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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:32   #1
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AD mods

I like the way Lok just "decided" to select a new mod and such without consulting the actual 'community'. Also the fact we have another Ascendancy moderator after the recent favourism that has been debated recently.

I think its unfair to have another mod from a particular alliance, not because I'm personally accusing mz or lok to be biased with their judgements but sometimes the mind can perform wonderful activities which could result in an unaware moment of confusion in the brain causing judgements on moderator activities to be blurred and misguided which can result in the people not in Ascendancy posting on these boards, be disadvantaged by unfair modding.

Therefore I would like to put my name forward to be a mod on the AD forum as I have an unbiased view of all alliances, as you can see from my recent posting, not only have a matured massively but I dont favour any alliance but just post my opinions with backing up to support this. I'd strongly recommend a none Ascendancy player be made a mod to enable this forum to actually expand and not keep decreasing posting members which seems to be happening every round. This is the reason I have put my name forward, I'm well aware there could be better candidates.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:34   #2
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Re: AD mods

I'd do it again, but I hate you all!
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:37   #3
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
I'd do it again, but I hate you all!
You're kind of too associated with Ascendancy, and here we go again
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:40   #4
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Re: AD mods

I think mz is a seriously awesome e-person and will make an excellent moderator but, for obvious reasons, a mod outside of Ascendancy would have been preferable.

To be clear, I would disagree with cba's grievance of actual bias, but perception of bias is another thing entirely.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:45   #5
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Re: AD mods

Lok asked me my opinion on this. There wasn't anyone I could think of that would do a better job than mz. I, in fact, went through a number of recent threads scanning for non-ascendancy posters who I thought would be a) interested enough to do and b) capable of doing a good job as a moderator. I did not find any that fitted both categories.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:55   #6
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Re: AD mods

As the creator of AD and AR, former moderator of AD, former supermod, former forums admin and former PATeam member...

...I wholeheartedly endorse mz's appointment


edit: and former multihunter, i forgot about that
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:56   #7
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Re: AD mods

Yahwe should have been appointed.
Or Barrow! (most awesome non-ascendancy player)
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 00:59   #8
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Re: AD mods

Yahwe hates life (including Planetarion) and Barrow is largely inactive and probably not at all interested. I honestly can't think of anyone better than mz but that doesn't make having 2 of 2 AD mods from Ascendancy any less unfortunate.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 01:05   #9
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Re: AD mods

look at how largely active i am!

but, probably not.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 01:07   #10
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Re: AD mods

mz is about the only one I would have suggested for the job.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 03:03   #11
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Re: AD mods

I normally don't post much on these forums as i have a tendecy of making a tard of myself while trying to hold my own during an discussion.
In the past 20 rounds ive always been reading the forums, even when i wasn't playing(i check pa forums every day) and i do agree that alot of the Asc posters on these forums are a bit to "dominating" at times, making it hard for alot of people to actually try to express their own opinions.
Its my opinion that Mz is one of the few who can be trusted with such a position. And even if in the near future he shows he can't handle it for some reason, they can always remove his powers again now can't they ?

Normally i would jump on the anti Asc bandwagon but i find it a bit unneccesary at this time.

So let Mz do his thing
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 04:17   #12
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
Or Barrow! (most awesome non-ascendancy player)
YOURE OFF MY E-CHRISTMAS CARD LIST

grats to mz, dont be a tarderator \o/

PS. yes, a non-asc mod would be nice but meh...if mz is the best chap for the job by a considerable margin then so be it. no need for positive discrimation and all that jazz!
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 04:21   #13
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Re: AD mods

This is R v Bow Street Metropolitan Stipendiary Magistrate Ex p. Pinochet Ugarte (No. 2) [2000] 1 AC 119 all over again Lokken
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 08:07   #14
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Re: AD mods

mz is cool and he will do a great job!
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 08:31   #15
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Re: AD mods

mz is cool and will most likely do a good job as mod, however it does make this forum even more an asc-forum...

If I had to chose between mz & CBA on the other hand, I'd pick mz any day of the week ;-)




ps: whatever happened to my application as mod 3 rounds ago? xD
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 08:51   #16
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Re: AD mods

I personally have never found any of the mods to work in a bias way, and on that basis i know they wouldn't appoint somebody who would go against the workings and the role that a mod should hold within the community.

If lokken and JBG tell me that mz is the best man for the job, then he is the best man for the job in my eyes.

i can, however, see the grievences raised and see why people could accuse it of being a biased appointment.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 09:26   #17
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Re: AD mods

AD Mods? should have called this thread "lets all say how great mz is"
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:03   #18
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Re: AD mods

From what i have viewed on the forums this round Mz alongside lokken looks to always present an unbiased, well thought out and educated opinion on matters. They both show a great amount of humility when talking about their alliance and i have no problem with the appointment whatsoever.

I do however see other peoples concerns and there are a LOT of good quality posters on AD, how many of these would have been interested i wonder? Mind you i have seen some absolutely shocking bias from both sides this past round.

As for you CBA, i have to admit i used to cringe everytime i read one of your posts but have been totally taken aback with your improvement this last round in your posting skills. With not playing i get a lot of my information as to whats going on from you (be it right or wrong) and for this i thank you. Keep the good standard of posting up for a few rounds and you may make yourself a good case for being a mod however it's maybe a little too soon for you.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:07   #19
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
AD Mods? should have called this thread "lets all say how great mz is"
Personally, I don't think this can ever be said enough.

Thanks for the vote of confidence people.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:10   #20
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Personally, I don't think this can ever be said enough.

Thanks for the vote of confidence people.
lol though all things said you do seem to have a presence on the forums that a lot of people look to, you know your stuff and though i think you'll always be biased to your ally, you're professional enough not to let it affect your posts.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:21   #21
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Re: AD mods

To clear a few things up. When we have appointed new mods quality of posting, responsibility and objectivity are the key criteria for taking them on. I am well of the bias issue, but there is simply no one else to meet the incredibly high standard we set for mods here. I have consulted with former mods and pa team. Appointing a mod is not a decision I make lightly, because if a mod doesnt make the grade, im responsible.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:24   #22
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Re: AD mods

No matter how stupid CBA is, he raises a interesting question that I have to agree with. I seriously think that it is EXTREMLY unfortunate that we have gotten a new moderator from the OMFGLOOKATMEIMASC-club. I think in all honesty JBG that you could have looked one more time. I certainly wouldnt be qualified, but there are a few others that would, and that also resides outside the Ascendancy lair.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:25   #23
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
To clear a few things up. When we have appointed new mods quality of posting, responsibility and objectivity are the key criteria for taking them on. I am well of the bias issue, but there is simply no one else to meet the incredibly high standard we set for mods here. I have consulted with former mods and pa team. Appointing a mod is not a decision I make lightly, because if a mod doesnt make the grade, im responsible.

Can you say a bit about how you want to raise the standards on the message board, and also make it a bit more friendly for non asc posters?
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:31   #24
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
Can you say a bit about how you want to raise the standards on the message board, and also make it a bit more friendly for non asc posters?
By sending everyone like you a textbook on "how to argue your position".
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:32   #25
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Re: AD mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
By sending everyone like you a textbook on "how to argue your position".
Just keep proving my point dear sir!
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:37   #26
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Re: AD mods

Unless you get moderators who don't play they will always be accused of being biased, it's wrong to do so, anyone with half a brain and a modicum of common sense can put their loyalty ties to one side when trying to be subjective.

At Kargool, in your post you called CBA stupid, used an OMG childish expression to get your argument across and showed obvious bias against asc in the post unless i read it wrong and then asked how standards on the message boards will be improved?

I assume you were being purposely hypocritical?
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:40   #27
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Re: AD mods

It's up to the moderators to moderate and remove crap and ban when people step out of line regarding the forum rules.

It's up to YOU and I and the rest of the users to improve the posting standards.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:41   #28
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Re: AD mods

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Originally Posted by ATRO View Post
Unless you get moderators who don't play they will always be accused of being biased, it's wrong to do so, anyone with half a brain and a modicum of common sense can put their loyalty ties to one side when trying to be subjective.

At Kargool, in your post you called CBA stupid, used an OMG childish expression to get your argument across and showed obvious bias against asc in the post unless i read it wrong and then asked how standards on the message boards will be improved?

I assume you were being purposely hypocritical?
I think that was merely due to me being hungover and grumpy, but point taken. Raising standards should go for everyone. However, the scores of ascendancy people that clog up the forums to debate is squeezing others out and that is unfortunate.

However, arguing your case is not normally a problem for anyone. It is having to argue with 20 at the same time that is a problem. Smaller alliances have problems being heard in the debate when they get shot down by so many at the same time.

I know that Lok is aware of this, and I've seen some info about this before, but would just want to know if he could try to make the Ascendancy crew understand that it's not nice to shout down anyone just because they got a different opinion than you.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:46   #29
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Re: AD mods

I take your point too, asc does have the majority of posters at the moment and they are probably the most eloquent which makes arguing the point against them difficult i imagine. (asc does have some poor posters too i must add)

People just need to think out their responses a bit and offer a good solid argument against and if it gets overpowered by the weight of asc posters we have to hope that Mz and lokken will step in and sort it. I have witnessed lokken do this in the past.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:50   #30
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Re: AD mods

Yeah, the mods so far have been very good, apart from a certain 1000 words epic poster that had a tendency to be legendarily insulted if you had another opinion than him. And I'm in no way saying that Ascendancy has bad posters. It is just that sometimes you should think about whom you are flaming down, and if there is someone from your own ally that already have done it, why is it important that you do it as well.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 10:58   #31
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Re: AD mods

Yes, totally agree, which is why i support the appointment of Mz, he strikes me as an intelligent poster and not one to flame, always offering an opinion but in a sensible way.

Maybe all us posters on AD are just opinionated sods. I have never been nor doubt i will ever be an asc player but do admit i tend to agree with a lot of what they say. I will also try to be more subjective going forward and if something has been pointed out i will not reitterate unless i have something else to add.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 11:04   #32
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Re: AD mods

Also, who really cares, it's only an internet forum
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 11:17   #33
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Re: AD mods

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Also, who really cares, it's only an internet forum
I think it's a tad bit more complicated than that, but thank you for participating!
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 11:18   #34
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Re: AD mods

I think other alliances should encourage their members to post more often, this one sided debat issue is hardly asc's fault.
I remember times when I played for certain alliances that the hc's told me not to post on AD or comment on something involving the alliance I'm in.
That + alot of players simply not wanting to get involved in the forums for one reason or the other (most heard reason: AD is a shithole) is the reason AD is so one-sided.

Alliance HC's: don't ban your members from posting
Players: don't be ashamed to post on AD, if at first you run into some flaming etc etc, don't give up but keep on posting.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 11:22   #35
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Re: AD mods

CBA: I think people need another 2-5 rounds to trust you and be a mod. You just started to behave sensibly, which is good. Carry on I would say.

I think that the appointment of Mz as moderator is a good one, not minding the fact he's Asc and somewhat elitist at times. However, that is not even that relevant.
I dare to say he will go the extra mile now in restraining himself from too coloured modding, you cannot remove all colour of course, and that he has an excellent example in Lokken, who I appreciate for his objective views and sound argumented posts.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 13:12   #36
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Re: AD mods

I have never found AD to be an overly hostile or too pro asc place.
Clearly that might be because I dont give a flying **** if someone insult me, or try to make me stop posting by posting 10 posts against every one I do!
I dont see mz as a typical mod, but lets see. I like mz, somewhat, so I m sure u will do a good job!
Could you tell us who u had in mind before deciding to go for mz lokken?
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 13:29   #37
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Re: AD mods

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
I like the way Lok just "decided" to select a new mod and such without consulting the actual 'community'.
You're surprised?
Ultimately the moderators,asc or not are accountable to pateam ( even though at times it seems like its the other way around )
Its not the community they need to ask for permission.

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
Also the fact we have another Ascendancy moderator after the recent favourism that has been debated recently.
The question then becomes - were they appointed because they were asc or because everyone else wasnt good enough for the job.
I suspect its both.

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I think its unfair to have another mod from a particular alliance, not because I'm personally accusing mz or lok to be biased with their judgements but sometimes the mind can perform wonderful activities which could result in an unaware moment of confusion in the brain causing judgements on moderator activities to be blurred and misguided which can result in the people not in Ascendancy posting on these boards, be disadvantaged by unfair modding.
This is a valid concern - I'm sure lokken or another mod will post something to alleviate it if they haven't already. Again though - they arent accountable to the community.

Quote:
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I'd strongly recommend a none Ascendancy player be made a mod to enable this forum to actually expand and not keep decreasing posting members which seems to be happening every round. This is the reason I have put my name forward, I'm well aware there could be better candidates.
Tbh, the forums in their current form are dying along with the game. There are better uses of peoples time than arguing semantics with people who behave and argue in a pack, backed up from on high.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 13:50   #38
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Re: AD mods

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Tbh, the forums in their current form are dying along with the game. There are better uses of peoples time than arguing semantics with people who behave and argue in a pack, backed up from on high.
The forums dying??? I strongly urge you re-think your theory of the forum's dying. How can that even be suggested? Everyone who plays the game (pretty much) read forums. People lack the willingness to post admittidly. However the forums help keep the game alive and ofcourse vice versa. Having a non Ascendancy mod would perhaps increase the willingness of other non Ascendancy posters to post on the forums. But PA is hardly dying and the forums under the planetarion section are hardly dying.. They may not be growing much but each round it says, we stay, the community comes on the forums, debates start, convosations are made, friendships are created. A positive look on pa and the forums would not go amiss.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 13:56   #39
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Re: AD mods

I liked the old CBA which never made any sense. I think someone has abducted CBA and are now using his forum account to make posts with some meaning and content.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:07   #40
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Re: AD mods

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The forums dying??? I strongly urge you re-think your theory of the forum's dying. How can that even be suggested? Everyone who plays the game (pretty much) read forums. People lack the willingness to post admittidly.
A forum requires active posting to remain alive - people reading posts isnt going to cut it unfortunately. Active posters, active threads and active topics are its lifeblood. When people arent posting for whatever reason - its dying/dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA View Post
However the forums help keep the game alive and ofcourse vice versa.
IRC activity keeps the game alive more than the forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA View Post
Having a non Ascendancy mod would perhaps increase the willingness of other non Ascendancy posters to post on the forums.
I disagree, A non-asc mod might be beneficial in smiting down asc posters who cross a line more than one who considers them kin - but they still have to answer to an asc supermod/forum manager so their hands will be tied in terms of real change targetted against a particular group.
Besides, the problem isnt the mods - its the users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA View Post
A positive look on pa and the forums would not go amiss.
Its tricky to remain positive when youve been around for so long and see just how badly things have progressed. This last farce of a round certainly hasnt helped in that regard.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:21   #41
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Re: AD mods

In all seriousness, I would like modding to be more public than it is now. I for one would never notice if my posts get deleted, let alone posts of others, simply because I do not usually read back old posts. This should both increase people's awareness of what is ok and what isn't and will alleviate much of the concerns about bias in the community. I have no idea how to though.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:21   #42
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Re: AD mods

Moderating AD is a thankless and shitty job, be glad anyone does it.

If you want someone from outside Ascendancy to do it, suggest them to Lokken in private.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:23   #43
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Re: AD mods

mz will do a good job with AD.

too bad cochese wont do it :/

and cba as mod is similar to having hitler run a retirement home for jewish people.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:27   #44
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Re: AD mods

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
In all seriousness, I would like modding to be more public than it is now. I for one would never notice if my posts get deleted, let alone posts of others, simply because I do not usually read back old posts. This should both increase people's awareness of what is ok and what isn't and will alleviate much of the concerns about bias in the community. I have no idea how to though.
You could copy the text into a locked thread if you wanted to, but thats not a very elegant solution for it :S
Cant remember if there's a vbulletin option to mirror deleted posts to a specified place
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:30   #45
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Re: AD mods

Elegance aside, I'm not sure if moving offending posts to a section where everyone can read them is a good idea. They're being deleted for a reason, after all.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:34   #46
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Re: AD mods

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This is a valid concern - I'm sure lokken or another mod will post something to alleviate it if they haven't already. Again though - they arent accountable to the community.
Who are they accountable to then?
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 14:39   #47
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Re: AD mods

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Who are they accountable to then?
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Ultimately the moderators,asc or not are accountable to pateam
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 15:25   #48
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Re: AD mods

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No matter how stupid CBA is, he raises a interesting question that I have to agree with. I seriously think that it is EXTREMLY unfortunate that we have gotten a new moderator from the OMFGLOOKATMEIMASC-club. I think in all honesty JBG that you could have looked one more time. I certainly wouldnt be qualified, but there are a few others that would, and that also resides outside the Ascendancy lair.
Name them. And ensure they meet both of my criteria. Sure people like barrow and gate are awesome but in all honesty they're not sufficiently involved in the forums on an ongoing basis for me to believe they'd remain an active moderator in the long-term. Also part of the reason I thought mz was a good idea is that I've seen him actively disagreeing with the position being put forward by the majority of ascendancy posters at any given time.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 17:40   #49
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Re: AD mods

For all the talk of implied bias, every post lokken seems to make lately appears to be a "please, Ascendancy, shut the hell up and let the other guys speak"-post. If I wasn't regularly reminded by other people's whinging about bias that he's actually Asc himself, I'd already assume that there was at least one active non-Asc mod. It's a sad state that there genuinely are no posters of the required activity and calibre from other alliances, but that's more or less how it is. If anyone's genuinely feeling oppressed, try giving your posts some more thought and clarity - you'll find they get shouted down a lot less that way.
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Unread 9 Apr 2009, 19:28   #50
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Re: AD mods

Sorry i haven't been able to reply to a lot of posts today, i've been stuck on trains all day:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
Can you say a bit about how you want to raise the standards on the message board, and also make it a bit more friendly for non asc posters?
Good question. We're rewriting the rules and giving some guidelines on how to post. mz will have full input on this. At the moment there are too many mod gripes, and we need to give help to our users. So i will put in some time to making this happen.

I'm also going to use more "life's unfair deal with it" when things get out of hand, as it was clearly effective for the time it was used this round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I know that Lok is aware of this, and I've seen some info about this before, but would just want to know if he could try to make the Ascendancy crew understand that it's not nice to shout down anyone just because they got a different opinion than you.
There is a whole blog on this on the ascendancy website. I have made it clear that Asc need to limit their posting on the forum. I will use the ban if it gets out of hand but that would be very much a last resort drastic measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
I think other alliances should encourage their members to post more often, this one sided debat issue is hardly asc's fault.
I remember times when I played for certain alliances that the hc's told me not to post on AD or comment on something involving the alliance I'm in.
That + alot of players simply not wanting to get involved in the forums for one reason or the other (most heard reason: AD is a shithole) is the reason AD is so one-sided.

Alliance HC's: don't ban your members from posting
Players: don't be ashamed to post on AD, if at first you run into some flaming etc etc, don't give up but keep on posting.
This is a great ****ing point. If you've got good posters let them post on AD. If people are an embarrassment, you can always ask people not to post. I'd love to have heard more from CT and Omen last round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Could you tell us who u had in mind before deciding to go for mz lokken?
Sure. Post activity was up this round and while I can moderate, there's not enough of me to go around. So I decided to appoint someone else. I thought of people who posted actively who might be good enough (based on what I've said) and really only mz came to mind. So now we've got more coverage. On top of that, he uses the report post function properly, which obviously you can't see, but I can, and his judgment tells me he can moderate.

Plus, this will free me up to do more about the changes I've highlighted above. On top of that, one day I won't want to moderate AD anymore (right now I definitely do) and I need someone capable of not just moderating but taking over the forum. mz has that in depth understanding that we need and will keep the continuity that we've maintained from ComradeRob, Cochese, jesterina and JBG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
You're surprised? Ultimately the moderators,asc or not are accountable to pateam ( even though at times it seems like its the other way around ) Its not the community they need to ask for permission.
We're accountable to PA team. We ask the community about what approach they want to take from time to time. We respond to your feedback. I go way beyond a lot of moderators have done to explain what I do and I'm not expending any more time than I already do. As for PA team, all we do is point out that we're the experts and we have some highly capable moderators on the other forums. If they wanted to get rid of mods they could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
The question then becomes - were they appointed because they were asc or because everyone else wasnt good enough for the job. I suspect its both.
Purely a quality decision. It was more think of mz, then realise the problem that he would be ascendancy and that it would cause a shitstorm. I actually asked if other mods would be appropriate, but PA team thought mz would be an excellent addition, so mz is moderator. Given that a lot of people are going "mz is an excellent addition but" I think that's every justification.

Quote:
Tbh, the forums in their current form are dying along with the game. There are better uses of peoples time than arguing semantics with people who behave and argue in a pack, backed up from on high.
All I can say is that I appointed a moderator because my workload went up, not down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Moderating AD is a thankless and shitty job, be glad anyone does it.

If you want someone from outside Ascendancy to do it, suggest them to Lokken in private.
But this thread is the best class on dealing with bias accusations that i could have hoped for, and I can't thank the users of AD enough. But yes, the fact I had to sell this as "how would you like a free pa account every round?" before actually asking mz to be mod illustrates your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Elegance aside, I'm not sure if moving offending posts to a section where everyone can read them is a good idea. They're being deleted for a reason, after all.
I did this in a limited way when we had life's unfair deal with it by moving posts to a locked thread. As for more open moderating, I don't know how we can do that all the time as we'd never have any time to do other stuff to be honest.

I hope that keeps everyone happy. I understood there was bound to be some discussions what with mz being Asc.
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Last edited by lokken; 9 Apr 2009 at 19:33.
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