly over long time, which is just as bad as cheating

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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:39   #36
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
thats as bad as any of the other cheats who exploit things like farming for there own benefit.
You mean the pyramid farming done by Redbull in r5 was cheating? Its that kinds of revolutionary tactics which has been the fall of planetarion, i mean.. the lack of it - pure and simple.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:59   #37
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Re: Joker?

Well... the reason why elysium is in my teeths is that I saw 3 planets using the bug. All elysium... their rank2 and rank3 planet. The ones I ofc. follow the most. First thought it was a bug in scans or summit. Didn't understand what happened.
I can assure that none of Ðragons knew about the bug as how it worked etc. since I would have been informed about it.

However in this hc-pagroup meeting we had elysium hc opinion was like "Didn't every1 know about it? What's the big deal?"
comments.
I can get u logs later, must go to school now.
I just wonder if it was so well known by every1 how didn't me or Ðragons know it. (maybe we r just pathetic stupid players ;-))

And yes... I'm pissed to sum players (I'm sure not all of elysium knew it since it would have got leaked for sure) cause I put in shitloads of time into this game and my enemy get it's fleets home eta 0 (which I think is a quite benifit).
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 10:59   #38
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
I must say...if this was heavily used within elysium, playing in such an open community..in a shrinking, not to forget random universe where "everyone" knows eachother - and this kind of tactic only where known inside elysium - not exploited by a single FanG member..when considering its NOT cheating - heh..
Do I really have to repeat myself?

If you know about a FAnG player using this bug, please show me and make it public. If you indeed are not even playing round 10, therfore have no clue about what happend in this special case nor did take part on the meeting with MrBrick yesterday, I dont find any reasons why anyone should attach value to your opinion on this.

Sorry If i put it a bit too straight, but way too many peoples are already taking their own presumptions for granted, cause much confusion and more problems then we have already.

This goes for anyone posting here:

Please make sure you stay objective. Your frustration or suspicions are not needed here
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:06   #39
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Re: Joker?

Just define the biggest cheater of them all, and the universe will make sure he doesn't win the round - PA team or no PA team involved.


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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:06   #40
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Its cheating if you benefit unfairly at the expense of others. LEFF has already said that if you can get evidence of where a FAnG member has used it he will look at the evidence and if prooved correct will kick the members who haev abused it. Its wholly possible that a member has used the bug as yu say in a diminishing universe, but it doesn't mean it is acceptable.

Niot sure where you are going with your point though since it isn't exactly the best english I have seen lately
Leff just says that cause the bug will be gone now, and there will be a rollback aswell. And for most people this bug was unknown. And they wheren't looking for it. FAnG was looking for it and found it.
I say either they manage to find everyone who have used it. Or they just forget about it.

btw... how about a rollback to tick 72? Who knows how long this bug have been used :P
Just spread the planets around a bit.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:10   #41
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
As I say anything that gives an unfair advantage is wrong. Just because you get away with it doesn't mean you are clever. As for round 5 farming was illegal so yes they were wrong (farming was made illegal round 4 incidentally when Xcaliburs gal had systematic ingal farming I believe).

Before that point it was illegal to multi to farm and round 9 till user agrrement was changed for ship farming.

The rules develop and it may not be written, but as I say don't see the people that abused this bug any better than chaeters. It goes against everything the word community stands for to exploit it.
Actually.. I'm pretty sure farming was made illegal in round 7. Before that there was no rules against it... It was just morally wrong :P
They made u unable to send pods ingal tho in round 5.
Then in round 6 they made u unable to send hostile ships at all ingal.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:15   #42
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Niot sure where you are going with your point though since it isn't exactly the best english I have seen lately
hehe..

never mind anyway, im a long time gone from this game..hard to get rid of old habits i guess - like defending grand old elysium
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:24   #43
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Leff just says that cause the bug will be gone now, and there will be a rollback aswell. And for most people this bug was unknown. And they wheren't looking for it. FAnG was looking for it and found it.
I say either they manage to find everyone who have used it. Or they just forget about it.
There will not be any rollbacks - although its much work the caused problems (mainly lost fleets) will get fixed one by one for all players involved, as a rollback again would displease even the not-involved players...
We indeed got told how the bug worked at the HC meeting yesterday evening. We wernt able to reproduce it, just found out that it happend... way too late though...
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:33   #44
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Re: Joker?

just testing
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:39   #45
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen
However in this hc-pagroup meeting we had elysium hc opinion was like "Didn't every1 know about it? What's the big deal?"
comments. I can get u logs later, must go to school now.
Please do. If you can't find them I can give them to you.
I read the log and got another impression than you.

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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:48   #46
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Re: Joker?

IF this is true, then:

The fact that Elysium didn't report this bug and continued to use it to gain an unfair advantage when they were probably aware that an absolute minimal number of other players were even aware of it constitutes as cheating IMO.


However, I'm not calling Ely in general cheaters, as I don't have a clue about what goes around their HC, I would only call them cheaters should I see some genuine log of them going, for instance:

<XtotheZ> Yes! Let's use the rape their babies bug whilst they aren't looking and threaten to do it again unless they surrender to us! We are teh pwnz!
<otherelyHC> Yes! All members, DO IT NOW! \o/
<[Ely]pe0n1> yay \o/

Well, ofc it wouldn't be like that but you get the idea ^^
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:52   #47
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
looking for a fault does not constitute abuse of a fault. They saw something weird and investigated it. I say top marks to them to be honest as the people that abused this bug are unfairly advantaged and may have even ended someone's round. People constantly bad mouthed killmark for ending peoples round why is this any different?
Doesn't exclude their alliance from useing that bug. If I experienced the same thing with a FAnG planet I would report it aswell. But I was absolutely clueless about this thingy tho. To bad... lots of accidental suicide runs i could undo
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:55   #48
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaithess
IF this is true, then:

The fact that Elysium didn't report this bug and continued to use it to gain an unfair advantage when they were probably aware that an absolute minimal number of other players were even aware of it constitutes as cheating IMO.


However, I'm not calling Ely in general cheaters, as I don't have a clue about what goes around their HC, I would only call them cheaters should I see some genuine log of them going, for instance:

<XtotheZ> Yes! Let's use the rape their babies bug whilst they aren't looking and threaten to do it again unless they surrender to us! We are teh pwnz!
<otherelyHC> Yes! All members, DO IT NOW! \o/
<[Ely]pe0n1> yay \o/

Well, ofc it wouldn't be like that but you get the idea ^^
LOL...
Not very bright are we? Whomever used this bug, u are welcome to call cheaters. But are u implying that Elysium knew about this on a HC level?
Going by your logic u could assume that all other alliances then FAnG have used this bug, since they didn't report it.
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 11:58   #49
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Re: Joker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guran
Please do. If you can't find them I can give them to you.
I read the log and got another impression than you.

Ahh.. don't blame Jurgen for lieing to achieve his goals..
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Unread 13 Nov 2003, 12:08   #50
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Re: Joker?

How is abusing yet another sloppy bit of codeing cheating ? Because you didn't know how to do it ?

Abusing bugs is part of almost every game I've played online it's hardly cheating.
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