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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 17:33   #201
Stoom
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

So ehm, did anything change since last week?
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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 17:41   #202
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
So ehm, did anything change since last week?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^ on 16 Aug 2007
Mistake, will correct, sorry.

Couple more changes coming too

UPDATE UPDATE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^ on 20 aug 2007
Probably tomorrow, I broke my laptop last week, hence the no activity at home.

Ill address the rest of the points tomorrow. Most of the changes probably being little tweaks to AC/DC and E-Res.

The biggest change I'm thinking will be ETD Investor firing before Dragons, to make Terran's attack options less as well as the incoming against ETD. The investor will more than likely be an efficent BS killer (more so than the scorp), to give the ETD race as a whole more demand in an organised BP.
Nothing "new" since then
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 16:27   #203
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Are you fixing the ****** stats or not game?
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 16:56   #204
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

i fail to see ANY corvette ships in that link
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 18:21   #205
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Click the link that says "Stats", at the bottom of the page.
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 19:04   #206
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

So apart from Xan being rediculously strong, it's not that bad I guess.
And the Xan part we can trace back to Game not being used to playing anything but Xan so it's all ok guys!

But seriously, lower spectres a/c d/c and make a zik Fr steal. ****ing zik with a kill roidfleet. Are you mental or what?
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 21:27   #207
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Is there likely to be anymore adjustments before R23? or is the updated update finalised?
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 07:26   #208
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
So apart from Xan being rediculously strong, it's not that bad I guess.
And the Xan part we can trace back to Game not being used to playing anything but Xan so it's all ok guys!

But seriously, lower spectres a/c d/c and make a zik Fr steal. ****ing zik with a kill roidfleet. Are you mental or what?
Wat MAAAAAAAAAN. The spectre is like it is because buttraxii got anally plundered a lot during Monroe's era because of the bumbum chukkachukka battleship fleets around. Are you trying to say there's a tuxed0 -effect in the xandathrii of these stats? To be honest, I think moving phoenix back to fighter and making it (along with harpy) significantly smaller in size would achieve a nerf for xandathrii too.


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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 10:55   #209
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
So apart from Xan being rediculously strong, it's not that bad I guess.
And the Xan part we can trace back to Game not being used to playing anything but Xan so it's all ok guys!

But seriously, lower spectres a/c d/c and make a zik Fr steal. ****ing zik with a kill roidfleet. Are you mental or what?
It's rather amusing the different prospectives you get from people, read back through the thread and you'll see numerous people complaining at how UNDER powered Xan are!
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 10:56   #210
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Wat MAAAAAAAAAN. The spectre is like it is because buttraxii got anally plundered a lot during Monroe's era because of the bumbum chukkachukka battleship fleets around. Are you trying to say there's a tuxed0 -effect in the xandathrii of these stats? To be honest, I think moving phoenix back to fighter and making it (along with harpy) significantly smaller in size would achieve a nerf for xandathrii too.


Chumbawabbachumbawabba.
The idea behind moving the phoenix to an FR class ship in the first place was to give ETD's a good chance of roiding Terrans.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 11:08   #211
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Would the investor then be changed to a kill ship? Not that there would be a huge difference then. You could change the merchant to steal then though which improves etd back up a notch and hurts cath co a bit, which is fairly strong.
Yeah sounds good, as long as people dont OMG COMPLAIN, about a steal ship having an ini of 5. So to stop ETD CO roiding shit out of ETD.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 11:38   #212
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

People complain about everything anyways, the key is to avoid listening to the idiots.. Avoid compromise, accept nothing, take everything, write marketing slogans for Nike.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 13:59   #213
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
The idea behind moving the phoenix to an FR class ship in the first place was to give ETD's a good chance of roiding Terrans.
And the unanticipated side-effect was that corvettes became nigh unstoppable at alliance level?
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 16:09   #214
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
And the unanticipated side-effect was that corvettes became nigh unstoppable at alliance level?
3 out of 5 classes can make the eta required for CO incoming. 3 out of 5 classes make the eta required for FI too.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 16:51   #215
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
It's rather amusing the different prospectives you get from people, read back through the thread and you'll see numerous people complaining at how UNDER powered Xan are!
Most of those comments were from before your 2 updates. I think they are pretty balanced atm.
With these stats I would never pick them though, because they are no fun to play. Although that's about the same for every race in the current design. I'm missing the 'Cool! I want to try that!' factor.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 19:44   #216
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
3 out of 5 classes can make the eta required for CO incoming. 3 out of 5 classes make the eta required for FI too.
The classes are what? Fighter, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battleship. Isn't that like 2 out of 6 classes can make the ETA required, on cluster level 4 out of 6 (there's still a cluster defence prop right?). I can't quite grasp your thought.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 19:58   #217
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

He must have meant 3 out of 5 races.

Shame all those races have their anti co in their roidfleet :\
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 21:35   #218
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Looks we have 'final' stats in the new manual.
Are you sure about the Termite costing 2800/3200/3200?
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 21:42   #219
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

I dosnt like the look at cath co fleet :\
Merch's FR , stealing and INIT 5 ? A steal ship should never have so low init.!
And its EMP resistance is also way to high.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 21:54   #220
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

I think many people are blowing cath corvette fleets strength out of proportion.
After all, they have to freeze their way through two attack fleets (xan fi and zik fr) and two defence fleets with flak (ter fr and etd fr). I think cath co will have a rough time roiding around midround onwards.
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 01:20   #221
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I think many people are blowing cath corvette fleets strength out of proportion.
After all, they have to freeze their way through two attack fleets (xan fi and zik fr) and two defence fleets with flak (ter fr and etd fr). I think cath co will have a rough time roiding around midround onwards.
Dont forget to mention both beetle AND viper are weaker compared to last round's stats when u look at their efficiencies. Beetle been made a little cheaper, but lost 2 guns, the slightly lower e/r of some fi ships doesnt make up for it. Viper costs a little less then last round too, but e/r of both fr attackfleets have been altered + there's a lot more fr around too.

Cath CR on the other hand, has been made stronger, they emp the same or more value then last round. Only bad thing about it is that there's more fr flak and more bs > cr ships available.

I dont see why everyone thinks cath is so great?

PS: Dont even get me started on their defships.
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 02:43   #222
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

So When can we expect these uploaded onto the portal when Jolt's done on their end, next week? If so is the round to be delayed as the portal problem unfolds?
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 02:49   #223
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

The Cath face the same equation as always: start big, stay big. I too think the CR fleet is better than the CO.
BWs will fly low and in numbers, coz frustated Caths always like to build kill ships, coz that ship will be usefull vs Etd CO, and Xan fleets using COs protection. And in a face to face BWs confrontation, the advantage goes to the def...

It's funny to notice that despite having 2 races able to use EMP, none can EMP Corvettes
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 12:40   #224
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

http://www.appocomaster.co.uk/games_stats_4.htm
btw
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 18:10   #225
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Ok, just gonna add my 2 cents worth..

Anti-DE this round is looking a little lack-luster from a defensive points of view. The Cath and the Zik are the only races that have anti-DE ships that are not part of a roiding fleet, so they'd be relied on more than most for anti-DE defense. Only, the Zik anti-DE is a CR so that means that you only get 1 hour to organise defense from a DC's perspective in alliance, or similarly in-cluster. And the Spider is just too damned expensive to make it a viable option.

The Spider needs to be cheaper than it is or nobody will build them - and with two strong DE attacking fleets in the game this is really not a positive position to be in.

And I'm not saying make Caths stronger because from what I can see (/have read here) Caths seem to be quite strong already - but from an OVERALL perspective there needs to be better Anti-DE flying around than a banshee which'll get mauled by same-init pegs or a broker that has the same eta disadvantage as the Rogue and is again normally part of an attack fleet.

The idea is to allow players to both attack, and defend, right? Not limit them to one or the other...

But erm, yeah, that's all I've come up with so far.
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 22:58   #226
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

will the stats be changed agein. or are they what we se ingame??
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Unread 26 Aug 2007, 02:18   #227
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Beetle looks totally shit now :\
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Unread 26 Aug 2007, 03:57   #228
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Changes to ship names:

Phoenix -> Centaur (FR targetting CO)
Black Widow -> ? (a Black Widow is usually FR or bigger, and targets FR or bigger)
Corsair -> Thief (a steal ship must have a steal name)
Pirate/Marauder - own up, who swapped these two over?! Everyone knows a Pirate is a BS and a Marauder is a DE/CR.


No comment on ETD, there's less tradition behind their ships and I'm less familiar with them.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 15:39   #229
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^

Ill just simply now outline the principles of the ship stats.

Basically every race shouldn't be able to roid itself, with the one exception to this being Zik roiding Zik with FR ships (Zik is a 'special' case, and if you cant understand the reasons for this leave the thread now).

Cheers
Yea for all others than xan, so far. xan can roid them selfs with fi. why cant u give Phantom init 4? if not the stats are final?

Also do spider little stronger.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 16:03   #230
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
Yea for all others than xan, so far. xan can roid them selfs with fi. why cant u give Phantom init 4? if not the stats are final?

Also do spider little stronger.
Well xan can roid xan with fi incase the attacker don't mind loosing a big part of his fleet to the defending Wraith

As Game has stated it alot of times already, he wanted pegs and phantoms at the same init.

the only change left that i would suggest is the init of the scorpion

as the "one and only" anti Bs ship it should fire after his targets (dragon and tycoon) and after the ships that target the scorpion (spectre and investor)

so the init should be changed to 11

as said this will only effect battles where scorps fight against dragons, tycoons, spectres or investors.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 16:35   #231
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

wel, i may me wrong, but i think u will se xan roid xan. where the targeted xan have few wrait. its ofc an chicken manuver, but with bcalc telling u land and lose a few fi for score and roids.. if i was xan i prefere landing on a xan rather then a Ter. it supose to be oposit?

sorry for all wrong spellings.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 18:24   #232
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

I still think if the Banshee and Pegasus are going to become the same init then the Banshee needs to become a little more powerful or the Pegasus a little weaker... Both sides should come off badly rather than the Xan coming off much, much worth. The efficiencies were right when the Banshee shot first but not anymore...
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 19:17   #233
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

agree. Banshee and pegasus targeting eachother with same init. they are both attack ships. still easy to hit a ter as retal target for a xan.
But when when it comes to wraith, thats is a "def ship" an co that targets fi, but can never be used for it purpos. xan hiting them selfs. make wraith the ship it is supose to be by simply give the wraith rights to hurt the phantom.

I dont know why they have same init, they dont have 2. Xan gonna have plenty inc this round. no need for them hitting themself.

Also one more argument. There are not any def ship an ally can send to stop a FI fleet as the stats are now. and a def ship, is a ship not part of a fleet u use for getting roids with.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 20:42   #234
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

If you don't have enough wraiths and end up being hit by a xan, chances are you deserve being roided. You should always have enough to scare xan fi incs, and you should be able to get defence for those few crazy lemming runners.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 20:55   #235
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

And the bombers efficiency against nightmares is a joke. Actually, all of the co that targets nightmares have a pathetic efficiency. Maybe you should reduce the a/c of the nightmare a bit.
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 21:00   #236
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
If you don't have enough wraiths and end up being hit by a xan, chances are you deserve being roided. You should always have enough to scare xan fi incs, and you should be able to get defence for those few crazy lemming runners.
make phantom init 4, xan can use resourses on more importent ships, then building shitloads of wraiths
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Unread 27 Aug 2007, 22:02   #237
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

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Originally Posted by Captain
make phantom init 4, xan can use resourses on more importent ships, then building shitloads of wraiths
You don't need shitloads of wraiths. Their overall efficiency against xan fi is over 140%, that should be enough to scare any attacker with half a brain.
EDIT: If i were a xan wanting to play chicken, i'd actually hit with fr. Perhaps you should worry about the bomber and not the wraith.
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 00:33   #238
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
You don't need shitloads of wraiths. Their overall efficiency against xan fi is over 140%, that should be enough to scare any attacker with half a brain.
EDIT: If i were a xan wanting to play chicken, i'd actually hit with fr. Perhaps you should worry about the bomber and not the wraith.
additionally to this 140% (you're sure it's 140% as this sounds a little bit high when looking at the stats and I'm to tired to search for my pocket calculator now) the attacking xan will need to invest the bigger part of his fi resources into phantoms and not into banshees

the phantom is only better when attacking xan (who didn't built enought wraith)

against Ter (it's suecide anyway) you have to figth pegs so banshees are better
against Cath you have to get througth emp so smaller ships are better
banshees are better
against Xan phantoms are better due to the wraith
against Zik you've to fight buccaneers so banshees are better
against Etd: see cath

so against 4 races (only 3 of those are real targets the other one is a sueside mission) banshees are better
against the 5th race (which is a sueside mission) phantoms are better

additionally banshees are great for ally def against Zik De and in a teamup with spiders they are not that bad against ter de

phantoms aren't a match for BWs when defending against etd co and against cath co, cutlass are better than phantoms (banshees could possible be even better than phantoms in a teamup with cutlass, but again I'm to tired to search for my pocket calculator)

so i guess we won't see alot of xan fi fleets which are phantom heavy
and if there are some, i won't be upset if they get pegs incomming (as revenge for the last few rounds)
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 00:51   #239
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

i need you guys to start a new thread and start chattin it up specifically about official stats
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Unread 29 Aug 2007, 04:28   #240
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

ok, to start : the specific changes of the new stats are okay with me, but i'd like to point one thing out which i think was not fair to change:

why is the cloacked ship out of the etd fleet? It's part of their 'culture' (if i may be so free to use that word) to be a mixup of different specifics of all the other races. I'm okay with the merchant being changed to a steal - rather than cloacked - ship and im also okay with the fact that there's one ship taken away from the fleet but why not make one of the other still existing ones cloacked? This would make etd not really much stronger, but enough to make the balance a bit more fair

And looking at the current stats, etd really lack in power to stop fr, thus my advice would be to make the Vendor a cloacked ship! It would also make their co a bit more different from its cath counterpart

i've discussed it with others too, and there seems to be quite some ppl who agree? But if theres a good reason why the cloacked ship is gone, pls tell me..

Last edited by Onim; 29 Aug 2007 at 05:05.
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 13:41   #241
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

I still think xan is weak as **** but nvr mind, nobody cares about xan alsong as the precious etd & zik is still overpowered as usual
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 13:52   #242
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
I still think xan is weak as **** but nvr mind, nobody cares about xan alsong as the precious etd & zik is still overpowered as usual
WINTRADES WINTRADES WINTRADES!

Are you sure they aren't Sucktrades this round though?
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 14:34   #243
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

They do look liek sucktrades
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:31   #244
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

ima n00b, i dont understand anything pass target and type...
but they look like sucktrade to me.
now start a strategic discussion about the stats and stuff
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 12:14   #245
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

congrats game for creating crappier stats than monroe o/ it couldnt be easy but you made it, cudos to you
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 12:27   #246
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

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congrats game for creating crappier stats than monroe o/ it couldnt be easy but you made it, cudos to you
Were at PT 88, come back in 600 ticks, and then we'll look at it.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 13:34   #247
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

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Were at PT 88, come back in 600 ticks, and then we'll look at it.
better to do it now than saying "told you so" at tick 700
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 14:41   #248
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
better to do it now than saying "told you so" at tick 700
Maybe better to do it later when you have facts to backup what you are saying? ie the top 300-500 containing a large % of one particular race compared to their % of total planets?

(not that I'm saying you won't, I just prefer critisim to be justified, rather than "OMG YOU KILLED MY RACE THESE STATS ARE SHAT")
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 16:43   #249
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

One etd in the t100 so far
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 17:02   #250
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Re: Round 23 Ship Stats

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One etd in the t100 so far
Hopefully they'll be about 10 end of round
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