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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 22:50   #1
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Birmingham Riots

Well this happened to near where I lived and the whole of the area was shut off by the police. It was quite weird as I went back home this weekend but on saturday night and sunday night I went out came back and waited with my baseball bat, no one came and did some proper rioting.

Anyway the story that I heard about a week ago is that a 14 year old girl walked into a pakistani owned shop in Perry Barr. Now upon arrival she picked up what she wanted and then left without paying. She was promptly stopped by the owner and taken into the backroom.

Now here is where it gets ****ed up and is what I shall call part A to why the violence erupted. She was then gang raped multiple times by a group of 15-30 pakistanis, the figure isnt exactly known, but it is know whose shop it was and who were some of the people possibly involved. Now as I say I heard about this a week ago tuesday or something but the events that folded angered locals somewhat.

Firstly this girl is Jamaican. Now she isnt British thus she is in the country illegally, so in fear of herself and family being deported she wont come forward and speak to the police. Secondly the shop owner is under police protection. Now this obviously angers locals further.

Heres the problem then. The afro-carribean community in Birmingham know about the rape. Yet the police cant do anything, so they are taking matters into there own hands. This is what lead to the violence on saturday night. Now as soon as the afro-carribeans started running around targetting pakistani shops and the people, the pakistanis wanted to retaliate. I heard there was close to 200-300 pakistanis in Aston ready to come over to Lozells to fight, although the police wouldnt let them in.

Sunday the violence continued and ill be interested to see wether the violence will continue tonight.

Basically part B of the story is that pakistani businesses are generally pushing out the afro-carribean businesses in handsworth, lozells, perry barr, aston etc which in turn is pushing the afro-carribean out of there areas. This is causing tension and its been around for a long time. Generally the gangs are fighting over areas and drugs and its leading to a nasty feeling in the air.

Im hoping this wont esculate but at the moment it could very much see a repeat of the handsworth riots of 1985
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 22:55   #2
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Re: Birmingham Riots

I was waiting for someone to create a thread about this.

Surely they won't be targeting white folks around that area right?
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 22:57   #3
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Send in Charles Clarke , 500 immigration officers, and a huge amount of the trouble will disappear in 3-4 weeks.

Job Done.
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:01   #4
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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Originally Posted by Kurashima
Send in Charles Clarke , 500 immigration officers, and a huge amount of the trouble will disappear in 3-4 weeks.

Job Done.
They still might get shot. A police man in riot gear got shot in the thigh...
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:05   #5
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Re: Birmingham Riots

I'd be surprised if we didn't see more of this sort of thing over the coming years.

Although...the bit about the girl being gang raped...do we even vaguely have an idea of how true this might be (especially the details/scale of the attack)? Those sorts of things I could easily see getting exaggerated over time.

Interesting post though, thanks for the update.

p.s. Stupd question, but why did the person who died have a Korean sounding surname?
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:06   #6
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm
I was waiting for someone to create a thread about this.

Surely they won't be targeting white folks around that area right?
nope well not rezlly but they shudnt be targettin indians either but they may you can never tell some of the ppl are a bit dumb
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:09   #7
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Re: Birmingham Riots

What Dante says.

Racial tensions are or do seem to be getting worse and perhaps all it needs is a catalyst for things to actually erupt as appears to be the case in Birmingham.
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:10   #8
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Re: Birmingham Riots

you talk about the rape as if it definately happened. It's a rumour. Noone knows (except the girl and the men implicated) whether it really happened.

But yeh it's pretty ****ed up.
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:13   #9
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Re: Birmingham Riots

well the rape thing I think is true from what people have told me, however for legal reasons im assuming the papers et al cant say that its true incase they get sued. The guy who got stabbed was pakistani I think.
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:42   #10
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Re: Birmingham Riots

the BBC are saying it all started over a rape allegation as well tbh
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 23:45   #11
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Re: Birmingham Riots

The Kaiser Chiefs have a shitload to answer for.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:01   #12
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Re: Birmingham Riots

You have even more to answer for for making that joke.

Whats there to say? Two communities that havent integrated into British society. The afro-carribean population have managed better than the pakistanis though. They'll be a problem over the next few decades, make no doubt. Including such an introverted community in any sort of soceity is near ****ing impossible.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:13   #13
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Just when I thought muslim folk couldn't be involved in any more problems.... I guess Birmingham is a place to avoid then.

As an aside, I was listening to talk radio this morning, and apparently banks have stopped using cartoon pigs in their marketing ads, and natwest have stopped giving away free piggy banks because muslim folk have complained.

What next? Can we expect restaurants to shut down during the fasting times of Ramadan etc? Should we close down churches?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:20   #14
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Re: Birmingham Riots

The rape story is typical to this kind of situation.

Racial tensions evolving from competing economic interests frequently lead to propaganda and inflamatory stories.

It's no different from nazi propaganda against the jews during the 1930s.

The genius of such propaganda is to leave the lie in such a state that it 'might' be true. Young men who are already angry, who already hold racial prejudice will then believe that it is true. It is always easiest to manipulate those who want to be manipulated.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:32   #15
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
The genius of such propaganda is to leave the lie in such a state that it 'might' be true. Young men who are already angry, who already hold racial prejudice will then believe that it is true. It is always easiest to manipulate those who want to be manipulated.
Thats very true and to be honest the pakistanis arent liked too much in certain areas of birmingham. They are seen as taking over economically, culturally and in numbers. They are seen as a threat. Where as say 15 years ago certain areas of the city were certain races, now pakistanis tend to be moving into traditionally indian, afro-carribean or white areas and are causing conflict. Of course the religion has something to do with it, but I often feel that its there lack of integration. Its weird you will see whites, indians and afro-carribeans together, but you wont see pakistants, afro-carribeans, indians and whites together. More often than not pakistants are seen as moving in and then not integrating with the traditional community members.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:36   #16
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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Originally Posted by pig
More often than not pakistants are seen as moving in and then not integrating with the traditional community members.
oh i see, so it is there fault that they are being attacked is it?
their own fault that disgraceful lies and propaganda are said about the?
their own fault that criminals are destroying their property? physically attacking them and attempting to ruin their business.

some times your idiocy transcends even you.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:53   #17
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh i see, so it is there fault that they are being attacked is it?
their own fault that disgraceful lies and propaganda are said about the?
their own fault that criminals are destroying their property? physically attacking them and attempting to ruin their business.

some times your idiocy transcends even you.
I would say its there fault that they are trying to create gang wars with established gangs in there areas. I would say its there fault for increasing the drugs in the city. I would say its there fault for being the starters of alot of racial hatred in the city. Its not only there property being attacked, you must understand that. Birmingham is a multi cultural city and at the moment this area I guess is going through a power struggle. However I still believe the rape allegations. Something like this doesnt spread around unless it had a hint of truth surely.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 00:56   #18
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Re: Birmingham Riots

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However I still believe the rape allegations. Something like this doesnt spread around unless it had a hint of truth surely.
and jews really do eat babies.

stop being a spastic
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:01   #19
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Re: Birmingham Riots

And you wonder why your girlfriend is so cold with you yahwe, really.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:12   #20
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Re: Birmingham Riots

You are an asset to this Forum.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:23   #21
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Re: Birmingham Riots

And so are you!

Good job!
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:31   #22
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh i see, so it is there fault that they are being attacked is it?
their own fault that disgraceful lies and propaganda are said about the?
their own fault that criminals are destroying their property? physically attacking them and attempting to ruin their business.

some times your idiocy transcends even you.
Most times your ignorance of whats going on in the real world transcends even you.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:32   #23
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Kaneed it was:

2:8 "You are too"
6:4 "I'm rubber you are glue..."
100:1 "Yes I admit it; I really am a shit poster and if it wasn't for my 'friendship' with JJ I would have been banned by now"
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:35   #24
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
It's no different from nazi propaganda against the jews during the 1930s.


THE BLACKS ARE THE NEW NEO-NAZI'S!!!
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:37   #25
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Yahwe do you really pride yourself on being a good poster on the internet?

Does your life have so little outside of your job? to you
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:43   #26
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
Yahwe do you really pride yourself on being a good poster on the internet?

Does your life have so little outside of your job? to you

What you are really asking, though you are too cowardly to say it and thus dress it up in an insult, is:

Yahwe am I really that bad a poster?

And I'm afraid the answer is yes.

Of course I take GD seriously. It is actually quite hard you know to be a good poster. It takes an awful lot of effort. You can (if you want to open your eyes) see it in the other posters. Do you have any idea how much time 1x puts in? Do you have any idea how much thought and effort goes into other people's posts? Even making people laugh takes serious effort: farting and giggling just doesn't work anymore.

And the best you can do is regurgitate shit insults we all used when we were 8 years old? Or post threads asking everyone else to think for you and come up with your e mail address?

So I'm afraid that I do think that you are a bad poster. If you don't want to take GD seriously then go somewhere else.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 01:49   #27
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
So I'm afraid that I do think that you are a bad poster. If you don't want to take GD seriously then go somewhere else.


The YMCA?!
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 02:11   #28
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
So I'm afraid that I do think that you are a bad poster.
You are alone in your thoughts.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 02:13   #29
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Thread go back on topic now please. I really don't think any of us have enough information to draw a definite conclusion on the actual facts of the matter. Unfortunately it seems like this provided some form of spark-point for tensions between two different parts of the community. Attempt to bring this to court as quickly as possible so some results can be seen and everyone knows that action will be taken. It is a difficult situation though.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 02:14   #30
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Re: Birmingham Riots

You're not racist if you say that "black on black crime" is your favourite sort are you?!
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 03:50   #31
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Remember New Orleans? The press reported numerous rapes and murders in the Louisiana Superdome. When all was said and done the actual number of both was determined to be 0! Don't trust sensationalism. It will lead you astray.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 10:02   #32
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Ethnic conflicts are often sparked/fuelled by rumours - especially of rape (people get awfully upset when one of "their" girls is raped by someone else). There was an incident in the United States where more than a hundred people were killed after a white woman was allegedly raped by a black man (I think ultimately he was found not guilty, I can't recall all the details).

However, I don't feel this sort of thing merits direct comparisons with some other conflicts as it is not an overwhelming majority attacking a minority, nor is it a side with state power on one side or the other. These are two "minorities" (a silly way of describing it but formally true) against each other.

And in the end, sadly it doesn't matter much how true the original allegation is. Even if the rape thing was false (which as I said in my first post is certainly a possibility) the subsequent acts of violence were definitely true (and presumably people will want "revenge" for those too).
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 10:14   #33
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Re: Birmingham Riots

If that girl wasn't raped then not one good thing came out of this whole sorry situation




is this post "pushing the boundaries" for GD? (or is it not serious enough yahwe lolz)
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 12:27   #34
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Interesting Article

I bet the BNP are over the moon about whats happened in Birmingham.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 12:34   #35
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat

is this post "pushing the boundaries" for GD? (or is it not serious enough yahwe lolz)
Well, I thought I'd be pushing the boundaries with "How do you find 15-30 men to rape a girl?". Furthermore, how do you find 15-30 men that would want to rape a 14 year old, twisted fantasies aside and assuming they have soem kind of moral base.

I didn't think it would be good to ask because its bit objectionable, but I've asked now.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 12:39   #36
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh i see, so it is there fault that they are being attacked is it?
their own fault that disgraceful lies and propaganda are said about the?
their own fault that criminals are destroying their property? physically attacking them and attempting to ruin their business.

some times your idiocy transcends even you.
I would say it's certainly their fault for being an insular community and not doing themselves many favours in a lot of cases. They certainly don't make any effort to reach out to the rest of the community and in that sense, don't do themselves many favours, so it's no wonder there are people out there who treat them with suspicion.

Yes crime, lies and propaganda are disgraceful, but everyone makes steps to guard against it. Is it better to not talk to your neighbours and have them treat with you contempt and suspicion, or be reasonably friendly, talk to them so they have no base to spout crap at any opportunity?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 13:32   #37
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh i see, so it is there fault that they are being attacked is it?
their own fault that disgraceful lies and propaganda are said about the?
their own fault that criminals are destroying their property? physically attacking them and attempting to ruin their business.

some times your idiocy transcends even you.
doesn't lack of understanding often lead to these sorts of silly conclusions, lies and events?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 13:53   #38
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
Well, I thought I'd be pushing the boundaries with "How do you find 15-30 men to rape a girl?". Furthermore, how do you find 15-30 men that would want to rape a 14 year old, twisted fantasies aside and assuming they have soem kind of moral base.

I didn't think it would be good to ask because its bit objectionable, but I've asked now.
post on GD?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 14:13   #39
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Re: Birmingham Riots

I live the other side of town from said events and it seems pretty clear that the police are ill equipped to deal with such situations on todays streets, so i propose a square mile of velcro which can be lowered by helicopter plucking 50% of the trouble makers from the scene in one move. Easy.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 14:33   #40
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
post on GD?
I was gonna say the same thing!
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 16:39   #41
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I would say it's certainly their fault for being an insular community and not doing themselves many favours in a lot of cases. They certainly don't make any effort to reach out to the rest of the community and in that sense, don't do themselves many favours, so it's no wonder there are people out there who treat them with suspicion.

Yes crime, lies and propaganda are disgraceful, but everyone makes steps to guard against it. Is it better to not talk to your neighbours and have them treat with you contempt and suspicion, or be reasonably friendly, talk to them so they have no base to spout crap at any opportunity?


I find it hard to believe (and i live and work in one of the most diverse cities on earth) that they don't 'talk to their neighbours'.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 17:29   #42
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
I find it hard to believe (and i live and work in one of the most diverse cities on earth) that they don't 'talk to their neighbours'.
you see picture it like this

1960 you move to Aston
1970 you have a job, relative decent income and house
1980 you are doing ok, it can get better
1990 pakistani families move into your area
2000 you are unemployed, no money, the areas a shithole

etc etc
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 17:39   #43
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
you see picture it like this

1960 you move to Aston
1970 you have a job, relative decent income and house
1980 you are doing ok, it can get better
1990 police start clamping down on drug dealers
2000 you are unemployed, no money, the areas a shithole

etc etc
FIXED
Am i rite?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 17:51   #44
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Re: Birmingham Riots

lol, the police havent clamped down on drug dealers at all , its the local gangs who are clamping down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nusselt
I find it hard to believe (and i live and work in one of the most diverse cities on earth) that they don't 'talk to their neighbours'.
the problem is that this area isnt diverse so to speak, its full of african carribeans and pakistanis, thats not really diverse now is it. Diverse areas in my opinion would be say Handsworth where although majoirty indian, its pakistani, african carribean, chinese, vietnamese, white, afghan, all living together
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 17:57   #45
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Re: Birmingham Riots

I bet you the BNP Casual is thinking... Nice they are doing the work for us, now where is the beer and nuts and lets watch it on the tele. Racial tensions start off with lack of understanding and respect for other peoples cutltures.
I know It might have to with a mass rape thing. But the problem lies deeper this was just a catylist to the problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
Just when I thought muslim folk couldn't be involved in any more problems.... I guess Birmingham is a place to avoid then.
As an aside, I was listening to talk radio this morning, and apparently banks have stopped using cartoon pigs in their marketing ads, and natwest have stopped giving away free piggy banks because muslim folk have complained.
What next? Can we expect restaurants to shut down during the fasting times of Ramadan etc? Should we close down churches?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 17:59   #46
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
Just when I thought muslim folk couldn't be involved in any more problems.... I guess Birmingham is a place to avoid then.

As an aside, I was listening to talk radio this morning, and apparently banks have stopped using cartoon pigs in their marketing ads, and natwest have stopped giving away free piggy banks because muslim folk have complained.

What next? Can we expect restaurants to shut down during the fasting times of Ramadan etc? Should we close down churches?

I missed this post earlier. Thank you for bringing it up buddies it has made my day.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 18:40   #47
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
you see picture it like this

1960 you move to Aston
1970 you have a job, relative decent income and house
1980 you are doing ok, it can get better
1990 pakistani families move into your area
2000 you are unemployed, no money, the areas a shithole

etc etc,
Birmingham has always been a shit hole, im not sure what the correlation is between the pakis moving in and the path of your life. Your employment is probably outside the immediate area, what exactly have those damned pakis done? kill your boss and burn down your place of employment?

Quote:
the problem is that this area isnt diverse so to speak, its full of african carribeans and pakistanis, thats not really diverse now is it. Diverse areas in my opinion would be say Handsworth where although majoirty indian, its pakistani, african carribean, chinese, vietnamese, white, afghan, all living together
If you speak to the pakis do they respond? The implication in the thread has been of 'insular, cunning, wealthy business owning' scumbags etc. I agree with dante that widespread comparisons with the past serve no purpose, but i still take what yahwe says, the prejudices held by some in this thread could easily be transplanted onto anti-semitism of the past.

The insular pakistanis are bringing down the area and causing unemployment by owning the businesses becoming wealthy and moving in. Does that actually make any sense to anyone?
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 19:19   #48
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Well being a London boy i know of racial tension as if its the norm really. Indeed if something like that rape did happen, which from the media exposure it has received and the sheer scale of the resulting violence, i believe it did happen. I find it simply disgusting that this could be done to one indvidual, let alone a girl of the age of 14. Obviously it does not justify the resulting violence, but i do understand why it may have occured.

Going on to Birmingham from what i have heard of the area, never actually been there, but from what i have heard it is a very segregated community with the different ethnic minorities sticking to themselves with some tension developed between certain groups. With a catalyst such as this then i can see why these racial wars did take place. Birmingham isnt a nice place to be at the moment and im glad im all the way down in Bristol at uni.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 19:31   #49
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Re: Birmingham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
Indeed if something like that rape did happen, which from the media exposure it has received and the sheer scale of the resulting violence, i believe it did happen.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Remember New Orleans? The press reported numerous rapes and murders in the Louisiana Superdome. When all was said and done the actual number of both was determined to be 0! Don't trust sensationalism. It will lead you astray.
It may or may not have happened, going by hearsay alone is moronic.
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Unread 25 Oct 2005, 19:44   #50
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Re: Birmingham Riots

One day I'd like to see GD start a good rumour and see how far it went.
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