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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 19:15   #1
milo
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[Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

naughty boy

The funny thing is when he did that i made a bet with some friends that he'd been on some sort of marching powder, i wish id made a thread on GD because my penis would look big right about now. Cycling really should relax it rules on these drugs, they all take them - just look at Jan Ullrich. Lance Armstrong didn't win his titles on a talent alone.

Just to preempt the funny (incase it does happen) lol at Oscar Pereiro being given the tour only to test positive for something.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 19:17   #2
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Lance Armstrong didn't win his titles on a talent alone.
That is a baseless accusation. You have no proof. You have nothing. You fail. Stop propagating hearsay as fact. Thanks.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 19:27   #3
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That is a baseless accusation. You have no proof. You have nothing. You fail. Stop propagating hearsay as fact. Thanks.

K

I've propagated hearsay against Landis and Pereiro, but yeah theres no proof armstrong ever took performance enhancing drugs, on the 'off chance' the samples that he gave in the past are tested in the future to proove the baseless accusations my penis will look bigger than yours
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 19:33   #4
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

heheh i just went to the cycling thing on there and laughed at one of the articles written before the tour.


heheh down the toilet please?
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 19:46   #5
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

'performance enhancing drugs' is such a stupid phrase. every athlete takes 'performance enhancing drugs.'

anyway, in other news that surprises no one, LANCE BASS IS A QUEER!
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 22:44   #6
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That is a baseless accusation. You have no proof. You have nothing. You fail. Stop propagating hearsay as fact. Thanks.
He didn't need that stuff. His cancer-curing process mutated him! More or less anyway, it enabled his blood to contain much more oxygen compared to "healthy" people. (Or so they've said.)
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 22:56   #7
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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Originally Posted by Scorpio
He didn't need that stuff. His cancer-curing process mutated him! More or less anyway, it enabled his blood to contain much more oxygen compared to "healthy" people. (Or so they've said.)
I think the drugs he used to heal his cancer contained illegal stuff, but it did of course not count as cheating. I got no idea if that made his blood values stay high forever though.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 23:03   #8
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That is a baseless accusation. You have no proof. You have nothing. You fail. Stop propagating hearsay as fact. Thanks.
David Walsh and Paul Kimmage suggest differently.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 23:39   #9
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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Originally Posted by furball
David Walsh and Paul Kimmage suggest differently.

all the people he has succesfully sued over such basless accusations tend to back s|k's point up though
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 23:54   #10
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
all the people he has succesfully sued over such basless accusations tend to back s|k's point up though
There have indeed been a lot of out-of-court settlements between Lance Armstrong and his accusers.


But that's not proof of absence, that's absence of proof. Just saying, y'know.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 00:04   #11
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

The spats between the UCI/armstrong/WADA are the funniest though, WADA does a test and tuts, the UCI appoints their own investigator for an independant inquiry, the independant report from the appointed official says the tests were crap, armstrong writes to the IOC saying WADA are shit, WADA say the report was farcial and plan to sue.


btw it should be noted, because its funny in the manner a 5 year old would approve, that the head of WADA is called Dick Pound.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 00:16   #12
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
K

I've propagated hearsay against Landis and Pereiro, but yeah theres no proof armstrong ever took performance enhancing drugs, on the 'off chance' the samples that he gave in the past are tested in the future to proove the baseless accusations my penis will look bigger than yours
Until then you can stfu. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
More or less anyway, it enabled his blood to contain much more oxygen compared to "healthy" people. (Or so they've said.)
They also say he weighs an unfair 8 ounces less because he has half a brain left.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 00:26   #13
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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Originally Posted by s|k
They also say he weighs an unfair 8 ounces less because he has half a brain left.

who does?
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 00:38   #14
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

face it all competitors in the tour are doped up more or less
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 01:31   #15
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

hey, i just saw an interview with his mother on espn,

and now i know where all that extra testosterone came from.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 02:34   #16
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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hey, i just saw an interview with his mother on espn,

and now i know where all that extra testosterone came from.
They are Mennonites, which are like less severe Amish. They don't own tv's or radios or go to movies but do use cars and telephones.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 03:12   #17
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiX
face it all competitors in the tour are doped up more or less
if you can think of any other way to cycle up Alpe D'Huez, answers on a postcard
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 07:22   #18
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
'performance enhancing drugs' is such a stupid phrase. every athlete takes 'performance enhancing drugs.'

anyway, in other news that surprises no one, LANCE BASS IS A QUEER!
Get the shotgun
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 09:33   #19
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

I don't really have any issues with athletes taking 500 metric tons of drugs before each race. Questions of what is "natural" or not are just mindless.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 10:45   #20
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't really have any issues with athletes taking 500 metric tons of drugs before each race. Questions of what is "natural" or not are just mindless.
I agree absolutley of course, but I suspect part of the restriction (/division) relates to what would damage an athletes health in the long term, or some sort of faggotry about encouraging things to society generally.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 16:03   #21
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Cycling really should relax it rules on these drugs, they all take them - just look at Jan Ullrich. Lance Armstrong didn't win his titles on a talent alone.
Armstrong was haunted for 7 years and they never caught him on anything. in 2005 they spoke about how he may have used EPO back in 1999, but another, independant organisation declared that's everything but certain, especially when considering what methods they've used 'researching' this all.

'it's only cheating when you get caught', and all that. in the society we live in nowadays people shouldn't prove themselves to be innocent; others should prove them to be guilty.

[off-topic]this TdF i ended #5 out of 13.200 people in a prediction league, organised by a local newspaper. i'm now invited to some tourquiz at september 1, where i will battle for the prices together with the others in top25. some 'miss' and a few prodrivers that also rode the TdF will hand over the prices. currently i'm on a 1000 euro citybike, when i'm lucky i'll win the 2000 euro racebike... so i'll be studying on Tour-knowlegde in august! [/off-topic]

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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 16:48   #22
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
Armstrong was haunted for 7 years and they never caught him on anything. in 2005 they spoke about how he may have used EPO back in 1999, but another, independant organisation declared that's everything but certain, especially when considering what methods they've used 'researching' this all.

That independant organisation was appointed by the UCI, WADA are now considering legal action against the people who wrote that report!


edit to clarify and afaik (could be wrong) it comes down to the tests not being done according to procedures because they were unusual tests, the report basically said this was unscientific, WADA et al say that it isn't unscientific just not procedural or something like that.

Quote:
'it's only cheating when you get caught', and all that. in the society we live in nowadays people shouldn't prove themselves to be innocent; others should prove them to be guilty.
I agree, i realise im being tabloid scum I have my suspicions about armstrong, thats all.


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[off-topic]this TdF i ended #5 out of 13.200 people in a prediction league, organised by a local newspaper. i'm now invited to some tourquiz at september 1, where i will battle for the prices together with the others in top25. some 'miss' and a few prodrivers that also rode the TdF will hand over the prices. currently i'm on a 1000 euro citybike, when i'm lucky i'll win the 2000 euro racebike... so i'll be studying on Tour-knowlegde in august! [/off-topic]


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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 18:26   #23
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I agree absolutley of course, but I suspect part of the restriction (/division) relates to what would damage an athletes health in the long term, or some sort of faggotry about encouraging things to society generally.
Just because you want to stick whatever weird concoctions and mixtures of chemicals in your body to see what it will do to you does not mean that some health conscious individual with outstanding athletic abilities should be forced to just to be competitive. It is about sportsmanship, fairness, honesty and integrity. The real crime is how they sneak about, in subterfuge, lying to their fans and to the sport, and their teammates about what it is they are doing.

Anyways, sports figures are role models, and that comes with a responsibility.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 18:27   #24
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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if you can think of any other way to cycle up Alpe D'Huez, answers on a postcard
You're kidding?
Every year people (amateurs) from around here (can't get any flatter here) organize a trip to l'Alpe, just to cycle up and down.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 20:45   #25
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

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His cancer-curing process mutated him! More or less anyway, it enabled his blood to contain much more oxygen compared to "healthy" people.
Paging Tomkat to thread 191749!
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 22:26   #26
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Just because you want to stick whatever weird concoctions and mixtures of chemicals in your body to see what it will do to you does not mean that some health conscious individual with outstanding athletic abilities should be forced to just to be competitive.
No-one is forcing them to compete. I see no real difference between saying "Just because you want to train all the time doesn't mean that someone who is very lazy should be forced to in order to compete"
Quote:
It is about sportsmanship, fairness, honesty and integrity. The real crime is how they sneak about, in subterfuge, lying to their fans and to the sport, and their teammates about what it is they are doing.
I see nothing inherently dishonest with taking various drugs to improve performance. Obviously the actual practice currently is cheating, which by it's nature involves lying and subterfuge. But if you abolished those rules then it would no longer be dishonest.
Quote:
Anyways, sports figures are role models, and that comes with a responsibility.
As I've said elsewhere, I've very little sympathy for anyone who considers a sportsman a role model.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 22:35   #27
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

personally i don't listen to any music if i believe the relevant musician may have been under the influence of any unlawful chemicals during the creative process.

it simply isn't fair to the other musicians who follows the laws. CHEATING i says.
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Unread 28 Jul 2006, 22:43   #28
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Exclamation Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

The odd thing is that testosterone takes time (several weeks) to build up muscle tissue. It would have had little effect in the short term. Given that Landis passed six previous drug tests during the Tour it's curious that he would have started taking such a slow acting drug rather late in the race.

It would still be cheating*, ofc, but it seems like really dumb cheating.




*Cheating in the sense of being against the rules. I don't care what drugs various sport governing bodies want to allow or disallow, but obviously they have a right and an obligation to enforce their rules--whatever they may be.
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 00:17   #29
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

[quote=Tactitus]stuffQUOTE]
hey tact, how 'bout them twinkies?*



*i realize this post is an utter irrevocable jinx
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 00:51   #30
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I see nothing inherently dishonest with taking various drugs to improve performance. Obviously the actual practice currently is cheating, which by it's nature involves lying and subterfuge. But if you abolished those rules then it would no longer be dishonest.
The drug thing is not the point in that part of my argument, the willingness to cheat and lie to get ahead is what I disaprove of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
As I've said elsewhere, I've very little sympathy for anyone who considers a sportsman a role model.
That is probably because you are a lazy sloth who doesn't appreciate athletics, talent, natural ability, persistence, pain, and sacrifice. And I say that in the most endearing way possible. It also explains this comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
No-one is forcing them to compete. I see no real difference between saying "Just because you want to train all the time doesn't mean that someone who is very lazy should be forced to in order to compete"
You don't appreciate sport at all, you just want to push your own 'drugs r gud' agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
The odd thing is that testosterone takes time (several weeks) to build up muscle tissue. It would have had little effect in the short term. Given that Landis passed six previous drug tests during the Tour it's curious that he would have started taking such a slow acting drug rather late in the race.
Are you some kind of human encyclopedia? Why do you know so much odd shit?
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 01:09   #31
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I see nothing inherently dishonest with taking various drugs to improve performance. Obviously the actual practice currently is cheating, which by it's nature involves lying and subterfuge. But if you abolished those rules then it would no longer be dishonest.
what does the word dishonest mean?
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 08:29   #32
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
The drug thing is not the point in that part of my argument, the willingness to cheat and lie to get ahead is what I disaprove of.
This is a circular argument though because the post you were originally responding to obviously implied drug used should be allowed. You can't say "I don't think drug use should be allowed because it's cheating". Well, you can, but you won't win any prizes in the judicious use of logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
You don't appreciate sport at all, you just want to push your own 'drugs r gud' agenda.
Drugs aren't "good" - they're value free for the most part. I just don't really care if people use them to alter their bodies.
Quote:
That is probably because you are a lazy sloth who doesn't appreciate athletics, talent, natural ability, persistence, pain, and sacrifice.
Well I don't really appreciate athletics, no. The others I am more appreciative of if they are applied to something worthwhile rather than running round a track or punching people in the face or something. The top score on Geometry Wars on the Xbox 360 last time I looked was something over 100 million. And I was fairly impressed when I saw some of the videos on Google Video, the guy who did it had obviously developed his skills to a new level. And it's possible to wax lyrical about this awesome example of the human condition, triumphing over adversity, blah, blah. But if you read the interview with the guy, it starts to sound a little pathetic. The guy mentioned his girlfriend leaving him in the period he was playing the game hardcore (I think) and his life now involved getting back from classes and sitting in a darkened room playing for hours on end. And fair enough if he's enjoying himself, but I hardly think what he's doing should be seen as some great object of admiration.

If however you are valuing pain and sacrifice in order to improve performance then separating out drug use seems singularly irrational. Someone is allowed to build muscle mass to the point where it will be a danger to them in late or sit at home playing 360 games 'till they get RSI, someone is allowed to go on a diet where their body is pretty warped, but if they inject in some chemical they're an evil criminal.

But the point stands - if you admire a sportsman so much that you'd want to copy them (if they for example took a dangerous amount of steroids) then I'm hardly going to mourn you when you have a heart-attack. Same for any other idiot who OD's (and yes, that includes people like me).

Obviously children are a different point, but on the whole young children don't (or shouldn't) have the ability to buy dangerous drugs.
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 09:13   #33
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

No, it really isn't a circular argument. There are two things I don't like that I have mentioned in this discussion - drug use in sports, and cheating, lying, and subterfuge to get ahead. If drugs were legal, and someone were cheating and lying about something else to win, like hurting the other opponents, or using a motor on their bike or something, then I'd feel the same way about it.
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 12:15   #34
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

I just want to see the flying human olympics. Is it so much to ask that everyone inject some bloody drugs and grow wings?

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I hear that's what hitler said to the jews!
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Unread 29 Jul 2006, 17:32   #35
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

I agree with several points which have been made in this thread.

1. There is much hypocracy in sports (as in the rest of life)

2. People should either follow the rules or work to have the rules changed. It is not fair to want everyone else to play by the rules while you make them up as you go along.

3. Athletes as role modles is a very bad idea as most high-level, professional athletes are young persons who have, for their entire life, been fawned on and pampered and indulged just because they have the ability to kick a ball, run fast, whatever better than everyone else. This is not to say that silly old people are any more useful as role modles, however.
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Unread 1 Aug 2006, 03:23   #36
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Re: [Tour de France] Floyd Landis in 'super stage' drug shocker

to be honest, I really think it are the 4 scotches and the 2 beers that made his testostoron/epitestotoron level go above the allowed ratio. In all previous tests he was just under it, and it has been known that he has a high ratio from the start of his career up until now.

They have to get proof other then a blood ratio to convince me that he indeed took doping.
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