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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:05   #1
All Systems Go
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Removing Christmas

there was uproar last year when a city council decided not to have christmas celebrations and instead hold the celebration under a different name in case it offeneds the local minorities.

this year thay have decided to celebrate christmas.

Now, my point is this, should the government be doing anything at all for christmas?

Apparently we are a 'Christian country' but does that mean anything anymore?

Most people nowadays consider themselves Christians more as a result of being born here rather than any strong religious beliefs they may hold.

Christmas has been commercialised and is now a celebration of material posessions and our place of worhip is the highstreet.

Should the government be encouraging a 'Christmas feeling' when all it seems to do is pressure people into spending more money than they can afford to spend?

In a so-called multicultural society should we be promoting one faith over the other?

How far should the idea of separation of church and state go? (I know we're not in America but you get my point)
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:08   #2
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Re: Removing Christmas

Lambeth Council renamed their Christmas Lights to "Winter Lights" (for various reasons). This led to newspapers having the headline "Council bans Christmas." I personally thought this was hilarious and was content that no-one would be stupid enough to fall for such emotive drivel.

Twenty minutes later I was having a conversation with someone who said "Well they've banned Christmas now so we don't upset the muslims."

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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:17   #3
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Re: Removing Christmas

Ive already bought 3 xmas presents for my family.

If someone wishes the ban the xmas, thats fine with me, but NOT THIS YEAR.
That would make my purchases invalid AND I would miss out on a mp3-player worth nearly 200 quid.

Thank you.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:24   #4
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Re: Removing Christmas

My housemate was telling me about this the other day and was kicking up a fuss of PC gone mad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4407614.stm
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:32   #5
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Re: Removing Christmas

If the govenment is saying that everyone should fall on their knees and worship the baby Jesus then they should not be allowed to.

If the government is acknowleging what has become a sucular holiday for all practical purposes then it is hard to imagine the harm that is done by having Santa and his sleigh in the public square. (other than financial to some)

Traditional festivals are just that, traditional festivals. Let them be whether they be "Christian", "Muslim", "Hindu", pagan or whatever. (unless human sacrifice is involved)
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 01:48   #6
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Re: Removing Christmas

phhhhh...

Everyone who is anyone knows that Christmas and December 25th is the celebration of birth of the sun god Sol Invictus who was elevated to be head of the roman pantheon in 274 AD by Aurelian and that Constantine just re-named the celebration when he christianised the Empire...

well ... I suppose being a god does make me pay more attention to these things ...
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 02:03   #7
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Re: Removing Christmas

I like christmas. It's one of the few meals during the year when we serve more than one kind of meat
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 06:53   #8
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
well ... I suppose being a god does make me pay more attention to these things ...
Or you've just been reading Dan Brown's 'Novels'.

:/
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 10:49   #9
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
Or you've just been reading Dan Brown's 'Novels'.

:/
Or he's simply had a good education.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 12:31   #10
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
Or you've just been reading Dan Brown's 'Novels'.

:/
Quintillius Varus!

Is there any part of my people's history that that conspiracy theory spinning little shit won't pilfer for his ill gotten gain?

This is just another reason to HATE THAT ****ING SPASTIC MAN!!!
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 12:33   #11
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Re: Removing Christmas

I also think dan brown is a bit of a twat.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 13:18   #12
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Now, my point is this, should the government be doing anything at all for christmas?
No. It shouldn't be doing much of anything really.

[quoteApparently we are a 'Christian country' but does that mean anything anymore?[/quote]I'd be rather disgusted to find out I lived in a theocracy and I'm struggling to find any other way to intepret that statement without making it completely meaningless.

Quote:
Should the government be encouraging a 'Christmas feeling' when all it seems to do is pressure people into spending more money than they can afford to spend?
Well that's 90% of what our society's about anyways. Borrow money for a celebration and then pay it off during the new year. It hasn't led to the downfall of civilisation yet so I'm not sure if it's all that inherently evil. Clearly I'd prefer the government out of christmas but it's not like it does that much anyways. The fact shops have their christmas decorations up and their christmas goods out and the christmas adverts on christmas tv in a christmas world with a christmas girl in a christmas way is far more important for forming the belief that if you don't get people what they want for christmas they're going to kill you and peel your skin off your body. So unless you're banning that I doubt you'll achieve anything substantial.

Quote:
In a so-called multicultural society should we be promoting one faith over the other?
By we do you mean the government? If so, no. If by we you mean individual people then of course we should, multiculturalism is, or should be rather, all about tolerance of people's right to express themselves and their culture. That still includes WASP culture!

Quote:
How far should the idea of separation of church and state go? (I know we're not in America but you get my point)
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 14:16   #13
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Exclamation Re: Removing Christmas

Councils have no real powers anymore, so they start fiddling about with trivial issues and end up looking like nobs, which would be a pretty fair description of most of them. Councils - and Councillors - are there to be ignored. The fact that so many people pay attention when they 'ban' Christmas and all this rot never ceases to amaze me.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 16:12   #14
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Re: Removing Christmas

don't you guys have an established national christian church?

i mean, jesus ****ing christ, who moves to a country with a national church and complains about religious references on the rare occassions they come up?

you could say that the government shouldn't spend its money promoting such a holiday (with decorations and whatnot), but i'd argue that's counterproductive. people would voluntarily decorate their communities, which would be fine until it was discovered that the government had a vested interest in not having stop signs covered up by christmas trees. and pretty soon with all the permits and inspections etc you are probably spending more government money than you would have before. congrats.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 16:55   #15
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'd be rather disgusted to find out I lived in a theocracy and I'm struggling to find any other way to intepret that statement without making it completely meaningless.
Most religious people in this country consider themselves to be Christians. the CoE is Christian and the country has a long history of Christianity being the dominant religion. therefore, people argue that we live in a 'Christian country'. Usually this is just an bigotted attempt to complain about immigrants and the like but the fact is that there is a lot of this empty rhetoric flying around.

I suppose that my point is this, religion plays a smaller part in our lives now than at any time in the past, church attendances are dropping etc. In the past when the chruch had a more dominant part to play in society Britain was a 'Christian country' because that was the dominant religion of the time. People still refer to the county in this way but back then the term may have had some legitimacy (unlike the church itself) unlike now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The fact shops have their christmas decorations up and their christmas goods out and the christmas adverts on christmas tv in a christmas world with a christmas girl in a christmas way is far more important for forming the belief that if you don't get people what they want for christmas they're going to kill you and peel your skin off your body. So unless you're banning that I doubt you'll achieve anything substantial.
I would if I could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyBGood
By we do you mean the government? If so, no. If by we you mean individual people then of course we should, multiculturalism is, or should be rather, all about tolerance of people's right to express themselves and their culture. That still includes WASP culture!
I meant the government.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 17:00   #16
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Most religious people in this country consider themselves to be Christians. the CoE is Christian and the country has a long history of Christianity being the dominant religion. therefore, people argue that we live in a 'Christian country'. Usually this is just an bigotted attempt to complain about immigrants and the like but the fact is that there is a lot of this empty rhetoric flying around.
Yeah but what does that mean? A tradition of power being vested in a particular group doesn't mean it's necessarily right that this group should have that much power. Tradition is a useful guide at times but that's it really. A huge amount of immigrants are christian anyways so heaven alone only knows who uses that "logic".

Quote:
I suppose that my point is this, religion plays a smaller part in our lives now than at any time in the past, church attendances are dropping etc. In the past when the chruch had a more dominant part to play in society Britain was a 'Christian country' because that was the dominant religion of the time. People still refer to the county in this way but back then the term may have had some legitimacy (unlike the church itself) unlike now.
Maybe we should be a country that doesn't allow women the vote because it wasn't like that a hundred and fifty years ago! (Not aiming that at you, <3, just thought I'd throw it in there for good measure).
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 17:16   #17
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Re: Removing Christmas

When I saw the topic I thought someone had set up a fake forum account called "Christmas"
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 17:59   #18
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Re: Removing Christmas

Theres absolutely no reason for the government to be involved in Christmas in any way, shape or form. Also, Christmas isnt really a Christian holiday - its more about celebrating consumerism/capitalism than religion, which is a fairly thing all round. Theres still quite a few loons who want to pretend the true meaning of Christmas has something to do with Jesus, but for 90% of people its just about turkey, carols and presents.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 21:09   #19
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
don't you guys have an established national christian church?

i mean, jesus ****ing christ, who moves to a country with a national church and complains about religious references on the rare occassions they come up?
Well you see you have to understand what we did.

Now France removed religion from the state and that was how they moved forward into the modern era. But we already had the Church of England and constitutionally we need someone to crown the monarch.

So what we did was rather than take church away from state, we took God out of the Church of England.
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Unread 14 Nov 2005, 15:52   #20
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Re: Removing Christmas

People need something suitably cheery and rubbish to get them through the cold months
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Unread 14 Nov 2005, 23:35   #21
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Re: Removing Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by eJohn
People need something suitably cheery and rubbish to get them through the cold months
Like Happy Shopper Dutch lager ? Brewed since 1845 and thats well over 3 hours ago !
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