Construction.......

[Audacious]

Ok been thinking about this, and how the top say 20 planets in the rankings have so much resource saved up and so people don't dare attack them. From what I have read there have been alot of discussions on here as to how to stop this, maybe putting a cap on the amount of resource you can save.

This got me thinking tonight, what do the factories that we build actually do? Do we (the player) place the resources into the factory to actually build the ships, or do we pay someone to build the ships for us?

Well both ways I was thinking, how can 1 light factory suddenly produce say 200,000 fighters? or 1 heavy factory produce 1,000 wyvern? I know this is a space game, but well thats one hell of a big factory!

How about their is a cap as to how many ships 1 factory can build? I don't know figures say 1 million of each resource? This would mean that people can save their resources, and it would be a viable tactic, people can build their 147 distorters, people can do what they want.

If you save resource, and suddenly get incoming fleets, you cannot build to def, you can only produce a certain amount of ships in that time. If you build all those distorters then you might not be able to be scanned, but if someone does scan you, you can't produce as many ships, or if you do, it doesn't change greatly from when you were scanned.

Just a thought......

[Kargool]

Not a bad idea actually. I support this.

[gzambo]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Not a bad idea actually. I support this.

retired players opinions dont count

back on topic i agree some sort of limit to what 1 factory can produceis a good idea

[Ultimate Newbie]

That's not too bad of an idea, i've wondered about that before in the past. Problem is, it pretty much makes building your way out of incoming pretty difficult as a strategy, and less active players who come on to build ships once a day might find themselves unable to build as many ships as they had liked (and less activity means fewer constructions to have as factories). Those arent necessarily bad, but they are implications for your proposal.

Alternatively, you could just have a construction that is a "resource storage unit" or Silos where you can pile in cash - if you run out of room, you dont receive any additional cash untill you do have room. Just a quick thought.

[Furious]

throw a whole new angle on it eh? is this simply just to promote a sense of realism? i would be well narked if i logged in after a week (which i sometimes o) and couldnt use all my res in one go

[Chef!]

cool idea but would only really be practical/fair for players who do only login once a day/week unless construction queing was introduced so that players who arent as active could get enough factories (and i believe that idea has been rubbished before somewhere).

[ComradeRob]

Sounds like a good idea to me; would add an extra tactical element to the game.

[Kal]

I'm not sure why its that unfair on the less active - we can balence it top try and prevent that - and I'm assuming that more factories means u can build more at once under this scheme - therefore if you are less active you could always build more factories.

[Chef!]

this kind of system will only go to increase the fact that once certain planets have a significant lead new players will find it increasingly hard to catch up surely?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Kal

I'm not sure why its that unfair on the less active

This is unfortunate.

1) Less active players log in less frequently.
2) Less frequent login leads to more resources stockpiled.
3) Less frequent login leads to fewer constructions/research due to missing some ticks here and there - eventually they'll stack up.
4) Less Constructions potentially means less factories.
5) More (stockpiled) resources means more ships need to be built at a single login.
6) Less opportunity to split production over multiple ticks in order to dodge restrictons on production, eg "waiting until the next tick".

Thus; you have players with more resources with less constructions trying to build more ships under a limited timeframe resulting in "unfairness" on the less active.

[ComradeRob]

There should be an easy solution to that problem. Something like this:

Let's assume that one light factory can build 100 Harpies per tick (the real figure may be somewhat higher, but this is an example). Let's also assume that your production ETA is 8 ticks, and you currently have enough resources to build 500 harpies.

If you go to the production screen and order 500 harpies, they will appear on separate ticks in batches of 100 (so the first 100 will appear in 8 ticks, the next 100 on the subsequent tick, and so on). Any subsequent orders which used the same factories would have to wait until factory capacity was available.

Thus the player is still able to spend all of their resources, but they are not able to receive all of the ordered ships at once.

[Furious]

yes yes yes....unless that could be balanced then ic ant see it working. Think of me as the voice of the underpriveleged (ie in terms of PA time)

[robban1]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

This is unfortunate.

1) Less active players log in less frequently.
2) Less frequent login leads to more resources stockpiled.
3) Less frequent login leads to fewer constructions/research due to missing some ticks here and there - eventually they'll stack up.
4) Less Constructions potentially means less factories.
5) More (stockpiled) resources means more ships need to be built at a single login.
6) Less opportunity to split production over multiple ticks in order to dodge restrictons on production, eg "waiting until the next tick".

Thus; you have players with more resources with less constructions trying to build more ships under a limited timeframe resulting in "unfairness" on the less active.

yeah right, like they do any usefull to the game anyway

stop protect the deadweight of pa, if a guy cant login regulary,how can he expect to do any good anyway?

intresting idea that makes ppl build factories instead of the normal crap we're used too by now

[Furious]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

There should be an easy solution to that problem. Something like this:

Let's assume that one light factory can build 100 Harpies per tick (the real figure may be somewhat higher, but this is an example). Let's also assume that your production ETA is 8 ticks, and you currently have enough resources to build 500 harpies.

If you go to the production screen and order 500 harpies, they will appear on separate ticks in batches of 100 (so the first 100 will appear in 8 ticks, the next 100 on the subsequent tick, and so on). Any subsequent orders which used the same factories would have to wait until factory capacity was available.

Thus the player is still able to spend all of their resources, but they are not able to receive all of the ordered ships at once.

Maybe we should be thinking of the upshot here...so the big uns stockpile res....so what? isnt that a dumb idea anyways or am i being naiive? Id prefer to have ships, know that much. Especially if i was zik, which seems to be the fave for top players as i could steal more!

[Furious]

Originally Posted by robban1

yeah right, like they do any usefull to the game anyway

stop protect the deadweight of pa, if a guy cant login regulary,how can he expect to do any good anyway?

intresting idea that makes ppl build factories instead of the normal crap we're used too by now

Thats a really dumb attitude considering the declining user base.

[Chef!]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

There should be an easy solution to that problem. Something like this:

Let's assume that one light factory can build 100 Harpies per tick (the real figure may be somewhat higher, but this is an example). Let's also assume that your production ETA is 8 ticks, and you currently have enough resources to build 500 harpies.

If you go to the production screen and order 500 harpies, they will appear on separate ticks in batches of 100 (so the first 100 will appear in 8 ticks, the next 100 on the subsequent tick, and so on). Any subsequent orders which used the same factories would have to wait until factory capacity was available.

Thus the player is still able to spend all of their resources, but they are not able to receive all of the ordered ships at once.

thats definatly the solution and a good solution it is too.

Originally Posted by robban1

yeah right, like they do any usefull to the game anyway

stop protect the deadweight of pa, if a guy cant login regulary,how can he expect to do any good anyway?

Well this "deadweight" is probably a fairly large portion of the player base so really you should be thankful they are there for targets and to spend money, which is why jolt keeps this game running remember.

[Furious]

Originally Posted by Chef!

thats definatly the solution and a good solution it is too.


Well this "deadweight" is probably a fairly large portion of the player base so really you should be thankful they are there for targets and to spend money, which is why jolt keeps this game running remember.

Bravo

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

There should be an easy solution to that problem.

As said already, that is a first rate solution to this 'problem'.

I'm now content with the suggestion .

[Furious]

well blimey.


So does it get done?

What happens to wonderful ideas, once deemed wonderful? do they get put in a pot of code ...sort of "see what happens"?

[Timeline]

hmmm there is one aspect of the inactives that hasnt been looked at...the inactive planets dont attack as frequently as other active players do, as such they dont have as much resources coming in. Yes a cap would in the long run be a hindrance to them, but if its set to a level which is suitable for a planet that is only active for one in say 3 days the cap 'shouldnt' become a problem

[Makhil]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Alternatively, you could just have a construction that is a "resource storage unit" or Silos where you can pile in cash.

you mean a bank ?

Any new construction that you need to build is a good idea coz it makes distorters whores a far less attractive tactic.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Makhil

you mean a bank ?

I was thinking more along the Ore Silos of Red Alert 1 vintage, whereby you could tell roughly how much cash your enemy had by the number of Silos/Refineries they had and how full they were. And iirc if you had insufficient silos, your Ore Trucks would continue dumping resources, but you wouldnt actually get any credits untill you built more silos, or spent the credits you already had.

Timey's comment is actually quite correct. Silos could be used as a different kind of limiting factor either instead of or in combination with the Resource Handeling researches - just a Construction varient. What would be nice if they were semi-interchangeable; eg you could research resource handeling to mine more roids, or construct more silos, and that way you had to prioritise what is more important; research or constructions.

But that's a whole different idea really, and i've kinda hijacked the thread . Apologies.

[Dom32]

Couldnt you have it so that there is a link to percentage of constructions that are factories and either ur production eta or the number of ships of the relevant classes you can build. Say if you had it so that 20% of constructions being heavy factories would let u produce the relevant ships at 3/4 of the normal eta or if its for number lets you produce say 4 times more. Any comments?

[Furious]

im sorry i cant quite understand what you're getting at Dom32. How is the 20% of total building porportional to the 3/4 eta time?

[Dom32]

Its just a suggestion i suggested 20% because its that number for research labs and 3/4 for absolutely no reason it cld be minus one to eta time or 4/5 eta time i dont know ill let someone more intellegent and more knowledgable about the game do that bit

[Furious]

i think you need to develop YOUR own idea a bit first matey...and perhaps not be too condascending about yourself?

[Gate]

I like the only-being-able-to-build-so-many-ships-arriving-in-a-certain-tick thing a lot.

People who build a decent # of factories will have to sacrifice distorters and vice versa. This way, there are two ways to defend yourself, the 'bluff' (distorter whore) way, and the more difficult to achieve resource stockpile. Makes things more interesting IMO, as I got sick of untouchable dist whores tbh

[Ace]

Originally Posted by robban1

yeah right, like they do any usefull to the game anyway

stop protect the deadweight of pa, if a guy cant login regulary,how can he expect to do any good anyway?

intresting idea that makes ppl build factories instead of the normal crap we're used too by now

keep in mind that less active ppl are ppl that p2p too so they should have the same options as other players that pay.

Deadweight you call em ??? keep in mind if all those ppl you call deadweight leave the game there is no more game.
Or do you think Jolt will let it run for the few "so called top of the bill players that you think you are part off" ???

Get you head out of your ass and start helping those ppl play the game and enjoy it so they *might* spend more time on the game and get adicted too

*my 2 cents*

[Dom32]

Ok so say you do have it at 20% of the constructions being factories of one kind then you could have it that similairly to the way the research system works (i think) and have that it take 20% off the production eta and it works as an addition to the % off due to engineering.

Or have it soo that the % of your constructions that are factories of one is linked to the number of ships that each factory can produce. i.e. if 20 % are factories then you get 500% efficiency of each factory so if one normally makes 100 of a ship then if you have that type of factory as 20% of your productions then each factory can make 500 ships of that type.

[Furious]

so, in essence your production/cost ratio for outputting a small/med/heavy ship is directly proportional (in some way) to how many factories you have of that type.

Like it!

[Audacious]

Whats all this percentage stuff?

My way is easy (easy being i know lets try to help the new guys start off, not the if we have some percentage of this and divide it by the number of planets in your cluster, multiplied by your score, added onto your age)

1 factory can produce say 1000 harpies
2 factories can produce 2000 harpies
3 factories can produce 3000 harpies

get me drift? The active players will still be able to build alot of ships and defend themselves, then new guys can come on and actually do something as well, if you only log in once a day, to be honest, your not gonna do very well because well you launch a fleet, then log out, no jumpgate, just blind land. The new guy might actually think, ok I need that many factories to build my attack fleet for tonight, giving them something new to think about not just, oh well another zik came and stole my fleet

[Furious]

works for me...just needs a queuing system

[Dom32]

Touch harsh on the newbies isnt it if theyre easing into PA its not great to have to build 5 factories to have a decent building capacity so they may think screw this and go do something else the only reason i suggested percentages is cos then you can have people with ten constructions with the same advantages of those with 100 just like the research labs

[Ceadrath]

I don't think that this is going to have that much impact on the newer player as has been suggested above. The saved resources of not logging in for a couple of days with 300 or less roids is going to be minimal compared to the vast stockpile of resources that someone with thousands of roids has surely?

As long as the minimum limit is enough to ensure that the stockpiling players need to invest in several factories then i don't really see that it would have an adverse effect on the smaller player.

EDIT: pretty much what timeline said earlier

[furball]

Well, this would stop players building ships to defend against attackers. That's not something I think is a particularly good thing.

Imagine spending mass resources by building ships overnight, then seeing that the last few batches get landed on by attackers


Either way, numbers would need to be worked out. I can imagine it making life very difficult for the top players.

[Furious]

Originally Posted by furball

I can imagine it making life very difficult for the top players.

I suppose the question is, is it hard enough already?

[furball]

Originally Posted by Furious

I suppose the question is, is it hard enough already?

There's a fine line. Where an alliance or its block dominates the round, their top players (usually those with the most roids, thus the greatest ship-producing capacity) quickly run out of targets. This leads to boredom setting in for them.

They are also limited by the HCT researches, which do a good job in preventing excessive exponential growth early in the round. This means that there's far more competition for a top 10 rank.


Aside from these things, you'd need to ask some players who regularly make the top 10 or around there. With a personal best just inside the top 200, I'm not really the right person to be asking for more details than those that I've given already.

[ChipZ^]

Originally Posted by Chef!

cool idea but would only really be practical/fair for players who do only login once a day/week unless construction queing was introduced so that players who arent as active could get enough factories (and i believe that idea has been rubbished before somewhere).

I think trying to implement new ideas while thinking about players who log in once a week is pretty stupid. Try doing what the active playerbase want for a change?

Also the idea was to make resource whoring for long periods harder, so im sure if you buy ships one a day or once every couple of days you wouldnt be affected.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by furball

Aside from these things, you'd need to ask some players who regularly make the top 10 or around there. With a personal best just inside the top 200, I'm not really the right person to be asking for more details than those that I've given already.

I always found holding rank a reasonable challenge, being that my alliance was nearly always on the losing end of things. However, I certainly wouldn't say it's too hard. Though maybe I'm not the one to be referred to as I've never finished top 10 (only held t10 spots for about 5 or 6 weeks in my career, but never in the first few weeks. And my planet always got panned in the end. Sigh.)

I'd definitely say it's not too difficult as it is.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Gate

I always found holding rank a reasonable challenge, being that my alliance was nearly always on the losing end of things. However, I certainly wouldn't say it's too hard. Though maybe I'm not the one to be referred to as I've never finished top 10 (only held t10 spots for about 5 or 6 weeks in my career, but never in the first few weeks. And my planet always got panned in the end. Sigh.)

I'd definitely say it's not too difficult as it is.

I'm really looking for someone who is reguarly top early on in the round, and holds that for the entire round (so this would exclude jerome). Their views would help me a lot in reaching my own conclusions.