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Unread 8 Jan 2007, 10:46   #51
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
I'm either going to read Night Shift by pratchett next or some book on the history of western political thought, or something different!
Nightwatch (:P) is quite an interesting book (spun off from Thief of Time, if you've read that) that's actually a bit darker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Well, i threw A storm of Swords at my sister when THAT happend in that book.. Is it worse than what happend in A storm of swords? *Note, the Starks are my faves*
Actually, I was getting the books confused. THAT is what I was thinking of. I'm sure there was some sort of "omfg how could you have done that" moment in aFoC, but I can't remember what it is - he's running out of people to kill off!

I stalked around the house sulking at people and refused to read the book for at least half a day...
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Unread 8 Jan 2007, 10:48   #52
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

While talking to my cousin a few weeks back I accidentally mentioned that bit thinking it was in a book she'd already read.


I was wrong
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Unread 8 Jan 2007, 19:00   #53
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Nightwatch (:P) is quite an interesting book (spun off from Thief of Time, if you've read that) that's actually a bit darker


Actually, I was getting the books confused. THAT is what I was thinking of. I'm sure there was some sort of "omfg how could you have done that" moment in aFoC, but I can't remember what it is - he's running out of people to kill off!

I stalked around the house sulking at people and refused to read the book for at least half a day...
Yeah, he tends to kill of people you get attached too.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 01:25   #54
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

hurray for me, hurray for me, wednesday the fun will begin.

I ORDERED A FEAST FOR CROWS

hurray for me, hurray for me, wednesday the fun will begin.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 10:11   #55
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

It's really not that good

But that in itself is a good thing, because the next book will be packed with the interesting characters that were removed from AFFC in order to cut down the word length.

Due to be released sometime in the next five to ten years \o/
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 11:23   #56
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

:(((( I always hate it when I started with a series and then find out that it isn't completed yet and that I have to wait several freaking years for it.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 13:09   #57
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
It's really not that good

But that in itself is a good thing, because the next book will be packed with the interesting characters that were removed from AFFC in order to cut down the word length.

Due to be released sometime in the next five to ten years \o/
It was supposed to be released late last year so hopefully some time this year isn't too much to ask for
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 17:35   #58
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It was supposed to be released late last year so hopefully some time this year isn't too much to ask for
There is an update on his webpage
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 21:02   #59
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

En Himmel full av stjerner av Knut Nærum
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 15:44   #60
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Donald Duck \o/
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 15:57   #61
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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"ERROR: Nickname Not Found!" - your signature needs to be updated mr.kraut!

edit: and what kind of a ....ing website is that nitroplex thing
http://www.vespro.com/nitroplex-faq.php ?
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 05:17   #62
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
shield of thunder by david gemmell, his last book before he died :(
Noooooooooooo :(((

I only recently got into reading his books and I had no idea he was dead. I think i'm going to re-read the waylander novels as a memorial.
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 13:44   #63
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Conn Iggulden - Wolf Of The Plains

Excellent book from the author of the Empire series.

Would interest anyone with a penchant for the history of the Mongols.
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 13:46   #64
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosie
Noooooooooooo ((

I only recently got into reading his books and I had no idea he was dead. I think i'm going to re-read the waylander novels as a memorial.
Apparently his wife is finishing the trilogy off using his notes and all the test writers and contributors he used to use.

I hope they do a good job as the first two books were some of his best.
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 14:55   #65
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
Apparently his wife is finishing the trilogy off using his notes and all the test writers and contributors he used to use.

I hope they do a good job as the first two books were some of his best.

qft


although i think that the first was better than the second tbh
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 15:07   #66
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Peter Ackroyd, Chatteron . I thought I'd start with his most praised work. Wasn't dissapointed. Will start on Hawks Moor some time tomorrow, though it's a rather slow read since it hasnt yet been translated into romanian, so I'llhave to read it in english.
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Unread 16 Jan 2007, 13:59   #67
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
There is an update on his webpage
Just finished the book, intresting read, can't wait for the next one
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Unread 19 Jan 2007, 16:29   #68
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Currently reading "Right Ho, Jeeves " and "Bored of the Rings".

According to Amazon "A Dance with Dragons" will be out in August, though I'm not holding my breath. I'll be dead by the time he finally finishes this series
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Unread 19 Jan 2007, 16:36   #69
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

probably, unfortunately.

The thing is, he prolly has the complete storyline already written out and the most part of his writing is how he brings it and the details and little subplots ...
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Unread 19 Jan 2007, 17:17   #70
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

currently reading
Dean Koontz's "Strangers"

Just finished about 5 book by Brother Strugatsy's in original. Having some problems accuratly translating the names. Its hard to bring the meaning of words when they are played like they are in their novels.
Brilliant and highly political sci-fi reading. Reflects alot on old USSR's structure and its downfalls. Try and read them if u get a good translation (eventho i doubt it will be as good. If u can read russian, i HIGHLY recommend then as authors of fantastic books)

Edit: found a quick review online about authors
Quote:
STRUGATSKY BROTHERS

Arkady Natanovich Strugatsky and Boris Natanovich Strugatsky are probably the most famous Russian SF authors. They became the spiritual leaders of Russian science fiction literature in the 60-s, and to this day, their influence remains immense.

Entire generations were brought up on their books, and the authors managed to impress their ideas and principles on millions and millions of people. The number of their fans in Russia is really impossible to count, and even abroad, their works have found way to the hearts of the readers. The key to their success is, in their own words, that they write "about adventures of the spirit, and not about adventures of the body."

Any Strugatskys' work is very different from an ordinary SF book in that it is not "pure science fiction." Strugatskys always write about people and their problems, and not about spaceships, technology or other things that the ordinary SF literature is full of. There are so many layers of ideas and thoughts in their works that you have to read them several times if you want to really grasp all that authors packed in. Their books stir up the desire to understand other people.

"Thinking is not entertainment but an obligation!"

This is the Strugatskys' main slogan, and I totally agree with it.
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Unread 19 Jan 2007, 18:45   #71
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

At the time you made this thread I read "The Chamber" by John Grisham. Quite a good book about a lawyer trying to save his grandfather from the gas chamber.

Always meant to read the LOTR books, so I wanted them for Christmas. Finished #1 two days ago and have now started on #2. I'm not too thrilled about the books, but I guess a lot of the excitement were taken away by the movies.
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Unread 19 Jan 2007, 21:35   #72
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

im reading grapes of wrath and collapse by jared diamond

and i must say i am having the greatest reading experience in my life
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 12:38   #73
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
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I had a justified belief that ur mum is fat because I saw a photo and its true that ur mum is fat but the photo I saw was actually of your sister so did I know ur mum was fat???
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
You had a justified belief which wasn't true. In future I'd research my material better.
Reread Nodrog's scenario, JonnyB. The belief is true. But the reason that he has the belief is unrelated to the truth of the belief. But no, this still isn't considered knowledge. That's a simple - though rather abusive - Gettier counterexample to the traditional JTB analysis of knowledge.

I'm reading Alan Gibbard's Thinking How to Live.

Philosophy for life.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 13:01   #74
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
Reread Nodrog's scenario, JonnyB. The belief is true.
that depends how you use the word true.

I'd spend more time reading a dictionary if i were you.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 13:46   #75
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
Just finished the book, intresting read, can't wait for the next one
I think i just creamed my pants:
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/news.html

-for thoose who hates to click links:

Main essence is: HBO is gonna make a television series of the series A song of Ice and Fire!
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 13:52   #76
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
that depends how you use the word true.

I'd spend more time reading a dictionary if i were you.
It's true, I'm still somewhat ambivalent about the debate between robust and minimalist definitions of truth, but I don't think that's what you had in mind. You're just trying to insult me. Let's go back to the original scenario, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I had a justified belief that ur mum is fat because I saw a photo and its true that ur mum is fat but the photo I saw was actually of your sister so did I know ur mum was fat???
This is a hideous run-on, but it expresses a few distinct propositions.
1) I have a justified belief that your mum is fat.
2) The belief is justified by virtue of evidence (in the form of a photo)
3) Your mum is fat.
4) The photo was not of your mum, but rather of your sister.

The belief in question (as expressed in (1)) is that your mum is fat. (3) says that this belief is true. I think that's all that needs to be said on the matter. There might be some further beliefs relevent to this story, i.e. the belief that it is your mum in the photo. THAT belief would be false. But that's not the belief being evaluated.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 15:00   #77
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
You're just trying to insult me. Let's go back to the original scenario, shall we?
I am bringing to your attention a mistake which you have made.

I take no interest in how you choose to react to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
This is a hideous run-on, but it expresses a few distinct propositions.
1) I have a justified belief that your mum is fat.
2) The belief is justified by virtue of evidence (in the form of a photo)
3) Your mum is fat.
4) The photo was not of your mum, but rather of your sister.

The belief in question (as expressed in (1)) is that your mum is fat. (3) says that this belief is true. I think that's all that needs to be said on the matter. There might be some further beliefs relevent to this story, i.e. the belief that it is your mum in the photo. THAT belief would be false. But that's not the belief being evaluated.
You have made two errors. The one which I originally highlighted (Error A) and now a new one (Error B).

Error A:

The fact that Nodrog held the belief was true. Whether the belief was factually correct is unknown. Hence at the same time the belief is both 'true' and 'untrue' depending upon how you use the word. This is a common mistake to make with the English language; again I would recommend you keep a dictionary handy.

Error B:

(3) Your Mum is fat. This conclusion can not be reached.

So in conclusion ...

Please do not assume that I am insulting you merely because you happen to be wrong. We are all wrong at times. What I would ask is that you use simpler language because it seems that you confuse yourself quite easily.

I would also ask that in future when a joke is made you do not try to analyse it. Analysis can ruin the fun you see.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 16:37   #78
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Morte
collapse by jared diamond
I've been meaning to pick this up after I read Guns, Germs and Steel by him. I take it it's a book worth reading then?
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 20:01   #79
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I think we're just reading Nodrog's original scenario differently. You are reading the statement "your mum is fat" only as a conclusion derived from the evidence of the photo. That conclusion is clearly invalid. The way I am reading it is that it is both a conclusion derived from the photographic evidence, as well as an additional premise to the entire argument. As I read it, Nodrog is saying that you have a belief based on (bad) evidence, and it also happens to be the case that this belief is true.

I think I have a good reason for reading the scenario this way. Nodrog's first response was to another poster saying they had read a review of epistemology, and this is a standard scenario in epistemology - when someone has a reason to believe something based on evidence that turns out to be bad, but the belief is still true. Another example would be me looking at the clock on the wall and coming to believe that it is 1:30 pm because that's what the clock says. Unbeknownst to me, the clock stopped at 1:30 last night, so it doesn't really give me a good reason to believe anything about the time. However, it does just happen to be 1:30 pm. This case is exactly analagous to my reading of Nodrog's post, and thus I believe it is the correct one. But Nodrog's first post is so gramatically indeterminate that I don't want to insist on my reading over yours, at the risk of this becoming an incredibly stupid argument, instead of just a rather stupid argument.

Also, I take issue with your analysis of truth. You say that, if there is no way to know whether "your mum is fat" is true or false, then it is neither true nor false. Or perhaps both true and false. But that cannot be the case. There is clearly a fact of the matter over whether or not your mum is fat. There is an actual state of affairs. And according to my dictionary (which I do keep handy)

True
1 a : STEADFAST, LOYAL b : HONEST, JUST c archaic : TRUTHFUL
2 a (1) : being in accordance with the actual state of affairs <true description> (2) : conformable to an essential reality (3) : fully realized or fulfilled <dreams come true> b : IDEAL, ESSENTIAL c : being that which is the case rather than what is manifest or assumed <the true dimension of the problem> d : CONSISTENT <true to character>

So if it is the case that your mum is fat, then the belief that your mum is fat IS true.

The reason I'm making this argument at all was because your first post may well have been a joke, but if so, it was certainly a joke at my expense. You are insulting me by calling me wrong, which I'm really not, and thus I defend my honor.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 20:04   #80
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

That naughty yahwe, attacking your honour like that. What is the internet coming to?
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 20:05   #81
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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That naughty yahwe, attacking your honour like that. What is the internet coming to?
Evil times, my friend. Evil times.
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Unread 20 Jan 2007, 20:05   #82
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Yeah, it was intended as a gettier statement
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Unread 21 Jan 2007, 12:26   #83
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
There is clearly a fact of the matter over whether or not your mum is fat.
No there isn't. There is an un-supported assertion.

Therein lies the flaw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
The reason I'm making this argument at all was because your first post may well have been a joke, but if so, it was certainly a joke at my expense. You are insulting me by calling me wrong, which I'm really not, and thus I defend my honor.
Nodrog's post was the joke which you analysed.

I find nothing humourous in your belligerent ignorance.
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Unread 21 Jan 2007, 14:25   #84
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Just starting to re-read E.E. 'Doc' Smith's Lensman series.

Trashy good sci-fi with a decent plotline. Perfect for planes!
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Unread 22 Jan 2007, 03:06   #85
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
((( I always hate it when I started with a series and then find out that it isn't completed yet and that I have to wait several freaking years for it.

i'm just re-reading tad williams - shadowmarch as book 2 is due out in march .. almost 3 years after book 1

i blame myself for reading authors that write really slowly.
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Unread 22 Jan 2007, 03:09   #86
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I think i just creamed my pants:
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/news.html

-for thoose who hates to click links:

Main essence is: HBO is gonna make a television series of the series A song of Ice and Fire!

just dont expect too much .. its an american network, and screen adaptions rarely come close to whats in your mind :-(

for example - earthsea
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Unread 22 Jan 2007, 11:59   #87
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

It will have lots of fighting and great special effects, I just hope they catch the atmosphere right ...
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Unread 22 Jan 2007, 16:13   #88
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I have just purchased Bill Bryson's A short history of nearly everything, which so far is jolly good!
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Unread 24 Jan 2007, 21:00   #89
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm reading the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy set now.
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Unread 24 Jan 2007, 21:11   #90
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Havent seen the film though so might be decent then?
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Unread 24 Jan 2007, 21:24   #91
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
the film is shit, the book is good.
or so i hear.
he is correct,
surprisingly
how's your e-gym doing, bro ^.^ ?
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Unread 24 Jan 2007, 23:32   #92
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
the film is shit, the book is good.
or so i hear.
The radio show is good, the books are good, the TV show is flawed, but decent.

The film is utter arse.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 00:07   #93
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The radio show is good, the books are good, the TV show is flawed, but decent.

The film is utter arse.
Agreed, part from the new marvin ...
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 06:11   #94
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
tell uz more about that pls!
A robust definition of truth is the usual way that we think about statements of the type "X is true." This ascribes some property - that of being true - to the proposition X.

Minimalists, on the other hand, believe that there is no real sense in which "is true" is a meaningful predicate - it does not add anything to the statement X. Saying "X is true" is just the same as saying "X". The reason we have the truth predicate to begin with is as a way of summarizing. A friend of mine might utter a long conjunctive thought - "grass is green and snow is white and water is wet and summer is hot." If I want to agree with him, and I don't have the truth predicate, I would have to restate everything he just said. But instead I can just say "That's true." Truth really serves as a stand-in for that large thought.

The upshot of this is that it makes questions like "but is that true?" close to meaningless. If I say that "The Allies won World War 2" and someone asks "Is that true?", they are not asking if some predicate of truth applies to the statement "The Allies won World War 2." Instead, they are asking "DID the Allies win World War 2?", with the longer question being replaces by the more terse truth term.

On one hand, we feel like minimalism cannot possible be correct. I want to say that when I utter "X is true," I am actually saying something over and above simply "X". But it is incredibly difficult to pick out exactly what is being added.

That's just a short summary; entire books have been written on this. But it should give you a feel for the debate.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 06:27   #95
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
No there isn't. There is an un-supported assertion.

Therein lies the flaw.
"Your mum is fat" is an unsupported assertion, but only in a certain context. If I were only attempting to use this assertion as a conclusion of some argument, where my evidence was provided only by the photo, then I would indeed be in sorry shape. But "Your mum is fat" is not only the conclusion of that argument. Nodrog confirmed as much when he said that he was, in fact, setting up a Gettier case.

Two different things are happening here. First, the person who has access to the photo has drawn the conclusion "your mum is fat." He has what he believes to be good evidence for this conclusion, but in fact it is not; the assertion is, in that sense, unsupported. The other thing that is going on here, which you seem to be repeatedly missing, is that NODROG, as the person who created this case, has stipulated that your mum is indeed fat. He has stated that there is a fact of the matter, while none of the evidence gives our photo-observer any good way of knowing what that fact of the matter is.

So if we are from the perspective of the photo-observer, i.e. within the scenario, then "your mom is fat" is unsupported. But we are outside this scenario looking in, introduced by Nodrog to this case of a misguided man holding a photograph. We are in a position to ask Nodrog if, all misleading evidence aside, it really is the case that "your mom" is fat. And he has told us that she is.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 07:05   #96
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I was actually just making the joke that my mum wasn't in fact fat (because she is see so it's like irony but not however she's actually not and I just made it all up for the joke). Largely I'd hold that the actual confusion in this issue arises from linguistic differences, ie we don't actually define what we mean by "know". This happens a lot though so it's not really too big a deal. After all an empty box is rarely empty!


Edit: Apologies horn, I never actually told you what I was reading, A Contemporary Review of the Theory of Knowledge or something like that (i can't see the book right now, hidden among the other, forest, trees, double zing, etc). Anyways it was by Robert Audi. I didn't like it that much, bit of a tome really
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 07:28   #97
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I was actually just making the joke that my mum wasn't in fact fat (because she is see so it's like irony but not however she's actually not and I just made it all up for the joke). Largely I'd hold that the actual confusion in this issue arises from linguistic differences, ie we don't actually define what we mean by "know". This happens a lot though so it's not really too big a deal. After all an empty box is rarely empty!
OH. I thought you said Nodrog didn't know about epistemology, when he was clearly framing a good Gettier case. Stupid terse forum posts.

And yes, we still don't have a good solution to what we mean by "knowledge," ever since Edmund Gettier ruined Justified True Belief for us. But that's what analytic philosophy is all about - making problems for itself that it can't solve.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 07:33   #98
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

A true belief based on true premises arrived at by valid reasoning!
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 07:54   #99
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Has anyone read 'The Thirteenth Tale' by Diane Setterfield, one of the book clubs sent it to me because I forgot to tell them not to send the feature of the month. I was wondering if it was worth reading, or should I send it back.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 08:05   #100
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm currently reading Larrie, Prescott and Vitoria - The Modern Law of Copyright and Designs (3rd edn). Since it helpfully covers almost everything I need for this essay, I really like it!

It's well-written and appropriately concise where it needs to be. Good footnoting means that you can find what you're looking for fairly easily, which is always handy when your essay's due in in 5 hours time.


English and Welsh law is inconsistent in the way it treats photographs and films: photographs are treated as artistic works requiring originality for copyright to arise, yet films are treated as entrepreneurial works, that is works for which no originality is required in order for copyright to arise. Discuss.



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