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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 19:20   #1
Deffeh
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[Football] Its games like today..

.. that epitomise why despite the fact they are capable of glorious football, Arsenal under Wenger will always be an unpopular side and will continue to attract negative attention from both the media and opposition fans.

Discuss
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 19:30   #2
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Capable is the right word, as Arsenal was shit today. I felt physicaly ill for most of the match.

On the other hand the referee was absolute shit, with his inconsistancy. The match clearly shows that sportsmanship doesnt win matches, nor bring you any favours. I suggest Wenger bring in the likes of Martin Keown again.
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 20:01   #3
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Wigan should have had a pen before the equaliser
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 20:04   #4
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

and if heskey wouldnt have tried to win an oscar, they might have gotten one too

(thank you, heskey)
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 20:12   #5
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

My net connection went crazy in the last 10 minutes, so I missed all of the unpleasant timewasting and crazy yellow cards. I'll watch it on MOTD later to try to get a sense of what happened, and report back.
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 20:53   #6
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Apparently Arsenal have more refereeing decisions going against them than any other team in the league...
(Newcastle are the opposite...)
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 21:03   #7
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Apparently Arsenal cheat the most
Really?
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 21:12   #8
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

No, you Spurs scummer.


(Ste didn't quite interpret the article right though)
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 22:12   #9
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

it's actually from the football is fixed blog.

I discussed the blog here if anyone's interested...
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Unread 11 Feb 2007, 22:13   #10
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

twente - feyenoord 3-0

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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 01:45   #11
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Wigan should have had a penalty, both arsenal's goals were offside and Henry and Lehmann disgraced themselves as usual but hey, lets just ignore all that.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 02:30   #12
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Arsenal get a lucky win. Disgrace. Cheating bastards.

Man U or Chelsea get a lucky win. Class showed in the end. Ground out a good result.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 02:43   #13
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A19571402

"Ronaldo still invites accusations of diving, such as at Spurs on Sunday.

But it was his talent and threat that drew the fatal outstretched foot from Steed Malbranque that made the award of a penalty at Spurs an understandable decision."

Dire journalism, yet another example of anti arsenal bias.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 02:49   #14
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Today was more a case of the ref being crap all round more than anything.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 03:31   #15
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Wigan should have had a penalty, both arsenal's goals were offside and Henry and Lehmann disgraced themselves as usual but hey, lets just ignore all that.
Lehmann is a ****, that goes without saying, but although Henry was a bit of a twat today, I wouldn't say he 'usually disgraces himself.'

As for the outcome of the game, the officials made some bad decisions but I wouldn't say the result was unfair. Arsenal had one offside goal allowed, one onside goal allowed and one onside goal disallowed. Heskey was pushed but made a meal of it and deserved what he got.

I also wouldn't say Arsenal are a particularly unpopular side. Not in my experience, anyway.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 10:36   #16
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

I only saw the second half (was in the pub with a french rugby fan, she practically hit the roof when they scored in like the last minute), but arsenal did seem to be making heavy weather of it.
Apparently the second goal wasn't offside because the ball was passed back to him to score, or *something*. Henry was having a little strop, but he does sometimes.
I do feel a bit sorry for Wigan. They held out well for most of the match.
and I was slightly pissed off that my housemate's teams managed to come back in the final period of both the matchs we were watching and win. how irritating!
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 15:26   #17
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

the first arsenal goal was clearly offside, and if you watch the final pass in the second goal, it goes forward rather than laterally therefore it was offside too. Adebayor's offside goal was marginally offside, but it was more onside than the other two i suppose. Heskey's was definitely a penalty.

Re henry; a lot of football fans are now sick of his gallic 'le ****' attitude
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 15:59   #18
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Stop taking so much drugs, deffeh

And thumbs up for Lehman, our lovely grumpy german, for mocking Wigan with a lovely move to waste time.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 16:38   #19
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

To be fair nothing winds up a footballer/fan more than a team out to waste time from the off. Be defensive by all means, but wasting time from the first minute to whenever you go behind is just ****ing annoying.

Henry may have been a prick but in the situation - understandably so.

The problem with Arsenal is not that they have individual players who cheat a lot, it's just that when they cheat, they do it as a team, which suggests to me that they find cheating acceptable.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 18:14   #20
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

I watched that game and I didn't see any of this cheating. When did it occur and who perpetrated it specifically?

I also fail to see why Arsenal are responsible for the poor judgement of the match officals. The responsibility for the fact that these mistakes are still allowed to blight the game lies squarely at the door of the FA and UEFA for not introducing video review for goalmouth and certain other key incidents. As it stands however, there are times when these kinds of decisions go against every team. People who find it makes them cry in their cornflakes when it happens to their favourite club need to grow up a bit.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 22:41   #21
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The problem with Arsenal is not that they have individual players who cheat a lot, it's just that when they cheat, they do it as a team, which suggests to me that they find cheating acceptable.

i think that this hits the nail on the head, a lot of teams have individuals who cheat, everyone knows who they are, but its like arsenal have made almost a decision as a team to cheat, and have a manager who condones it, and even when provided examples of cheating, comes out with lines like 'i saw nothing wrong with that', until/unless this changes (which it wont under wenger) they will always have perhaps a worse reputation than they deserve, but they bring it upon themselves
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 22:51   #22
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
To be fair nothing winds up a footballer/fan more than a team out to waste time from the off. Be defensive by all means, but wasting time from the first minute to whenever you go behind is just ****ing annoying.

Henry may have been a prick but in the situation - understandably so.

The problem with Arsenal is not that they have individual players who cheat a lot, it's just that when they cheat, they do it as a team, which suggests to me that they find cheating acceptable.

Are you suggesting that Chris Kirkland isnt injury prone?

Oh, rosicky not even getting booked for a slide tackle from behind when the ball was already gone was pretty lol too. typical arsenal, really
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 23:37   #23
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Are you suggesting that Chris Kirkland isnt injury prone?

Oh, rosicky not even getting booked for a slide tackle from behind when the ball was already gone was pretty lol too. typical arsenal, really
No, it's just that I've seen Wigan and Watford pretty much do it this season at Fratton. People are having a go at Arsenal and rightly so, but Wigan are hardly angels either in this piece. Two occasions where Heskey could have stayed committed to the ball and scored.
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 01:02   #24
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
and if you watch the final pass in the second goal, it goes forward rather than laterally therefore it was offside too.
Er the ball going foward is irrelevent, rosicky was behind baptista when the ball was played so it was onside. Regardless, we've had plenty of offsides wrongly given against us blah de blah de blah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The problem with Arsenal is not that they have individual players who cheat a lot, it's just that when they cheat, they do it as a team, which suggests to me that they find cheating acceptable.
What, halfway through a passing move they pick up the ball and run like rugby players or something? Yes there are players who cheat and i wish they wouldn't but name me one side who hasn't. Calling the whole team cheats based on the actions of a few i find pretty offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i think that this hits the nail on the head, a lot of teams have individuals who cheat, everyone knows who they are, but its like arsenal have made almost a decision as a team to cheat, and have a manager who condones it, and even when provided examples of cheating, comes out with lines like 'i saw nothing wrong with that', until/unless this changes (which it wont under wenger) they will always have perhaps a worse reputation than they deserve, but they bring it upon themselves
He doesn't get asked in many interviews about diving, and probably the reason why he never comes out and openly criticises it, it he feels teams do the same to arsenal. Funny how people forget about how mourinho talked about this, about drogbas interview saying he cheated and didnt regret it, about ronaldos constant faggotry, about ferguson never criticising him for it etc, yet people remember when pires dived to keep our unbeaten run going and so forth.
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 02:20   #25
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Aye CF, whatever Arsenal does, we get the blame.

When we are on top of the Fair Play ranking, we are still a team who uses ugly tactics, according to these people (some of them are even blackburn rovers supports(!), a team who isnt exactly on the top of the Fair Play ranking).
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 03:30   #26
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

yeah and nuts proved bolton dont play long ball football
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 03:42   #27
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

It's time like these that remind me how great a substitute for nationalism supporting a football team is.
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 09:52   #28
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Aye CF, whatever Arsenal does, we get the blame.

When we are on top of the Fair Play ranking, we are still a team who uses ugly tactics, according to these people (some of them are even blackburn rovers supports(!), a team who isnt exactly on the top of the Fair Play ranking).
I didn't realise I'd accused Arsenal of using ugly tactics
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 04:27   #29
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

And Arsenal's performance against Bolton is just shocking.
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 06:38   #30
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

what on earth is your point?

"we always win but sometimes its deserved so therefore its never undeserved"

holy shit, by that logic chelsea play the best football in ****ing history
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 09:55   #31
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
And Arsenal's performance against Bolton is just shocking.
They played pretty well in a fair amount of the match. Their passing and tackling, especially for most of the first half, was just on another level compared to Bolton. They didn't take their chances, but on balance they deserved to win. Even if there was a little bit of time wasting occasionally, with the "ok, we'll just pass it around at the back a bit" stuff
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 15:56   #32
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
what on earth is your point?

"we always win but sometimes its deserved so therefore its never undeserved"

holy shit, by that logic chelsea play the best football in ****ing history
Arsenal played shit last night (apart from the first half). They shouldn't have won it. I'd rather see my team play brilliant football and lose than play shit football and grind results.

They miss two penalties, hit the post when it was an open goal, lose loads of goal-scoring opportunities especially the one-on-ones, lose the ball during passing a lot, can't tackle for shit... I could go on.


I'd rather not see Arsenal play like Chelsea.
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 16:17   #33
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

The problem with Arsenal (and to an extent, Barcelona) is that they see football in a very one dimensional way. They will stick to the same passing formula over and over again, yet there are games where such a way of playing amounts to very little. The criticism comes from the fact that the players available could change it up, play differently and beat the opposition regardless, but instead choose to get upset and start throwing themselves to the ground or get involved in petty skirmishes all over the pitch because they aren't being allowed to pass it and tackles are flying in.

United are easily the best footballing side in England right now, because they can play both ways, thus when a team makes it hard for them to play, they can grind out a result if they need to - against Bolton at the Reebok they ground out a goal, Bolton were forced to open up space and Bolton got dicked.. Arsenal fans may stick loyally to their 'football', try to take the footballing high ground (hypocrites), and complain but they are getting criticism thrown at them because no one likes seeing obvious talent losing when they didn't have to.
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 16:39   #34
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

I disagree with Blastoderm, the game against Bolton was a good match. For both the neutral observer and Arsenal fans alike, hell even Bolton supporters may have enjoyed it (apart from the fact that their team lost).

Arsenal played one touch alot of the match, instead of fidling around with the ball to much, thus lowering the pace of the game.

To me it seems that there has been a change recently in the way Arsenal tries to play, it seems much more pragmatic than before. They don't always try to play five-a-side inside the opponents box.
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 16:41   #35
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Arsenal fans may stick loyally to their 'football', try to take the footballing high ground (hypocrites), and complain but they are getting criticism thrown at them because no one likes seeing obvious talent losing when they didn't have to.
Blasto might prioritise the beautiful game, but I don't.


Against United while 1-0 down we lobbed the ball up to Adebayor and Henry for the last 20 minutes. There wasn't much slick passing straight from Lehmann's goal kicks as usual - we adjusted and won 2-1.

Not matter what anyone says, it's all about winning. I'm not keen on winning through diving/cheating, as I've said before, but I have no qualms about playing ugly football and grinding out results.
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Unread 15 Feb 2007, 16:43   #36
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I disagree with Blastoderm, the game against Bolton was a good match. For both the neutral observer and Arsenal fans alike, hell even Bolton supporters may have enjoyed it (apart from the fact that their team lost).

Arsenal played one touch alot of the match, instead of fidling around with the ball to much, thus lowering the pace of the game.

To me it seems that there has been a change recently in the way Arsenal tries to play, it seems much more pragmatic than before. They don't always try to play five-a-side inside the opponents box.
I agree.
Though their final touch let them down (and that has been mentioned), some of their football was damn good. for about 30 minutes in the first half they were in complete control, playing a lot of 1 touch football and at many points taking the ball of bolton almost at will whilst almost never losing the ball. They won just about every 50-50.
It was only in the second half that Bolton started to play, but even so Arsenal still had their fair share of possession, and their best chances came in the second half.
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 16:01   #37
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

I think there seems to be a distinct tendency for people to dislike the london clubs in particular. Arsenal and Chelsea both receive a lot of stick whereas liverpool and man u seem to be the golden boys. If you watch football on Sky like i do its staggering how much the supposedly unbiased presenters romanticise about the 'historic' liverpool and man u teams... as if that has anything to do with the personality of the teams today!
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 16:04   #38
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

I wouldnt say the london based media is biased against london. (but i am)
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 16:06   #39
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

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I wouldnt say the london based media is biased against london. (but i am)
Statistically speaking, a random person in London is more likely to hate a given London team than someone from outside of London.

Probably.
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 16:45   #40
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Plus there haven't really been historic Arsenal and Chelsea teams.
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 19:11   #41
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

It never ceases to amaze me how many utterly worthless comments John Motson can fit into ninety minutes plus stoppage time. Truly the man is some sort of genius.
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 20:25   #42
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Fortunately I watched the game wearing headphones listening to music.



I say watching the game, I mean sleeping and occasionally checking the score and shouting loudly when reading equalised.
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Unread 17 Feb 2007, 20:31   #43
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It never ceases to amaze me how many utterly worthless comments John Motson can fit into ninety minutes plus stoppage time. Truly the man is some sort of genius.
I find his ability to mention Wayne Rooney at least 5 times per game to be his truly remarkable feature. Especially when it's not Manchester United or England.
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Unread 18 Feb 2007, 01:38   #44
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Johnathan Pearce on the other hand made Arsenal Blackburn bearable.

Bring back Barry Davies.
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Unread 18 Feb 2007, 01:50   #45
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

That's a fully fledged b*****d of a good point Lokken. I was trying to think of worthy commentators and I could only come up with those that annoyed, including Brian Moore god bless him. Even Ray Winstone would admit that Davies is the daddy of verbal dribblings.
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Unread 18 Feb 2007, 02:25   #46
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Re: [Football] Its games like today..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It never ceases to amaze me how many utterly worthless comments John Motson can fit into ninety minutes plus stoppage time. Truly the man is some sort of genius.
true

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Johnathan Pearce on the other hand made Arsenal Blackburn bearable.

Bring back Barry Davies.
false (unless you are being sarcastic. barry davies was always awful)
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