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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 19:05   #1
dda
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Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

No piker this fellow.

The $3.55 trillion is just the regular budget (up some 30% over last years despite a downturn in the economy---god love the Democrats).

Of course this doesn't include the TARP funds or the stimulus package which will add another $2 trillion or so.

Those who have prayed for the destruction of the United States should be smiling at this. No one has to destroy us, we are doing it to ourselves.

Sadly, it looks like we will take most of the world into the toilet with us.

If the top 1% of tax payers are asked to pick up the same share of the tab as currently they will have to come up with $2.2 trillion. If you spread that out to the top 5% paying $3.57 trillion.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 19:18   #2
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Originally Posted by dda View Post
No piker this fellow.

The $3.55 trillion is just the regular budget (up some 30% over last years despite a downturn in the economy---god love the Democrats).

Of course this doesn't include the TARP funds or the stimulus package which will add another $2 trillion or so.

Those who have prayed for the destruction of the United States should be smiling at this. No one has to destroy us, we are doing it to ourselves.

Sadly, it looks like we will take most of the world into the toilet with us.

If the top 1% of tax payers are asked to pick up the same share of the tab as currently they will have to come up with $2.2 trillion. If you spread that out to the top 5% paying $3.57 trillion.
The estimates for the 1.7 Trillion deficit for this year include the tarp funds. You know I thought about this, since I make decent money now and so much of it goes into taxes, I thought about where this money was going and what we have to show for it.

I paid more in taxes last year than I used to make, and you know if I lose my job now because of this economic downturn, then I don't have health coverage to pay for me, my wife and daughter. All that money we pay into taxes and we STILL don't have universal health care. Instead we got a whole lot of war. So you know while I am also scared about the size of this budget, I think it's addressing the correct issues. It's got the priorities straight, and hey if the economy improves because of TARP and this budget and Obama policies then maybe we can afford to pay it off. If we can't then we're all ****ed anyways.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 19:22   #3
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

Do you really want the same government that ran the war running the health care system? I expect them to be every bit as effective.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 20:05   #4
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Those who have prayed for the destruction of the United States should be smiling at this. No one has to destroy us, we are doing it to ourselves.
well you were ...

it was called the bush presidency ...

but that's over now old man
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 20:26   #5
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Do you really want the same government that ran the war running the health care system? I expect them to be every bit as effective.
It's not the same government, it's a new government.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 20:38   #6
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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It's not the same government, it's a new government.
lol owned.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 20:40   #7
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

God man, you sound like a broken record.
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Unread 26 Feb 2009, 23:02   #8
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Originally Posted by dda View Post
No piker this fellow.

The $3.55 trillion is just the regular budget (up some 30% over last years despite a downturn in the economy---god love the Democrats).

Of course this doesn't include the TARP funds or the stimulus package which will add another $2 trillion or so.

Those who have prayed for the destruction of the United States should be smiling at this. No one has to destroy us, we are doing it to ourselves.

Sadly, it looks like we will take most of the world into the toilet with us.

If the top 1% of tax payers are asked to pick up the same share of the tab as currently they will have to come up with $2.2 trillion. If you spread that out to the top 5% paying $3.57 trillion.

yes but i read somewhere that it DOES include the costs of the wars in iraq and afghanistan, which were always kept secret by your superhero republican party - thus completely negating your 30% figure i would imagine.

and on the same subject, how the hell did your republicans for the last few years go 'this is our budget for the year, apart from this stuff cos we dont want you to know how much it costs!'
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Unread 27 Feb 2009, 07:13   #9
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

Anyways, I thought trial lawyers were all supposed to be liberal donors for the Democratic party. What happened to you mr dda?
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Unread 27 Feb 2009, 20:08   #10
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

The point of the thread is that I am afraid that my country is on a ruinous course. Is this a new concern of mine? No. The warning signs were there during the last Bush term.

However, the current trend in the course of the country is more percipitous now. The virtual loss of the two party system for at least the next 2 years is rife for abuse.

Obama is adored and the Democrats have a stranglehold on government that the Republicans last enjoyed from 1921-1922. Sadly, when there is a group which has this kind of power, they don't have to listen to the other side and thus moderation is lost.

The Obama administration is receiving very little critical scrutiny other than in the right-wing-talk-show sector. This is not the sort of meaningful scrutiny that is likely to temper the decision making process.

Bush, in order to pursue his wars, had to yield on many domestic and economic fronts in order to gain enough Democratic support to fund the wars.

The prime reason that the Democrats acquiesced in many of the war votes was not just out of fear of public opinion but because they bartered their votes for concessions on budgetary and regulatory measures.

In 2005, Bush and the Republicans wanted to reform the regulatory scheme on financial institutions. A prime target of this was Fanny Mae which was a major player in the collapse of the real estate bubble (and its creation as well). The Democrats killed these attempts.

When the Democrats want to do something, good or bad, now, they can almost ignore the Republicans. They can enact whatever they wish.

I hope that I am wrong. If I am not, it is your generation which will reap the whirlwind.
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Unread 27 Feb 2009, 20:44   #11
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Exclamation Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Originally Posted by roadrunner_0 View Post
yes but i read somewhere that it DOES include the costs of the wars in iraq and afghanistan, which were always kept secret by your superhero republican party - thus completely negating your 30% figure i would imagine.

and on the same subject, how the hell did your republicans for the last few years go 'this is our budget for the year, apart from this stuff cos we dont want you to know how much it costs!'
I think you're a bit confused about the US budget process. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were funded off-budget, but the amounts weren't secret. All of our wars start off being funded off-budget (I guess we're just not that good at forecasting) and eventually they get moved on-budget. Bush certainly dragged his feet in getting it put on-budget, undoubtedly to make the budget itself look better; but Obama is playing a similar game. He knows that Iraq funding was already scheduled to decline, so putting it on-budget now means he can take full credit for 'reducing the budget' going forward (or he can offset reduced Iraq funding with other spending and claim he's not increasing the budget).

Keeping items on- or off-budget for political reasons is a long-standing tradition in the US. Social Security has always been off-budget, for example, so that the government can borrow from the Social Security Trust Fund to make the budget look good (or at least make it look better than it would otherwise).

[edit]Oh, and Obama has proposed spending $180B on Iraq and Afghanistan for FY2010, so that accounts for 5% of his $3.55T budget. [/edit]
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Unread 27 Feb 2009, 21:04   #12
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Originally Posted by Tactitus View Post
I think you're a bit confused about the US budget process. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were funded off-budget, but the amounts weren't secret. All of our wars start off being funded off-budget (I guess we're just not that good at forecasting) and eventually they get moved on-budget. Bush certainly dragged his feet in getting it put on-budget, undoubtedly to make the budget itself look better; but Obama is playing a similar game. He knows that Iraq funding was already scheduled to decline, so putting it on-budget now means he can take full credit for 'reducing the budget' going forward (or he can offset reduced Iraq funding with other spending and claim he's not increasing the budget).

Keeping items on- or off-budget for political reasons is a long-standing tradition in the US. Social Security has always been off-budget, for example, so that the government can borrow from the Social Security Trust Fund to make the budget look good (or at least make it look better than it would otherwise).
so obama is clearly manipulative because he's doing what bush didn't do when he should have done it?

You are both looking very silly but at least dda has charm.
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Unread 27 Feb 2009, 22:56   #13
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Exclamation Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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so obama is clearly manipulative because he's doing what bush didn't do when he should have done it?
No, he's just setting himself up to take credit for something that was going to happen anyway. It's no big deal, he's a politician. If you could put down the dreamy kool-aid for a minute, I'm sure you'd see it too.
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Unread 28 Feb 2009, 00:23   #14
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

The point here would be that although everyone bought into the hype that Obama was going to be different because of his stirring rhetoric that in so many ways it is business as usual.

The large number of lobbyists which he chose for top post after publicly pronouncing that there would be no lobbyists in his administration is an example.

I don't trunst the man and I don't trust most of those around him.
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Unread 28 Feb 2009, 04:04   #15
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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I don't trunst the man and I don't trust most of those around him.
you don't trust big bird but it doesn't mean we're banning sesame street
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Unread 28 Feb 2009, 06:51   #16
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

The worry is that Obama may ban me. But then many may feel that this would be change they can believe in.
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Unread 28 Feb 2009, 07:41   #17
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

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Originally Posted by dda View Post
I don't trunst the man and I don't trust most of those around him.
Coz he's black?!
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Unread 28 Feb 2009, 19:38   #18
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Re: Obama Budget $3.55 Trillion

dda, question:

Say just for speculation sake we could look in the future, ten years from now and see what our country is like after Obama's one or two terms. It could either be a comeback story, where we made it back from the brink of disaster and are again enjoying prosperity. On the other hand it could be a story of despair and gloom, because we never managed to stop the downward spiral of the economy.

In the first scenario the stimulus worked, in the second Obama ran up huge budget deficits that did nothing for the economy and now we're hugely in debt and running on fumes.

If looking in the future you were to see the worser situation, I wouldn't blame you for continuing on and railing against Obama. However, my question to you is this: If looking into the future and you see that we're better off, that the economy is doing well again and that America is as strong as ever would you then come back from that experience and be supportive of Obama's policies? Or would you continue to rant because the policies violate your conservative ideals?
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