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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 20:22   #1
Deffeh
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[Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Chelsea or Man Utd.

It has to be man utd simply because they play better football, and even with their prawn sandwich brigade and American owners are a much more palatable lot than Chelski. They have also got to where they are by actually growing as a club rather than just receiving huge artificial investment.

Both teams have divers, but chelsea have usurped even arsenal 04 for this.

Man utd in their pomp scored a lot of late goals, but not this many, and they usually (unfortunately) deserved to win.

I think this is all exemplified by the fact i have man utd and arsenal supporting friends who i go out and support their teams with, and they come out and support liverpool. I dont recall any team being as unpopular as chelsea are just now.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 20:24   #2
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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It has to be man utd
And nobody likes the Russian dude and his money.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 20:58   #3
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

I do.

Chelsea ftw!
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 21:37   #4
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Anyone else than Chelski.

Watching Drogba dive when coming in close contact with a lightly-built teenage r, Fabregas, just takes the piss.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 21:41   #5
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

My best friend is a rabid Liverpool supporter who although he HATES Chelsea he despises Man U far more. As such he would rather anybody win rather than Man U. So although i like neither i'm gonna have to side with my bezzie mate and say "of the two i would prefer chelsea to win".

(on a personal level i prefer Man U to Chelsea but life's easier if i just side with my friend on something i'm not too fussed about)
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 22:11   #6
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

This is a hard call to make. I've zero affinity to either team. I don’t particularly like either manager or the attitude of the players but most importantly I don’t have much respect for fans.

In retrospect it's impossible to call, so sorry but I’m going to have to dodge the question.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 22:50   #7
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Lesser of two evils. Tbh id have to say Chelsea just because i know so many unbearable people who cheer for united. And UNited has spent just as much money on their squad as Chelsea just over a longer period of time.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 22:50   #8
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maladoni
This is a hard call to make. I've zero affinity to either team. I don’t particularly like either manager or the attitude of the players but most importantly I don’t have much respect for fans.

In retrospect it's impossible to call, so sorry but I’m going to have to dodge the question.
toonside, you say.

Doesn't 'I would LOVE it if we beat them' mean anything to you?
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 23:26   #9
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I think injuries will decide it.
Especially when they're to your top two goalkeepers.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 23:35   #10
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

the idea of a club having 'two top goalkeepers' is sort of a mini encapsulation of why chelsea are so frustrating.

moron-yo went to a 2-3-3-2 today and they somehow scaffed a goal from that stoner kirkland
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 23:37   #11
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Lesser of two evils. Tbh id have to say Chelsea just because i know so many unbearable people who cheer for united. And UNited has spent just as much money on their squad as Chelsea just over a longer period of time.
I think Chelsea's squad cost much, much more than Uniteds. At a guess I'd say the players Mourinho can pick from cost at least 100 million more than those at the disposal of Ferguson.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 23:40   #12
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
the idea of a club having 'two top goalkeepers' is sort of a mini encapsulation of why chelsea are so frustrating.

moron-yo went to a 2-3-3-2 today and they somehow scaffed a goal from that stoner kirkland
It's hardly a revolutionary idea. It didn't even begin with the Russian. We had a great keeper, bought a better one and kept them both. Chelsea have done that for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Mage
I think Chelsea's squad cost much, much more than Uniteds. At a guess I'd say the players Mourinho can pick from cost at least 100 million more than those at the disposal of Ferguson.
Chelsea have been ripped off massively for a number of players which would have been sold for less had Chelsea not had the money. Another club could have bught Shaun Wright-Phillips for a lot less than £21 million.
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Unread 23 Dec 2006, 23:49   #13
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

poor chelsea having to spend 21m of limitless money
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 00:00   #14
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
the idea of a club having 'two top goalkeepers' is sort of a mini encapsulation of why chelsea are so frustrating.
Goalkeepers are probably not the best example of where Chelsea have been overspending, with one coming on a free some six years ago, and the other costing £7m, which is fairly good value when you consider how good he's been for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
poor chelsea having to spend 21m of limitless money
The point does remain that the economics are different. Would you think that West Ham and Saints would have sold their players for so little if they had known the amounts that would have been thrown around subsequently? Would another club have spent quite so much on two defenders from Mourinho's old Porto team?
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 00:01   #15
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
toonside, you say.

Doesn't 'I would LOVE it if we beat them' mean anything to you?
There seems to be a redundant cache file in long terms deletions that contains "LOVE IT", but the rest is missing. Syntax Error.

For some reason the random word "Collymore" makes me Blue Screen. I'll not be coming back to this thread.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 01:18   #16
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

As an Arsenal fan who passionately hated Man U for a long time, I still want to see them win it. Anyone but Chelsea, so to speak. I might have hated Man U but I still respected them. I can't say the same for Chelsea.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 01:27   #17
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

I've supported Chelsea for most of my life, and I hope we win the premiership again this season, although watching Drogba and Robben dive just make me feel ashamed of supporting the club, but then again, I like Ronaldo's football but hate him for his diving, I think that Drogba and Robben are way more bearable than Ronaldo.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 01:42   #18
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Portsmouth.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 01:51   #19
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

We gooners think alike, furball
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 02:36   #20
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Yeah, I support Arsenal too and although I've long hated Man Utd, I'd prefer them to win it over Chelsea. It's still difficult to be ecstatic when they score, though.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 06:19   #21
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Chelsea have no soul, no history, no joy. More so than other premier clubs, their players are only there for the money. I quite like Mourinho though, he's an entertainer even if his team isn't.

It would be good for the game if Chelsea won nothing this year, so Man U are temporarily forgiven
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 12:11   #22
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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Originally Posted by 1-X
Chelsea have no soul, no history, no joy.
This argument is bollocks. Wigan have no history, and I bet they are bloody joyful as to where they are. Now Chelsea have a history, they are basically a cockney club, not unlike Millwall, who spent their time between the prem and div 1. The thugs who used to reside in the shed on a saturday afternoon are probably happy as ****ing larry.

Quote:
More so than other premier clubs, their players are only there for the money.
There are plenty of mercenaries in our league, and I'm sure there are quite a few at Chelsea. The premiership's 2nd bottom club (Charlton) is a fantastic case of this.

Quote:
I quite like Mourinho though, he's an entertainer even if his team isn't.
I disagree. Lets face it they are the only team in Europe who we've seen able to compete with a fully fit Barcelona side and they do so with power. I think they're vastly improved by Robben, but I have no problem with a side that is solid and then uses an attacking gameplan later - this is tactics. Mourinho has brought tactics to the premiership, although that's mainly because he has the squad to be able to let him drastically shift them, with only 5 subs.

Quote:
It would be good for the game if Chelsea won nothing this year, so Man U are temporarily forgiven
No one minded Chelsea when Ranieri was in charge, I thought he gave it a good go, and was perhaps unfairly sacked, as it wasn't til the season after, that his really vital buys (Cech, Robben etc) came to the club. When Ranieri was in charge, I think it was good for the game if Chelsea won the league.

United are playing with something close to the verve they used to have, although they need a driving force in midfield to really fight chelsea to the finish. They are undoubtedly playing the better football - the goal difference says a lot. Yesterday was their most impressive result, I thought to make Villa look ragged was a pretty good show. At the minute, no side deserves to win the league more than United, and that's nothing to do with how Chelsea are playing.

What's to hate about Chelsea? Here to me are the real reasons:

They have fans who don't realise that a lot of their history is very similar to a lot of shit south london clubs, although okay, they've won the league once before. United have always attracted bandwagoners, as to be fair, they are one of the biggest clubs in the world, so idiots are bound to congregate but Chelsea, lets face it are a medium size club. They are giving it the big one at how they are such a massive club, but they are not a massive club. Maybe they are as big as Tottenham, purely because of their recent success. But Arsenal, United, Liverpool? Do me a favour.

They pay excessive transfer fees - this has caused football to suffer in two senses: the transfer market staying silly (£18M for Carrick, Benfica wanting £12M for Fernandes, Real have just paid over £10M for some young Argie) and Chelsea buying players just to stop other clubs from having them or treating players like trophies. The demise of players like Shevchenko (who does not belong in English football, he is different since he went to Milan), Wright Phillips and players that don't quite make the first team out of lack of football is a big miss for football. At the same time, they are encouraged to stay, because the wages are probably unreal. There's nothing wrong with spending big if the player is worth it but they just aren't.

Ticket Prices. I don't care if you are in Chelsea. £50 for a football ticket. It's stunts like this that make other clubs think it's okay to charge too much because they want to 'compete' and joe ordinary fan gets priced out. This is ****ing stupid.

Mourinho. Now there's a lot to love about him, but a lot to hate. His barracking of referees, this season especially has been shocking. It's as bad as United were when they started losing their dominance and resorted to hounding down the referee. Maybe like them he will learn and reign it in a bit. He seems to want to provoke people all the time.

All this bollocks about hating Chelsea/United is a load of rubbish, people hate them because they are winning and that's just jealousy. There are teams like Liverpool, Newcastle, Tottenham and West Ham who have vast swathes of fans who are so drunk on delusions of grandeur that when you think about it, they are far easier to hate. You know what I mean; fans who want to sack the manager one week then come out of the woodwork and call their team world class the next. It's these kind of spineless wankers we need to eliminate from football; just watch the scousers, when they win they are all out in uniform, when they lose there isn't one to be seen. The same can be said of the geordies or the yids who put fantastic amounts of pressure on their side if they aren't 1-0 up in 20 minutes.

No one really mentions any of them enough, probably because they aren't winning.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 13:24   #23
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
It's hardly a revolutionary idea. It didn't even begin with the Russian. We had a great keeper, bought a better one and kept them both. Chelsea have done that for years.



Chelsea have been ripped off massively for a number of players which would have been sold for less had Chelsea not had the money. Another club could have bught Shaun Wright-Phillips for a lot less than £21 million.

Right... time for a rant.

2 Goalkeepers? Okay fair enough and its shocking the injuries that happened to both of them in that game. But the thing that pissed me off about it was the press instantly saying you were going to buy buffon, or barthez or some shit because its expected that your prick of a manager can go suck off his chairman to get more money to buy the best players.

And i dont know how you can talk about Shaun Wright-Phillips as thats another player youve literally ****ed up by not having any chance to play. When he comes on he's one of the players with flair and energy and normally creates a chance for himself and one for someone else in a very short space of time. Now if he was playing for Arsenal (Heaven Forbid) or even somewhere like Bolton/Villa/Newcastle he'd be an instant regular, be 1st team for England and who knows what he could achieve.

Now on to being ripped off... Andriy Shevchenko. Doesnt start off very well so he's cut from the side, relegated to the bench and soon he'l be out of the club. Now i wouldnt be surprised to see Luca Toni or Torres come in for Chelsea in January. Just because you simply have a ridiculous amount of money that no team can match. Man Utd spent everything that had for Wayne Rooney who only now is coming really good, Chelsea spent that much on Sheva and will do it again in January/Next summer probably twice. Ruud Van Nistelrooy came to Man Utd and didnt score for like 11 games or something, Sheva has had 9 starts or something similar i believe and has scored and now he's cut? Shows how much of a prick Mourinho truly is.

Man Utd to win the league and Chelsea to go and die.

Oh on a side note, i laughed my head off when Heskey head butted Carvalho yesterday. Made my xmas weekend. Carvalho is a cheating twat. Every corner/Free kick he has his arms wrapped around players without fail.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 13:40   #24
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

i have to say i would rather manutd won the league, as it would prove that money isnt everything
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 13:50   #25
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i have to say i would rather manutd won the league, as it would prove that money isnt everything
if by 'manutd' you mean 'watford' or 'bolton' or 'sheff utd' then fair dos. if however you mean 'man utd' then hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:04   #26
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

I dislike Chelsea. They play a rubbish and uninteresting brand of football I don't like to see succeed. Utd or Arsenal play the best football in the premiership generally.


Also money is everything in football. It's just that it's more apparent with some teams.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:20   #27
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Man U over chelsea easily.

It will also piss off those ex-man u fans who went off to start their own club up.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:30   #28
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
2 Goalkeepers? Okay fair enough and its shocking the injuries that happened to both of them in that game. But the thing that pissed me off about it was the press instantly saying you were going to buy buffon, or barthez or some shit because its expected that your prick of a manager can go suck off his chairman to get more money to buy the best players.
The press claimed that Kevin Phillips had agreed to move to Arsenal a few seasons ago. The press claimed that we'd be seeing David Beckham playing for Spurs. The press claimed that Dean Whitehead was going to Liverpool, that Buffon was going to Manchester United, that Trezuguet was going to Arsenal, that any player you could name was going anywhere. Chelsea showed that the speculation wasn't founded in anything tangiable, I don't know how you can blame them for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
And i dont know how you can talk about Shaun Wright-Phillips as thats another player youve literally ****ed up by not having any chance to play. When he comes on he's one of the players with flair and energy and normally creates a chance for himself and one for someone else in a very short space of time.
We must be watching a different SWP. When he comes on, I see someone who gives the ball away in dangerous areas, who doesn't track back enough and leaves space that can be exploited. Joe Cole had these problems, and more - but he removed it from his game, and were he not injured he'd be always challenging for a spot in the team. SWP hasn't, despite this being pointed out as a weakness in his game from the instant he arrived at Chelsea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Now on to being ripped off... Andriy Shevchenko. Doesnt start off very well so he's cut from the side, relegated to the bench and soon he'l be out of the club. Now i wouldnt be surprised to see Luca Toni or Torres come in for Chelsea in January. Just because you simply have a ridiculous amount of money that no team can match.
I would be very surprised if either of those came in. I'd be surprised if anyone came in.

On the topic of those two, Luca Toni is Italian, and italians rarely leave the Italian leagues, especially when they're at one of the better clubs or in the national team. People tend to be forgotten when they leave Italy, although how the former Juventus players do in Spain may change that.

As for Fernando Torres, he is not worth the hype. He scored fewer goals than Frank Lampard last season, in more games, and he's not having the best of seasons in Madrid at the moment. He'd be much worse than Sheva.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Man Utd spent everything that had for Wayne Rooney who only now is coming really good
This has been, by far, Rooney's worst season, either in a United shirt or out of it. His touch has been off, he's been off the pace, his passing and shooting have gone awry time and time again. He scored a hat trick on his Manchester United debut, it's now more noteworthy if he scores a goal. He's improved dramatically from the start of the season, where he looked more like a striker from League 2 who's won a competition to appear for Manchester United, but he has been nowhere near his best. Just because Match of the Day and the like erase all possibility of a drop in form for the England Wonder Boy from history doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Ruud Van Nistelrooy came to Man Utd and didnt score for like 11 games or something, Sheva has had 9 starts or something similar i believe and has scored and now he's cut? Shows how much of a prick Mourinho truly is.
The season he arrived, Van Nistelrooy scored in preseason, he scored on his debut in the Charity Shield, he scored two on his Old Trafford debut, he finished joint top scorer in Europe, set the Premiership record for scoring in the most consecutive games and was the PFA player of the season. You might be thinking of when he scored his first hat trick, which was in the middle of December against Saints.

On the plus side, at least you show a consistent disregard for the facts of football.

Back to Sheva, he does need more time to settle in the English game. Drogba certainly needed it. However, I don't think that Sheva was dropped in order to drop Sheva. It's no hidden secret that Chelsea have played better when operating out of the narrow 4-4-2 that having Drogba, Sheva, Lampard and Ballack in the same team necessitated. They're behind in the title race, so Mourinho didn't have the luxury of being able to wait for people to bed in correctly, and one of the four had to go. Shevchenko was playing the worst, so Shevchenko is the one that went.

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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:32   #29
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Man U over chelsea easily.

It will also piss off those ex-man u fans who went off to start their own club up.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't for them. How exactly are you supposed to act when something like the Glazer takeover occurs for your club?
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:48   #30
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Right... time for a rant.

2 Goalkeepers? Okay fair enough and its shocking the injuries that happened to both of them in that game. But the thing that pissed me off about it was the press instantly saying you were going to buy buffon, or barthez or some shit because its expected that your prick of a manager can go suck off his chairman to get more money to buy the best players.
Wow, newspapers printing bullshit. Yeah, that only happens with Chelsea. You do realise this is also being used by players agents to get signed/a better contract or whatever when there is absolutly no interest from Chelsea.

But you're right, it's all Chelsea's fault.

Quote:
And i dont know how you can talk about Shaun Wright-Phillips as thats another player youve literally ****ed up by not having any chance to play. When he comes on he's one of the players with flair and energy and normally creates a chance for himself and one for someone else in a very short space of time. Now if he was playing for Arsenal (Heaven Forbid) or even somewhere like Bolton/Villa/Newcastle he'd be an instant regular, be 1st team for England and who knows what he could achieve.
Not to sound flippant but he knew what he was doing when he signed up. It was obvious that his chances of playing were gonig to be limited (he was automatically 4th choice at the time) so he either signed for money (which was his own choice so I have no sympathy) or he thought he could play his way into the team (like Joe Cole did), in which case good luck to him and in a couple of years he might make it.

For a large part of this season we have had Robben on the bench because the midfield is that good and he vastly superior to SWP in every way. So you can moan about how this effects Englands (illusionary) chances of doing anything romotely sucessful but at the end of the day it's all down to SWP.

If you're good enough you'll play and he just isn't good enough.

Quote:
Now on to being ripped off... Andriy Shevchenko. Doesnt start off very well so he's cut from the side, relegated to the bench and soon he'l be out of the club.
He's had half the season so far and not been worth £30 million. Robben is playing far better and deserves to be in the side so it makes sense for him to be dropped. You can't expect to be gauranteed a place on reputation alone. If he finds some and form or starts scoring goals he will be back in the side.

Look at Real Madrid, that's what happens when reputation is more important than form.

Quote:
Now i wouldnt be surprised to see Luca Toni or Torres come in for Chelsea in January. Just because you simply have a ridiculous amount of money that no team can match.
Of course he won't, there is no precedent for such a comment. We have a good reputation for giving strikers firing blanks plenty of chances. Kesman anyone?

Quote:
Man Utd spent everything that had for Wayne Rooney who only now is coming really good, Chelsea spent that much on Sheva and will do it again in January/Next summer probably twice.
Oh boohoo, poor Man U, shall we pass around the collection plate.

Quote:
Ruud Van Nistelrooy came to Man Utd and didnt score for like 11 games or something, Sheva has had 9 starts or something similar i believe and has scored and now he's cut? Shows how much of a prick Mourinho truly is.
Yes, that goal against Newcastle in the Carling Cup. He should get wold player of the year for that.

Quote:
From the moment he first put on a United shirt Ruud Van Nistelrooy couldn't stop scoring. After scoring in pre-season friendlies and the Charity Shield clash with Liverpool it quickly became obvious United had got a striker of the highest quality in world football.

In his Old Trafford debut he got two against Fulham, goals followed against Newcastle, Spurs then a double at home to Deportivo. Ruud got his first hat-trick for the reds at home to Southampton in the 6-1 win as well as scoring twice against Boavista, Spurs, Sunderland. Vital goals also came in European away trips to Bayern Munich and Deportivo. A highlight was the FA Cup 3rd Round tie away to Aston Villa. With United 2-0 down, Van Nistelrooy came off the bench to score twice in two minutes and seal a memorable 3-2 victory.
http://www.manutdzone.com/playerpage...Nistelrooy.htm

If Sheva had done that then he would be in the side. Simple as.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:55   #31
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 14:59   #32
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Damned if you do, damned if you don't for them. How exactly are you supposed to act when something like the Glazer takeover occurs for your club?
The fact that Man Utd are the biggest most commercially exploting club in the world, it is unsuprising that it happened.

"oh no some american has taken over our club"
big deal
If they were pissed off with the club being a big business primarily aiming to make money in global markets they should have left years ago when every glory fan in the country was supporting them.
I seriously doubt that they would have been up in arms about it had Man Utd won the league for the last couple of seasons.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 17:07   #33
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

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Originally Posted by Ste
The fact that Man Utd are the biggest most commercially exploting club in the world, it is unsuprising that it happened.
It is unsurprising that it happened, but there's a difference between being owned by British people and an American who's not interested in football and gives the club enormous debt. I don't exactly see where the problem is, except that they have the incredibly retarded name "FC United".
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 17:54   #34
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

I thought this post was typical United fan not from Manchester bollocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Right... time for a rant.

2 Goalkeepers? Okay fair enough and its shocking the injuries that happened to both of them in that game. But the thing that pissed me off about it was the press instantly saying you were going to buy buffon, or barthez or some shit because its expected that your prick of a manager can go suck off his chairman to get more money to buy the best players.
First off Chelsea were never going to get Buffon. What's left at Juve will stay at Juve. They could be non-league and still be biggest club in italy in terms of following (although Milan in terms of style and people who actually turn up have it sown up). Barthez is in the same league as Hedman now, an out of contract keeper past his best and Hedman won because he is more reliable, and a stop gap keeper.

Quote:
And i dont know how you can talk about Shaun Wright-Phillips as thats another player youve literally ****ed up by not having any chance to play. When he comes on he's one of the players with flair and energy and normally creates a chance for himself and one for someone else in a very short space of time. Now if he was playing for Arsenal (Heaven Forbid) or even somewhere like Bolton/Villa/Newcastle he'd be an instant regular, be 1st team for England and who knows what he could achieve.
Yeah that's true.

Quote:
Now on to being ripped off... Andriy Shevchenko. Doesnt start off very well so he's cut from the side, relegated to the bench and soon he'l be out of the club.
Shevchenko's link up play is coming together, he's got a few assists this season, it's just that like drogba, he needs time. He is far more cultured now than the brash pacy, michael owen like footballer we saw dancing through defences in a kiev shirt (how I wish those days would return, that side played great football). He needs to learn the Premiership, much like Crespo, who regardless of how he played, once he adapted, he always scored goals.

Quote:
Now i wouldnt be surprised to see Luca Toni or Torres come in for Chelsea in January. Just because you simply have a ridiculous amount of money that no team can match. Man Utd spent everything that had for Wayne Rooney who only now is coming really good, Chelsea spent that much on Sheva and will do it again in January/Next summer probably twice. Ruud Van Nistelrooy came to Man Utd and didnt score for like 11 games or something, Sheva has had 9 starts or something similar i believe and has scored and now he's cut? Shows how much of a prick Mourinho truly is.
Look, every window, Chelsea are going to be linked with x world class striker until they move from a small club. If you believe the press on that, more fool you. The fact Shevchenko is dropped is simply because Mourinho simply picks a system and plays to it. At the minute Kalou and Robben are playing better, so Sheva is dropped.

Quote:
Man Utd to win the league and Chelsea to go and die.
Yeah, whatever. United pay a lot of money for players too. Not too long ago they paid £26M+ for Veron. If United win the league it's because they will have played good aggressive football and nothing else. The fact a united fan is messing with Chelsea to such an extent is what's becoming pathetic about this league. The matches between the top 4 have become a soap opera than a football match. The days of United v Arsenal being a great game between the top two contenders are gone. You've been sucked into Mourinho's game instead of rising above it, just like Arsenal were 2 weeks ago.

Quote:
Oh on a side note, i laughed my head off when Heskey head butted Carvalho yesterday. Made my xmas weekend. Carvalho is a cheating twat. Every corner/Free kick he has his arms wrapped around players without fail.
What, Carvalho who did nothing wrong in the world cup except get trodden on by Rooney in the world cup? He's no angel, but he's one of the best defenders in our league, simply for his ability to tackle and his range of passing. I think you've been missing John Terry, or even Vidic who manages to get booked every game it seems. When you support a team with Ronaldo and Rooney in it, two players who are more than prone to diving, attacking Carvalho, a defender is a bit rich.

If United fans got behind United instead of worrying about opposition that is so obviously inferior (even Chelsea) they'd waltz home with the title moosh.
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 19:45   #35
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Hmm okay hands up over Ruud Van Nistelrooy. Im sure he didnt score for like 9 games on the bounce when he came, but apparently ive been proven wrong so my apologies.

As for the rest of it im going out in 25mins, been busy all day, and will be busy all tommorow so will reply boxing day. Keep your knives in other peoples backs for now
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Unread 24 Dec 2006, 19:48   #36
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Oh and in regards to the Man Utd fan not from Manc, yeah im not from Manchester, but ive been up to Old Trafford everytime i can, have watched every game on TV this season except the Saturday 3pm kick-offs obviously, and regularly post and read the man utd forums.

And yes you can put your medal on my chest later.
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 11:49   #37
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

So far this season i've been to the moscow game and the blackburn game.

I cant be bothered to write the rest of this post or even the rest of this senta
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 19:57   #38
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
if by 'manutd' you mean 'watford' or 'bolton' or 'sheff utd' then fair dos. if however you mean 'man utd' then hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

anyone care to find me man utd and chelsea's wage bills and transfer bills for the last 2/3/4 years?


i would put man utd on a par with arsenal and liverpool in terms of spending, although man utd have a far greater ability to make the occational stupid purchase tbh.
No one in the entire world is on a par with chelsea though, no one.
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 20:01   #39
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
anyone care to find me man utd and chelsea's wage bills and transfer bills for the last 2/3/4 years?


i would put man utd on a par with arsenal and liverpool in terms of spending, although man utd have a far greater ability to make the occational stupid purchase tbh.
No one in the entire world is on a par with chelsea though, no one.
you missed my point.

saying "man united arent about money" is just wrong. Not even Chelsea relativity somehow makes man united anything but a soulless money-grubbing corporate empire.
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 20:04   #40
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
anyone care to find me man utd and chelsea's wage bills and transfer bills for the last 2/3/4 years?
Noone knows the wage bills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i would put man utd on a par with arsenal and liverpool in terms of spending, although man utd have a far greater ability to make the occational stupid purchase tbh.
No one in the entire world is on a par with chelsea though, no one.
Arsenal have spent comparatively **** all; however, all the other three clubs you mentioned have spent large quantities, with Chelsea having the most over the given period. However, it's like saying that Rupert Murdoch is poor because Bill Gates has more money; to suggest that Manchester United are where they are in the league on the back of anything other than spending a large amount of money, you'd be mistaken.
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 22:39   #41
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

this would be the man utd who at the best period since the premiership started won trophies with players brought up through their own ranks rather than throwing money at the league until they win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL
Noone knows the wage bills.
orly?


most of them are companies now - they have to publish their accounts


EDIT, also

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_arsenal.htm
http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_chelsea.htm
http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_liverpool.htm
http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_manutd.htm

for a bit more detail
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 22:56   #42
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
That shows how much they're getting above board. It doesn't show how much they're getting under the table, to avoid tax, and what have you, which may well be a very significant amount. It's impossible to be too cynical about the dealings of football clubs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
this would be the man utd who at the best period since the premiership started won trophies with players brought up through their own ranks rather than throwing money at the league until they win?
Chelsea didn't spend much to win the title in 55, either. Do you think Carrick, Ferdinand, Rooney and Ronaldo (to choose four of their best players) were youth team players, rather than costing nearly a hundred million pounds between them?
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 23:04   #43
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

no, but i think that scholes, both nevilles, beckham, butt (?) etc were when they won the treble
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 23:20   #44
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
no, but i think that scholes, both nevilles, beckham, butt (?) etc were when they won the treble
They were, but that's hardly relevent to this season.
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Unread 26 Dec 2006, 23:34   #45
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

I think trying to characterise man utd as a 'small homebred team against the odds' is impossible, especially given their recent transfer fees. Rooney + Ferdinand + Carrick = £70m+. Even if we think about supposed man utd through and through players, the likes of Giggs were poached from other clubs at youth level (he was a man city boy, as was i think, nicky butt). They hold monopolys at other levels than just transfer fees, not all of which are good for the game.


However,

(1) Man utd still 'play by the rules of the game', in that there are obvious deficiencies in their team and their squad that wont neccesarily be papered over as soon as the transfer window is open again. You cant say the same for chelsea - the best chelsea's detractors can hope for is that the players they have flop and they have to put up with them for max, half a season. I doubt someone like Heinze would have lasted as long at chelsea with his mistakes - and i doubt a player like fletcher would even get the CHANCE to develop as a player despite pressure of being at a high profile club.

(2) Youth and youth systems. As hinted at before - although they havent had much real success - at least in the last 3 years (which we all hopefully agree is a start of a new era in the premiership, since abramovich took over chelsea) - ferguson has at least tried to bleed in fletcher, richardson, and to a lesser extent bardsley (before being shipped to rangers) rossi (newcastle), and wes brown. Chelsea? No one. For sure, no one. John terry i think is the only one that comes to mind thats been with chelsea his entire career. Both Arsenal and Man Utd use the lesser cup competitions to bleed youth players and such - for chelsea its a chance for swp, cudicini, wayne bridge and other international quality players to actually get a game.

(3) The Manager. Oh sure, Fergie is an arrogant mother ****er, and a prick to boot, not talking to the bbc all these years. But he has also assembled pretty much 3 completely seperate teams in his time in charge of Man Utd. He has played attacking football, bled youth, and shown acute transfer and tactical awareness - solskjaer fits in both categories, both in his fee, and his cameos (99?). Mourinho has came in - with a uc and a cl trophy under his belt - but with a fantastic history of leading a bunch of divers to success. Hes had to demonstrate NO transfer awareness given that he's been allowed a blank chequebook - and has wasted a shit load of money. Tactics wise, chelsea have been found lacking on several occasions and sheer brute force has won them games because of the quality of player they have, rather than the way he has them playing. He has been with chelsea only while the going is good - whereas ferguson has been close to the sack and earned his position as untouchable.

these are three of the biggest reasons off the top of my head.
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Unread 27 Dec 2006, 00:39   #46
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
(1) Man utd still 'play by the rules of the game', in that there are obvious deficiencies in their team and their squad that wont neccesarily be papered over as soon as the transfer window is open again.
Man U are trying to steal Hargreaves off Bayern Munich. Chelsea pobably won't sign anyone.

Quote:
You cant say the same for chelsea - the best chelsea's detractors can hope for is that the players they have flop and they have to put up with them for max, half a season. I doubt someone like Heinze would have lasted as long at chelsea with his mistakes - and i doubt a player like fletcher would even get the CHANCE to develop as a player despite pressure of being at a high profile club.
You are basing these statements on nothing.

Quote:
(2) Youth and youth systems. As hinted at before - although they havent had much real success - at least in the last 3 years (which we all hopefully agree is a start of a new era in the premiership, since abramovich took over chelsea) - ferguson has at least tried to bleed in fletcher, richardson, and to a lesser extent bardsley (before being shipped to rangers) rossi (newcastle), and wes brown. Chelsea? No one. For sure, no one. John terry i think is the only one that comes to mind thats been with chelsea his entire career. Both Arsenal and Man Utd use the lesser cup competitions to bleed youth players and such - for chelsea its a chance for swp, cudicini, wayne bridge and other international quality players to actually get a game.
He has owned the cub for less than three years. Do you really expect him to bring through brilliant talent in that time? Man U had a really lucky spell where hey managed to get a load of good young players in one go, that doesn't happen every day. In a few years you may be able to criticise in that regard, but not now.

Quote:
(3) The Manager. Oh sure, Fergie is an arrogant mother ****er, and a prick to boot, not talking to the bbc all these years. But he has also assembled pretty much 3 completely seperate teams in his time in charge of Man Utd. He has played attacking football, bled youth, and shown acute transfer and tactical awareness - solskjaer fits in both categories, both in his fee, and his cameos (99?). Mourinho has came in - with a uc and a cl trophy under his belt - but with a fantastic history of leading a bunch of divers to success. Hes had to demonstrate NO transfer awareness given that he's been allowed a blank chequebook - and has wasted a shit load of money. Tactics wise, chelsea have been found lacking on several occasions and sheer brute force has won them games because of the quality of player they have, rather than the way he has them playing. He has been with chelsea only while the going is good - whereas ferguson has been close to the sack and earned his position as untouchable.
Either he's won throrough brute force or he's wasted a lot of money. Which is it?
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Unread 27 Dec 2006, 01:02   #47
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

im very glad you quoted my whole post and split it up into sections to reply to not a single part of it.

With Terry out indefinitely Chelsea will undoubtably buy a center half. And if we're talking about stealing players, you might want to consider the Jon Obi Mikel case.

I am basing these statements on what we know about chelsea and how much time and patience they have given to players.

I dont expect brilliant talent all the time but i havent seen a single player from chelseas youth system.

By 'brute force' i mean, if you have players of unbelievable calibre as chelsea do, formations and tactics are very much secondary.
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Unread 27 Dec 2006, 01:12   #48
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
With Terry out indefinitely Chelsea will undoubtably buy a center half. And if we're talking about stealing players, you might want to consider the Jon Obi Mikel case.
Manchester United probably got the better part of the deal there.
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Unread 27 Dec 2006, 01:16   #49
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
im very glad you quoted my whole post and split it up into sections to reply to not a single part of it.
yes, dealing with your three points in fours parts, how unscrupulous of me.

Quote:
With Terry out indefinitely Chelsea will undoubtably buy a center half. And if we're talking about stealing players, you might want to consider the Jon Obi Mikel case.
Once again, you have no evidence to suggest this, except Chelsea have only 3 centre-halves so buying a 4th would make sense seeing as we've had 4 every season except this one.

Quote:
I am basing these statements on what we know about chelsea and how much time and patience they have given to players.
Please give an example.

Quote:
I dont expect brilliant talent all the time but i havent seen a single player from chelseas youth system.
Chelsea have given a few youth players a chance but they have not been good enough. As a result they have been sold/loaned out so their future has not been destroyed. As with Joe Cole, if you are good enough you will play.

Quote:
By 'brute force' i mean, if you have players of unbelievable calibre as chelsea do, formations and tactics are very much secondary.
If you honestly believe that buying good players is enough to win consistantly you are either nieve or completely ignorant aobut the role a manager plays in football. You could buy the best players in the world but if you can't get to play as a team then they are useless.
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Unread 27 Dec 2006, 01:36   #50
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Re: [Football] Who would you rather see win the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Manchester United probably got the better part of the deal there.
agreed, but that doesnt clear chelsea of skullduggery.

---


by 'dealing with four points' you basically put a one sentence reply. you are actually probably pretty lucky i even bother to reply to you again given your argument position can be summed up as 'no why?'.


'no evidence to suggest' chelsea will sign a replacement center half for their injured captain? oh please. they had an entire summer to find a 4th center half, given that robert huth leaving in the summer wasnt exactly 'unexpected'. my point is that the weaknesses in man utd's team will remain until the end of the season at least, you cant say the same for definite about chelseas. As much as i love larsson, youd have to say that a 2 month loan signing from the mighty helsingborgs is what you might call 'patchwork'.

Swp, Crespo, Kezman, Duff, Johnson. To a lesser extent look at the amount of players who havent been as successful as maybe would have been thought and have been usurped by more expensive signings - such as Bridge.

Last week when chelsea stole the 3-2 win away at wigan they went to basically a 3-2-3-2 formation with no shape or direction, and it worked, due to nothing more than the sheer quality of their players. Its not exactly chess when you have that attacking bench to play with - "o shit im a goal down lets put on kalou/sheva/swp/robben/jcole" or whoever. Man utd and arsenal's options are very much more limited, forcing them to be more tactical with their subsitutions. If rooney/ronaldo/saha/giggs are all on the field, solskjaer is pretty much their only real dangerous player they can throw on. Class act that he is, hes reasonably old, and stays about through legend status. Its not like chelsea still have zola waiting in the wings.

The best thing moronyo has done for chelski is install a siege mentality, usually without warrant.


A few final notes.

The reason so many neutral fans or arsenal/liverpool/whoever fans are supporting their traditional rivals man utd rather than chelsea is reasonably simple.

a/ Chelsea dont have a lot of class about how they act on or off the field. The cole, gallas, mikel sagas spring to mind - abramovich is a dislikeable human being far away from the triviality of football, and mourinho, of course. Gallas summed it up best after chelsea talked trash about him by saying simply 'all that money, and still, no class'.

b/ Man Utd (and Arsenal) still play immeasurably better football. Look at the goal differences.
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