The Ironborn Backstab

[CBA]

In there first round of playing did the mighty Ironborn pull off one of the finest backstabs of recent PA era? A backstab that will lead them to glory? Or was it a short sighted move by a cripple? Only time will tell.

"Hi all
Lots of rumours flying around so I thought you could hear it from me direct, at least then if you hate me, you can blame me from a position of knowledge.
This round, IB needed help on Ult, we were hitting ult gals. I said I was worried they would all wander off and leave us alone on Ult, they assured us they wouldn't. That is EXACTLY what happened and we continued to hit after they all stopped.
Then yesterday, they requested we rejoin on ult as it was starting again. I agreed and we hit ult gals again, with a view to joining fully as soon as possible (I had some other pols I needed to sort out).
We hit them last night.
Another of Ib's problems were they were getting hit hard, so I worked my ass off to ensure that they didn't get so much incs. IB were insistent that carn wouldnt stop hitting them. I spoke to carn, smoothed things over and got things moving with regards to a nap between IB and carn.
Carn and IB napped and IB then immedietly napped Ult with a view to coming after us for easy roids. I have supported IB a lot this round and as far as I am concerned, they backstabbed. We have been offered naps by people over the past week or two. I said no, my reason being 'we are all hitting ult and I trust your word'. This was a huge mistake by me but done is done.
Ult and IB want to roid race us. We are already putting things in place to ensure that doesn't happen.
Everyone thinks we will be smashed tonight by everyone, we are working hard to ensure that won't happen.
We may have ND and DLR incs, but they are co and we are covered. Also, it won't last. We may get otters and stellar, but again it wont last.
We will get hit by IB hard, and I would think this will continue till the end of the round. As such, all defence orders previously are now void. We will get new defence orders out tonight, but I can tell you now, they will be anti-IB.
Priority on defence will go against IB. We were in with a chance of winning but I think ult just guaranteed themselves the win.
I will update further later tonight once I m home and have sorted out a few naps..
From this point onwards, anyone in CT who can arrange an alliance nap between CT and any other alliance, please come to me asap. We have some of the best, most influential players in the game, let's make it count.
Incase I cant be clearer, IB screwed us and the aim now will be to ensure they lose.
My apoligies
Forest"


So now we have Ultores / Carnage / IB & CT in a roid race. With Ult heavily in the lead and only 2 allies that can actually hit them? Carnage politically untouchable. IB can only hit CT

What is CT's next play?

[Forest]

Damn, my spelling is bad.

[genosse27]

*in their...

Next moves:
Forest goes back to school.
Astatores is currently not napped to Ironborn. Create a new super block with astatores to take down "What do I do?" and Ironborn.

[Swainey]

Ironborn have indeed pulled off one of the finest moves in pa history and secured themselves in second place glory.

[Buddah]

Lots of fiction in there, it was ult that sorted the carn nap. Look at ct fleet movement, hit non ult more than ult in the galaxies you hit. Sitting on the fence not properly taking a side, usually this leads to both sides hitting said alliance, happened many times in recent and long forgotten rounds. Settling for second is better than constant incoming for the rest of the round and finishing fourth. It allows members to sleep at night. If carn or norse had been neutral we could have had an interesting round since they chose not to we got another shitty round. I mostly blame pa team, nerfed xp too much in addition to choosing defensive stats. I'd rather play xp every round than blocktarion.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Buddah

Look at ct fleet movement, hit non ult more than ult in the galaxies you hit. Sitting on the fence not properly taking a side, usually this leads to both sides hitting said alliance, happened many times in recent and long forgotten rounds.

Not true, ct put at least 50% of all their fleets on Ult and then 50% on the rest of the gal, which was a combination of alliances.

Originally Posted by Buddah

Settling for second is better than constant incoming for the rest of the round and finishing fourth. It allows members to sleep at night.

Really? Great job.

(And you were gaining on Ult AND more help was coming the next night, and your incs were gonna drop substantially, both of which your HC knew.

And I am fairly sure you won't finish 2nd

Originally Posted by Buddah

If carn or norse had been neutral we could have had an interesting round since they chose not to we got another shitty round. I mostly blame pa team, nerfed xp too much in addition to choosing defensive stats. I'd rather play xp every round than blocktarion.

IB started the block war and sent 4 alliances at Ult, BEFORE carn went on IB.

The first quote in this post is you complaining about CT not blocking, this part is you saying you hate blocks.

This post says everything about IB tbh.

[Ave]

If you dont give 440 incs the first part, among with 3 other tags. People are happy to be more neutral.

If you even came solo, it would be another scenario.

An eye for an eye

Respect from trying to get the win tho, didnt see that coming.

[[JungleMuffin]]

I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.

Some of us have had children that were stillborn. That has no place here.

[CBA]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.

How’s your new gal emoMuffin ?

Funny thing you wouldn’t have lost roids anyway

[VenoX]

I wasn't going to bother giving this thread the time of day since I know the majority of those involved, know full well that Forests mail to CT was full of factual inaccuracies and were quietly pleased when Forests attempts at controlling multiple blocks into a war that benefits CT, blew up right in his face but here goes anyway..

First of all, calling something a backstab implies that Forest wasn't aware of the deal about to be agreed to with Ult and Co. This is simply not the case. I'll explain..

Forest was happy for CT to quietly ride the fence and attempt to benefit from the drawn out war between IB and Ult in the hope of manoeuvring CT into a position where they could win. He would say CT will hit Ult in their gal raids and we'd end up getting just as much incomings from CT (if not more on some days) than they were putting on Ult at all. After a few days of this, a separate block channel was made without Forest/CT and we continued along without them. To be clear, Forest was claiming that he was doing this behind gm's back, that he didn't have the authority to get CT fully involved and that I shouldn't speak to gm myself because he was mad that we'd hit them in gal raids earlier in the round.

Now by the time IB agreed to nap Ult and Co, we'd had incomings from 3 alliances for near on 14 days straight. Our activity was dying, we were barely launching fleets any more and due to the various politics of other alliances, there was no sign of this status quo changing any time soon. Norse had already committed to hitting us til EOR because they saw an Ultores win as them winning too. Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.

My fellow HC in IB were tired and looking for a way out, I was against giving up and napping Ult. I suggested that I could attempt to get CT to finally commit to hitting Ult, tying up some more enemy fleets and making some morale boosting headway into Ults roid/value lead. I explained to Forest the full situation, that we were done, we had a deal on the table to nap Ult and that their free ride was going to be over unless they decided to get involved. Forest made promises again to actually put some fleets onto Ult and claimed some targets from our shared spreadsheet. At this point, Forest was fully aware and in complete control of the situation unfolding in front of him. All he had to do was commit the fleets he said he would and our deal with Ult was dead. The next day, after receiving a fair chunk of incomings from CT ourselves, we checked how many fleets CT put onto Ult. It was 21. The same old story as it had been all round. It was at that point I gave up trying to persuade my fellow IB HC not to take the deal with Ultores, and the deal was signed to end the war.

I am still proud of what Ironborn has achieved in our first round as a full alliance even if we ultimately fell short of winning, at least we actually gave it a shot and didn't settle for planet/galaxy ranks like everyone else did. We have learned lessons and will be back next round to try all over again.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by VenoX

lots of text

When you decided to start the blockwars, Ironborn were slightly ahead of Ultores on score, we were head to head on value and roids were almost equal. your block outnumbered ours, yet we won... And you blame this on CT? Your alliance were simply not good enough despite enjoying numerical advantage...

[VenoX]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

When you decided to start the blockwars, Ironborn were slightly ahead of Ultores on score, we were head to head on value and roids were almost equal. your block outnumbered ours, yet we won... And you blame this on CT? Your alliance were simply not good enough despite enjoying numerical advantage...

Numerical yes, in fleets and commitment no. You should be more thankful that carnage were willing to suicide for you and norse were so committed to you winning else things would've gone differently. It must be nice to be so arrogant and deluded to not see past the end of your own nose though.

And yes, way to read between the lines and completely miss the point, but you couldn't miss an opportunity to boast about your own superiority and shout down those who dared to challenge you.

[CBA]

Originally Posted by VenoX

I wasn't going to bother giving this thread the time of day since I know the majority of those involved, know full well that Forests mail to CT was full of factual inaccuracies and were quietly pleased when Forests attempts at controlling multiple blocks into a war that benefits CT, blew up right in his face but here goes anyway..

First of all, calling something a backstab implies that Forest wasn't aware of the deal about to be agreed to with Ult and Co. This is simply not the case. I'll explain..

Forest was happy for CT to quietly ride the fence and attempt to benefit from the drawn out war between IB and Ult in the hope of manoeuvring CT into a position where they could win. He would say CT will hit Ult in their gal raids and we'd end up getting just as much incomings from CT (if not more on some days) than they were putting on Ult at all. After a few days of this, a separate block channel was made without Forest/CT and we continued along without them. To be clear, Forest was claiming that he was doing this behind gm's back, that he didn't have the authority to get CT fully involved and that I shouldn't speak to gm myself because he was mad that we'd hit them in gal raids earlier in the round.

Now by the time IB agreed to nap Ult and Co, we'd had incomings from 3 alliances for near on 14 days straight. Our activity was dying, we were barely launching fleets any more and due to the various politics of other alliances, there was no sign of this status quo changing any time soon. Norse had already committed to hitting us til EOR because they saw an Ultores win as them winning too. Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.

My fellow HC in IB were tired and looking for a way out, I was against giving up and napping Ult. I suggested that I could attempt to get CT to finally commit to hitting Ult, tying up some more enemy fleets and making some morale boosting headway into Ults roid/value lead. I explained to Forest the full situation, that we were done, we had a deal on the table to nap Ult and that their free ride was going to be over unless they decided to get involved. Forest made promises again to actually put some fleets onto Ult and claimed some targets from our shared spreadsheet. At this point, Forest was fully aware and in complete control of the situation unfolding in front of him. All he had to do was commit the fleets he said he would and our deal with Ult was dead. The next day, after receiving a fair chunk of incomings from CT ourselves, we checked how many fleets CT put onto Ult. It was 21. The same old story as it had been all round. It was at that point I gave up trying to persuade my fellow IB HC not to take the deal with Ultores, and the deal was signed to end the war.

I am still proud of what Ironborn has achieved in our first round as a full alliance even if we ultimately fell short of winning, at least we actually gave it a shot and didn't settle for planet/galaxy ranks like everyone else did. We have learned lessons and will be back next round to try all over again.

A very well written piece VenoX. A good explanation of what went on behind closed doors. Care to input Forest?

But CT trying to play the fence is a normal thing for last 10+ rounds so all normal there

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by VenoX

tl;dr

Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.

CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.

You have noone to blame for your members recieving inc as part of raids on Ult heavy gals but your own members and HC/BC, for failing to assure they had a reasonably self sufficient fleet composition, instead of cheesy, one dimensional anti Ult builds.

Which HC was responsible for those fleet comps? Frankly, they should be sacked for being a mug.

[CBA]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.

CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.

You have noone to blame for your members recieving inc as part of raids on Ult heavy gals but your own members and HC/BC, for failing to assure they had a reasonably self sufficient fleet composition, instead of cheesy, one dimensional anti Ult builds.

Which HC was responsible for those fleet comps? Frankly, they should be sacked for being a mug.

Remind for a second...

IB choose a far weaker strat.. FR (LOL)
Ult with DE makes them so hard to roid damn it. Only DE roiding DE has a realistic chance.

Also didn't IB decide to BP with Ult as well. Like JM points out. You choose to BP with the #1 competition and then you have a poor strat....

[VenoX]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.

Yes we were weak against CR, as your CR strat makes you weak against almost everything. Who was responsible for your strat exactly?

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.

It's obvious to me that you were not playing CR in a CR ally, since CT didn't land CR on us after what, tick 250? Yes our strat meant we had anti-CR late but after that you didn't touch us, regardless of how much you kept trying while Forest was "hitting ult".

Yes CT assistance was great, thats why we've had 500 incs from CT this round vs the 350 you put on Ultores according to the intel Xerxes just shared with me. It just goes to support everything I've said so far about Forest/CT and completely vindicates our decision to end the war.

[Mzyxptlk]

Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids.

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about what's going on (what the **** am I doing on AD?), this seems to me like the missing link between VenoX' point of view and Forest's:

Forest tries his best to get CT members to do what he said they would do, but when they instead choose the course of action that's best for their planets (ie, hitting down), he's powerless to change it. Your homework for the day: why?

Then, when CT's reluctance to hit Ultores becomes clear, Venox, overestimating Forest's influence in/over CT, sees them failing or refusing to follow up on the promises they had made by mouth of Forest, assumes they are (or he personally is) acting malicously, which he considers a valid reason to pull out of the agreement as well, seeing as it had already fallen apart.

However, Forest doesn't see it as having fallen apart, he's hard at work trying to keep to the deal. He's suddenly faced with IB pulling out, interprets this as a backstab, and that makes him write the mail quoted in the OP.

PA politics. PA politics never changes.

[Ave]

Originally Posted by VenoX

Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.

We had 0 naps when we entered the round. Then the bombing started from u, vgn, ult and otters. Ofc we were fat too, had a good start which was to be expected with CR strat. Atleast you and VGN seemed to coordinate, since u never hit the same places.

The 4 alliances inc killed our lead and we went napping in order to direct inc back at you. But that had little to no effect.

You avoided or napped all DE alliances, had napped all co tags. Took nap from HR. Theres the 75% back at you

I dont mind 440 incs if u come alone, but u didnt, nor u were hitting anyone else really as you wanted to fight strategy that suits u. So dont give me any gal raid stories. I don't keep it as personal, but I neither can let u walk away with it.

Yes we did kingmake Ult, but out of our own interests. We crashed a few by purpose, as u couldnt rebuild the BS. Most we crashed due to work and life and stuff like that Something we never wanted to happen ofc. We are bold but not stupid.

If you want guidance, don't give me "block inc" and then ask for support for the win. As a future lesson You let the best tag grow in peace for 600 ticks. While half the universe has perfect strategy to land them early on. We did, you could have also, instead of making an effort to damage us.

Respect for eventually going for the win tho, as I said, didnt see it coming, so you have come far.

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by CBA

How’s your new gal emoMuffin ?

Funny thing you wouldn’t have lost roids anyway

Gals going pretty good. Still biggest in gal, and I'm GC now, which is nice.

How's your parole going? It's a shame you're not as good at getting consent as you are at posting shitthreads.

[stay_posi]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

Gals going pretty good. Still biggest in gal, and I'm GC now, which is nice.

How's your parole going? It's a shame you're not as good at getting consent as you are at posting shitthreads.

oi is it too late to late start

[nolezy]

Originally Posted by stay_posi

oi is it too late to late start

Hell yes buddy, come along with your old pal nolezy for a ride!

[Patrikc]

He is not blaming CT for us losing the war, that is fully our shortcoming. Rather he is saying that we needed more from CT in order to take Ultores down. That they (effectively) declined is within their rights, but Forest can't claim ignorance afterwards and act like he has been betrayed.

[Patrikc]

Ah why did I even bother responding to a troll.

Xerxes: I'm not complaining about the crashes themselves, though there is a difference between crashing on one of our four ships vs two of your three - that's a strength of your strat - but it hurts more than usual when you're Zik.

Your block was stronger than ours, and yes, that's including the lead alliance. I don't see anyone deny that.

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

Ah why did I even bother responding to a troll.

Play a stupid game, win a stupid prize.

I'll not cast pearl before swine.

[ChroNOS]

Good post to explain situation by Venox.


I'd like to add that yes, we made some strategical mistake when taking on Ult. But neither myself or Venox have much experience leading an alliance of our own. We learn from those mistakes, we move on, and we will be back stronger and wiser.


Let's not forget as well that Ult did receive defense from Norse and Asta; a luxury that we did not have, and we have handled between 150 and 200 incs ourselves very finely. We were certainly on point defensively and we can see this as a successful part of our round.



Muffin, keep your mouth shut until you come back down from c200.

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by ChroNOS

Muffin, keep your mouth shut until you come back down from c200.

Keep my mouth shut until I come down from top 10 you mean?

Keep your mouth shut until you learn how to play the game, random.

Actually, who are you, do you even play PA?

[Forest]

Quite a bit of bullshit here but just to add to what Venox said.

Yes you laid it down on the line for me but I then presented you with a plan for you to win, that also gave CT a chance, and would have been a 5-way fight in the last 3 days between Ult/IB/CT/Norse/Carn.
And you led me to believe that I would have time to action that plan.

It would have worked.

At the end of the day, I was always completely open with you about my intentions to try and win, I made that very clear.

The way I see it, CT as an alliance could never have won this round, we lacked in certain, important areas. We took hardly any naps and attacked who we wanted, when we wanted. That isn't fencing, we faced way more random incs as well. We were open to attacks from all sides.

But through careful military, targetting and politics, we got ourselves into a position where we could have won if things had fallen for us, without having a block behind us.

IB were the opposite. They had the skills, players and a big block behind them and chose to forget the win and nap for an easy two weeks. No alliance I have any say in will ever do that, I don't see the point.

Things changed for us when you handed the win to Ult, but I know which alliance I would rather play for.

I am damn proud of CT and nothing will change that. We played our hand, we went for the win, and we did it without a block behind us.

People keep throwing this 'omg you are fencing' thing at me, but I would prefer no blocks, as I always make clear.

I have done the block thing and owned pa, it is dull and boring.

[lokken]

Generally most people who try for a win with a weaker alliance fail.

But you generally have the choice between an easy round and coasting in an ordinary position or taking a risk. For me taking a risk may be futile but if you do pull it off its a pretty good achievement. And you will always have people criticising this and that, but they are mainly those who lack the creativity to even get things set up in the first place and maybe don't appreciate that ****ing things up is pretty much guaranteed in hindsight. Not a reference to this thread, but just my experience.

[Forest]

Spot on.

[[B5]Londo]

As an otter i find this whole thread rather laughable, as it is pretty clear that it is us not CT who are paying the biggest price for Ironborn's nap with ult.

[Paisley]

Gangbang Fail got to love it

[Forest]

The 500 v 350 total (whilst I can't dispute the totals because I dont have that information) is completely irrelevant as I largely ignored Ult at start of round, and hit IB a lot, I believe when we started hitting Ult gals Ib were our most hostile and we were theirs, and started off at a total of about 350-400 when we started helping. At ALL times in the war, we put more on Ult than the rest of the targets combined.

With regards to the attacks and members not following orders, I must at this point be a little more critical of myself and less critical of the members.
I did after all put up the attacks and members chose them, so we can't blame them, even if I did rant a lot about it (And I did a lot of ranting).

I would like to discuss 'fencing' as this keeps getting levelled at me and I don't believe for a second we did. Fencing is surely napping everyone to avoid incs.
CT had very few naps and most alliances were free to hit us. Most alliances did hit us at different parts of the round. I was however, I believe, pretty good at making us an unattractive target for most people. When wars happened (and they did) we acted and dealt with them military without resorting to more naps. We didn't sign naps, we didn't resort to asking 5 alliances for help and rather than knock us for that, I think we should be commended for that.

This was really supposed to be my last round, work is pretty fantastic and I have 30 children who are dependent on me being at my best for them each and every day.
I will have a planet now for next round, but will be largely inactive, but for me, this is just about the end of my time in pa.
I am proud of how I have played the game, and I am proud of the people I have fought alongside and against.

I wish everyone, all the best for the future

Forest

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Forest

The 500 v 350 total (whilst I can't dispute the totals because I dont have that information) is completely irrelevant as I largely ignored Ult at start of round, and hit IB a lot, I believe when we started hitting Ult gals Ib were our most hostile and we were theirs, and started off at a total of about 350-400 when we started helping. At ALL times in the war, we put more on Ult than the rest of the targets combined.

With regards to the attacks and members not following orders, I must at this point be a little more critical of myself and less critical of the members.
I did after all put up the attacks and members chose them, so we can't blame them, even if I did rant a lot about it (And I did a lot of ranting).

As a leader in pa you can have targets or objectives but you can't make players follow it. We just aren't in a time where players will go for something no matter what the odds, because pa is nowhere near as much of a priority for a likely aging player base. Should you adopt more conservative tactics or choose an easier set of targets to accommodate this? I think it's very difficult, particularly for players who played in the early rounds and didn't enjoy napping the game to a standstill.

I would like to discuss 'fencing' as this keeps getting levelled at me and I don't believe for a second we did. Fencing is surely napping everyone to avoid incs.
CT had very few naps and most alliances were free to hit us. Most alliances did hit us at different parts of the round. I was however, I believe, pretty good at making us an unattractive target for most people. When wars happened (and they did) we acted and dealt with them military without resorting to more naps. We didn't sign naps, we didn't resort to asking 5 alliances for help and rather than knock us for that, I think we should be commended for that.

We did similar in ascendancy for a period and while we didn't hold naps we controlled our targeting to manage our incoming. In my mind you may not think it's fencing but it's what others perceive that counts. If you are not in a major war and getting fat off the back, you will be seen to be that no matter how clever/stupid your strategy is.

This was really supposed to be my last round, work is pretty fantastic and I have 30 children who are dependent on me being at my best for them each and every day.
I will have a planet now for next round, but will be largely inactive, but for me, this is just about the end of my time in pa.
I am proud of how I have played the game, and I am proud of the people I have fought alongside and against.

I wish everyone, all the best for the future

Forest

Fair play for keeping going so long. There are plenty of players who don't put themselves on the line and go hiding but my perception is that you are the opposite of that and tried to make the most of what the game has to offer. Well played and best wishes.

[ChroNOS]

Forest also forgot to mention our shift from Ult to Norse where we "abandoned" him was in fact him being drunk and quitting the block channel, so missing all the discussion about it. We did not abandon "CT", he choose to be a drunken idiot and missed the discussion about it.


He also choose to ignore me and Venox claims that we would concede rather than look at our alliance drop to 30 fleets activity so he could put his 8-days plan to hit ult in practice(that was 2 or 3 days ago). Might as well have waited for next Christmas.


The block needed help now, not in 8 days. Our fleets on Ult dropped from 210 to 150 to 120 in 3 days.


I'm not going to blame him, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say he thought we would fight to the end and he saw this as an opportunity for Ult and Ib to keep weakening themselves to put CT in a better position. He did not take our words seriously.


Easy to call us cowards when CT did not get incs from either block and Ult and Ib took the full blunt of incoming from both blocks(ND and Norse received their fair share as well, and Otters now unfortunately as well now)

[Swainey]

Originally Posted by Forest

I would like to discuss 'fencing' as this keeps getting levelled at me and I don't believe for a second we did. Fencing is surely napping everyone to avoid incs.

According to google the definition of 'Sitting on the Fence' is described as "a person's lack of decisiveness, neutrality or hesitance to choose between two sides in an argument or a competition, or inability to decide due to lack of courage."

I think that definition fits CT well.

There were days where I was personally utterly frustrated by CT decision making.

Here was Otters hitting Ult (as posted before Otters are/were ult most hostile alliance, which is a joke given how many active members we have this round but thats another story), which gave CT the best chance of winning and in return we were getting inc more days than not from CT.

Now I'm fully aware we didn't have a deal and as such are not immune to inc, but it just made zero sense to me, to be hitting an alliance that was really benefiting your cause.

But you did and you did that because you chose to fence.

As much as I hate to say it, most of what Venox has posted in here is correct.

While I'm livid with Ironborn leaving us out in the cold, I'm also very aware of the fact that this situation was caused by CT not pulling their finger out.

[[DDK]gm]

yet no one came to me directly

[M0RPH3US]

boring thread

to summarize:

Ironborn: more like Chickenborn, no power and will to fight backstabs their block and uses excuses why they had to do it

Forest Alliance: did never enter the war, cause riding the fence, but they were galraiding gals with ult in (0 claims on ult planets)

Conspiracy Theory: No one ever spoke to GM

Otters: fighting the big boys believing to have strong allies - we know the outcome

Ultores: Doing nothing but dcing a few nights of 150 fleets - easiest win in history - congratz!

nr(ound)p

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

yet no one came to me directly

Must have felt like a spare pr*ck
Everyone knows that gm does ct's politics

[Adapt]

Originally Posted by Paisley

Must have felt like a spare pr*ck
Everyone knows that gm does ct's politics

Well thats true, but forest keeps involving himself in CTs politics, he done it this round, and the round before, you can't blame him for doing so, if GM didn't want him speaking with other alliances a simple chat with the other alliances HCs and he would have been bypassed I'd of assumed, and everything would have went straight to GM.


But only Forest and GM really know what's going on.

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

yet no one came to me directly

if you are trump then forest is working for the deepstate...


fire him asap

[mPulse]

VenoX and Kheros force their members to do horrible things to each other every night :/

[Influence]

Originally Posted by mPulse

VenoX and Kheros force their members to do horrible things to each other every night :/

I told you not to believe RexDrax anymore when he says he was forced by someone else.

[[DDK]gm]

Spot on adapt, if people don't BS us and come to me direct then they wont get any BS back, I am the ultimate authority in CT and people cannot complain if we don't do what they want and they haven't spoken to me.

We gave Ult 343 incs this round which is quite low but I guess its not far off what we gave IB.

[TheoDD]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

We gave Ult 343 incs this round which is quite low but I guess its not far off what we gave IB.

I count over 650... So your guess IS far off.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

Spot on adapt, if people don't BS us and come to me direct then they wont get any BS back, I am the ultimate authority in CT and people cannot complain if we don't do what they want and they haven't spoken to me.

Yet this whole thread is about CT and Ironborn, and you're barely mentioned. How can that be?

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Yet this whole thread is about CT and Ironborn, and you're barely mentioned. How can that be?

Not everyone is a glorywhore, Mary.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

Not everyone is a glorywhore, Mary.

gm claims 'ultimate authority' and to 'come to him direct', yet everyone appears to talk to Forest. There's all kinds of explanations for the discrepancy between gm's statement and the reality, but all of the ones I could come up with reflected badly on CT, gm, or Forest (Influence has since listed most of them), so I figured I'd ask gm's view. Maybe now that the round is over he'll share it?

P.S. Oh, I see, my signature. I wondered where that came from.

[BloodyButcher]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

gm claims 'ultimate authority' and to 'come to him direct', yet everyone appears to talk to Forest. There's all kinds of explanations for the discrepancy between gm's statement and the reality, but all of the ones I could come up with reflected badly on CT, gm, or Forest (Influence has since listed most of them), so I figured I'd ask gm's view. Maybe now that the round is over he'll share it?

P.S. Oh, I see, my signature. I wondered where that came from.

Forest set attacks, and he set targets within his allowance, ie what gm politics opens up for.
Wich meant he could not ptarget, and he could no take the ultimate decision on who to NAP or not.
Its realy nothing new that BCs are those that de facto controls where their alliances hit very often, and its not something new that a good BCs try make sure the targets alliance he sets up is under fire from other tags.

I dont realy see what is so confusing about it, unless that Forest claimed that he was the only one in charge of CT politics.

[Influence]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

Spot on adapt, if people don't BS us and come to me direct then they wont get any BS back, I am the ultimate authority in CT and people cannot complain if we don't do what they want and they haven't spoken to me.

Well, apparently other allies don't see things that way. That can mean either of 3 things:
1) People outside of CT feel they can better leverage Forest to get things done, or people outside of CT don't respect your position in CT compared to Forest. In which case I would try and force Forest into a less public role if I were you.
2) Forest doesn't respect you in your role and at the very least pretends to be more than he is towards outside parties. In which case I would outright distance your alliance from Forest
3) You and Forest are in cahoots to ensure you have plausible deniability in these cases. In which case i would probably do nothing, but coming on here doesn't exactly make sure you are percieved as a trustworthy alliance/partner either.

Given the fact i consider neither Forest, or yourself, to be complete and utter idiots, I am most inclined to believe in option 3, or somthing along those lines. Either way i'm not sure on which alliance this situation reflects the worst. But if I were back in any sort of power position, I would certainly be wary of both your alliances for at least the next round.