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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:23   #1
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how do you become pa team

genuine question guys.


are people's shitness level scrutinized? what about their understanding of the game and it's concepts? and surely the ability to see what the game needs too of course right?


oh and is there any sort of screening process that goes on to keep up a good standard of work after joining the team?


round after round we hear and see and laugh and cry about the infamous ineptitude of the pateam, some try to defend it by saying they are doing it for free, but that is no real excuse, has anyone ever asked how certain people got to be pa team? note not all pa team are incompetant and/or idiots but too high a % are, why is this so?
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:35   #2
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Re: how do you become pa team

People become PA team based on their level of friendship with the current person in charge.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:36   #3
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Re: how do you become pa team

in the past theyve been recruited from previous teams, ie the support team.
as for the screening process after becoming pateam, i dont think there is. People have been kicked out or had it suggested to them that they leave after they cause a scandal or two ( eg prince ) but im unaware of any 'quality assurance' process currently in pateam.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:37   #4
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Re: how do you become pa team

I'm not entirely sure but I think there's a giant wheel of incompetence used at some point during the selection process.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:39   #5
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
genuine question guys.


are people's shitness level scrutinized? what about their understanding of the game and it's concepts? and surely the ability to see what the game needs too of course right?


oh and is there any sort of screening process that goes on to keep up a good standard of work after joining the team?


round after round we hear and see and laugh and cry about the infamous ineptitude of the pateam, some try to defend it by saying they are doing it for free, but that is no real excuse, has anyone ever asked how certain people got to be pa team? note not all pa team are incompetant and/or idiots but too high a % are, why is this so?
i get the intense feeling that maybe something/someone has spurned this on?

It has to be said that currently the PA Team is screening a new department responsible for the recruitment of people to the various departments working to ensure PA runs smoothly. This department might stay, it might not but its primary duties are to ensure that policies etc are in place to make sure that all things are working nicely.

Now i think we need to classify exactly what the PA Team is. The PA Team is ONLY department heads as such (that is Appocomaster, Marv, Kal, Mushroom, Cin and JammyJim) plus the Jolt Liason (biffy).

There are deputies below the PA Team and then department members. Examples of deputies are myself (for the people & organisation department), smudge (multihunters department) and timeline (support department). These deputies however are NOT PA Team.

Below the deputies are the teams. The support team has open applications for people to get involved. Multihunter team usually recruits from the support team members. The Ops team and forum team are invite only, and the people & organisation dept does not have team members.

Most PA Team have worked their way up from being support team and as such this is the only way of being appointed to the pa team at the moment.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:41   #6
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Re: how do you become pa team

theyve stopped giving the deputies access to #pateam?
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:42   #7
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
theyve stopped giving the deputies access to #pateam?
as far as im aware yes
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:44   #8
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Re: how do you become pa team

I dont think i can even be bothered to argue the case here. Yes i have bin PA Team, Yes i made a lot of enemies it seems while being there, but at the same time i had people praise the jugments i made. Fact is you will never win everyones vote. But, PA team members i like to think are not selected via 'knowing somone' as put above. They go through the system, Support team, MH Team, ect.

And yes they work hard in there own free time, while either studying/Working. They dont get payed or any praise, well perhaps of some people but most of the time as you cant win with everyone they get mostly stick. And they ofc dont get payed for it. And ive said this before, if you dont like PA teams decisions/Judegments.. perhaps you should sujst somthing instead of just casting vicious onslaughts toward the PA Team members?
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:51   #9
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef!
i get the intense feeling that maybe something/someone has spurned this on?
yes, the pa team's ineptitude in understanding what the game needs and a very slight skinned ego it seems in their inability to take criticism or accept change that is SORELY.NEEDED.FOR.THE.GAME.

this is hilariously highlighted in the fact that everyone else in #beta apart from me (and possibly keiz and nitina) who were people who are too nice to help game development. this isn't a criticism to the people but it just creates a stupidly cosy environment where boredom is let to reign supreme.

Quote:
It has to be said that currently the PA Team is screening a new department responsible for the recruitment of people to the various departments working to ensure PA runs smoothly. This department might stay, it might not but its primary duties are to ensure that policies etc are in place to make sure that all things are working nicely.
is this for future members or current as well?

Quote:
Now i think we need to classify exactly what the PA Team is. The PA Team is ONLY department heads as such (that is Appocomaster, Marv, Kal, Mushroom, Cin and JammyJim) plus the Jolt Liason (biffy).
i generally meant people involved in the running of planetarion. this also includes the support and so on teams, but ofcourse doesn't exclude the pa team itself


assassin: how do they get into the support team then? is it true that around r9 Kloopy brought in some friends of him from university into pa team, and those "friends" simply brought in more friends and so on until nepotism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism) ran rife?


edit:
Quote:
perhaps you should sujst somthing instead of just casting vicious onslaughts toward the PA Team members?
what does sujst mean?

edit2: ahhhhh suggest, what is the point of suggestions when it is nearly all ignored anyway? and why bother suggesting to people who the suggests incriminate?

Last edited by jerome; 12 Sep 2006 at 18:30.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:52   #10
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
I dont think i can even be bothered to argue the case here. Yes i have bin PA Team, Yes i made a lot of enemies it seems while being there, but at the same time i had people praise the jugments i made. Fact is you will never win everyones vote. But, PA team members i like to think are not selected via 'knowing somone' as put above. They go through the system, Support team, MH Team, ect.
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody appoints people they don't know into a position of power in a volunteer-run game unless they know them. This is the same for the mods team. We don't do interviews or CVs. We appoint people we think will do a good job. For us to know they're going to do a good job we have to know them. This is obviously open to massive amounts of abuse. It comes down to who the people in charge are as to whether or not this actually happens.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:53   #11
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quite obviously there's virtually no imagination left in PA Team. It's all been ground out of them while they were in 'training' on the Support/MH teams. This is why major companies bring in people from outside rather than appointing from within - because otherwise you just recycle the same old ideas again and again. Just look at the Suggestions forum and Appoco/Kal's proposals on it.

Chef's also confirmed that a PA Team member's performance is not subject to review - whereas appraisals happen regularly in almost every business. This 'People & Organisation Department' is a waste of time, as was repeatedly explained to PA Team on the private Reps forum. For those who don't know, the purpose of this department is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
  • To ensure that recruitment has some consistency across departments
  • To help share good ways of doing things across teams
  • To act as an impartial party in disputes within or between departments or between department members and department heads
  • To act as an objective viewpoint if a department feels they may need to take disciplinary action against a team member.
  • To formulate policies and rules for department memberships in conjunction with the heads of department.
  • The People and Organisation department will not have the authoirty to hire or fire people or to countermand decisions made within departments.
Since it's entirely staffed by people who were already PA Team members or closely involved with it, impartiality is hardly likely. We've seen again and again that the respected members of PA Team's subordinate departments have been asked to leave (NitanA, Fiery). A new person hasn't been appointed to PA Team for quite a while, and the last competent one to be appointed was probably Appocomaster. Which was back in ~Round 12.


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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:53   #12
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Re: how do you become pa team

they usually come in #support, ask if theres any positions available. if there are they get put on a trial for a period of time to see how things go.
it goes from there
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:56   #13
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Re: how do you become pa team

It is a sad truth that usually those who desire power are the least suitable to yield it.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:56   #14
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
is this for future members or current as well?
We are putting guidelines in place for current members of the teams to try and ensure good practise but they are only guidelines and they are used at the discretion of the department head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
assassin: how do they get into the support team then? is it true that around r9 Kloopy brought in some friends of him from university into pa team, and those "friends" simply brought in more friends and so on until nepotism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism) ran rife
Support team is open application, interview, trial period and whole team vote (by existing members of the support team).
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:58   #15
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Re: how do you become pa team

They're probably recruited on the basis of their observed willingness to perform thankless tasks for no visible benefit or meaningful achievement. This is a process not entirely unlike, say, the recruitment of IRC operators and other such internet volunteers.

Assessing someone's value purely by observing their actions on the internet is difficult, particularly when nobody is being paid for any of it. The lack of incentives also means that many better-qualified and suitable people will never put themselves forward; if only a monumentally stupid person would hang around being helpful to a bunch of ungrateful internet people for no reward, then only monumentally stupid people will be recruited. Anyone who thinks that they could do a better job than PA team should reflect on that; if they had been willing to prove their worth by volunteering to help out then they probably would have been recruited. But they weren't, and from that we can conclude that they probably don't really want the position, they just want the free lunch fairy to provide them with a bunch of super-talented and dedicated other people to run the game without being paid for it.

Also, the lack of financial reward for being part of PA team means that the only way the position can hold any attraction is by conferring status/power on people as a reward. But power comes from Jolt, and Jolt will, I imagine, not generally be willing to risk giving power to anyone who has particularly strong ideas about how things should be done. And power without a budget is really only power to issue edicts and write plans; it's not power to get something done. This leaves only status; ops in #planetarion, some special rank on the forums, general bragging rights, perhaps the ability to go administrative on some multi's ass once in a while. This is what most PA team people's reward is. As an aside, Chef's (does anyone remember when Chef was the latest idiot newbie to pollute the Alliance Recruitment forum with needlessly grandiose plans for the Next Big Alliance, to be run entirely by people who didn't know an Interceptor from a Tarantula? I do. What's really weird is that he'd already been playing the game for about two years) post above is a perfect example: it's full of obsessively hair-splitting definitions of the various ranks and levels within (and below!) PA team, and talk of managers, committees, deputies, policies, primary duties and other bits of idiot-speak that puffed-up nobodies since time immemorial have used to make it sound like what they're doing has some purpose. Who has access to what is treated as a matter of high importance, because it's all they've got. When your only reward is your rank, it becomes crucially important to establish your seniority and importance.

All in all, it's a perverse system - a pseudo-popularity contest to see who should have the rights to sit at the captain's table for a while. The fact that the ship is called the SS Titanic appears to have escaped most people's attention
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 16:59   #16
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Re: how do you become pa team

wow really? was appoco was the last new one? no wonder if every new recruit gets bogged down to his knees like he did with work (or indeed, probably still does)

chef: what about the second question with regards to the r9 thing
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:02   #17
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody appoints people they don't know into a position of power in a volunteer-run game unless they know them. This is the same for the mods team. We don't do interviews or CVs. We appoint people we think will do a good job. For us to know they're going to do a good job we have to know them. This is obviously open to massive amounts of abuse. It comes down to who the people in charge are as to whether or not this actually happens.

You get to know them THROUGH the support/MH Team. When they come here applying to help they havent got a clue who they are. When i joined support team none of the PA Team knew me. Probably knew my nick as i have bin involved with PA since day one. Hence why i care a lot about this game. So, you appoint somone based on the fact you know them and think they will do a great job to be a forum mod correct? Well thats the difference. The Support team is there to see how people act toward customers, you go through that, then go through MH. You dont just walk in, say 'Hey i know you appoc can i be PA Team?' doesnt work im afraid.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:05   #18
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
You get to know them THROUGH the support/MH Team. When they come here applying to help they havent got a clue who they are. When i joined support team none of the PA Team knew me. Probably knew my nick as i have bin involved with PA since day one. Hence why i care a lot about this game. So, you appoint somone based on the fact you know them and think they will do a great job to be a forum mod correct? Well thats the difference. The Support team is there to see how people act toward customers, you go through that, then go through MH. You dont just walk in, say 'Hey i know you appoc can i be PA Team?' doesnt work im afraid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
Support team is open application, interview, trial period and whole team vote (by existing members of the support team).
Dig it?
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:07   #19
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Re: how do you become pa team

Your point is? Hes reffering to the support team. Im telling you that you go through that and thats how PA Team establish how good you are. If anything what chef says just points out what i said.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:09   #20
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Your point is? Hes reffering to the support team. Im telling you that you go through that and thats how PA Team establish how good you are. If anything what chef says just points out what i said.
My point is that there's no discretionary process or outside review or anything. It's all internal. So it could be based on quality or it equally could be a popularity contest. It could also be based on how many pairs of white trainers they own for god's sake.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:12   #21
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
As an aside, Chef's (does anyone remember when Chef was the latest idiot newbie to pollute the Alliance Recruitment forum with needlessly grandiose plans for the Next Big Alliance, to be run entirely by people who didn't know an Interceptor from a Tarantula? I do. What's really weird is that he'd already been playing the game for about two years) post above is a perfect example: it's full of obsessively hair-splitting definitions of the various ranks and levels within (and below!) PA team, and talk of managers, committees, deputies, policies, primary duties and other bits of idiot-speak that puffed-up nobodies since time immemorial have used to make it sound like what they're doing has some purpose.
At a point in the past yes i was the person who was 'polluting alliance recruitment' with the next big alliance thread, but at a point after that i was the moderator of the same forum, because i actually made an active effort to put something into the game, helped new players, gained the respect of the mods at the time (shadow1980, mikeUK etc). I find it hard to believe rob that you are judging my entire 5 years in PA on some posts i made on AR, now if you would like to get over your little dig at me and get back to the topic that would be just lovely. </offtopic>

Jer - with regards to this "round 9" incident your talking about i cant really comment as i wasnt involved with the support team at that time.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:17   #22
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
You dont just walk in, say 'Hey i know you appoc can i be PA Team?' doesnt work im afraid.
How about instead your fancy new People & Organisation Department:

1) Finds someone in a high-ranking alliance position who might be capable of bringing fresh ideas to PA Team;
2) Speaks to its contacts (i.e. mates of the members of the Department) to discover how the person is regarded and how they interact with others;
3) Finds out whether or not it's thought that they might be interested in such a role;
4) Makes an internal decision as to whether or not the person would be the right kind of person to bring into the Team;
5) Approaches the player to ask whether or not they would be interested.


The person in question wouldn't be asked right until the end whether or not they're interested. Of course, this would require good personal skills and for someone in PA Team not to have burnt all their bridges with their past alliances. Oh well, we can dream....
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:37   #23
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Re: how do you become pa team

I'm sorry
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:40   #24
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
1) Finds someone in a high-ranking alliance position who might be capable of bringing fresh ideas to PA Team;
#alliances gives us ideas and we've also recruited members of the staff from alliances; myk being an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
2) Speaks to its contacts (i.e. mates of the members of the Department) to discover how the person is regarded and how they interact with others;
This happens already

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
3) Finds out whether or not it's thought that they might be interested in such a role;
Interviews / informal chats are held with the relevant person and then this information is passed on

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
4) Makes an internal decision as to whether or not the person would be the right kind of person to bring into the Team;
With regards to people coming onto Support / MH Teams, people on those teams are asked and a vote is undertaken

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
5) Approaches the player to ask whether or not they would be interested.
No answer needed; if they are interested they have a trial, if not we go our seperate ways.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:40   #25
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
How about instead your fancy new People & Organisation Department:

1) Finds someone in a high-ranking alliance position who might be capable of bringing fresh ideas to PA Team;
2) Speaks to its contacts (i.e. mates of the members of the Department) to discover how the person is regarded and how they interact with others;
3) Finds out whether or not it's thought that they might be interested in such a role;
4) Makes an internal decision as to whether or not the person would be the right kind of person to bring into the Team;
5) Approaches the player to ask whether or not they would be interested.


The person in question wouldn't be asked right until the end whether or not they're interested. Of course, this would require good personal skills and for someone in PA Team not to have burnt all their bridges with their past alliances. Oh well, we can dream....
Right Editting the last post. The post you made BEFORE this one you have pasted somthing from a private forum. A quote from Kal. I thought you knew better then to do that furball?


And as far as the points above go. Well, tbh thats what #alliances is for. For the reps to speak to the PA Team and give there ideas etc. For people wanting to join the PA Team they can go through support as ive said all through the thread.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:41   #26
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
How about instead your fancy new People & Organisation Department:

1) Finds someone in a high-ranking alliance position who might be capable of bringing fresh ideas to PA Team;
2) Speaks to its contacts (i.e. mates of the members of the Department) to discover how the person is regarded and how they interact with others;
3) Finds out whether or not it's thought that they might be interested in such a role;
4) Makes an internal decision as to whether or not the person would be the right kind of person to bring into the Team;
5) Approaches the player to ask whether or not they would be interested.


The person in question wouldn't be asked right until the end whether or not they're interested. Of course, this would require good personal skills and for someone in PA Team not to have burnt all their bridges with their past alliances. Oh well, we can dream....
As far as i was made aware the recruitment to that department was made open to all to apply...and everyone was interviewed entirely the same for fairness and equal opportunities.

As for the support team...

A position on the support team is made open for all to apply. Once they have been through an initial interview (why they want to join support team etc) they are placed on a 2-4 week trial period where they are assessed on their ability to help fellow gamers. At the end of the trial every member of the support team is asked for their opinion on whether this person is suitable for the vacant position or not..be it if they know the person before the trial or not. If the person has a majority yes vote then they are accepted and join the support team, if they have a majority no vote then they are informed of the reasons as to why they did not pass the trial. If a person is asked to try out by a member of the team that person must go through the same procedures as an applicant and to be honest has stricter requirements to prove due to the invite.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:52   #27
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Re: how do you become pa team

Just my two penneth worth....

I see too many people wittering and complaining on these forums about the standard of the pateam in its current state. Excuse my ignorance on this matter as the only member i have had any dealings with was Appoco whom i found to be extremely helpful and a good listener.

I will admit there are aspects of the game i dislike(with a passion) but the problem i have is that i cant come up with any suggestions that work better than whats already in place.
No new pateam members since r12 did i see posted, i wonder why. All people do on these forums is berate them and try to belittle them with jibes about incompetance and unwillingness to improve the game.
The people we should be putting pressure on is Jolt directly imo, as far as im concerned they are the only people that can make any significant improvements to the game through cash injection for new design and advertising.

Has anyone actually tried that? I guess they would have but i would be interested to know.

In the meantime can we have less of the flaming of pateam on the forums and if we have any meaningful and realistic improvements we can offer do it in a more positive manner, people complain about lack of new blood and interest in the game its hardly surprising if they read the forums first its all negativity.

From reading the forums in my short time here i find it as no surprise whatsoever that nobody is remotely interested on taking on such a thankless and (getting to the point of being) pointless task as pateam.

Keep trying pateam i know i cant do better so you have my support.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:54   #28
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATRO
Just my two penneth worth....

I see too many people wittering and complaining on these forums about the standard of the pateam in its current state. Excuse my ignorance on this matter as the only member i have had any dealings with was Appoco whom i found to be extremely helpful and a good listener.

I will admit there are aspects of the game i dislike(with a passion) but the problem i have is that i cant come up with any suggestions that work better than whats already in place.
No new pateam members since r12 did i see posted, i wonder why. All people do on these forums is berate them and try to belittle them with jibes about incompetance and unwillingness to improve the game.
The people we should be putting pressure on is Jolt directly imo, as far as im concerned they are the only people that can make any significant improvements to the game through cash injection for new design and advertising.

Has anyone actually tried that? I guess they would have but i would be interested to know.

In the meantime can we have less of the flaming of pateam on the forums and if we have any meaningful and realistic improvements we can offer do it in a more positive manner, people complain about lack of new blood and interest in the game its hardly surprising if they read the forums first its all negativity.

From reading the forums in my short time here i find it as no surprise whatsoever that nobody is remotely interested on taking on such a thankless and (getting to the point of being) pointless task as pateam.

Keep trying pateam i know i cant do better so you have my support.
Nice post ^^
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 17:56   #29
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Re: how do you become pa team

Getting in to PA team has in the past normally been more about who you know rather than what you know. Support team always seemed to be the easier route in to PA team in my eyes. If you did enough sucking up and became friends with the right PA team members they would suggest your promotion without bothering to think about whether you could actually do the job to any decent standard. Once you were in PA team it was a pretty easy ride. Nobody really hassled you to do stuff and unless you broke a rule you were never going to be kicked out for lazyness. That tended to mean the majority of the work within PA team was done by the few members that cared about the good of the game rather than the 'fame' that goes with being PA team.

I've no idea what PA team is like these days but by the sounds of this new department its pretty much the same. They always used to make up new job titles just to justify someones position.

Edit:
I typed this an hour ago and forgot to press post .
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:14   #30
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Re: how do you become pa team

atro: appoco is a nice person but i find he is too easily swayed and avoids conflicts with his much less competant colleagues. and as you have yourself stated you only dealt with him, whereas the rest of us have experience with a lot of them i'd hope you give us a benefit of the doubt in our opinions.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:28   #31
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Re: how do you become pa team

I think this whole thing is sparked by a totally different event, am I right jer ?
And YES even I try and help with beta testing to make the game bug free and with stats ppl can play with.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:28   #32
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
atro: appoco is a nice person but i find he is too easily swayed and avoids conflicts with his much less competant colleagues. and as you have yourself stated you only dealt with him, whereas the rest of us have experience with a lot of them i'd hope you give us a benefit of the doubt in our opinions.
I think there is a huge difference between giving out your apinion, to trying to slater the whole PA Team and the former PA Team members that have worked hard round after round after round.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:33   #33
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Re: how do you become pa team

ace: obviously i was annoyed by that cin guy's stupidity and even amused/sent to despair by the whole of pa team's reluctance for change, but it did provide good inspiration for some pretty important questions. wouldn't you agree?

willz: do you think they are doing a good job?
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:36   #34
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Re: how do you become pa team

jer: you know I said I was very intrested to try the things you suggested and I even stood up for you after you got kicked out.
But looks like some of the changes you suggested after being under fire for about 2 hours didn't go over well.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:36   #35
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Re: how do you become pa team

is it cuz jer is black?


racists.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:37   #36
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
but at a point after that i was the moderator of the same forum, because i actually made an active effort to put something into the game, helped new players, gained the respect of the mods at the time (shadow1980, mikeUK etc)
I know this is way off topic but are you sure you moderated AR? From what i remember from back then Shadow1980 went AWOL leaving no mod on AR. You asked JJ to be made mod and didnt realise that the mod team has an 'anyone that asks to be a mod isnt joining the team' policy so he gave it to me instead. I dont remember you being a mod in my time on the mod team which spans god knows how long. I may well be confusing you with somebody else but my memory doesnt fail me often.

Back on topic. PA teams main problem has always and probably still is that there are far too many yes (wo)men in it.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:40   #37
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
blah
Some wonderful replies; if only the two of you had understood the post itself.

What I'm proposing is that you bring someone directly into PA Team without forcing them to abandon all hope first via the Support/MH teams. Put that person in charge of Development and give them a free role - supervised by Appocomaster, of course. Let them '**** some shit up' (if you'll excuse my Esperanto) and give us a revised game. This is similar what was done when putting Sid in charge of the shipstats for Round 11.

Both of you seem to comprehend the individual parts to the process I outlined, but not the process itself - nor the importance of having it happen in roughly that order. Nor, as I said before, did you seem to grasp the concept of putting someone straight onto PA Team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
And as far as the points above go. Well, tbh thats what #alliances is for. For the reps to speak to the PA Team and give there ideas etc. For people wanting to join the PA Team they can go through support as ive said all through the thread.
#alliances is a talking shop where he who shouts loudest eventually wins. There's never been any PA Team encouragement for alliances to propose people to join PA Team, nor do I believe that there ever would be.

At the moment PA Team seems identical to the senior British Civil Service - recruiting from within and repeating the same old ideas. What I suggest is that someone is brought in from outside into a high management position, as often happens in British companies - where the new CEO is from a different organisation and has already succeeded at this level.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:41   #38
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
I know this is way off topic but are you sure you moderated AR? From what i remember from back then Shadow1980 went AWOL leaving no mod on AR. You asked JJ to be made mod and didnt realise that the mod team has an 'anyone that asks to be a mod isnt joining the team' policy so he gave it to me instead. I dont remember you being a mod in my time on the mod team which spans god knows how long. I may well be confusing you with somebody else but my memory doesnt fail me often.
No your wrong JC... memory failage ... i was appointed before JJ even took over the forums from Messiah & Mer.

By your own admission in my leaving thread.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:45   #39
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
ace: obviously i was annoyed by that cin guy's stupidity and even amused/sent to despair by the whole of pa team's reluctance for change, but it did provide good inspiration for some pretty important questions. wouldn't you agree?

willz: do you think they are doing a good job?
Do i think there doing a good job? I cant really comment as i am not playing. I am retired. But, this whole thread sujests your claiming ALL PA Team members havent done a good job. Your questioning how they are recruited to PA Team in the first place.

For example you said:

'round after round we hear and see and laugh and cry about the infamous ineptitude of the pateam, some try to defend it by saying they are doing it for free, but that is no real excuse, has anyone ever asked how certain people got to be pa team? note not all pa team are incompetant and/or idiots but too high a % are, why is this so?'

As i said. There is a difference between dissagreeing with the current PA Teams decisions to trying to slater past ones. I think we can all do our bit to improve the game, but bad mouthing the PA Team isnt one of them.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:45   #40
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Some wonderful replies; if only the two of you had understood the post itself.

What I'm proposing is that you bring someone directly into PA Team without forcing them to abandon all hope first via the Support/MH teams. Put that person in charge of Development and give them a free role - supervised by Appocomaster, of course. Let them '**** some shit up' (if you'll excuse my Esperanto) and give us a revised game. This is similar what was done when putting Sid in charge of the shipstats for Round 11.
Yes that's all well and good but who's going to put time and effort into it?

People have the best intentions but when it comes to the crunch not many people will contribute much to the game (except for throwing together a new few shipstats, which anyone can do).
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:51   #41
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Do i think there doing a good job? I cant really comment as i am not playing. I am retired. But, this whole thread sujests your claiming ALL PA Team members havent done a good job. Your questioning how they are recruited to PA Team in the first place.

For example you said:

'round after round we hear and see and laugh and cry about the infamous ineptitude of the pateam, some try to defend it by saying they are doing it for free, but that is no real excuse, has anyone ever asked how certain people got to be pa team? note not all pa team are incompetant and/or idiots but too high a % are, why is this so?'

As i said. There is a difference between dissagreeing with the current PA Teams decisions to trying to slater past ones. I think we can all do our bit to improve the game, but bad mouthing the PA Team isnt one of them.
i have done my bit by making an excellent set of stats, which is being blocked by the pa team for usage for next rnd as they're too afraid of extreme change, so that's me disagreeing with the current pa team's decisions then!

also: "But, this whole thread sujests your claiming ALL PA Team members havent done a good job." to your own quote of my post "note not all pa team are incompetant and/or idiots but too high a % are, why is this so?"

the thread is a cause and effect thing, effect: planetarion being subjected to bad decisions, possible cause: bad decision makers?

(this all being said noone has mentioned jolt because there is no way in hell they'll ever even listen to any of us, maybe this is also the case with the pa team&co)
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:54   #42
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef!
No your wrong JC... memory failage ... i was appointed before JJ even took over the forums from Messiah & Mer.

By your own admission in my leaving thread.
JC is probably confused over the second time you were made AR mod. That particular event fits JC's recollection. That said yes, you were a moderator before then, of AR (and possibly one of the other forums that doesn't exist anymore).
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 18:56   #43
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Yes that's all well and good but who's going to put time and effort into it?

People have the best intentions but when it comes to the crunch not many people will contribute much to the game (except for throwing together a new few shipstats, which anyone can do).
There have been enough initatives in the past for me to believe that someone would do it.

e.g. alch's Mentor Team, forest privately MHing every round, etc.


Star Wars provides the answer to your "yes, but".

Luke: All right, I'll give it a try.
Yoda: No. Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try.


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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:03   #44
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Re: how do you become pa team

I think a lot of people feel disillusioned with PA Team also because they don't know what you guys do.

The job titles you all have is fine but it doesn't really tell us what your job role is, or who is responsible for what.

As far as I can see (with the exception of Chef who is doing the portal, JJ who runs the forums, and Appoco who seems to do everything else) the other non-coders of PA Team don't seem to do anything except come into #planetarion when something breaks and +m everyone until someone else comes in to tell the people in there what's going on.

Now I expect I'm wrong, and I'm sure you all do work hard - but without us (us being the community) knowing what these job titles mean, of course you're going to be slated. As a lot of the work you do behind the scenes will go unnoticed.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:10   #45
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Re: how do you become pa team

Wow, another PA Team is shit thread, how wonderfull, and how constructive (*not*).

Instead of posting an insulting thread after you got refused on your stats (thats the only reason for your posting im afraid), you could also have tried a different approach, in a positive manner.

You missed a chance here.

Im not commenting on your stats, as im a poor stats analyser.

What I do want to say: if you have an idea (in this case, your stats), it doesn't make them good or needed just because you and some of your mates say they are. Try to understand that you could be wrong. I am not saying you are wrong (i didnt look them over, remember), but i'm saying you couldbe wrong.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:20   #46
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Re: how do you become pa team

regardless of the stat issue he does have a point remy (though i don't agree to the tone set in the op).

Past rounds haven't really shown an active PaTeam. There seem to be only a handfull of ppl (like Appoc for one) who do everything concerning the development of the game. We could ofc be wrong, but considering the changes we've seen in PaX the past 2 years (which were mostly bug fixes or stats changes every round) the game hardly developed. And seeing the 'credits' page there appear to be dozens of ppl involved into producing effectively nothing. And untill we see some changes, like a more open PaTeam that actually shows what they are doing (and more importantly know what they are doing) i doubt the general opinion on the PaTeam will change, though some ppl in might be considered great assets for the game.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:20   #47
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Re: how do you become pa team

furball's points regarding the lack of recruitment outside of the support/MH teams is probably one of the main problems. There are quite a few people who might be able to contribute something to improve Planetarion but don't want to join a support team before doing what they're best at.

Just give some new fresh people the chance to improve a part of Planetarion which needs help, but doesn't require access to anything. A few examples could be that the user interface for the game needs updating, the manual needs reworking to be more friendly, the game needs a tutorial, etc. I'm sure there are other areas which badly need improving but nobody is going to update them because theres not enough people willing to do it.

It seems that Planetarion needs a manager who can run the overall thing, deals with recruitment, the sub-projects and has an overall vision. At the moment Planetarion is wandering along with minor patches and nothing new appearing.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:26   #48
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
Wow, another PA Team is shit thread, how wonderfull, and how constructive (*not*).

Instead of posting an insulting thread after you got refused on your stats (thats the only reason for your posting im afraid), you could also have tried a different approach, in a positive manner.

You missed a chance here.

Im not commenting on your stats, as im a poor stats analyser.

What I do want to say: if you have an idea (in this case, your stats), it doesn't make them good or needed just because you and some of your mates say they are. Try to understand that you could be wrong. I am not saying you are wrong (i didnt look them over, remember), but i'm saying you couldbe wrong.
it's ok, i'm a great stats analyser and state that my stats are great. but my stats isn't the actual point, agreed that they are the basis for what spurred the questions in the op though.
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:28   #49
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Re: how do you become pa team

the problem with an overall managerial/dictatorial position is that when they disappear, everything grinds to a halt. It happened with mrbrick and theres nothing to say it wont happen with anyone else which assumes the position.
its why the team was restructured to deliberately seperate them so if one person disappears - only one department is affected instead of everything
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Unread 12 Sep 2006, 19:45   #50
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Re: how do you become pa team

But why isn't there a game development department? :crymeariver:
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