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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 17:16   #1
Achilles
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Bedlam

We've all been watching the slow destruction of Britney Spear's mental health and the resulting implosion of her personal life for the past year or so. At the very least I imagine we are all aware of it. I was only recently however that I took the time to wonder why though, I think I'd always assumed it was just a case of 'Heh, look at that stupid bitch.' But when I did think about it I realised that I didn't care about Britney or her problems at all, my interest was generated purely by my own schadenfreude. On some level I enjoyed watching someone, anyone, being miserable.

But since that I have long since accepted my own shortcomings this only becomes interesting if it can be applied to society at large. Has it become morally acceptable to want to see people destroy themselves? It seems it has, or more correctly, always was. As far back as 300 years ago people used to queue outside the aptly nicknamed Bedlam Asylum in London where, for a penny, they could peer into the cages of the inmates and revel in the frequently sexual or violent behaviour being enacted therein. You could even bring a stick to poke them with, presumably if the lazy ****ers weren't performing with a penny's worth of gusto. Entry was free on the first Tuesday of every month. Marketing at it's finest to be sure.

The more things change the more they stay the same I guess. We can construct improbably tall buildings, create beautiful works of art and music and design ever more powerful artifices of technology but we can't seem to get away from the baseness which ultimately rules our society. I have always been partial to the principles of moral dualism and the expansion of that as related by philosophers such as Kierkegaard or Nietzsche. In fact, right now I can't think of even a single compelling reason why they could be wrong. Not exactly a cheery thought given the ultimately pessimistic message of these philosophies.

But I simply can't see a cause beyond an inherent failing in either our humanity or society. Or both. There have been a lot of fingers pointed in the direction of the tabloid press, but surely they are simply feeding an existing demand? A symptom as opposed to a cause. After all, I think there can be little doubt that if cute puppy pictures or sad clown caricatures sold the most adspace then they'd cover that instead. Anyone got a different take on it all?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 17:29   #2
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Re: Bedlam

Alienation causing irrational sado-masicistic impulses to create a feeling of belonging through submission/domination. Or something?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 17:31   #3
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Re: Bedlam

Many people are interested in whatever is unusual and are also interested in their fellow man. If their fellow man is doing something interesting, like imploding, lots of people are going to want to watch. Some want to help but few have the opportunity.

If the person doing the imploding is someone that has already acheived a certain amount of noteriety and attention, then people become even more interested. When you get to the star/celebrety status anything they do good or bad becomes magnified and of even more interest to even more people.

It is human nature and neither good nor bad, it just is.

Certainly people have always loved to see the mighty brought low. I can't imagine the amount of press the French Revolution would have gotten if the world had available to them all of the media outlets that today has at its command. Marie Antoinette would have been much more interesting if there had been camers to have caught her getting out of a carriage without any undergarments.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 17:36   #4
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
It is human nature and neither good nor bad, it just is.
Do you believe this is inherent in all human beings and if so, to what extent (if any) is it fostered by society?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 19:57   #5
Achilles
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASG
Alienation causing irrational sado-masicistic impulses to create a feeling of belonging through submission/domination. Or something?
This could almost certainly be applied to some people who act or think in this manner but I doubt it's generally applicable. I certainly hope not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If the person doing the imploding is someone that has already acheived a certain amount of noteriety and attention, then people become even more interested. When you get to the star/celebrety status anything they do good or bad becomes magnified and of even more interest to even more people.

It is human nature and neither good nor bad, it just is.
This could certainly apply in Britney's case but it goes nowhere to explaining the treatment of those mental patients. Their social status would have been the lowest possible through no fault of their own yet they were subjected to even further torture and abuse for the amusement of the masses.

Another example along the same lines would be Roman arenas. In that case you even have the elite and the proletariat joining forces to cheer on human misery and suffering. What is the driving force behind this class-spanning compulsion?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 20:04   #6
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
What is the driving force behind this class-spanning compulsion?
The quantification of self-worth through the degradation of others.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 20:05   #7
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Re: Bedlam

If anyone else has any questions tonight I'm free until nine o'clock.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 20:05   #8
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Re: Bedlam

Did you know Bedlam is now the Imperial War Museum?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 20:06   #9
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Re: Bedlam

That's not a question but thanks for the information.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 21:52   #10
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Re: Bedlam

And Achilles, you should probably read Rosseau's discourse on inequality if you haven't already.

SPOILER:

He claims we're all screwed because everyone compares themselves to everyone else. Because others are often wittier or stronger etc, we seek to appropriate more property (land, wealth, lovers, ideas, forum posts, etc) to increase our relative self-worth.

Because we often can't appropriate any more, we seek to see others lose something, thus increasing our relative property/worth.

Last edited by Hebdomad; 15 Feb 2008 at 21:58.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 21:59   #11
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Re: Bedlam

I'm more intrigued at the press revelling in her downward spiral and pretty much egging her on towards suicide/murder. I find the coverage of Britney to be truly evil - this is a woman who is clearly not well and needs help.
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 23:43   #12
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Re: Bedlam

Apparently they're satisfying a demand. Surely the needs of the majority are more important than the needs of a single person?
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Unread 15 Feb 2008, 23:48   #13
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Re: Bedlam

vague pretend non history of recent times mildly exaggerated to make point about recent times...

pretty shit thread
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Unread 16 Feb 2008, 15:12   #14
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Apparently they're satisfying a demand. Surely the needs of the majority are more important than the needs of a single person?
Interesting use of the word 'needs'.
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Unread 16 Feb 2008, 19:23   #15
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Re: Bedlam

I was looking for a better word to use in its place, but I figured that someone would bite and would be too upset to notice it. In any case, it's an interesting point, even if "seeing people suffer" is not something a human being needs to survive.
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Unread 17 Feb 2008, 02:17   #16
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Re: Bedlam

I've been watching her slow destruction for the last 8 years* :P

Watching people destroy themselves makes us feel better about ourselves. This is especially so for people under public scrutiny such as celebrities. I think that part comes about from a couple of reasons, the first is that some people may feel if they can't enjoy the same fame why should the famous prosper, the other and more likely is that we get so sick of the overwhelming coverage celebrities get in the media that we vent our frustration at the celebrity rather than the media outlet.


* (refer to 1 2 3 4 5 6)
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Unread 17 Feb 2008, 14:13   #17
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
This could almost certainly be applied to some people who act or think in this manner but I doubt it's generally applicable. I certainly hope not.
You think that people enjoy watching other peoples lives fall apart due to some inherent characteristic that is genetically caused then?

If so, how is this better?
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Unread 17 Feb 2008, 14:14   #18
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I was looking for a better word to use in its place, but I figured that someone would bite and would be too upset to notice it. In any case, it's an interesting point, even if "seeing people suffer" is not something a human being needs to survive.
I'm not sure how many people get upset over the collapse of Britney Spears. Especially when the Spice Girls may never tour ever again!!!
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Unread 17 Feb 2008, 14:16   #19
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Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I'm not sure how many people get upset over the collapse of Britney Spears. Especially when the Spice Girls may never tour ever again!!!
Very true. I've always had a hard time seperating the important from the unimportant in this world. Thank you for your guidance and advice.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 17 Feb 2008, 14:18   #20
All Systems Go
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All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Bedlam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Very true. I've always had a hard time seperating the important from the unimportant in this world. Thank you for your guidance and advice.
No problem. Any other advice you might need, feel free to ask. I'm here all day, trying seriously hard to avoid doing my coursework.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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